Grenfell Tower

[Barrett487]

I've held off posting on this thread because all that needs to be said has been said. However I feel I need to add my response to this awful event. I can't imagine the terror these poor people experienced, innocently sleeping in their beds.

Fire must be the most horrific way to go. Those who got out will no doubt be traumatised and I feel warmth to those who have jumped in and got involved with the aftermath.

My thoughts and wishes go out to all. I hope Fulham's shout out for support helps to ease the pain of those affected.

[BlackShorts]

Since I currently live in the states its hard for me to donate anything, but if anyone hears or sees a link where we can make a financial donatation please post it. I've been checking facebook and twitter but have yet to see anything.

As a father to two little kids, it breaks my heart to hear people having to throw their babies out of the window. Absolutely horrific.

https://thekandcfoundation.com/donate/

[epsomraver]

A good old fashioned sprinkler system could have saved those poor people's lives

It is far too early to start speculating on why and what ever, what is needed is help and support for the victims and their families  however

How would a sprinkler system work on stopping the spread of flames up the outside?Sprinkler systems are designed to reduce the effects, they do not put fires out, forget what you see on films, They are not used in domestic situations for good reason,  I have had first hand experience of a building and vehicles going up with a modern sprinkler system in place

[Barrett487]

A good old fashioned sprinkler system could have saved those poor people's lives

It is far too early to start speculating on why and what ever, what is needed is help and support for the victims and their families  however

How would a sprinkler system work on stopping the spread of flames up the outside?Sprinkler systems are designed to reduce the effects, they do not put fires out, forget what you see on films, They are not used in domestic situations for good reason,  I have had first hand experience of a building and vehicles going up with a modern sprinkler system in place

:plus one:

Let the guys sorting it sort it. We'll all know more soon.

[dannyboi-ffc]

I have my opinions of this. Angry & distraught for all those poor people, how this could happen in 2017. But it's for others to decide what and who was to blame. I'm just so sorry for all those families who have lost everything, especially those that have lost loved ones.

RIP to all those who didn't survive.

[Burt]

Just for your info, whatever faults the Evening Standard has, as a campaigning paper it is up there with the best, and it's Dispossessed Fund, managed by the London Community Foundation, has backed many great causes over the years.

They are currently running a JustGiving page for those people who have been directly impacted by this terrible tragedy, so if anyone would like to donate something then click on the link below.
https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/londoncommunity/grenfell

[Bazz]

It is such a devastating news story.

I will say right now anyone posting what is considered to be as tasteless remark will be issued with a warning, so please show respect unlike some comments on the Manchester and London threads.

Thanks guys.

Great effort by the club as well.
[/quote

I ve not been on here since the Reading defeat but I must say that anyone who made a tasteless remark about the Manchester Arena bombing or the London Bridge murders should be banned for life from this forum. Both incidents Are near to me as I grew up near Victoria station in Manchester and I used to drink near Borough Majrket two or three times I a week before I retired.

[RaySmith]

I think it's difficult to  make comments about such terrible events without making a comment about possible  causes, though we don't really know the actual causes  of course, but there has been a lot of speculation.

But Danny is right to say that this sort of thing shouldn't happen in This country in 2017.

This is an  awful occurrence though, almost beyond belief, and all sympathy to those who have lost their homes and possessions, and especially to those who have lost  family members and friends.

[Funky Fulham Dave]

Just for your info, whatever faults the Evening Standard has, as a campaigning paper it is up there with the best, and it's Dispossessed Fund, managed by the London Community Foundation, has backed many great causes over the years.

They are currently running a JustGiving page for those people who have been directly impacted by this terrible tragedy, so if anyone would like to donate something then click on the link below.
https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/londoncommunity/grenfell

I am not having this.

The ES, led by an Etonian have not and do not represent Londoners, except the middle-class and rich and no amount of handwringing by ES is going to change anyone's viewpoint.

And before the thought police take out their big blue pencil and put a line through this posting just let me say that I live just down the road from Latimer Road, which of course doesn't give me any more of an understanding than those watching from afar.

On that night it happened there was a helicopter flying overhead throughout the night. I couldn't sleep and just thought it was another terrorist/security operation, of which there have been a quite a few in this part of London.

Today I went down to Portobello market and while there had a look around at the neighbouring streets; All Saints Road, Basing Street (where the famous recording studio was) and the surrounding area and guess what? It's all become gentrified. The rich taking advantage while the poor pick up the tab.

I walked back home and people are shocked and angry but not surprised by the inaction from those who are supposed to keep us safe.

London is divided into two distinct inhabitants, the rich and the poor and the poorer ones are demonised relentlessly by the media which of course ES play a effective tool in demonising the poor.

And as far as the ES are concerned they are representative of no one but the privileged few.

[ffcthereligion]

As I suspect many people on the forum do I live and have lived near the area all my life and this has really got to me. I take the Hammersmith and City line home from work and today felt compelled to get off to observe and pay my respects. I am a grown man now, but I'm not afraid to say I cried my eyes out when there.

This is a direct consequence of Tory cuts to council and local authority funding who therefore felt compelled to opt for cheap and cheerful materials. I have lived in the area for 23 years and have seen the Tories in Hammersmith and Fulham sell all as much land as they can as quick as they can in an ideological attempt to gentrify the area.

George Osbourne can start whatever fund he wants, he signed off on these cuts, and he has blood on his hands.

This is a seismic moment in London I think and there will be 100 plus dead. A national disgrace.

[love4ffc]

Please DO NOT turn this tragedy into a political debate.  Let's what and see what the investigation reveals before pointing fingers. 

[gang]

Please DO NOT turn this tragedy into a political debate.  Let's what and see what the investigation reveals before pointing fingers. 

Agree.

[Funky Fulham Dave]

Had Mr Burt, a moderator no less, not given succour to the "campaigning ES" – I'm wetting myself at the thought – you would not have heard a word out of me.

And as far as another moderator's plea of not turning this into a political debate, well I'm sorry to inform you that your sensibilities might not like the ugly truth but this is political however much you wish to avert your eyes to it.

If you don't want political debate on this site don't incite it.

Tap in and tune out, at a very safe distance you understand, giving maximum sympathy while ignoring the underlying problems. The revolution will not be televised.

[Holders]

There are so many parties involved - the local council, the housing association, risk assessor, cladding contractor, interior contractor, building regs etc etc that anyone can speculate at this stage but no-one can know who or what was responsible/to blame. That will come out but to make it party political (when the lifetimes of these buildings span governments since the 60s) does not help those who were so tragically affected. The mod was quite right to make the comment that he did.

[Burt]

Had Mr Burt, a moderator no less, not given succour to the "campaigning ES" – I'm wetting myself at the thought – you would not have heard a word out of me.

And as far as another moderator's plea of not turning this into a political debate, well I'm sorry to inform you that your sensibilities might not like the ugly truth but this is political however much you wish to avert your eyes to it.

If you don't want political debate on this site don't incite it.

Tap in and tune out, at a very safe distance you understand, giving maximum sympathy while ignoring the underlying problems. The revolution will not be televised.

My main intent was to provide a link for people to donate, should they wish to do so.

[toshes mate]

Had Mr Burt, a moderator no less, not given succour to the "campaigning ES" – I'm wetting myself at the thought – you would not have heard a word out of me.

And as far as another moderator's plea of not turning this into a political debate, well I'm sorry to inform you that your sensibilities might not like the ugly truth but this is political however much you wish to avert your eyes to it.

If you don't want political debate on this site don't incite it.

Tap in and tune out, at a very safe distance you understand, giving maximum sympathy while ignoring the underlying problems. The revolution will not be televised.

Absolutely agree 100% with you , Funky Fulham Dave.  The whole thing is 'political' from the very unnecessary loss of innocent lives through to how it could possibly happen in the Twenty First Century in a place as wealthy as Kensington & Chelsea and a nation as wealthy as the UK.  Please do not lock out this thread since it is not only about the sorrow for those who perished, their loved ones and others, but also about the reasonable anger of anyone concerned for their own safety in their own home.   

Everything must be done to prevent it ever happening again and that should encompass allowing people to talk about it.  Censorship never solved anything.

[Lighthouse]

THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL DEBATE. I thread to offer sympathy and a thread to offer places to donate. If you wish to make a political point or generally join the division and hate that always loves sliding their hand into catastrophe. Then Twitter and Facebook and the media sites that are helping to split and divide are the places to be. Not here.

This is a Fulham forum and as such we should be looking at it from that Point of View and the help clubs and others have tried to do.

[hovewhite]

There is a collective pool of goverment down to council leaders who have ignored people in council properties the should be accountable.
More importantly people have lost family ,friends,nieghbours and it breaks my heart that people who have lost there lives and the people that survived will have to live with this tragerdy.
They need to see a response very soon the survivors who have to live with this and lost everything.

[toshes mate]

Some people have suggested the Grenfell Tower disaster "should not be politicised". That's a nonsensical statement. The provision of social housing is political, as was the decision to remove its management from local authorities whenever possible. But I do think there is merit in considering whether this highly emotional situation should be further emotionalised. Politics, after all, is about managing or increasing power. Emotions are about expressing how you feel. Politicians are falling over themselves to tell survivors they understand their anger. What they need to understand is their arguments. They need to understand exactly why they let people down as badly as it was possible to let them down.

This is an extract from a piece by Deborah Orr in today's Guardian which sums up how I feel about this terrible event and its recent aftermath.  Decisions makers are paid large salaries to make decisions and, when they get a decision disastrously wrong, they should accept responsibility for it.   When they do so people's anger will, save for a few, become more responsive to suggestions for changes for the better now and in the future, but if they fail to accept responsibility then another disaster will happen and another thread will open to express remorse and sorrow for the dead, the injured, and those who lose everything they have.

[toshes mate]

There is a collective pool of goverment down to council leaders who have ignored people in council properties the should be accountable.
More importantly people have lost family ,friends,nieghbours and it breaks my heart that people who have lost there lives and the people that survived will have to live with this tragerdy.
They need to see a response very soon the survivors who have to live with this and lost everything.

+1