How to defend and Fulham’s game plan

[FulhamStu]

Good defending means limiting your opponents goal scoring opportunities.

The keeper rolling the ball to a central defender 3 yards from his own goal with attackers in close proximity and the defender then trying to run the ball inside his penalty area because there is not an easy pass on, allows the attacker the opportunity to put in a tackle, win the ball and create a chance.
That ladies and gentlemen is not how to defend, more how to present a chance to your opponents.

Defenders no 1 role should be to prevent chances however in the above example that tactic does exactly he opposite.

Now we all know that, Parker will know that, all the coaches and players will know that so why do it ?

It's risk and reward, and I expect Parker and many other coaches are trying to prove themselves as the next great coach by adopting these tactics.

Many on here do not like Big Sam, why, because he has a reputation for long ball football.  What Big Sam and a few others like him do however is look at the facts.  The facts are, the more the ball is close to the opponents goal, the more likely we are to score.   We are not scoring a goal by Mawson passing it to Ream, Ream back to Mawson, etc etc.  I understand we are trying to pull players forward, then catch them out of position, I understand why we pass it around at the back however for me it's not the way to get the best out of our players. 

We need to get the ball to our better players faster and go from there.  We need to stop giving it to centre halves in our own penalty area as this only creates chances for our opponents.  We need to drill the defence shape much better and we need a solid defensive set up in midfield. 

Our midfield 3 is often outnumbered to create the luxury of 3 forwards.  Include in that midfield 3 an inconsistent Cairney who at times drifts out of games and we are bang in trouble.

I would play 2 midfield players with discipline to get back goal side .  Maybe Arter and Reed when fit, Cairney in front of these 2 and Reid has to play due to his work rate.  Mitro will obviously start and then you rotate the others.  We need an upgrade at right back and cover at left back with the full backs providing width.  I am hoping Mawson will improve on the left next to Hector.. sorry Tim.

I would absolutely love to chat to any of our coaching team to understand their logic.  For me the first half v Charlton told me all I needed to know.  They changed it and we played great 2nd half.  However our plan A was back in place yesterday and we saw what happened.

Sorry that was a bit long.

[res]

 It's all about playing out of defence sensibly. Most of us don't want to see massive kicks upfields all the time (now and then is OK), but what is not happening is playing out while minimising risk. Mawsom got a lot of flack for fumbling in the penalty area for Luton's first goal, but Rodak's throw out put him into trouble; similarly Bryan got flack for Luton's third goal, but Ream's pass out of defence put Bryan into trouble, especially as he was wandering towards our goal. In both cases, blame has to be shared; but the main point is that in both cases the consequent goals would have been avoided if Rodak and Ream had thought of the risk and realised (as they should have done) the proximity of Luton players to Mawsom and Bryan. So Rodak could have held onto the ball longer and looked at options; Ream should have been looking at sending the ball down the line rather than infield. Whatever, we must stop giving out these gifts.

[filham]

Yes, as good post. The other theory is that while you are in possession your opponents cannot score but of course while you are in possession in your own half you are not going to score either but are at high risk of giving an opportunity to your opponents.

I think there are signs that Parker is trying to make more forward passes but he really must cut out that short passing around our own penalty area. Every manager in the Championship must now be aware that with this game we are presenting them with opportunities for a gift goal.

[Arthur]

For me the first half v Charlton told me all I needed to know.  They changed it and we played great 2nd half.  However our plan A was back in place yesterday and we saw what happened.

You don't say what changes against Charlton you so commend. As the basis of your post is to decry playing out from the back, I would have expected that to be the key difference, but, as I recall, we still built our attacks from the back and through the midfield in our second-half fightback.

Moreover, I don't agree that yesterday's performance was typical of those prior to the Leeds game. I thought we were more purposeful in possession at the back - quicker to get the ball into our opponents' half. We had 12 shots on target and 19 altogether - and many of them decent attempts too, I thought. (Against Charlton, the offal tells me we had 20 shots with 7 on target - so yesterday stands up to comparison well.)

To echo comments above, either Rodak, Mawson, or both were clearly guilty of trying to play out from the back at the wrong moment, but there is, in my opinion, a place for doing so whereby the reward can outweigh the risk. I no more want to see Rodak kicking the ball long every single time than I want to see a repeat of yesterday's ill-judged attempt that gifted Luton their chance to score.

[AnOldBrownie]

For me the first half v Charlton told me all I needed to know.  They changed it and we played great 2nd half.  However our plan A was back in place yesterday and we saw what happened.

You don't say what changes against Charlton you so commend? As the basis of your post is to decry playing out from the back, I would have expected that to be the key difference, but, as I recall, we still built our attacks from the back and through the midfield in our second-half fightback.

Moreover, I don't agree that yesterday's performance was typical of those prior to the Leeds game. I thought we were more purposeful in possession at the back - quicker to get the ball into our opponents' half. We had 12 shots on target and 19 altogether - and many of them decent attempts too, I thought. (Against Charlton, the offal tells me we had 20 shots with 7 on target - so yesterday stands up to comparison well.)

To echo comments above, either Rodak, Mawson, or both were clearly guilty of trying to play out from the back at the wrong moment, but there is, in my opinion, a place for doing so whereby the reward can outweigh the risk. I no more want to see Rodak kicking the ball long every single time than I want to see a repeat of yesterday's ill-judged attempt that gifted Luton their chance to score.

:plus one:

And from Scott Parker's comments I think he agrees with you as well.    Those mistakes are situational PLAYER mistakes where the boys on the pitch need to read the game better.

In no way do I think Scott Parker has told the back line or Rodak "don't you even hoof that ball long"

[ScalleysDad]

It's all about playing out of defence sensibly. Most of us don't want to see massive kicks upfields all the time (now and then is OK), but what is not happening is playing out while minimising risk. Mawsom got a lot of flack for fumbling in the penalty area for Luton's first goal, but Rodak's throw out put him into trouble; similarly Bryan got flack for Luton's third goal, but Ream's pass out of defence put Bryan into trouble, especially as he was wandering towards our goal. In both cases, blame has to be shared; but the main point is that in both cases the consequent goals would have been avoided if Rodak and Ream had thought of the risk and realised (as they should have done) the proximity of Luton players to Mawsom and Bryan. So Rodak could have held onto the ball longer and looked at options; Ream should have been looking at sending the ball down the line rather than infield. Whatever, we must stop giving out these gifts.

Interesting stuff. I doubt very much Parker and Co spend time at Motspur Park working on suicidal passing in the box or passing to a player being closed down with no place to go no matter how much some people on here would like to think he does. Individuals are making mistakes, terrible ones at that, and from experience the most finely tuned back four coached on set plays and distribution comes undone when somebody does something out of the ' what the heck were you thinking' scrap book. I have always subscribed to the fact that this squad is not as good as it needs to be and that includes having a good football brain. Knockhaert is not coached to hang onto the ball too long, AK is not shown how to miss a barn door, Odoi is not tutored in the dark arts and when to enact them and I am sure a keeper rolling a ball out to the least likely candidate is not on the agenda tomorrow. Of course it might be the weight of expectation but strong leadership on the pitch would help. We have not had a commanding presence in front of the back four for years and on top of that absolutely nothing comes from the current holder of the arm band.
As you say the risk verses safety aspect of the game is a key aspect we are missing.

[Statto]

I doubt very much Parker and Co spend time at Motspur Park working on suicidal passing in the box or passing to a player being closed down with no place to go no matter how much some people on here would like to think he does.

...

Knockhaert is not coached to hang onto the ball too long, AK is not shown how to miss a barn door, Odoi is not tutored in the dark arts and when to enact them and I am sure a keeper rolling a ball out to the least likely candidate is not on the agenda tomorrow.

Sorry I can agree with you about Odoi's moments but the others are all things that could be resolved through proper coaching. No, Parker isn't coaching suicidal passing, but nor is he coaching Cairney, Onomah or Reed to drop deep and/or show some movement to give an outlet, or for the team to purposefully move the ball side-to-side, create triangles etc, as we discernably did under Jokanovic. Similarly Knockaert is clearly not being instructed to go down the line rather than cut inside. He's not even been played on the correct side for that, ie the left. And if AK47's finishing is letting him down then again, you put him in a position where he can get into dangerous areas and tell him to pass it instead of shoot.

[ScalleysDad]

I doubt very much Parker and Co spend time at Motspur Park working on suicidal passing in the box or passing to a player being closed down with no place to go no matter how much some people on here would like to think he does.

...

Knockhaert is not coached to hang onto the ball too long, AK is not shown how to miss a barn door, Odoi is not tutored in the dark arts and when to enact them and I am sure a keeper rolling a ball out to the least likely candidate is not on the agenda tomorrow.

Sorry I can agree with you about Odoi's moments but the others are all things that could be resolved through proper coaching. No, Parker isn't coaching suicidal passing, but nor is he coaching Cairney, Onomah or Reed to drop deep and/or show some movement to give an outlet, or for the team to purposefully move the ball side-to-side, create triangles etc, as we discernably did under Jokanovic. Similarly Knockaert is clearly not being instructed to go down the line rather than cut inside. He's not even been played on the correct side for that, ie the left. And if AK47's finishing is letting him down then again, you put him in a position where he can get into dangerous areas and tell him to pass it instead of shoot.

Yes, no and maybe. But. I don't wish to be perdantic but I think Onamah and Reed will settle more with game time and might just offer some composure which in turn should cancel out some of the rash decision making. Cairney has been mentioned on here recently as coasting it a bit and my gut feeling is that he must be frustrating the hell out of the coaching team. Cairney is given the pivotal role and is currently the only option for it but his decision making, not technique, positioning or passing ability, often slows things up. The dug out cannot really influence that from the touchline but I suppose Parker could take him off. That will make him popular.
Knockaert has been widely criticised on here for his decision making and perhaps that is why he is more often on the bench these days. He is obviously more left sided but the option of having he and Cav swapping sides during a game should be a great weapon to have and it should be working even on the simple fact that they are professional footballers. It might have been the West Brom game where I remember him taking two extra touches into touch instead of a simple pass across the eighteen yard line to tee up Mitro or Cairney. The dug out simultaneously kicked anything that did'nt move so they were obviously frustrated at a simple plan not being carried out. I am sure the latter option would have been worked on in training but come the moment one part of the plan decided to take a different path and he did that often. Similarly AK is a pacey bulldozer, that's his strength, and it has been utilised by not chaining him to a Mitro holding up play type role. However he often gets the ball at the same time as a red mist descends. At Motspur Park I am sure touch, control, poise and balance are all ticked off but choosing to welly the ball from twenty five yards out threatening the corner flag comes from the player in that moment. He has shown he can hit the net so work on that obviously happens.
Some people are talking about potential leavers in January. I actually think knockaerts days are numbered.

[FulhamStu]

For me the first half v Charlton told me all I needed to know.  They changed it and we played great 2nd half.  However our plan A was back in place yesterday and we saw what happened.

You don't say what changes against Charlton you so commend. As the basis of your post is to decry playing out from the back, I would have expected that to be the key difference, but, as I recall, we still built our attacks from the back and through the midfield in our second-half fightback.

Moreover, I don't agree that yesterday's performance was typical of those prior to the Leeds game. I thought we were more purposeful in possession at the back - quicker to get the ball into our opponents' half. We had 12 shots on target and 19 altogether - and many of them decent attempts too, I thought. (Against Charlton, the offal tells me we had 20 shots with 7 on target - so yesterday stands up to comparison well.)

To echo comments above, either Rodak, Mawson, or both were clearly guilty of trying to play out from the back at the wrong moment, but there is, in my opinion, a place for doing so whereby the reward can outweigh the risk. I no more want to see Rodak kicking the ball long every single time than I want to see a repeat of yesterday's ill-judged attempt that gifted Luton their chance to score.

Ok let me discuss the Charlton game and compare to Luton away.

In the first half, as at Luton, we had the 2 centre halves waiting, inside the penalty area for the ball to be rolled to them.  Charlton knew we would do this and pressed high with 4 forward players closing down space in our own penalty area.  This created panic and poor Sess ended up having a nightmare due to errors caused by the high press.   Similarly at Luton, despite their forward pressing high, we again chose to roll the ball to defenders who were closed down quickly and made mistakes.  It was as though nothing was learned from Charlton first half.  This has to be a tactic and i expect Parker says it's worth the risk as it draws the opponents forward.  I of course don't know this.  Why have 2 defenders in your own box waiting for the ball to be rolled 3 yards to them, by all means have the keeper throw the ball to players in space, but out wide and further away from goal.   I think coaches are trying to use the fact that the ball does not need to leave the Penalty area but are just causing themselves problems.


2nd half v Charlton we went far more direct.. rather than passing side to side we ran at them and should have won the game.  It's true this was helped by Charlton not having the energy to close down so well but it was clear to me, we got the ball forward very quickly and this utilised our talented forwards far better.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Like in any sport you have to improvise, and if your system of play and game plan is being stifled by the movements of your opponents, you don't just keep playing the same way until you are undone through pressure, because pressure forces opponents to make mistakes including Fulham. The way I saw it, Rodak rolled the ball out to Mawson unnecessarily, admittedly Mawsons first touch was poor but maybe he was not expecting it, and he was closed down quickly, which orchestrated the error made, but Rodak imo made a poor error of judgement, and it's all about decision making.
Same as in the second half when Ream telegraphed the pass and the ball to Bryan who was being closed down before the pass was made, and as Bryan was not facing the opponents goal he had his pocket picked by an opponent, whereas Ream was facing play and should never had made that pass in the first place, another expensive error of judgement. Its all about decision making and communication, basics.
What annoys me is when you get self appointed ex player pundits who are one step up the evolutionary ladder from a Garden Gnome, with the advantage of analysing it after the event has occurred stating the bleeding obvious, and getting well paid for it. Like the charmless shop steward Gary Neville, who never ceases to amaze me with his lack of charisma, charm and social skills dictating to anyone daft enough to listen what any bloke in any pub would be able to deduce, it's not rocket science. The last time I saw a face like Gary Neville, they were nailing it down in a coffin, I wonder how much he charges for haunting a house.

[toshes mate]

Players at any level of professional football need to be composed in possession and have switched on concentration when not in possession regardless of which team has the ball.   There also needs to be cohesive thought at team level e.g. game plan; subtle signals for when to play long or play short; how to deal with opponents who press and how to deal with opponents who do not press; how to triangulate possession in a way that drags opponents out of position; when to play one touch football, and when to slow things down, and so on through a whole raft of traits.  These are the things that are coached into good sides using the natural ability of individuals.  Possession gets stifled when a team carries the ball to where the defenders want it to go, rather than the team in possession controlling where they want the opponents to move to. 

These are the key elements of what good sides do to their opponents.  There is risk in anything and everything if a player makes a mistake or bad choice but the way out of mistakes and bad decisions can often be found via cohesion, concentration and composure.  Unfortunately what we too often see is panic, both before and after the initial mistake.  Often it strikes me that nobody wants to be the Fulham player who makes the mistake and therefore the ball is got rid of too hastily or in a dangerous manner.  We do not seem to have copious amounts of the essential elements that make players confident and I'd suggest that is down to something fundamentally flawed in coaching.

 

[colinwhite]

Come on lets get this in perspective. The playing out from the back is something that we have done (most usually successfully all season ) since day one and although you could claim that its boring it has not  actually led to 2 many goals against . ok sessignon against charlton and forest (2 individual mistakes ) and Mawson against Luton. But we have also reaped alot of rewards from it as well.

The first half against WBA springs to mind where we had almost 80 percent possession ,created loads of chances which we didnt put away and but for a goalkeeping error would have won. Had we won 3-0 it wouldnt have flattered us . So lets have abit of balance in the lack of organisation debate.

[Bassey the warrior]

The key is being smart about it. If there's three opposing players around our box and only one player showing for the ball, don't play it short.

[Matt10]

Come on lets get this in perspective. The playing out from the back is something that we have done (most usually successfully all season ) since day one and although you could claim that its boring it has not  actually led to 2 many goals against . ok sessignon against charlton and forest (2 individual mistakes ) and Mawson against Luton. But we have also reaped alot of rewards from it as well.

The first half against WBA springs to mind where we had almost 80 percent possession ,created loads of chances which we didnt put away and but for a goalkeeping error would have won. Had we won 3-0 it wouldnt have flattered us . So lets have abit of balance in the lack of organisation debate.

Well said. We do this and blow things out of proportion constantly. The Luton match was unfortunate because it was mental stuff that resulted in putting pressure onto ourselves, and not being able to handle it. It does not happen all the time, but I understand the weight of goals conceded or scored dominate all conversations.

We will learn from it, and we will grow in confidence with it. For all the times it works, it will be judged for that one time it doesn't. Not an unfamiliar theme in football.

[FulhamStu]

Come on lets get this in perspective. The playing out from the back is something that we have done (most usually successfully all season ) since day one and although you could claim that its boring it has not  actually led to 2 many goals against . ok sessignon against charlton and forest (2 individual mistakes ) and Mawson against Luton. But we have also reaped alot of rewards from it as well.

The first half against WBA springs to mind where we had almost 80 percent possession ,created loads of chances which we didnt put away and but for a goalkeeping error would have won. Had we won 3-0 it wouldnt have flattered us . So lets have abit of balance in the lack of organisation debate.

Well said. We do this and blow things out of proportion constantly. The Luton match was unfortunate because it was mental stuff that resulted in putting pressure onto ourselves, and not being able to handle it. It does not happen all the time, but I understand the weight of goals conceded or scored dominate all conversations.

We will learn from it, and we will grow in confidence with it. For all the times it works, it will be judged for that one time it doesn't. Not an unfamiliar theme in football.

There is nothing wrong with playing out from the back.  There is however everything wrong if you have 4 forwards in close attendance having the ball rolled to you 3 or 4 yards from goal.  And yes, this happens all the time and no, we don't always concede but boy do we increase the chances of that happening.

Of course play our from the back but do it in a sensible way and don't do it if the odds are stacked against you.

I think, if you listen carefully to Parker's comments after the game, he was trying to say just that.  We need to judge when to do this and when not too, and use a bit of footballing nouse.

[colinwhite]

Agree Stu. The mix it up idea is the way to go. Their was some extremely poor decision making for both their 1st and 3rd goals from experienced players.Unecesaary goals to concede ,christmas gifts you could say.

[bahay18]

Playing it out from the back is all about the situation at the time and the players have to be aware . This nonsense from a goal kick where the 2 centre half's stand on the 6 yard box , rodak dillying for a minute while the opposition line up on the edge of the area daring us is a clear no . If On the other hand we are sharp and we can play a short ball while our opponents are reorganising and we can quickly move the ball forward into midfield then it's a yes , go for it .