NFR Bury

[Woolly Mammoth]

But then again, it is not your Football Club going to the wall.

Exactly

[toshes mate]

Only for those who still care ...

In 2001 Bury Football Club, under administration, were saved by thousands of donations from supporters and others, worldwide.  The crisis had been the result of borrowing £1m, a loan secured against Gigg Lane, at 15% annual interest, described, at the time, as money borrowed from a lender of true last resort, of which today's counterparts are much, much worse.  Escaping from this crisis, the Club's directors promised they would never again gamble with Bury's future.

By May 2013 when Bury were owned by Brian Fenton a local Bury supporter, they had an income of £2.7m but recorded a loss of over £700k.  Fenton could not bankroll the Club any further and so another financial crisis had developed.

Stewart Day took over the reins of the Club in the summer of 2014 and promised good things but it was the means that he used to finance this which almost certainly resulted in the eventual death of the football club by doing something the directors had promised would never happen again.
 
Public documents demonstrate that Day financed Bury's future with a loan of £1m, secured against Gigg Lane, at 10% interest per month, or 138% per year cumulative, and within one year Bury's debt would therefore be £2.38m.  But, as if that was not bad enough, worse was to follow. Day had previously taken out two loans from the same company at the same interest rates, adding up to a further £650k, which also became Bury FC's debts because they were also secured against Gigg Lane when combined with the new £1m loan. 

Now all of this is readily accessible public domain material, publicised at the time, and went on under the eyes of any and all interested parties and the EFL.  And that begs questions.

Why on earth didn't the interested parties (shareholders etc) make a fuss?  Why on earth didn't the EFL open their bloody eyes and at least investigate as they claim is their role and responsibility (one of the best football organisations in the world, no less) on their website?
   
A possible and plausible answer is the EFL can seemingly only go after the football club to punish it, kill it, or let it die because the owners appear to be out of the reach of anyone unless and until they commit a crime.  That may also be why FFP is just so much not fit for purpose.

Sadly the story of Bury is likely to be replicated again and again unless football gets its financial act in much better order by regulatory change which is independently overseen and properly administered. 

You may wish to note that there is a petition in current circulation to have Mr Day investigated for fraud which I'll say no more about.

[Statto]

Before the mods get concerned about libel I will post the link to that article, toshes mate

https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2014/nov/12/bury-high-interest-loans-shadow-recovery

Amazing how that article was written 5 years ago!

[junior white]

I'm probably in a minority of 1 but I don't see a problem with the demise of clubs. It may be sad at the time but life goes on & people will find other ways to spend their Saturdays.

AFC Wimbledon have shown the way ahead for a club with too few paying spectators to end up with a more democratically owned/run club. If Bury fans care enough, that is what they should now be looking to do. This is only a disaster if those Bury fans now do nothing.

Shocking, how would you feel if that was FUlham? It could have been before Jimmy Hill stepped in and then Al Fayed.

No not shocking Junior its just a fact of life.

Yes, i would be sad, disappointed even & angry at those that mismanaged the club to allow it to happen. But its just a football club & life goes on & other things do come along. It's not the death of the wife or kids so life goes on.

As i said Wimbledon are probably the way forward for more supporter involvement in the running of clubs.

I still miss Woolworths but their closure doesnt stop me going shopping.

For me it is shocking that you d=find the demise acceptable. Do you know how close we came and that wasn't all thru mismanagement.

I think most fans who watch and enjoy football that support any club would find your comments shocking

[Fernhurst]

Story tonight in the media, some like minded individuals prepared to serve an injunction on the EFL.

GREAT, that might encourage them to get their fingers out and do something constructive to prevent this happening again. Up to and including putting together a task force to go into clubs and examine the books and procedures, pretty much like the vat men.

[Mince n Tatties]

The hypocrisy of Sky Sports feigning concern for Bury outside their ground,when really a lot of the problems for Bury and others is Sky's relentless concern for only certain clubs at the top of the pyramid.

[toshes mate]

The EFL's executive chair Debbie Jevans, in a recorded interview on the BBC's website, has said she was devastated by the need to expel Bury FC on her watch.  The interview reveals the extent to which the EFL has its hands tied by current regulation.
 
Refreshingly, she does not simply look to the Premier League to assist in bailing out the lower echelons but instead urges the clubs she is responsible for to change the regulations to effectively prevent situations similar to Bury by having rules that curtail expenditure exceeding income, especially with, for example, player wages.  Jevans urged a move towards banning people who may be too great a risk (based on business profiles) if allowed to own a football club within the EFL, and promised to look at this with the clubs.   It is clear the EFL will look to change regulations as appropriate to gain greater control of football expenditure but stressed that the clubs (aka owners) would have to want and agree with proposed changes.  Ms Jevans clearly wants all parties on board and so her persuasive powers are very important.

Within the interview Ms Jevans is never defensive, aggressive or abusive towards any of those who make up the football fraternity and her measured and reasoned tones gave me a feeling of confidence that Bury FC's sad death may lead to the changes necessary to turn football around over the next several months .   Hopefully everyone in football, including an eventually revamped Bury FC, will live within a much better financial climate, one which may also encourage the Premier League to change their behaviours too.

Out of the darkness comes the light.

The interview is here:  https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/football/49504292

[Statto]

The interview reveals the extent to which the EFL has its hands tied by current regulation.

It's their rulebook so they've themselves to blame for that

[toshes mate]

The interview reveals the extent to which the EFL has its hands tied by current regulation.

It's their rulebook so they've themselves to blame for that

Superficially that may appear to be case, but it is the football club owners' votes that made the rule book in the first place and it is their votes that change those rules over time.  It is persuasive powers that are needed to get them to look again at cases like Bury. 

[Russianrob]

First Fulham home game witnessed was against Bury.Late 60's lost 4-2. Anyone know if Johnny Haynes was playing in that game and did he score?

[bog]

First Fulham home game witnessed was against Bury.Late 60's lost 4-2. Anyone know if Johnny Haynes was playing in that game and did he score?

8th October 1969, Jimmy Conway and Barry Lloyd and yes Johnny played.


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[Russianrob]

Thanks Bog!

[Twig]

The interview reveals the extent to which the EFL has its hands tied by current regulation.

It's their rulebook so they've themselves to blame for that

Superficially that may appear to be case, but it is the football club owners' votes that made the rule book in the first place and it is their votes that change those rules over time.  It is persuasive powers that are needed to get them to look again at cases like Bury. 

Exactly and the owners are famously reluctant to address the need for change.

[Statto]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49569697

The English Football League is to discuss Bury's future with its member clubs following efforts to reinstate the Shakers in League Two next season.

Bury were expelled from the EFL on 27 August after a failed takeover bid by C&N Sporting Risk.

Bury North MP James Frith has called for the Shakers to re-enter in the fourth tier for the 2020-21 season.

Meanwhile, Greater Manchester Police has said it is investigating an allegation of fraud involving the club.

No arrests have been made and inquiries are ongoing.

In a statement, the EFL said the "only current established procedure" for entry to League Two is promotion through the National League.

However, it added that "in acknowledgement of the extreme nature of the problems" at Bury, the EFL board had "agreed it is appropriate to discuss the matter with member clubs" and those talks will take place in the coming weeks.

The statement concluded: "Prior to formal consideration by any league competition of an eventual application from Bury FC to return to league football, clear evidence would be required of the club's financial viability and its ability to fulfil its ongoing commitments."

At present, application for re-entry into the English league system must be submitted to the Football Association, which would then determine which division the club will play in.

Mr Frith is planning to put forward a proposal to the EFL, supported by Mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham, by 20 September.

Bury's expulsion from League One means that three clubs, rather than four, will be relegated from the third tier this season and just one, instead of two, will go down from League Two.

In response to the combined efforts of supporters' groups, local authorities and politicians, the EFL clarified there is "no precedent for a club to enter the EFL directly through an application for admission or readmission following withdrawal of membership".

[filham]

Yes it is sad that old clubs like Bury and Bolton are about to drop out of the league but unless changes are made there will be others likely to follow them. Perhaps league 1&2 clubs need to become semi professional or receive significant subsidies from the super rich top 6 in the Premier league.

The dominance of the Premier League has had an effect to the whole of football, the authorities need to recognise this and react to it.

[Buffalo76]

In all honesty, would the demise of Bury be that big a deal? They may have won the FA Cup a million years ago and people go on on about their long rich history but generally they're just a little tin pot club in the north west that hardly anyone supports as shown by a handful of supporters who demonstrated at the ground over the last few weeks, the likes of Utd, City, Salford City are on the doorstop so they'll be far more appealing teams to follow, have barely troubled the higher divisions of the professional game in quite some time. I appreciate people have lost their jobs but there must be plenty of Morrison's supermarkets around the Bury area 4 employment. Look, even the wealthy Neville brothers chose to invest in another club. They can just regroup in the coal miners north western flat cap Warburton bread counties league next season 😉

[MikeTheCubed]

In all honesty, would the demise of Bury be that big a deal? They may have won the FA Cup a million years ago and people go on on about their long rich history but generally they're just a little tin pot club in the north west that hardly anyone supports as shown by a handful of supporters who demonstrated at the ground over the last few weeks, the likes of Utd, City, Salford City are on the doorstop so they'll be far more appealing teams to follow, have barely troubled the higher divisions of the professional game in quite some time. I appreciate people have lost their jobs but there must be plenty of Morrison's supermarkets around the Bury area 4 employment. Look, even the wealthy Neville brothers chose to invest in another club. They can just regroup in the coal miners north western flat cap Warburton bread counties league next season 😉

You do realise the same can be and was said about Fulham ~30 years ago?

[Buffalo76]

We're not a northern club with a miniscule fan base though are we 😏

[Statto]

We're not a northern club with a miniscule fan base though are we 😏

Bury's average attendance last season (4,044) put them slightly below average for a League Two club (4,467) and would have put them 5th from bottom among League One clubs.

Last time we completed a full season in the Championship, our average attendance (19.896) was slightly below average for the Championship that year (20.489) and last season our average attendance (24.371) put us 5th from bottom in the PL. 

So in terms of "fan base", Bury have as much right to be in League Two as we have to be in the Championship, and as much right to be in League One as we have to be in the PL.

Of course, either club's fortunes could evolve over a generation or so anyway.

I'm also going to stick my neck out and guess that you aren't among those of us on here who, like the Bury fans last week, volunteered to clean the ground back when the club couldn't afford cleaners.

[Buffalo76]

No I wasn't,  but I sent my butler with a duster instead😉