Got that wrong....

[Sting of the North]

And Kamara has been good, on and off the pitch, for years. It was only Ranieri that had a problem with him.

and

Colin, I'm not sure about you but my comments are based on facts ...
[/quote]

I would seriously question the validity of the above assertions, Statto.

Mitro had a massive problem with Kamara over yoga [fact] that was made very public and he also had a major incident at the training ground [fact] that could have got him fired from most clubs.

Instead, Kamara was loaned out and only brought back in to the fold during the close season by Parker who also gave him the opportunity to step in for Mitro against QPR.

I would not call that "years" of being good on and off the pitch and only the most partisan would deny Parker some degree of credit for Kamara's reintegration to the squad.
[/quote]

I love that you use [fact] as if it somehow makes the at least partly speculative and subjective parts ("massive problem", "major incident") of your comment more valid.

Maybe it was much blown out of proportion?

In my book most things points to Ranieri being more of a problem than Kamara ["fact"].

[colinwhite]

My opinion of kamara and it was only my opinion ,was that he had a poor first touch,was generally clumsy,all blood and thunder and abit f a hot head ,with poor understanding of the game and an overinflated view of his own ability. And that was long before Ranieri set foot in the club (though he probably made things worse). The performance aginst QPR and the matche sthat followed must be down to something ,because for me, there was amarked improvement in his play.

[FFC1987]

Could just you your starting point was ill judged and a bit rash? I always thought he was capable and had attributes that we didn't have ie pace and strength in abundance. Happens to the best of us, i've been wrong and wrote off plenty of players over the years (and managers), but when someone comes good, there's no shame in changing an opinion when proven wrong. The shame is not changing the opinion when proven wrong. I predicted first top 2, then 6th, and now I think we could do top 2 again.....and Parker should of been sacked. Happens.

[Statto]

I would seriously question the validity of the above assertions, Statto.

Mitro had a massive problem with Kamara over yoga [fact] that was made very public and he also had a major incident at the training ground [fact] that could have got him fired from most clubs.

Instead, Kamara was loaned out and only brought back in to the fold during the close season by Parker who also gave him the opportunity to step in for Mitro against QPR.

I would not call that "years" of being good on and off the pitch and only the most partisan would deny Parker some degree of credit for Kamara's reintegration to the squad.

Let's be clear about the factual position:

The penalty incident and alleged yoga and training ground incidents all occurred within a three-week period around Christmas 2018, at which time Kamara had already been at the club for one and a half "years".

Mitrovic said after the penalty incident that he had no problem with Kamara and had done the same thing himself in the past.

The details of the yoga and training ground incidents were newspaper rumours, not "facts".

Mcdonald came out after the yoga story and said it was amazing what the newspapers could make up.

No charges were brought after the alleged training ground incident, implying Kamara dud not use or threaten violence (because that would constitute assault, an offence).

[Statto]

My opinion of kamara and it was only my opinion ,was that he had a poor first touch,was generally clumsy,all blood and thunder and abit f a hot head ,with poor understanding of the game and an overinflated view of his own ability. And that was long before Ranieri set foot in the club (though he probably made things worse). The performance aginst QPR and the matche sthat followed must be down to something ,because for me, there was amarked improvement in his play.

Can I assume you were gutted and perplexed to see him in the starting XI at Wembley then?

[colinwhite]

Could just you your starting point was ill judged and a bit rash? I always thought he was capable and had attributes that we didn't have ie pace and strength in abundance. Happens to the best of us, i've been wrong and wrote off plenty of players over the years (and managers), but when someone comes good, there's no shame in changing an opinion when proven wrong. The shame is not changing the opinion when proven wrong. I predicted first top 2, then 6th, and now I think we could do top 2 again.....and Parker should of been sacked. Happens.

Clearly that was the case to a degree,but the performance we saw against QPR was a  marked develpoment you must admit from what we had seen previously.. The list of things I have got wrong is long for sure !

[colinwhite]

I was nt gutted to see him at wembley Statto ,but not sure he would have been my choice. But he did a good job in a different role in the play-offs as well as at wembley,but cant remember ever thinking he was up to much as striker. In the QPR match he proved me wrong and good on him for that.
I never doubted his pace or physical strength ,and his role at wembly gave him an opportunity to use theses qualities  in a role he was better suited to at the time

[Hatch007]

Let's be clear about the factual position:

The penalty incident and alleged yoga and training ground incidents all occurred within a three-week period around Christmas 2018, at which time Kamara had already been at the club for one and a half "years".

Mitrovic said after the penalty incident that he had no problem with Kamara and had done the same thing himself in the past.

The details of the yoga and training ground incidents were newspaper rumours, not "facts".

Mcdonald came out after the yoga story and said it was amazing what the newspapers could make up.

No charges were brought after the alleged training ground incident, implying Kamara dud not use or threaten violence (because that would constitute assault, an offence).
[/quote]

Fact, not rumour. It was a club statement!!!

In a club statement, Fulham added: "The club is grateful for the swift attention and action by the Metropolitan Police immediately following our reporting of the incident on Monday. The subject who was arrested is banned indefinitely from Motspur Park and all club activities.
Source: The Telegraph

So you're just wrong about it being a rumour but will never admit it. Just sayin'

[Statto]

Fact, not rumour. It was a club statement!!!

In a club statement, Fulham added: "The club is grateful for the swift attention and action by the Metropolitan Police immediately following our reporting of the incident on Monday. The subject who was arrested is banned indefinitely from Motspur Park and all club activities.
Source: The Telegraph

So you're just wrong about it being a rumour but will never admit it. Just sayin'

I'm not sure quoting a club statement that doesn't tell you who was involved or what happened contradicts my comment that the "details" were rumours... But it was already clear that you've a very limited understanding of the concepts of fact and reason. I take it from your silence on the other points that you've at least seen sense on those.
Goodnight!

[Hatch007]

Fact, not rumour. It was a club statement!!!

In a club statement, Fulham added: "The club is grateful for the swift attention and action by the Metropolitan Police immediately following our reporting of the incident on Monday. The subject who was arrested is banned indefinitely from Motspur Park and all club activities.
Source: The Telegraph

So you're just wrong about it being a rumour but will never admit it. Just sayin'

I'm not sure quoting a club statement that doesn't tell you who was involved or what happened contradicts my comment that the "details" were rumours... But it was already clear that you've a very limited understanding of the concepts of fact and reason. I take it from your silence on the other points that you've at least seen sense on those.
Goodnight!

Doesn't tell you who was involved? Jesus, that's close to the ultimate in clutching at straws! I literally LMFAO when I read your reply.

I could rip your reply to pieces were I bothered in the slightest by your opinion on my "understanding blah blah blah" but please don't for one minute flatter yourself and consider my silence on that and the other points as any kind of admission of anything. It's not! I just have better things to do with my time than pull you up on every inaccuracy or questionable comment. I disagree with so much of your drivel on this site that I choose to ignore and should know better but for my sins I took the bait on this one occasion. I just wanted to satisfy my curiosity to see if you would admit you were wrong but deep down I knew all along it's beneath you.

Goodnight? Nice sign off you sad, patronising fool.

With the tone and disrespect I regularly see you extend to so many on this board you clearly love to feel superior and have the last word so enjoy your unanswered, pointless riposte to this reply. Rest assured I won't waste any more of my time by responding any further.

[toshes mate]

I got it so very wrong to think this was a thread about Onomah only to meet with so many cheap shots about incidents that have many more facets to them than some people who comment about them have grey matter for brains, but I may return to that for a later comment.

As for the worship of Onomah and Parker then I take that to be people who genuinely need to clutch at straws rather than coolly and collectively look at simple facts.  We started this season as an automatic promotion standard team and, as of now, that remains a possibility or a doubt depending on how you want to view it.  Work, and a lot of it, still needs to be done.  Onomah is also, IMO, still in that murky area that asks whilst he has improved is he clearly better than those left out of the side to accommodate him?  That is a measure you must make of any player in any position.  I still have many doubts about him as a young player but they are intrinsically linked to what Parker is trying to do with him and the midfield, and that is my big doubt about Parker too.  I think Parker has passed up many chances to solve his problems in midfield via the scenic route rather than by tried and tested formula methods.  That remains my doubt about Parker and, even if he achieves promotion via whatever route, it will remain a doubt about him for the future.

Jokanovic's methods were understandable and easy to comprehend over time.  I do not find that with Parker at all.

[toshes mate]

Slavisa wrote them off last season as did the club.Good management to get them back to previous levels.As  for Parker ,you clearly dont like him and are unlikely to give him credit for much as it goes against what you have stated previously. Shame it has to be like that really.

This is the bigoted and blinkered comment that kicked the whole thing off, IMHO.  It is, IMO, playground stuff that you should leave behind when you pass puberty.

[Logicalman]

Before we get too excited remember Onomah, Arter, Reed and McDonald have played a combined 2,743 minutes for 1 goal and 2 assists this Championship season. We seem to be leaving goals and assists to the front four, if I was the other team wouldn't bother marking players like Onomah, Arter, Reed and McDonald too much.

Well, if they repeat that effort and we continue to win, then I, for one, am not going to complain. I always look upon this as a team effort, not so much individuals, so is it not possible their presence and off-ball movement might have contributed to the other players scoring and assisting?

Like Colin, I had the same thoughts regarding Onomah and KMac, but they each put shifts in that contribute to the overall effort, and whether they are as good as some other players it all comes down to whether they contribute as much or more than those other 'better' players. In the past few games they have, KMac is slow, but positions well, and Onomah has been slowly improving since playing for regularly. I still find Ream making too many silly mistakes when passing (especially backwards) but he has proven himself in the air many times.
Perhaps the other managers understand that these players have not scored as much, but realize they are a threat all the same, and so they continue to mark them?

[colinwhite]

Theres nothing bigoted about mentioning that Slavisa played neither Kmac or Stef jo ,on many occassions in the premiership. That was his choice ,though granted he may have been under pressure to play the new signings.
Toshes mate. What are you trying to achieve with your comments that are presumably directed at me ? " Play ground ,Puberty " etc comes from your interpretation of something  within yourself ,not anything I have stated. Interesting and unfortunate  choice of words which says more about your emotions  than mine.

[colinwhite]

as far as comparing Slavisa to Scott is concerned ,that seems to me to be a bit unfair. Jokanovic did  superb a job for us and although not vastly experienced  had been around for a while. Parker is learning on the job with a new squad so its seems a bit harsh to judge him just yet on the clarity that you seek. I agree that he has struggled and things are far from certain  moving forward but he appears to have the players solidly behind him as the re-appearance of the metioned players illustrate, and that seems like a decent start to me.

[Statto]

Theres nothing bigoted about mentioning that Slavisa played neither Kmac or Stef jo ,on many occassions in the premiership. That was his choice ,though granted he may have been under pressure to play the new signings.
Toshes mate. What are you trying to achieve with your comments that are presumably directed at me ? " Play ground ,Puberty " etc comes from your interpretation of something  within yourself ,not anything I have stated. Interesting and unfortunate  choice of words which says more about your emotions  than mine.

I'm sure you're clever enough to work out he (like me) was referring to the last two sentences -  "As  for Parker ,you clearly dont like him and are unlikely to give him credit for much as it goes against what you have stated previously. Shame it has to be like that really."

[colinwhite]

Wasnt that fair comment Statto ? Based on what you have written previously it was an observation. If it caused offense then appologies .

[toshes mate]

@colinwhite

Oh yes, colinwhite, we should all recognise it within ourselves because we have been through it.  Get over yourself.

The arguments about SJ and whatever happened to his motley crew from the promotion year are long worn out.  Your words were - Slavisa wrote them off - because you wanted to make your comparison with your new god, SP, so clear to the rest of your audience that you didn't know how to express it any other way.  It kicked things off and that is what makes it childish. 

I apologise if I have offended you but the thread was interesting up to that point and then descended into nastiness.  Just my opinion as I said.

[colinwhite]

Toshes mate . ok no offence taken. but to be clear- I am no Parker worshiper . He has a lot to learn and the jury is very firmly out , but I hope he succeeds . You are reading things into some comments that are not there. I dont agree with much of your criticism of Parker but I respect your opinion and hope that you do mine.

[toshes mate]

@colinwhite

I respect all opinion even if I disagree with it and that is why I thought the thread was interesting enough for me to comment today.  I note Statto's comment above which echoes the sting I felt when I first read your comment.  I thought about not commenting but the thread contains a lot of bile and we know that tends to turn people away from posting.  I am delighted my comment has fostered some reasonable follow up.

I am guilty of believing that Jokanovic was one of the best coaches I have ever seen at FFC.  I mean that in pure professional footballing terms and because I understand that the likes of such coaches do not come along regularly like 'buses and the Khans should never have sacked him in the manner they did with such odious disrespect and disregard for his abilities and his passion to get things right no matter what obstacles were put in his way.   I know we were not doing well but the Khans hardly made things better did they? (rhetorical).  I haven't expected Parker to be up there with Jokanovic and, even if he achieves promotion it will not be like the gold dust Jokanovic brought with him.  Parker will get better, and I hope he does so, and then we can judge him more fairly against the likes of SJ.