Author Topic: Team lineup for West Brom  (Read 1892 times)

Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2019, 07:07:27 PM »
International duty is finally coming to an end, thank goodness.  With that in mind, and considering that Arter will not be available, what would be your starting lineup? 

Mitro continues to be on fire so obviously he will lead the lineup.  I see no reason for the back four to change so Steven, Mawson, Ream and Bryan will defend with Betts still in goals.  Tom will retain his spot and I would assume Knockaert and Cavaleiro will also.  So that leaves just two players in the midfield to finish out the starting XI. 

I would be tempted to start Stef as he seems to have had a successful week during his national call up.  He should be running high with scoring a goal against Sweden.  That leaves only one more slot to fill.  Personally, I would continue to go with Reed, but I would be curious to hear other’s thoughts. 






I agree with your selection. I would have no problem with that team, as good as any team available subject to injury. MLM should not be anywhere near starting, warming the bench, that’s ok. As for Odoi, he can be useful as a back or coming on the second half if he has to.
I don’t agree with others about the fitness of players coming back from international duty, and to rest them, that is being soft.
It’s important to keep as close to the team that won an important point at Cardiff. We have already lost Arter, let’s not compound the situation.

Offline love4ffc

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2019, 07:38:37 PM »
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Offline Facts Not Fiction

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2019, 08:09:42 PM »
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.


Offline Mitrovic the warrior

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2019, 08:12:24 PM »
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?

He did well in the Cup.

Offline Twig

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2019, 08:52:45 PM »
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.

Fabri had a stinker last season so not “ dropped for far less”.  Betts has possibly missed a couple of very difficult saves but otherwise done little wrong. Completely disagree that Rodak deserves to start.

Offline Fernhurst

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2019, 10:28:51 PM »
Would definitely countinue with Betts until we can find a tall- strong -ball playing -international keeper that no centre forward would mess with.......... shouldn't be too difficult.
Oh,,, and they desperately wish to play for Fulham.
 


Offline Facts Not Fiction

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2019, 11:11:49 PM »
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.

Fabri had a stinker last season so not “ dropped for far less”.  Betts has possibly missed a couple of very difficult saves but otherwise done little wrong. Completely disagree that Rodak deserves to start.

Fabri’s “stinker” is far from Bettinelli’s “taking an age to distribute the ball, and actually let more goals in than saves”

Offline The Rational Fan

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2019, 12:02:23 AM »
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.

Fabri had a stinker last season so not “ dropped for far less”.  Betts has possibly missed a couple of very difficult saves but otherwise done little wrong. Completely disagree that Rodak deserves to start.

Fabri’s “stinker” is far from Bettinelli’s “taking an age to distribute the ball, and actually let more goals in than saves”

Interestingly “FIFA 20” ratings came out yesterday, our goalkeepers were rated as the 2nd, 11th and 18th Best Goalkeepers in the Championship.

Fabri’s rating fell enormously since last season, but is still now high enough to equal Knockaert rating and his rating is only just below Cairney (whose rating is also relying on 16/17 and 17/18 performances like Fabri, Knockaert and BC.Reid).

The reason Fabri rating is so high (ie rated 2nd best goal keeper in championship) is Beşiktaş fans rate him as equally good or better than Ryan Babel. Fabri was a great goalkeeper at Beşiktaş, let’s see how the 6ft midget goes in Liga A.

People keep talking about Fabri’s stinkers, but player of the year “Calum Chambers” wasn’t much better those two games and was given another chance.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:26:02 AM by The Rational Fan »

Online Arthur

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2019, 02:57:28 AM »
People keep talking about Fabri’s stinkers, but player of the year “Calum Chambers” wasn’t much better those two games and was given another chance.

I don't see that you can make a meaningful comparison between Fabri and an outfield player. Chambers began at centre half and then made his mark playing in another position - not an option for a goalkeeper.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 03:06:21 AM by Arthur »


Offline love4ffc

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2019, 03:17:04 AM »
Have to say, really surprised by the amount of stink thrown at Betts. 

Lots of people here have been calling for a player to come along that they could support and call one of their own.  A player who came through the academy, helped to get Fulham promoted and bleeds black and white through and through year in and year out. 

SO many other players have come through the academy only to leave once the first big pay day is thrown their way or to look elsewhere once they have been dropped and find themselves riding the pine. 

Can’t understand why people won’t get behind the lad and just support him.  He is more then good enough for this league. 

Offline The Rational Fan

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2019, 04:58:16 AM »
Many people suggested lineup is same as last game with Johansen in for Arter and maybe Rodak in for Betts, but this lineup would mean Parkers training sessions for the last two weeks were fairly pointless. As the team training vs playing wouldn’t be similar in any two adjacent positions.

Away = “Player not at Motsphur Park the last two weeks due to International Duty”
 
Calverio   Away    Knockaert
              Cairney   
                Away
                Reed
Bryan  Away   Mawson Away
                 Away

I suspect Parker would have spent most of the last two weeks improving the defence teamwork for the WBA match and beyond; but given he only has Betts, Odoi, Mawson, MLM and Bryan; the effort will be wasted unless at least two players next to each other on the field both play (ie at least play one of MLM or Odoi if possible).
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 05:12:29 AM by The Rational Fan »

Offline Facts Not Fiction

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2019, 08:21:32 AM »
Have to say, really surprised by the amount of stink thrown at Betts. 

Lots of people here have been calling for a player to come along that they could support and call one of their own.  A player who came through the academy, helped to get Fulham promoted and bleeds black and white through and through year in and year out. 

SO many other players have come through the academy only to leave once the first big pay day is thrown their way or to look elsewhere once they have been dropped and find themselves riding the pine. 

Can’t understand why people won’t get behind the lad and just support him.  He is more then good enough for this league. 


There is a reason he hasn't got his big payday. Because hes a completely average goalkeeper.

And Rodak is also a keeper who has worked hard, played throughout the leagues in the last 3 years, amasing vastly more games then Bettinelli.


Offline Woolly Mammoth

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2019, 08:31:46 AM »
Have to say, really surprised by the amount of stink thrown at Betts. 

Lots of people here have been calling for a player to come along that they could support and call one of their own.  A player who came through the academy, helped to get Fulham promoted and bleeds black and white through and through year in and year out. 

SO many other players have come through the academy only to leave once the first big pay day is thrown their way or to look elsewhere once they have been dropped and find themselves riding the pine. 

Can’t understand why people won’t get behind the lad and just support him.  He is more then good enough for this league. 


I agree, I am also surprised, and disappointed. But it’s just a noisy minority, who can be fickle and quick to criticise a player that has been loyal, as opposed to other players who at the first sign of a roll of readies being flashed in front of them jump ship without a second thought.

Offline Facts Not Fiction

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2019, 08:34:39 AM »
Have to say, really surprised by the amount of stink thrown at Betts. 

Lots of people here have been calling for a player to come along that they could support and call one of their own.  A player who came through the academy, helped to get Fulham promoted and bleeds black and white through and through year in and year out. 

SO many other players have come through the academy only to leave once the first big pay day is thrown their way or to look elsewhere once they have been dropped and find themselves riding the pine. 

Can’t understand why people won’t get behind the lad and just support him.  He is more then good enough for this league. 


I agree, I am also surprised, and disappointed. But it’s just a noisy minority, who can be fickle and quick to criticise a player that has been loyal, as opposed to other players who at the first sign of a roll of readies being flashed in front of them jump ship without a second thought.

He has had 1 high profile link throughout his career, and that was to be Chelsea's 3rd choice.

He has remained loyal, because no one seemingly wants to buy him. Rodak has worked far harder over the last few years, and has put in a performance this season which far exceeds anything from Bettinelli.

Offline Statto

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2019, 09:05:52 AM »
The thing is, surely even Bettinelli's strongest supporters on here would concede he's not one of those best-in-the-division players like Cairney or Mitrovic. He's in that bracket with McDonald, Ream and Odoi who are valuable members of the squad but susceptible to rotation. So Betts can't/shouldn't expect to play every game.

The way I'd describe his performances this season is that most of the goals he's conceded would have been saved by a solid PL keeper. At this level, no you don't expect him to save all of them but a good, on-form championship keeper would surely have saved a couple.

Also it's not like we're going to replace him with some Andre Schurrle type. As FNF says, Rodak is another academy player who's been waiting a long time for a break and thoroughly deserves it by all accounts.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 09:50:02 AM by Statto »


Offline toshes mate

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2019, 09:43:58 AM »
I am sure Bettinelli was disappointed with himself not to have saved a couple of shots in the goals against column this season.  That is the nature of anyone who has played in goal in a competitive match - you always believe you could have done better with the shots you got close to but not close enough or those shots where you were in two minds and either didn't immediately go with your intuition, or you went too soon.  The problem with the conceding goalkeeper is that you don't get a second chance.  For those reasons I dislike the vilification of Bettinelli on here intensely, especially when the authors are those who are so sensitive when it comes to criticism of their own particular heroes when it comes to mistakes.  Give the guy a break or two, please, because he isn't pretending to be the world's best, he is simply trying to be the best he can be.  Goals are mostly down to a series or collection of individual mistakes and that is why, as supporters we love to see goals that are creatively unstoppable because they are the mark of genius and not human error.   Who is our best goalkeeper at the moment and who, out of the candidates, is complaining that he isn't being given a chance?  I am sure that is where the coaches come into play and I am happy to let them decide.     

Offline Jim©

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2019, 10:11:46 AM »
Let me just add some stats to this.
Fulham are 6th currently in the table. When table is sorted in order of "shots on target save %" we have just two teams below us- QPR and Stoke, with a % of 54%. That's poor, really poor. The top 3 in the table are all in the top six of that stat, so we're relying on other things to make up for that deficiency. We have for instance conceded the least shots on target of any team in the championship (11- same as Leeds) and had the most shots on target (31 same as Leeds).
Looking at Rodaks performance for Rotherham last season in comparison, he saved 64% of shots on target.

Interestingly at the other end of the pitch we're middling for goals per shot on target with just 32% (same as Leeds). Top are over performing Charlton and what I'd consider lucky Forest.

Is Betts a good bloke? Probably. Is he loyal? It would seem so, but neither will help us get promoted I'm afraid.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 10:16:07 AM by Jim© »

Offline Sting of the North

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2019, 10:35:32 AM »
Let me just add some stats to this.
Fulham are 6th currently in the table. When table is sorted in order of "shots on target save %" we have just two teams below us- QPR and Stoke, with a % of 54%. That's poor, really poor. The top 3 in the table are all in the top six of that stat, so we're relying on other things to make up for that deficiency. We have for instance conceded the least shots on target of any team in the championship (11- same as Leeds) and had the most shots on target (31 same as Leeds).
Looking at Rodaks performance for Rotherham last season in comparison, he saved 64% of shots on target.

Interestingly at the other end of the pitch we're middling for goals per shot on target with just 32% (same as Leeds). Top are over performing Charlton and what I'd consider lucky Forest.

Is Betts a good bloke? Probably. Is he loyal? It would seem so, but neither will help us get promoted I'm afraid.

Stats that is goals allowed from a sample size of 11 shots are in my opinion very close to useless (I mean, save % for goalkeepers in football is quite the uninteresting stat to begin with, given the relatively low amounts of shots and goals and given that good goalkeeping is about so much more than that).
 
Far too small sample size to in any way account for coincidences, flukes, bad luck or just a bad day at the office.

It is however encouraging that we allow the least shots and have the most shots. Over six games that at least says something. Doesn't show the quality of the chances though.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 10:38:51 AM by Sting of the North »

Offline Mitrovic the warrior

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2019, 11:20:31 AM »
I wonder how many of those who advocate Rodak have actually seen him play?
Think this is a fair question.  I personally would not drop Betts right now.  Think that would be extremely harsh.  As for seeing Rodak, I have only seen him on the highlights from the cup game so I could not say if he is better or not. 

As for the discussion concerning the back line, I think it just shows how little confidence everyone has still in the defense and little really has been done to strenghten it.  Can't wait to see Hector. 

Bettinelli has had a very poor start to the season. Fabri was dropped for far less last season.

Rodak took his chance superbly, and deserves to start.

Fabri had a stinker last season so not “ dropped for far less”.  Betts has possibly missed a couple of very difficult saves but otherwise done little wrong. Completely disagree that Rodak deserves to start.

Fabri made a mistake for the second goal against Palace but can't be blamed for the first. He was no worse than the other two keepers and would do better than Betts at this level in my opinion, but he's gone so it's a moot point.

Offline Jim©

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Re: Team lineup for West Brom
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2019, 11:22:20 AM »
I'm not sure it's entirely worthless as it gives at the least an indicator.

When we got promoted, save % of shots on target was not in the top 6, though much healthier than it is now.
I'd say that Barnsley, Forest (2nd) and Cardiff were all saveable, though of course other factors could have prevented them in the first place (though that's not what's being discussed).