Top 5 club managers in England

[BarryP]

Who in your opinion have been the top 5 managers in the history of English football?

[General]

I'd have thought that would've been quite straightforward for the most part Alex Ferguson,  Brian clough, arsene wenger and matt busby don't even get touched by most managers in terms of the UK today. The built history for the clubs they managed time and again unsurpassed.

What'd be a bigger challenge is today who are the best 5 managers across the top two leagues.

[ALG01]

I'd have thought that would've been quite straightforward for the most part Alex Ferguson,  Brian clough, arsene wenger and matt busby don't even get touched by most managers in terms of the UK today. The built history for the clubs they managed time and again unsurpassed.

What'd be a bigger challenge is today who are the best 5 managers across the top two leagues.

He said 5 and you misssed two making six
shanks was obviously one transforming iverpool and turning them from second division nothings to institutional power house, he was the original architect of what they became even if Paisley took some of shank's gory

the second is herbert chapman who undoubtedly matched and surpassed any of the five mentioned before. he won the title 3 times in a row at unfashionable Hufddersfield and then repeated the task at arsenal, and that is a feat nobody is ever likely to repeat.

[Cambridge Pete]

Top Five! Tough can't argue with any of the names listed so far. Whilst he only had one League Championship would have to consider Ramsey for all his achievements.

[filham]

Our own Bobby Robson with his Ipswich and England record must be on the short list.

[Andy S]

I agree about Bobby Robson. For what he did at Ipswich alone but the take into account what he did for England and a very bright star

[fulhamfan]

Herbert Chapman
Matt Busby
Bill Shankly
Brian Clough
Alex Ferguson

[ALG01]

and we have all forgotten sir alf

[Dr Know]

and we have all forgotten sir alf

Bill Shankley and Bob Paisley

[The Rational Fan]

Herbert Chapman
Matt Busby
Bill Shankly
Brian Clough
Alex Ferguson

+1. I think Herbert Chapman is #1 on that list because of his tactics innovation such as WM. Chapman's innovations were so dramatic that field hockey adopted his changes in their sport. Any manager after Chapman is better than any manager before Chapman, because he changed the game that much. Someone told me Bielsa rates Chapman as #1 worldwide, and Bielsa refers to him.

[Spirit of 2000]

If its Clough & Taylor or Revie, Ferguson,  Wenger, Tigana and Hodgson of our own, Paisley, Robson, Cruyff, Busby, Shankly etc all managers who had massive success as they knew how they wanted their sides to play and the type of player that fitted the style and just as importantly,  the character of those players. I genuinely think the DOF vs good manager is flawed. Also managers needed time to build sides whereas head coaches are at clubs a year or two and all change. I don't see that as an upgrade in how clubs are run, so for me bring back proper managers and ditch clueless DOFs.

[Holders]

Robson, Ramsey, Ferguson, Shankley and Clough in no particular order. Honourable mention to Stock, who consistently achieved with unfashionable teams.

[Jim©]

Herbert Chapman
Matt Busby
Bill Shankly
Brian Clough
Alex Ferguson

+1. I think Herbert Chapman is #1 on that list because of his tactics innovation such as WM. Chapman's innovations were so dramatic that field hockey adopted his changes in their sport. Any manager after Chapman is better than any manager before Chapman, because he changed the game that much. Someone told me Bielsa rates Chapman as #1 worldwide, and Bielsa refers to him.

In a similar vein, Hodgson used to allow managers and coaches from all over the world to view his sessions. They were booked a long long time in advance, so unique were his training methods.

[Logicalman]

I guess it depends mostly on your criteria

[Jims Dentist]

If its Clough & Taylor or Revie, Ferguson,  Wenger, Tigana and Hodgson of our own, Paisley, Robson, Cruyff, Busby, Shankly etc all managers who had massive success as they knew how they wanted their sides to play and the type of player that fitted the style and just as importantly,  the character of those players. I genuinely think the DOF vs good manager is flawed. Also managers needed time to build sides whereas head coaches are at clubs a year or two and all change. I don't see that as an upgrade in how clubs are run, so for me bring back proper managers and ditch clueless DOFs.

👍✅

[Statto]

I genuinely think the DOF vs good manager is flawed. Also managers needed time to build sides whereas head coaches are at clubs a year or two and all change. I don't see that as an upgrade in how clubs are run, so for me bring back proper managers and ditch clueless DOFs.

Agree with this but I think the paradigm shift has been beyond clubs' control to some extent. The increased money and pressure for success in today's game has made clubs less loyal to managers, and managers less loyal to their clubs. So that long-term planning now has to take place at another level.

[Spirit of 2000]

I genuinely think the DOF vs good manager is flawed. Also managers needed time to build sides whereas head coaches are at clubs a year or two and all change. I don't see that as an upgrade in how clubs are run, so for me bring back proper managers and ditch clueless DOFs.

Agree with this but I think the paradigm shift has been beyond clubs' control to some extent. The increased money and pressure for success in today's game has made clubs less loyal to managers, and managers less loyal to their clubs. So that long-term planning now has to take place at another level.

Do you think then that a revolutionary new idea may be to revert to the manager role, give them time to build a structure and bring in the players they need to manage and coach. It worked spectacularly well over many decades after all.

[Statto]

I genuinely think the DOF vs good manager is flawed. Also managers needed time to build sides whereas head coaches are at clubs a year or two and all change. I don't see that as an upgrade in how clubs are run, so for me bring back proper managers and ditch clueless DOFs.

Agree with this but I think the paradigm shift has been beyond clubs' control to some extent. The increased money and pressure for success in today's game has made clubs less loyal to managers, and managers less loyal to their clubs. So that long-term planning now has to take place at another level.

Do you think then that a revolutionary new idea may be to revert to the manager role, give them time to build a structure and bring in the players they need to manage and coach. It worked spectacularly well over many decades after all.

You say "give them time" but it's taken me 30 seconds of going through your posts to find this from September:

I reckon he has 2 months. If we're not top 6 by then then a change required

And the additional point I made was that on the rare occasions we've had a successful manager that people like you (and admittedly me) haven't wanted to be sacked after a few months in charge, they've rarely lasted more than a season or two before being taken away from us (by Liverpool and the England national team, for example)

[Spirit of 2000]

Did I say Parker was a good manager or I considered him as someone I want at FFC for 5 years or more? No. Now Jokanovic would have been worth sticking with. I dont rate Parker, he is way too Bracewell meets Wilkins.

[peter w]

Herbert Chapman
Matt Busby
Bill Shankly
Brian Clough
Alex Ferguson

+1. I think Herbert Chapman is #1 on that list because of his tactics innovation such as WM. Chapman's innovations were so dramatic that field hockey adopted his changes in their sport. Any manager after Chapman is better than any manager before Chapman, because he changed the game that much. Someone told me Bielsa rates Chapman as #1 worldwide, and Bielsa refers to him.

A name that i wouldn't expect you to know but which as a Villa fan i revere is jimmy Hogan. Credited with changing the game in England with more emphasis on keeping hold of the ball rather than the kick and rush (to a degree) that the English game still favoured. He started coaching way before he came to Villa, and his ideas weren't accepted at home so he went to Europe where he is also credited with developing the game there. To further highlight his influence on the world game the Mighty Magyars (for those that don't know read your football history books) credit him with their passing game that had revolutionised football, and which further influenced the Ajax system of total football that still ho,lds sway in the top echelons of club football today.

No coach/manager comes close to what Jimmy Hogan has done for football.

As for a pure manager I'd add Ron Saunders for what he achieved in his career before he left villa. I often wonder how Ferguson's legacy would look if he wasn't so lucky as to get a crop of youngsters coming through the youth team, many of whom were not just good enough to break into the first team but were genuine world-class internationals.