Our spine

[JEEVES]

This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.

It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.

Am I the only person who never wanted Norwood to stay? Very happy for him doing well with Sheffield United. If he signed for us tomorrow along with harrison Reed and Aguissa came back. I wouldn't be dissapointed.. but he's definitely not getting in my starting lineup. Sheffield united have a championship squad but a very good manager. There is very few if not any players from their squad I would want us to sign and that includes Ollie Norwood.

[Tabby]

we are only one CB short of a terrific spine.

Methinks we need much more than that to rate terrific.  Much more needed for back four.  Absolutely one prem quality CB, if not two!  Still need some midfield help with prem quality.  As much as we all like TC, and I do, still not sold he is prem quality tbh.  And we need another attacker/striker/winger to bolster the offense.  Those are just minimum gets.  Probably need at least 4-6 new players, all prem or near prem quality.

Edit.....Speaking of spine strength, can anyone tell me what the status and outlook would be for Kongolo?  Does he rate as prem or near prem quality?  I assume he is still in the team.

Kongolo went back to Huddersfield after he got injured. Not sure if he is back in full training yet.

[fulhamben]

This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.

It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.

Am I the only person who never wanted Norwood to stay? Very happy for him doing well with Sheffield United. If he signed for us tomorrow along with harrison Reed and Aguissa came back. I wouldn't be dissapointed.. but he's definitely not getting in my starting lineup. Sheffield united have a championship squad but a very good manager. There is very few if not any players from their squad I would want us to sign and that includes Ollie Norwood.

im with you, he was very average for us and just a bench boy. He has done well for himself but I wouldn't want him in my team

[JEEVES]

This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.

It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.

Am I the only person who never wanted Norwood to stay? Very happy for him doing well with Sheffield United. If he signed for us tomorrow along with harrison Reed and Aguissa came back. I wouldn't be dissapointed.. but he's definitely not getting in my starting lineup. Sheffield united have a championship squad but a very good manager. There is very few if not any players from their squad I would want us to sign and that includes Ollie Norwood.

im with you, he was very average for us and just a bench boy. He has done well for himself but I wouldn't want him in my team

Thank you mate. Cos I know there's a lot that will disagree. The amount of people bringing him up on here recently reminds me of the constant mention of dempsey and dembele when we lost them. There's no comparison. He's had a great season and he's overperformed like all of his colleagues have.. wasn't fussed when he left us, and I wouldn't want him back.

[70sPimlico]

Without meaning to be critical of players who've been heroes for us recently, IMO most of those names will need to be bang in form and/or up their game slightly just to get into the starting XI of a team that's going to finish higher than 18th in the PL

Rodak - OK, particularly given he should continue to improve this season

Hector - again OK, but he'll look bang average in the PL and needs a partner at least as good as he is

Onomah - not sure, at best he'll look bang average on a good day. Nowhere near good enough on a bad day. But his bad days do seem to be behind him now, and again, a relative youngster, so will hopefully continue to step up his game this season

Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him after we went down. If we can get some proper quality around him (eg Anguissa and a £30m winger) we may get by with Cairney but we can't rely on him to be our primary creative force at this level IMO

Hmmm, I think it's a bit different this time around for TC. Last time our CB partnership was weak and we didn't have a strong defensive midfielder. With Hector +1 and Reed (I did say depending on signing Reed), then TC won't be in a team that is constantly under pressure of being overwhelmed. I'd expect to see a different TC in those circumstances but if not then fair enough, I'm over optimistic.

With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.

[WindyCity]

Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him

With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.

""With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.""

Not exactly a ringing endorsement........

[Motspur Park]

Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him

With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.

""With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.""

Not exactly a ringing endorsement........

I agree with Pimlico.... If he has players making runs Tom will pick them out and you will see his class. When there is a lack of options, Tom has to turn around and look for different options. Many fans were critical of Parker playing for Fulham but it was the same with him. If there was nothing on, he'd do a 180 before spinning and starting over again.

[The Rational Fan]

Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him

With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.

""With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.""

Not exactly a ringing endorsement........

Cairney is brilliant when the team works around him, running into space and so he just can to land the pass.

When Cairney has the ball, other players need to be:
          Sessegnon Mitro  Kamara
Taggett               Stefjo           Fredricks
                         Cairney
           Ream       KMac         Odoi
                           Betts

When the opposition have the ball, other players need to be:
                         Mitro 
                         Cairney       
    Sessegnon      Stefjo        Kamara           
                          KMac     
Taggett        Ream     Odoi     Fredricks
                           Betts

Otherwise, he is not a brilliant player but still ok.

Ream, KMac, Cairney, and Mitro need super mobile players around them.
Fredericks, Odoi, Sessegnon, Stefjo and Kamara are super mobile players.

[Denver Fulham]

Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.

[The Rational Fan]

Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.

Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB,  LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then. 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.

Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB,  LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then. 

Fabri, Anguissa and Seri back are you kidding me, they are not the Cavalry coming over the hill to rescue us, they are the relegation fodder and will be heading in opposite direction again away from the fight.

[Twig]

Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.

Completely disagree with your assessment of our spine and in case you don't understand the concept, can I point out that a LB is not even part of the spine.

[Sting of the North]

Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.

Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB,  LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then.

Neither Rodak or Hector is in any way proven in the top flight. There have been so many players failing to take the step up. I'll give you that Mitro has at least proved to be a decent PL striker, but the other two have yet to prove that they belong at that level. The same goes for Reed, who has only ever been a bit part player at PL level before.

[toshes mate]

Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.

Although I am more optimistic about our 'spine' working better this time around I do agree that it is far from perfect.   Rodak needs to work harder on distribution since giving the ball away has been our downfall in Championship games already and it'll be worse in the PL.  The CB pairing doesn't look pacey enough to me and just how to remedy that is perplexing because Ream is not getting any younger, and can read the game faster than he can move.  Both flanks have issues and the central midfield falters when those issues have been magnified by Championship sides exploiting weaknesses.  I think Parker has to have a solid defence first and foremost but I include the full backs and midfield links in making it even tougher than it has been to date.  If that breaches the definition of having a spine then so be it, but football needs more than nominal players in nominal positions.   The whole needs to function as a team unit.

By all accounts Sheffield United over achieved via a good coach and so surely we can do so too.  Parker is on the right route and he just needs some judicious signings to plug the gaps in the squad and the spine.  Let's hope he gets the players he wants and needs. 

[The Rational Fan]

Without meaning to be critical of players who've been heroes for us recently, IMO most of those names will need to be bang in form and/or up their game slightly just to get into the starting XI of a team that's going to finish higher than 18th in the PL

Rodak - OK, particularly given he should continue to improve this season

Hector - again OK, but he'll look bang average in the PL and needs a partner at least as good as he is

Onomah - not sure, at best he'll look bang average on a good day. Nowhere near good enough on a bad day. But his bad days do seem to be behind him now, and again, a relative youngster, so will hopefully continue to step up his game this season

Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him after we went down. If we can get some proper quality around him (eg Anguissa and a £30m winger) we may get by with Cairney but we can't rely on him to be our primary creative force at this level IMO

We talk as if Tony Khan messed everything up by getting the wrong players and that's the only reason we got relegated, but that is much less than half the story.

The first half of the story is the spine we bought up from the Championship Betts, Odoi, Ream, KMac, Stefjo, Cairney, and Mitro was hopelessly inadequate, I see little reason that Rodak, Hector, Ream, Reed, Cairney, Onamah and Mitro will be much better. So, we need new talent.

The second half of the story is the talent we bought into the club that season such as Fabri, Seri, and Anguissa was dominating their leagues, but as soon as they arrived in the premier league they went from world beaters to very average players. If you think a great championship player makes a quality premier league player, then you shouldn't criticize Tony Khan for thinking great Ligue Un players make great Premier League players too.

I rate Rodak and think he is a top keeper. Hector is the best center-back we have had in a while but he is far from a world beater, we need an equally good addition to stand a chance of staying up, but ideally, we want a significantly better center back than him alongside Hector in the premier league. Reed, Onamah, and Cairney didn't convince me before lockdown, then after lockdown there were a few weak performances Brentford, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, and Cardiff.

We need a new LCB, then bring Anguissa and Seri back so that hopefull with Rodak, Onamah and Mitro we have a spine that can come 17th in the EPL.

[Denver Fulham]

Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.

Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB,  LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then. 

You literally just reiterated my point by saying if we add all of that to our current spine, we could be 18th at winter.

We just have to be honest about what we have. I love Mitro, but I think he scored once in the second half of the Prem season. He's easily marshaled by better PL defenses because of his lack of pace and gets starved of service. Rodak could be anything — everyone was eager to give Betts the shirt last time up and he was totally overmatched at this level. Hector looks fine but needs a partner who can move quicker than he does. Cairney was also a nonfactor last time up and is two years older now. We need help.

[The Rational Fan]

Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.

Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB,  LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then. 

You literally just reiterated my point by saying if we add all of that to our current spine, we could be 18th at winter.

We just have to be honest about what we have. I love Mitro, but I think he scored once in the second half of the Prem season. He's easily marshaled by better PL defenses because of his lack of pace and gets starved of service. Rodak could be anything — everyone was eager to give Betts the shirt last time up and he was totally overmatched at this level. Hector looks fine but needs a partner who can move quicker than he does. Cairney was also a nonfactor last time up and is two years older now. We need help.

My point about being 18th by the winter transfer window (1st Jan 2021) is provided we don't spend much in the summer, we can really boost the squad for the second half of the season to stay up and/or better prepare for the championship next season if situation is hopeless.

We didn't have enough money in 2018/19 to buy a squad that can stay up, and we cannot buy a squad to stay up now. Hopefully, we can add some quality and depth to the squad, but team work and cohesion is the only thing that can beat existing premier league teams with  more ££££ than us.

[toshes mate]

We talk as if Tony Khan messed everything up by getting the wrong players and that's the only reason we got relegated, but that is much less than half the story.

That depends upon which version of the facts you wish to be the body of your plot.  The ending is the same in all cases regardless i.e. relegation, a mortally wounded promotion squad, two discarded managers, more self inflicted wounds, a lot of wasted time, and a joint owner faffing around that is wasn't his fault ... and then there were the signings of which Anguissa was described 'as one for the future' (TK the master of crystal ball technology) whilst Seri appeared to sulk in a corner because his former club appeared to have misinformed him.  Sessegnon was told he needed to grow up.  Meanwhile Kamara had been dispatched to 'Siberia' (for all he cared) for daring to want to complain that something was wrong in Motspur Park under Ranieri ... which one of these bits of the story would you wish to be changed so that TK can be held in better light?

It has taken a year to get over the worse of that history and I am not particularly keen on having any of it rewritten for convenience sake of one of our joint owners.