Leave to us...

[ChesterTheTabby]

To moan and complain about being five games unbeaten. 7 games played. 4 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses. We lose and draw against the only three teams currently ahead of us (so far, we will see what the final two games of the regular season bring). We've had a good season by securing playoffs, and look fit as a fiddle to finish 3rd or 4th. Can we please, as a community at large (especially on this legendary forum), come together and just enjoy our two final games of the Regular season? Two to go before the playoffs to cheer the lads on: celebrate wins, chuckle at draws, and shrug off losses. We are in for a wild playoff adventure, so let's just kick back and remember that we're all family here - COYW!

[The Rational Fan]

I think the fear is that we need to get up by June 2021 or our parachute payment ends. The fear is ruining my enjoyment because I want Fulham to be competitive in either the Premier League or Championship, and that is at risk long-term.

This season only six clubs in the league had parachute payments making it a good chance for promotion, but next year, between seven and nine clubs will have parachute payments. Also, if we get promoted 19/20 and then relegated 20/21 then the 2021/22 season looks like it maybe another weak season.

History
Only nine clubs have had their parachute payments end and gives an indication of grim days ahead.

Pos   Club                                         Year
1   Wolverhampton Wanderers F.C.   2016-17. (EPL)
2   Blackburn Rovers F.C.   2016-17 (mid-table championship )
3   Reading F.C.   2017-18 (lower-mid table championship)
4   Queens Park Rangers F.C.   2019-20 (lower-mid table championship)
5   Middlesbrough F.C.   2019-20 (lower table championship)
6   Wigan Athletic F.C.   2017-18 (likely relegation next season)
7   Hull City F.C.   2019-20 (likely relegation this season)
8   Sunderland A.F.C.   2020-21 (League One)
9   Bolton Wanderers F.C.   2016-17 (League Two)

Just to think the second most successful club in this season is Blackburn, which is still a massive failure.
Unless promoted by July 2021, five clubs (WBA, Fulham, Cardiff, Swansea, and Stoke) will join this list.

[SuffolkWhite]

To moan and complain about being five games unbeaten. 7 games played. 4 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses. We lose and draw against the only three teams currently ahead of us (so far, we will see what the final two games of the regular season bring). We've had a good season by securing playoffs, and look fit as a fiddle to finish 3rd or 4th. Can we please, as a community at large (especially on this legendary forum), come together and just enjoy our two final games of the Regular season? Two to go before the playoffs to cheer the lads on: celebrate wins, chuckle at draws, and shrug off losses. We are in for a wild playoff adventure, so let's just kick back and remember that we're all family here - COYW!

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[jarv]

Agree. Fulham sitting in top 4. Nothing wrong with that. What will be will be. 049:gif

[bobby01]

Tbh, we keep seeing these little digs at others, often quoted is league position etc. The thing a lot of us are not happy about is the poor standard of football being played. I like many here work bloody hard for my money, if I am going to spend a decent proportion of it watching my team, I want them to be playing to the best of their ability and play a decent standard of football.
I do not believe in spite of results many decent performances this season, that is my complaint. Results are not the be all and end all to me, I remember clapping Thierry Henry off the pitch in a game when he single handily destroyed us. I am not of the opinion like many that playing this style of football will make us much harder to beat if we do get promoted, we will be playing midfielders and strikers of a much higher standard who will pounce on the many mistakes we make by passing for the sake of passing.
It is just my opinion but it makes it no less valid than those who look at the table and think we are doing great.

[RaySmith]

To moan and complain about being five games unbeaten. 7 games played. 4 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses. We lose and draw against the only three teams currently ahead of us (so far, we will see what the final two games of the regular season bring). We've had a good season by securing playoffs, and look fit as a fiddle to finish 3rd or 4th. Can we please, as a community at large (especially on this legendary forum), come together and just enjoy our two final games of the Regular season? Two to go before the playoffs to cheer the lads on: celebrate wins, chuckle at draws, and shrug off losses. We are in for a wild playoff adventure, so let's just kick back and remember that we're all family here - COYW!

0001.jpeg 049:gif

:plus one:

[Sting of the North]

I think this forum is great, and it is about the least negative internet forum I have come across, and the only one I care to actively participate in. Still, it is easy to get fed up with all the negativity from some posters almost no matter what happens. But if you are fed up on that, take a moment to ponder that this is a you problem (directed at no one in particular), not a problem with other posters (given that they keep their behaviour somewhat reasonable). The best two solutions in my opinion is to either just ignore those that constantly complains (if that is not to your liking, otherwise just join them!), or to try to actually put forward counter arguments.

Just don't expect someone to change their opinion just because you believe that your arguments are better. Most people seem to almost never change their opinions, sometimes not even when they are presented with (more or less) indisputable facts that contradict what they are saying. But, on the other hand, it also happens not too rarely that a discussion on here leads to posters finding a common middle ground, or sometimes even changing their opinions altogether.

To just slightly counter the op, I don't think that many posters have moaned or complained about the fact that we are five games unbeaten as such. Many was disappointed with our performance against WBA, many are disappointed with us almost certainly missing out on automatic promotion, and quite a few are disappointed with the way we currently play the game. I can see reason in all those things, but personally try not to dwell on it. I look forward to the playoffs, and think that we are in with a good shout whoever we will play.

[The Rational Fan]

I am not of the opinion like many that playing this style of football will make us much harder to beat if we do get promoted, we will be playing midfielders and strikers of a much higher standard who will pounce on the many mistakes we make by passing for the sake of passing.

I agree with you. All this endless passing will slow down games and stop us conceding because we waste so much of the 90 minutes passing in circles, but unless it results in better final balls the goal scored vs goal conceded ratio remains the same. And, ultimately its goal scored to a goal conceded that gets teams points.

We scored 34 goals in our premier league season, but only one team (Huddersfield in 17/18) has stayed up with less than 31 goals in a season. I believe parker ball may concede fewer goals, but we won't stay up unless we also score more goals. Our Manager has become obsessed with defence, but it's outscoring the other team that wins games, these one-nil victories in the championship will at best be just nil-nil draws in the premier league.

Saying that I hope we win the playoffs to unlock three years of parachute payments, then proceed with a sensible plan to play better football that balances attractive football with pragmatic football in this TV money driven environment.

[filham]

I think this forum is great, and it is about the least negative internet forum I have come across, and the only one I care to actively participate in. Still, it is easy to get fed up with all the negativity from some posters almost no matter what happens. But if you are fed up on that, take a moment to ponder that this is a you problem (directed at no one in particular), not a problem with other posters (given that they keep their behaviour somewhat reasonable). The best two solutions in my opinion is to either just ignore those that constantly complains (if that is not to your liking, otherwise just join them!), or to try to actually put forward counter arguments.

Just don't expect someone to change their opinion just because you believe that your arguments are better. Most people seem to almost never change their opinions, sometimes not even when they are presented with (more or less) indisputable facts that contradict what they are saying. But, on the other hand, it also happens not too rarely that a discussion on here leads to posters finding a common middle ground, or sometimes even changing their opinions altogether.

To just slightly counter the op, I don't think that many posters have moaned or complained about the fact that we are five games unbeaten as such. Many was disappointed with our performance against WBA, many are disappointed with us almost certainly missing out on automatic promotion, and quite a few are disappointed with the way we currently play the game. I can see reason in all those things, but personally try not to dwell on it. I look forward to the playoffs, and think that we are in with a good shout whoever we will play.

Fully agree , it is goals that count and we have to make adjustments to increase the number of goals we score.
Right now we are in the Play Offs and a couple of odd goal victories and a draw could just get us into the premier league, lets get right behind the coach and players and hope that somehow things go our way.

[ChesterTheTabby]

Agree. Fulham sitting in top 4. Nothing wrong with that. What will be will be. 049:gif

Tbh, we keep seeing these little digs at others, often quoted is league position etc. The thing a lot of us are not happy about is the poor standard of football being played. I like many here work bloody hard for my money, if I am going to spend a decent proportion of it watching my team, I want them to be playing to the best of their ability and play a decent standard of football.
I do not believe in spite of results many decent performances this season, that is my complaint. Results are not the be all and end all to me, I remember clapping Thierry Henry off the pitch in a game when he single handily destroyed us. I am not of the opinion like many that playing this style of football will make us much harder to beat if we do get promoted, we will be playing midfielders and strikers of a much higher standard who will pounce on the many mistakes we make by passing for the sake of passing.
It is just my opinion but it makes it no less valid than those who look at the table and think we are doing great.

My fine fellow, I'm not having a dig at anyone, I'm just saying that instead of lambasting and lamenting each defeat, let's be more stoic and accept where we are and enjoy what left we have of the season. What will be, will be! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's wonderful... I just think we need to have more perspective and less hubris. 19 other teams would trade table position, players, and quite possibly manager with us. Up the Fulham, the players, the gaffer, Backroom staff, and supporters!!!

[Mickeyboro]

I can't find this resumed season enjoyable. And to play at Wembley with memories of 2 years ago still fresh would seem surreal.

Football could have stopped and taken stock. Instead we'll be in next season before we know it, with Parker still at the helm. Heaven help us if we somehow got up...

[70sPimlico]

To moan and complain about being five games unbeaten. 7 games played. 4 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses. We lose and draw against the only three teams currently ahead of us (so far, we will see what the final two games of the regular season bring). We've had a good season by securing playoffs, and look fit as a fiddle to finish 3rd or 4th. Can we please, as a community at large (especially on this legendary forum), come together and just enjoy our two final games of the Regular season? Two to go before the playoffs to cheer the lads on: celebrate wins, chuckle at draws, and shrug off losses. We are in for a wild playoff adventure, so let's just kick back and remember that we're all family here - COYW!

I think the majority will. lets face it, It's pretty much the same 4 or 5 posters that jump on many threads that complain. When you go to games, these types are pretty thin on the ground. If you look back to November, some of these same people were talking relegation. It's just their dna.

I guess most feel a bit underwhelmed (I def do) but am pleased we've sorted the defence out and I've just got this little feeling that we're clicking. It may be too late, or it may be perfectly timed. Or, it could be a load of nonsense but def got the play-off excitement rising.

[davew]

I can't find this resumed season enjoyable. And to play at Wembley with memories of 2 years ago still fresh would seem surreal.

Football could have stopped and taken stock. Instead we'll be in next season before we know it, with Parker still at the helm. Heaven help us if we somehow got up...

+1, but don´t worry we won´t!!

[ByTheRiver]

I've let a few of these type of posts go so I'll bite this time. Expectations are relative - we have spent far and away the most in the league, we have by far and away the highest wage bill in the league, we shouldn't be struggling away in 4th playing the most painful to watch football since the Bracewell days.

Humour me for a moment...

Imagine Man City or Real Madrid joined the championship next year and retained the same squads. Would 4th be a good position for them? Why not? But what if that meant they were still in the play offs and were unbeaten in five with four clean sheets?

On the flip side, if Surbition joined the championship next year, keeeping their same squad and wage bill, struggled all season, taking some heavy defeats, but just stayed up on the last day of the season. Good or bad season?

In the hypothetical situations above, who had the better season in the championship, Man City/Real Madrid or Surbition? Why?

It's all relative.

[ChesterTheTabby]

I've let a few of these type of posts go so I'll bite this time. Expectations are relative - we have spent far and away the most in the league, we have by far and away the highest wage bill in the league, we shouldn't be struggling away in 4th playing the most painful to watch football since the Bracewell days.

Humour me for a moment...

Imagine Man City or Real Madrid joined the championship next year and retained the same squads. Would 4th be a good position for them? Why not? But what if that meant they were still in the play offs and were unbeaten in five with four clean sheets?

On the flip side, if Surbition joined the championship next year, keeeping their same squad and wage bill, struggled all season, taking some heavy defeats, but just stayed up on the last day of the season. Good or bad season?

In the hypothetical situations above, who had the better season in the championship, Man City/Real Madrid or Surbition? Why?

It's all relative.

And I will return the bite... the comparison is nonsensical, and only in a nonsensical hypothetical context could such an unrealistic comparison be made, which therefore, makes it null and void. Manchester City, with their current squad, in the Championship, struggling in 4th? Well then, if it's all relative, we'd be in League One would we not? Perhaps even League 2 based on Real Madrid's entrance from Spain into England and an intercontinental league transfer. Are you really trying to compare the likes of Cairney and Ream to David Silva and De Bruyne?

The comparison is humorous, so I'll humor you, but we're talking national and continental Champions... not the plucky little SW6 Fulham who have never won a tournament trophy.

In fact, what a wonderful discussion to form a textual bridge for exactly what it is I am saying - we're Fulham, not Manchester City or Real Madrid, and yet this forum seems to implode as if the expectations were as such, it is truly remarkable. I am happy to say that we are a smaller, family club with a descent manager and players who care. They aren't the David Silva, Raheem Sterling, or De Bruyne of the world, but they're OUR players. I support all of them in their entirety, even down to the Fotheringham's that join because they are OUR players, even in their transience. 4th place, Playoffs secured, and I am riding high. It's a great place to be - come join me won't ye?

[The Rational Fan]

I think many peoples opinion is overly shaped by what the media wants to focus on, for example i) last year it was FFC spent £100m on promotion but failed, and ii) this year it's a young English manager turns around a poor team when most teams that do as badly as Fulham in the EPL finish mid-table has a shocker? 100% accurate but not full story

An alternative spin on the truth, that is also 100% truthful and not the full story, is i) last year Fulham spent £80m plus bringing Mitrovic back compared to Brighton spending £80m with Brighton finishing 10 points ahead because it is so hard for a promoted team to adjust to the EPL, and ii) this year Fulham spending triple what has Forest on wages and amortization, with Fulham only finishing 7 points ahead because of poor investment and coaching.

The media shapes a lot of expectations, no one seems to be calling out Aston Villa this season as much as Fulham last season, because everyone is sick of the "I cannot believe a club spent £100m and got relegated". Getting back to Fulham, given some of us expected automatic promotion this season and others thought most relegated teams end up short of the playoffs, a position of 4th divides everyone on the question of did we underperform or overperform.

My position is Parker coming 4th has neither proven or disproven himself as a manager, he hit par. Many managers would have done worse and a few better. He has five games to go and now is the time for a birdie or two.

[ChesterTheTabby]

I think many peoples opinion is overly shaped by what the media wants to focus on, for example i) last year it was FFC spent £100m on promotion but failed, and ii) this year it's a young English manager turns around a poor team when most teams that do as badly as Fulham in the EPL finish mid-table has a shocker? 100% accurate but not full story

An alternative spin on the truth, that is also 100% truthful and not the full story, is i) last year Fulham spent £80m plus bringing Mitrovic back compared to Brighton spending £80m with Brighton finishing 10 points ahead because it is so hard for a promoted team to adjust to the EPL, and ii) this year Fulham spending triple what has Forest on wages and amortization, with Fulham only finishing 7 points ahead because of poor investment and coaching.

The media shapes a lot of expectations, no one seems to be calling out Aston Villa this season as much as Fulham last season, because everyone is sick of the "I cannot believe a club spent £100m and got relegated". Getting back to Fulham, given some of us expected automatic promotion this season and others thought most relegated teams end up short of the playoffs, a position of 4th divides everyone on the question of did we underperform or overperform.

My position is Parker coming 4th has neither proven or disproven himself as a manager, he hit par. Many managers would have done worse and a few better. He has five games to go and now is the time for a birdie or two.

Absolutely, fair play and great commentary.

[ByTheRiver]

I've let a few of these type of posts go so I'll bite this time. Expectations are relative - we have spent far and away the most in the league, we have by far and away the highest wage bill in the league, we shouldn't be struggling away in 4th playing the most painful to watch football since the Bracewell days.

Humour me for a moment...

Imagine Man City or Real Madrid joined the championship next year and retained the same squads. Would 4th be a good position for them? Why not? But what if that meant they were still in the play offs and were unbeaten in five with four clean sheets?

On the flip side, if Surbition joined the championship next year, keeeping their same squad and wage bill, struggled all season, taking some heavy defeats, but just stayed up on the last day of the season. Good or bad season?

In the hypothetical situations above, who had the better season in the championship, Man City/Real Madrid or Surbition? Why?

It's all relative.

And I will return the bite... the comparison is nonsensical, and only in a nonsensical hypothetical context could such an unrealistic comparison be made, which therefore, makes it null and void. Manchester City, with their current squad, in the Championship, struggling in 4th? Well then, if it's all relative, we'd be in League One would we not? Perhaps even League 2 based on Real Madrid's entrance from Spain into England and an intercontinental league transfer. Are you really trying to compare the likes of Cairney and Ream to David Silva and De Bruyne?

The comparison is humorous, so I'll humor you, but we're talking national and continental Champions... not the plucky little SW6 Fulham who have never won a tournament trophy.

In fact, what a wonderful discussion to form a textual bridge for exactly what it is I am saying - we're Fulham, not Manchester City or Real Madrid, and yet this forum seems to implode as if the expectations were as such, it is truly remarkable. I am happy to say that we are a smaller, family club with a descent manager and players who care. They aren't the David Silva, Raheem Sterling, or De Bruyne of the world, but they're OUR players. I support all of them in their entirety, even down to the Fotheringham's that join because they are OUR players, even in their transience. 4th place, Playoffs secured, and I am riding high. It's a great place to be - come join me won't ye?

Oh dear. It seems I credited folk with something they don't possess...


Our wage bill and value of players is twice that the next nearest in the league. You could add the top two together and we'd still be higher than them combined. We not only have the highest paid player in the league, we have the top 5 highest players in the league! So, yes, in that sense, we very much are (this season) the Man City/Real Madrid of the Championship and with that, as Scott Parker will soon find out should he not be promoted, expectations are raised.

I am well aware of the history of Fulham. I would wager than I have rattled around on near empty terracing during the dark days before you were even born. My expectations in those days were different - I'd have been happy with one win in 5! Geddit? Things change. Quickly too. If we were talking about the Fulham of even relatively recent years when we were first relegated and had players such as Burgess, Pringle, Fotheringham, etc, I would have been startled at being 4th and wanting a statue of Scott Parker put outside the ground. That's the difference. All managers want great players and to be backed by owners but the downside is, with that backing comes expectation.

If you look at all the major European leagues, you will see that in almost all cases, a table of the annual wage bills mirrors the actual table. Sad but true (and widely known throughout football). Other than a few cases of over/underperformance which are then glaring. So, let's say to keep it simple, Leicester when they won the title. Why was that a shock? They had good players (Vardy, Kante, Mahrez, etc)? Why was it being tagged as the greatest sporting achievement ever? The performance of the club against the financial clout and wage bills of several other clubs.

Man Utd most seasons post-Ferguson seen as underperformance. They've still qualified for Europe most of the time. There are some huge clubs and competition so why do they have a divine right to Champions League football? Why are managers sacked and seen as failed if they have got them into the Europa places? Expectation based on resources given.

The problem is the fans who can't seem to grasp that, this season at least, we are not little old loveable Fulham. We are a team with Premiership resources (this year was basically a 'cheat mode' year against the resources of the opposition) failing to meet expectations.

You can't criticise fans that have eyes because they are not happy to bury their heads in the sand (and inadvertently usher in an era of budgets that mean a return to Pringle, Fotheringham, et all). They don't 'love the club' any less than the happy clappers, I'd go as far to say the opposite!

Make sense now?

[Statto]

And I will return the bite... the comparison is nonsensical, and only in a nonsensical hypothetical context could such an unrealistic comparison be made, which therefore, makes it null and void. Manchester City, with their current squad, in the Championship, struggling in 4th? Well then, if it's all relative, we'd be in League One would we not? Perhaps even League 2 based on Real Madrid's entrance from Spain into England and an intercontinental league transfer. Are you really trying to compare the likes of Cairney and Ream to David Silva and De Bruyne?

The comparison is humorous, so I'll humor you, but we're talking national and continental Champions... not the plucky little SW6 Fulham who have never won a tournament trophy.

In fact, what a wonderful discussion to form a textual bridge for exactly what it is I am saying - we're Fulham, not Manchester City or Real Madrid, and yet this forum seems to implode as if the expectations were as such, it is truly remarkable. I am happy to say that we are a smaller, family club with a descent manager and players who care. They aren't the David Silva, Raheem Sterling, or De Bruyne of the world, but they're OUR players. I support all of them in their entirety, even down to the Fotheringham's that join because they are OUR players, even in their transience. 4th place, Playoffs secured, and I am riding high. It's a great place to be - come join me won't ye?

Just have to weigh in to say briefly that this reply has epically missed BTR's point. So much so that it's embarrassing. And it wasn't a complex or poorly-articulated point to grasp. Counter-arguments were available, but this is not one of them.

[f bloke]

I agree with the general thrust of the points being made by BTR. Success has to judged in part by where you end up as compared to where you started. His examples are perhaps too extreme but that does not necessarily undermine the point he is making. if say Charlton or Barnsley were in our position right now that would be seen by their fans as a huge over achievement and something to be proud of.

If Man City had failed to achieve a Champions league slot this season, that would have been seen as a failure. Fulham failing to get auto promotion is not a failure of the size of that Man C failure but it is a sub par achievement given the usual correlation between expenditure and success.

My problem at the moment is that after 50 plus years, my support is no longer wholly unconditional. I have been following us more than long enough to know and understand that the lot of fans of clubs our size is one largely of frustration and disappointment.  Relegation seasons are always difficult but otherwise even in average seasons there have been enough good performances that provide that buzz of excitement and a high on leaving the ground that you try to hold onto for as long as possible by coming on forums such as this or by watching and rewatching the goals and performance.

The only buzz I have had this season on leaving the ground was the Millwall game. We have had decent 20 minute spells here and there but few and far in between. We have turned into one nil to the Arsenal - get ahead and then close the game down - job done, professional performance. You can't argue with the stats, but the thing is I don't want to watch that if that is the default setting. If that is the way it is going to be, then I will simply tune into the results at the end of the game and watch the highlights if the result is the right result.

Our performance in the second half of the Tigana season were not as dominant or exciting as those in the first half and even under Slavs 23 game run we had to tough out a few wins and draws, but the mindset and approach was always positive even if the performances were not.

Under Parker, like under Bracewell, the mindset is cautious/negative and the football is consistently dull. Football matches are often dull but when the mindset and tactical approach is right, you don't always know in advance that the match will be dull. Right now however, we do know in advance that it will be. Which is why I am no longer watching every match and those I do watch, I am watching with increasing indifference. Which is a shame and is one of the many reasons why I am not a fan of Parker