Tony Khan holds himself accountable for unsuccessful summer

[hovewhite]

I am glad that Tony Khan has at last holds himself responsible for the carnage he has enveloped Fulham FC with due to his incompetence. I am pleased he has found inner sanctuary, and I am looking forward to reading about his impending resignation to allow Fulham to bring in a genuine qualified professional Football person, to allow him to return to the land of the Cuckoo.

now that would be a major step forward woolly.
If he doesn't then shad needs to move him aside!

[toshes mate]

And so Khan Jnr hides behind a FST question to convince himself that he engineered the two seasons of relative success in the Championship and that his critical summer signings were a) injured, b) for the future (bear in mind Seri is a 27y.o.), and in a team hopelessly mismanaged by the feckless combination of Jokanovic, Ranieri, and Parker all of whom were appointed by said Khan Jnr.

No mention that Fredericks was lost largely via a mistake made in his contract and never adequately replaced, Targett was available to sign but lavish spending elsewhere prevented his return, and Mitrovic's loan and signing was fortuitous after several windows of not securing a decent striker et cetera ...

The guy needs to find some humility deep down in that ill functioning personality of his, and admit that it is he that just isn't good enough for the job.

... but, instead, he'll just carry on digging, deep down in that hole he is standing in ...   

[hovewhite]

And so Khan Jnr hides behind a FST question to convince himself that he engineered the two seasons of relative success in the Championship and that his critical summer signings were a) injured, b) for the future (bear in mind Seri is a 27y.o.), and in a team hopelessly mismanaged by the feckless combination of Jokanovic, Ranieri, and Parker all of whom were appointed by said Khan Jnr.

No mention that Fredericks was lost largely via a mistake made in his contract and never adequately replaced, Targett was available to sign but lavish spending elsewhere prevented his return, and Mitrovic's loan and signing was fortuitous after several windows of not securing a decent striker et cetera ...

The guy needs to find some humility deep down in that ill functioning personality of his, and admit that it is he that just isn't good enough for the job.

... but, instead, he'll just carry on digging, deep down in that hole he is standing in ...   

the trouble is the further he digs himself deeper the club sinks with him!

[bog]

If TK had any decency and was genuinely sincere, and had the best interest of Fulham FC at heart.
He would have resigned, but he has no shame, and his father conveniently overlooks the wreckage his son has orchestrated.

+1 100%

[The Old Count]

Amongst the hysterical nonsense spouted by some on this thread my favourite has be the comment saying Joka was a poor appointment, feckless and mismanaged the team and that Parker is the same.   It's so obvious as to why this is nonsense I won't even go into it.

[DevonFFC]

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

[toshes mate]

Amongst the hysterical nonsense spouted by some on this thread my favourite has be the comment saying Joka was a poor appointment, feckless and mismanaged the team and that Parker is the same.   It's so obvious as to why this is nonsense I won't even go into it.

As you are obviously equipped to comprehend English, if not its finer points and subtleties, the appointments and sackings of head coaches or managers are attempts by owners to get results, would you agree? 

Out of all the appointments made by the Khans is is noteworthy that only Jokanovic, out of all their attempts to recruit able operators, achieved a points per game record of more than that necessary to prevent relegation issues being a feature of their reign (i.e. better than one point per game). 

The subtlety in that simple fact is that in eight attempts to recruit managers (caretakers included) only one appointment has worked.  If that failure to recruit success at that level is extrapolated to playing staff then it may suggest where the true failures of the Khan era has been.  Perhaps the madness of FFC is in having far too many supporters who seem too frightened to turn on their wealthy but inept owners as the source of the problems we have encountered throughout their reign.

[Milo]

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

[Milo]

And so Khan Jnr hides behind a FST question to convince himself that he engineered the two seasons of relative success in the Championship and that his critical summer signings were a) injured, b) for the future (bear in mind Seri is a 27y.o.), and in a team hopelessly mismanaged by the feckless combination of Jokanovic, Ranieri, and Parker all of whom were appointed by said Khan Jnr.

No mention that Fredericks was lost largely via a mistake made in his contract and never adequately replaced, Targett was available to sign but lavish spending elsewhere prevented his return, and Mitrovic's loan and signing was fortuitous after several windows of not securing a decent striker et cetera ...

The guy needs to find some humility deep down in that ill functioning personality of his, and admit that it is he that just isn't good enough for the job.

... but, instead, he'll just carry on digging, deep down in that hole he is standing in ...   

Agree! Except for the Joka part.

[Sting of the North]

And so Khan Jnr hides behind a FST question to convince himself that he engineered the two seasons of relative success in the Championship and that his critical summer signings were a) injured, b) for the future (bear in mind Seri is a 27y.o.), and in a team hopelessly mismanaged by the feckless combination of Jokanovic, Ranieri, and Parker all of whom were appointed by said Khan Jnr.

No mention that Fredericks was lost largely via a mistake made in his contract and never adequately replaced, Targett was available to sign but lavish spending elsewhere prevented his return, and Mitrovic's loan and signing was fortuitous after several windows of not securing a decent striker et cetera ...

The guy needs to find some humility deep down in that ill functioning personality of his, and admit that it is he that just isn't good enough for the job.

... but, instead, he'll just carry on digging, deep down in that hole he is standing in ...   

Agree! Except for the Joka part.

I believe that Joka should definitely have his share of the blame this season. There are mitigating circumstances to his poor results, but regardless he lost his plot after a few games in my opinion, and never really recovered (although the Liverpool game might have indicated that he was on to something). He helped digging the hole he found himself in, and unfortunately the Khan's didn't trust him to find his way out.

For what it's worth, I believe that it was wrong to sack Joka, and I think that we would still be in with a chance had we kept him. That doesn't mean that he is blameless (neither is the owner, his son, the scouts, Ali Mac, the coaches and the players).

[filham]

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

I am repeating myself, but as yet no one has contradicted me, with the two ticked box system we operate is it not correct that Jocanovic must have been 50% responsible for all of those signings last summer.

[Sting of the North]

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

I am repeating myself, but as yet no one has contradicted me, with the two ticked box system we operate is it not correct that Jocanovic must have been 50% responsible for all of those signings last summer.

As far as I know you are definitely not correct. I have never seen stated that Joka had to tick one of the boxes. To my understanding it is stats and traditional scouting. The scouts don't report to the manager but to the head of transfers which is Khan Jr. Joka surely had some input at some level but there is nothing to suggest as far as I know that his input was more than marginal at best.

I am happy to be proven wrong, but I think that your understanding that one of the boxes belonged to Joka is completely incorrect and I have never heard of it anywhere before.

[filham]

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Mitrovic?

Hmm perhaps, but I think Statto has correctly attributed Mitrovic to Jokanovic. Not a Khan stats signing in the slightest.

I am repeating myself, but as yet no one has contradicted me, with the two ticked box system we operate is it not correct that Jocanovic must have been 50% responsible for all of those signings last summer.

As far as I know you are definitely not correct. I have never seen stated that Joka had to tick one of the boxes. To my understanding it is stats and traditional scouting. The scouts don't report to the manager but to the head of transfers which is Khan Jr. Joka surely had some input at some level but there is nothing to suggest as far as I know that his input was more than marginal at best.

I am happy to be proven wrong, but I think that your understanding that one of the boxes belonged to Joka is completely incorrect and I have never heard of it anywhere before.

So then who actually ticks the two boxes, it seems crazy to me that one of them is not the manager.
Of course the system has a great weaknes if you remember the old saying that if you split responsibility between two people each will take 2%.

[toshes mate]

The two box ticking exercise is mythological to the extent of being tokenism as in covering the backs of those involved.  Who knows whether there have been pieces of paper with ticks in two boxes, and who actually made the ticks, and whether or not they were signed?  Given that so many signings were made in a panic during the last hours of windows then who is to say if those ticks appeared before or after a deal was done.

The bottom line is that when a transfer or loan fails the system behind it fails at the same time and whether or not a ticked box or two was behind that failure is semantic to say the least.

Sensibility says you strive toward the development of a system that works and judge your success by reducing failures.  That simply has not happened.

[S.F.Sorrow]

Hmm ok so responsibility for this season admitted. However, he claims previous 2 seasons his stats were a success.

Who did he bring in stats wise over the last two seasons on permanent signings?

Odoi has certainly been a good stats signing.
Kamara was, in my view, a good signing. However the end result is that his temperament has pushed him out on loan. So.. does that go down as minus points for a stats based model?
Kebano a luke warm signing on reflection.
Rui Fonte disastrous.
Others?

Other permanent transfers last season: Djalo, Cisse, Mollo, Christie. The rest were loans.

Our success last season was based on Mitro (thanks to Jokanovic), other loans from higher division clubs and players signed before TK was appointed DoF (plus a number of other titles). The players TK actually signed last season were short term solutions and failures. Even some of the loans were disasters, like Soares. An injured player on loan???

Blaming Mawsons injury must be the worst excuse ever. He was after all injured when TK signed him. And if injury to ONE CB is enough to ruin the season then TK has clearly failed to provide a decent squad. Everyone has known for several years now that we need CBs and more squad depth.

We can't expect to go through an entire season in the Championship again with hardly any injuries. We were almost unbelivably lucky with injuries last season. With the exception of Cairney and Ayite we had more or less a full squad available for the entire season. Cardiff had almost half their squad injured at one point and they still managed to finish above us. Our squad was ridiculously thin last season but we somehow got away with it.

[Statto]

I believe that Joka should definitely have his share of the blame this season. There are mitigating circumstances to his poor results, but regardless he lost his plot after a few games in my opinion, and never really recovered (although the Liverpool game might have indicated that he was on to something). He helped digging the hole he found himself in, and unfortunately the Khan's didn't trust him to find his way out.

For what it's worth, I believe that it was wrong to sack Joka, and I think that we would still be in with a chance had we kept him. That doesn't mean that he is blameless (neither is the owner, his son, the scouts, Ali Mac, the coaches and the players).

Agree. IMO his major error was insisting on playing Ream and Odoi at CB throughout that four-game spell when we conceded 15 goals, after the draw against Watford.

FWIW if we were arbitrarily apportioning blame I'd have JK 10%, Ranieri 20%, Mackintosh 30% and TK 40%. 

[The Rational Fan]

For all you guy criticising the Stats approach to squad selection may I point out that our current England Manager Gareth Southgate used the "Computer Says Yes" appraoch to team selection. Or at least, The Computer would almost select the exactly same team.

Out of the 19 Outfield players selected for the England Squad: i) 15 are in the Top 30 Stats English Player this season, ii) 3 have been in the Top 30 last season and have represented England at World Cup and iii) lastly Callum Hudson-Odoi is a highly speculative selection.

And once you remove injuried players and over 30 year old players; the only players a computer would have selected over the ones selected that are in the Top 21 Stats players are Aaron Wan-Bissaka, James Maddison and Luke Shaw.

In summary, Gareth Southgate selection of outfield playerscould be
i) don't consider injuried players, players over 30 yo that will not be considered (e.g. Ashley Young)
ii) let the stats choice the outfield players and remove all centre backs not in the top 12 players

iii) leave out Aaron Wan-Bissaka and James Maddison as there are in their first full season of premier league
iiia) replace them with Kyle Walker-23rd and Ross Barkley who had great stats at Everton

iv) replace Luke Shaw 13th with next best left back Danny Rose 29th
v)  add Eric Dyer, Jordan Henderson and Callum Hudson-Odoi

Garethe Southgate is a convert to "Compiuter Says Yes" or at least he selects the same players as the computer.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

[snarks]

I just get the impression that whatever TK says (and does) will not be enough for some people as long as he remains connected to the club.

Frankly I would rather he were here if it means continued investment. MJG did a survey on views of success rates on transfers and IIRC we are bang average in that.

Not every purchase will be a success but the number of  "I never want to see xxxx in the shirt again" posts following a couple of bad performances has featured heavily on these boards for people who have turned out alright or started to put in better subsequent performances. True they have also applied to players who never came good, but is our success rate so much worse than under MAF? - I don't think so.

[The Rational Fan]

Well if I was to accept all you say, then Statistics have certainly not done Fulham any good, and that is not a statistic, that is a fact.
Statistics show, that the people who celebrate the most birthdays are the oldest.
According to a recent government survey, 3/4 of the people living in England make up 75% of the population.
Also 51% of the population are the majority.

But to rest my case and to put this to bed, there are 3 kinds of lies, there are lies, dammed lies and statistics.

Well in Gareth Southgate only trusts Statistics then here is the team selection

1. Tom Henton
2. Kieran Trippier
3. Ben Chilwell
4. Michael Keane
5. Harry Maguire
6. Declan Rice
7. Raheem Sterling
8. Ross Barkley
9. Harry Kane
10. Dele All
11. Jadon Sancho
12. Marcus Rashford