Relegation - it's no disaster

[colinwhite]

You've been listening to Parker's rhetoric, Colin, as you are at liberty to do.  I have been watching the football, the same games as you watch, without listening to anybody but just allowing my brain to come to an opinion.  You have your views which you believe are right.  The players who have shown fight are your opinion not fact.  I have the same affliction and so please don't start a discussion that is going nowhere.  The evidence is in the fact that if we don't win today then we are almost certainly down.

Firstly Tosh I respect your opinion although I dont agree with it. But you have no idea what i have or havent listened to have you?  As for you watching games objectively I could argue that you are driven by your own bias ! But I wouldnt do that because i dont know what your own bias is or isnt  now do I ?

Gobbledegook.  It is YOUR opinion no matter how you got there, just as MINE is mine.  If you didn't/don't listen to Parker then you haven't missed anything have you? (rhetorical)

Well let me put it more plainly. Dont make assertions about other peoples thinking or argument when in a debate. One of the dirty tricks of argument when your case lacks substance.

[Fulham 442]

At the beginning of the season our aim was to have a good fight for survival.

This has been achieved.

Being relegated this season was always the most probable outcome so why do we all seem so hard done by? And blaming people for the relegation? We were always gonna be around this position and to me we've been a success. We've given it one hell of a go and we're technically still in with a shout this late in the season.

Relegation isnt a disaster, we have a large group of players returning, our teams spine is still here and under contract. Theres nothing to worry about. We tried and we failed, time to dust off and fight for another chance, which looks very possible

No it wasn't. It was to stay up. Fulham (not we) have failed that again.

Exactly this.  We would all have been more than happy with 17th this season and then try and build on that for next.    Relegation means we will lose half of the team, get our unwanted loanees back and try and start all over again.  I can't see us posing a serious promotion challenge next season unless our recruitment improves.  As I have repeatedly said we need to come up with a Premier League team already in place, like with did under Tigana not try and get players in when the season has already started.  Those first few games with our old creaky defence seriously cost us.

[toshes mate]

You've been listening to Parker's rhetoric, Colin, as you are at liberty to do.  I have been watching the football, the same games as you watch, without listening to anybody but just allowing my brain to come to an opinion.  You have your views which you believe are right.  The players who have shown fight are your opinion not fact.  I have the same affliction and so please don't start a discussion that is going nowhere.  The evidence is in the fact that if we don't win today then we are almost certainly down.

Firstly Tosh I respect your opinion although I dont agree with it. But you have no idea what i have or havent listened to have you?  As for you watching games objectively I could argue that you are driven by your own bias ! But I wouldnt do that because i dont know what your own bias is or isnt  now do I ?

Gobbledegook.  It is YOUR opinion no matter how you got there, just as MINE is mine.  If you didn't/don't listen to Parker then you haven't missed anything have you? (rhetorical)

Well let me put it more plainly. Dont make assertions about other peoples thinking or argument when in a debate. One of the dirty tricks of argument when your case lacks substance.

Pot calling kettle black, Colin.  Look back to your original response to my post which wasn't even directed at you and see what you 'assumed' about me.

[colinwhite]

Explain what you mean Tosh !

[toshes mate]

It's self explanatory - you accuse me of something you yourself are guilty of.  Work it out for yourself.

[colinwhite]

I havent accused you of anything. I simply pointed out your attempt to  categorise my view by stating something (you have been watching the rhetoric ) that you clearly had no idea wether I had been doing or not, was not the way to conduct a debate. I find no instance when I have used this ploy on you.

[toshes mate]

Then that is your loss, Colin.  You made a very clear assumption and used it as a point of argument.  If you have read your comment and still cannot see the accusation you levelled not just at me but anyone else reading it then you must be the one who cannot see.

[colinwhite]

Then that is your loss, Colin.  You made a very clear assumption and used it as a point of argument.  If you have read your comment and still cannot see the accusation you levelled not just at me but anyone else reading it then you must be the one who cannot see.

Feel free to quote the one you mean and perhaps I can learn something .

[Willham]

At the beginning of the season our aim was to have a good fight for survival.

This has been achieved.

Being relegated this season was always the most probable outcome so why do we all seem so hard done by? And blaming people for the relegation? We were always gonna be around this position and to me we've been a success. We've given it one hell of a go and we're technically still in with a shout this late in the season.

Relegation isnt a disaster, we have a large group of players returning, our teams spine is still here and under contract. Theres nothing to worry about. We tried and we failed, time to dust off and fight for another chance, which looks very possible

Is that you, Tony ??

If I was a bad person and a conspiracy theorist I would agree with you because the statement certainly reads like a club PR excuse that you might hear in one of TKs childish videos. It reads like a naughty scoolchild offering an excuse for the inexcusable.

Most of what was written in the OP is no more than an excuse for failure. The problem for me is that whilst a new team will always be more likely to struggle than not (a few exceptions over the years) we were in a position to finish higher, we could have survived. However, and I hate to keep repeating it but it remains true, the DoF sabotaged Parker this seasonbecause of his abject failure in January. I heard the excuses why it was difficult to get forwards, but that is his sole job here and he failed. If we had a proper squad, with a forward line capable of scoring a handful more goals, we would have comfortably survived.

Oh, and yes, relegation is a very big disaster because we have to hope mr khan Jnr has the first idea about how to re build a squad because the players we have will no longer do. we need to start again.

Is it strange that I'm kinda proud you almost believe I'm TK? Haha

A few have said we're gonna have a rebuild on our hands for next season, well we have plenty of players capable in the championship so it wont be a massive rebuild and on top of that TK has shown once before he can build a side very capable of getting out the championship, he was here when jokanovic built a side that looked like it was going to do well in the prem. It didnt but we all believed it would I'm not worried about us rebuilding in the championship, were happy to spend more money than most championship clubs and weve got a great set of players already under contract to build upon.

[toshes mate]

Then that is your loss, Colin.  You made a very clear assumption and used it as a point of argument.  If you have read your comment and still cannot see the accusation you levelled not just at me but anyone else reading it then you must be the one who cannot see.

Feel free to quote the one you mean and perhaps I can learn something .

I already have told you that - it was your first response to my post not directed at you.  You make a blanket assumption.

[ALG01]

At the beginning of the season our aim was to have a good fight for survival.

This has been achieved.

Being relegated this season was always the most probable outcome so why do we all seem so hard done by? And blaming people for the relegation? We were always gonna be around this position and to me we've been a success. We've given it one hell of a go and we're technically still in with a shout this late in the season.

Relegation isnt a disaster, we have a large group of players returning, our teams spine is still here and under contract. Theres nothing to worry about. We tried and we failed, time to dust off and fight for another chance, which looks very possible

Is that you, Tony ??

If I was a bad person and a conspiracy theorist I would agree with you because the statement certainly reads like a club PR excuse that you might hear in one of TKs childish videos. It reads like a naughty scoolchild offering an excuse for the inexcusable.

Most of what was written in the OP is no more than an excuse for failure. The problem for me is that whilst a new team will always be more likely to struggle than not (a few exceptions over the years) we were in a position to finish higher, we could have survived. However, and I hate to keep repeating it but it remains true, the DoF sabotaged Parker this seasonbecause of his abject failure in January. I heard the excuses why it was difficult to get forwards, but that is his sole job here and he failed. If we had a proper squad, with a forward line capable of scoring a handful more goals, we would have comfortably survived.

Oh, and yes, relegation is a very big disaster because we have to hope mr khan Jnr has the first idea about how to re build a squad because the players we have will no longer do. we need to start again.

Is it strange that I'm kinda proud you almost believe I'm TK? Haha

A few have said we're gonna have a rebuild on our hands for next season, well we have plenty of players capable in the championship so it wont be a massive rebuild and on top of that TK has shown once before he can build a side very capable of getting out the championship, he was here when jokanovic built a side that looked like it was going to do well in the prem. It didnt but we all believed it would I'm not worried about us rebuilding in the championship, were happy to spend more money than most championship clubs and weve got a great set of players already under contract to build upon.

we haven't got a great set of players.
i don't know how how many years you have supported or where you sit/stand in the ground.
but anyone who has seen as many years as number of usknow the squad is the big problem.
when the loanees leave we are left with a squad that was at the end of its natural life when we came out and we remain without a forward line as we did last season..we had mitro and that was it.

you certainly do post in the style of the club propoganda machine.

i do not think tony posts here, why would he? he likes to insults long term money paying supporters on twitter.

[Willham]

I havent quoted to avoid the long line of previous posts but this is a direct reply to the above.

You mention all the loanees leaving at the end of the season and while yes that's kinda worrying but we have just as many returning, at RBS we have noth Christie and sessegnon returning, both can do a good job there in the championship, we have johanovic who's doing amazingly at QPR wholl return for the cm position, we have cairney about to return and up front we have mitrovic who smashes em in the championship.

I'm not worried about the team for this year, we have almost a carbon copy of the team that got us promoted last year. If we sell some of these players like anguissa etc. Then we'll bring in a little bit of money to reinvest to make us in for a better shout.

I'll repeat again, I really dont think it's a disaster or that a rebuild is on the cards.

I do understand the worry mitrovic might leave because of his treatment this year. If he was to leave that's a very big hole to fill. To lose 20+ championship goals will be a hard pill to swallow

And thank you for saying my posts are somewhat professional, I guess it's the only place I've ever been said to be "professional" hahahaha

[ALG01]

I havent quoted to avoid the long line of previous posts but this is a direct reply to the above.

You mention all the loanees leaving at the end of the season and while yes that's kinda worrying but we have just as many returning, at RBS we have noth Christie and sessegnon returning, both can do a good job there in the championship, we have johanovic who's doing amazingly at QPR wholl return for the cm position, we have cairney about to return and up front we have mitrovic who smashes em in the championship.

I'm not worried about the team for this year, we have almost a carbon copy of the team that got us promoted last year. If we sell some of these players like anguissa etc. Then we'll bring in a little bit of money to reinvest to make us in for a better shout.

I'll repeat again, I really dont think it's a disaster or that a rebuild is on the cards.

I do understand the worry mitrovic might leave because of his treatment this year. If he was to leave that's a very big hole to fill. To lose 20+ championship goals will be a hard pill to swallow

And thank you for saying my posts are somewhat professional, I guess it's the only place I've ever been said to be "professional" hahahaha

we fluked promotion, the squad was not good enough then and the players really not good enough. i am not sure you how you are assesing things. sess is not his brother, christie was out of his depth, mitro was our only forward, johanson? wasn't tall that for us.

i am happy to send you a testemonial for a job application. you at least argue your case properly and that makes a refreshing change from many of the others on this MB. many with a difference of opinion decend to insult ( i try not to but you shoukld see the messages i delete before i press send for proper vitriol).

I hope you are right but i cannot see it.

[Willham]

Johansen yes, sorry I think my brain melted together with jokanovic hahahaha.

And I agree we somewhat flunked promotion, and I say somewhat because I agree we were not quite ready for the prem but we did deserve to win promotion last year. We played some nice football  I remember the news likening us to man city a lot, which to get such good compliments is credit to SP. He played a different kind of game then most teams in the championship and while it seemed to get in the way against some smaller clubs we were very consistent and earnt the right to be in the play off final and then we earnt the right to beat brentford, courtesy of some incredible tactical awareness of SP.

And I also try to avoid insulting or specifically telling someone their opion is wrong so I thank you for the same. The major thing for me is I feel people are forgetting the good  SP and TK have done, to get us a chance of premier league last year was an incredible feat and I still feel this year hasn't been a major failure amidst a global pandemic and as you said a team that was not ready for premier league football. I think SP did an incredible job getting this team promoted because as you said we werent good enough and I do agree with that completely but I feel it just shows hhow good SP did

[Willham]

And also you asked how long I've supported and been to games, I go to as many games I can, but honestly live in hull so dont go to every game. I try to watch every single match for the full 90 but sometimes work only allows me to watch highlights and I'll be honest again sometimes when weve lost I'll specifically watch the highlights and not the full match to avoid frustrations. So that is a valid point I'll take under account, I am not a football pundit and I'm not 100% in touch with the whole outlook of the team. But I do try and read as much as I can and take into account everything I can.

[Twig]

FWIW I do think we face quite a rebuild at season end. Obviously every loanee will leave and two or three others may seek transfers e.g. Zambo, Mitro, Bryan, Seri?
Yes we have TC coming back from injury but we have no idea how well his knee will hold up to another season in the Champ.
Yes we have a few of our players potentially returning from loan; Christie, Knock, StefJo, Sess, AK, Betts, MLM, Kebano etc. But how many bring the necessary quality? Perhaps 2 or 3.
Looks like a thin squad to me and if TK tries to pad it out with too many loans yet again....well I despair.

[Willham]

FWIW I do think we face quite a rebuild at season end. Obviously every loanee will leave and two or three others may seek transfers e.g. Zambo, Mitro, Bryan, Seri?
Yes we have TC coming back from injury but we have no idea how well his knee will hold up to another season in the Champ.
Yes we have a few of our players potentially returning from loan; Christie, Knock, StefJo, Sess, AK, Betts, MLM, Kebano etc. But how many bring the necessary quality? Perhaps 2 or 3.
Looks like a thin squad to me and if TK tries to pad it out with too many loans yet again....well I despair.

Well we're down to the opinion part, from the names you've just said to me I see a healthy championship challenging team whereas clearly you think otherwise.

I see Christie doing his job at RB
Knock, kabano and ak doing their job at LF/RF
MLM looks like decent back up in the champ for CB
Sess is a good back up and if not pushing Christie for RB
Stefjo has been amazing at QPR this year and he can fill a great creative hole, something we see missing in our midfield right now.
And Betts will be pushing Marek Ro as always. Which is fine by me, both are easily enough for championship.

I do digress if mitrovic asks to leave then we need to find a miracle replacement.
Or I'd say we'd need a good striker and another good goalscoring winger.
Knock and Kebano arent good enough without mitrovic.

This season is total evidence of that

[Whitestone]

Knocky, Christie, Ream, Odoi, Le Marchand Betts and Kamara will be nothing more than squad players next season. Ideally they'll be moved on. The same goes for Stef Jo who has been great for us but surely won't want to play for a team that has dumped him twice after promotion. We need at least 6 or 7 new signings in the summer.

[Twig]

Knocky, Christie, Ream, Odoi, Le Marchand Betts and Kamara will be nothing more than squad players next season. Ideally they'll be moved on. The same goes for Stef Jo who has been great for us but surely won't want to play for a team that has dumped him twice after promotion. We need at least 6 or 7 new signings in the summer.

That's my point. Setting aside Stef Jo who we have made clear we don't rate; of the rest just maybe Odoi is useful back up but the rest? No way, absolutely no way. And anyone who thinks that MLM has a part to play is either smoking something or seriously deluded.

[Asotosyios]

Even though our aim for the season was to survive, there was no guarantee for this and that's why all of us were aiming for the 17th place. However, claiming out fight for survival a success must be one of the most ridiculous things I have read on here.

First of all, it cannot be a success as we are obviously getting relegated. Also, statements like "we have given it a hell of a go" and "we are still in with a shout this late in the season" are childish or deluded to say the least. What did the OP expect? That we would be relegated by the end of January so having a very slight chance at the end of April looks like a success? I couldn't hear us being in with a shout even before the Chelsea game. It was more like a whisper for the hard of hearing!

We have 27 points and have scored 25 goals in 34 games - is that what success is now? I am sorry, but in my book that reads complete failure. And as for giving it a hell of a go, please don't make me laugh. Giving it a hell of a go would mean going into the last game against Newcastle with all to play for. Giving it a hell of a go would mean we would reach 37 or 38 or 39 or even 40 points and making the team on 17th need more than then usually required 40 points to be safe. Then, we could say we gave it our all and didn't make it. We will be lucky to get to 32-33 points now - if someone told us that before the start of the season, all of us would agree that's not good enough so I cannot see why it should be any difference now.

The only thing I agree with is that relegation is not a disaster. Absolutely a failure, but definitely not a disaster. Life will go on and hopefully we will have a go at the Championship next year.

I don't believe another radical build up should be on the cards though. Yes, the loanees will go and most probably Mitrovic and Anguissa will go as well, but we have enough good players to compete so I would only got for 3-4 quality additions. This should be enough for us to compete and build something at the same time, even if it wont get us promoted straight away.

GK - Rodak/Bettinelli
RB - Tete/Sessegnon
LB - Robinson/Bryan
CB - Tosin/Kongolo/Hector/Odoi (Young CB/Mawson/Le Marchand)
CM - Reed/New CM/Johansen/Francois/Davis
AM/SS - Cairney/Onomah/Carvalho
RW - Cavaleiro/BDR
LW - New LW/Kebano
CF - New CF/Kamara/Stansfield

Then, next year, we could aim for another 3-4 quality additions and so on, so we don't have to get 10 new players every year.