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If the Football League had a backbone they would issue

Started by Baszab, October 03, 2021, 01:37:23 AM

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Baszab

1. A retrospective ban on that cheating player
2. Issue an official apology to FFC from the Refs' association
3. Demote the idiot to the Scrubs for next Sunday morning's games

It's a lot easier to fight hardest for the ball after you've been gifted 2 goals when you had previously not looked like scoring and were 1-0 at half time

FFC players are humans / not FIFA 22 robots on a PS game

Rupert

Back in the day (I think it might have been Tigana's Division One Championship season) I was given a lift to the match by the referee assessor. It was a frustrating game, one we dominated, but ultimately came away with a draw, either 1-1 or 0-0.
I recall we were not best pleased with the referee's performance. The general perception was that he had bottled several crucial decisions, which had ultimately cost us two points. I took the opportunity to chat about the ref on the journey home. Bear in mind, I was a qualified ref myself, albeit Sunday morning pub football level.
That conversation was an interesting one. The assessor said he had given the ref his post match debrief, which ultimately boiled down to telling him he had refereed without fear or favour.

According to some on this forum, we have had a succession of appalling referees who have, through incompetence, cost us. According to others, we are usually the architects of our own downfall. The ref might not help us, but his job is not meant to be helping us. His job is to be fair and even in his decisions. He will make mistakes. I always got decisions wrong. I never meant to, but things happen in games. Players try to get away with things. Sometimes they succeed. Sometimes you have a limited view of an incident. Sometimes you see a tackle as brilliant, if you make it, or a dirty foul, if you are the recipient. The ref is going to be hopelessly incompetent in the eyes of one side or the other, depending on his decision. I once apparently cost a team the league title by over-ruling the club linesman's offside flag. The fact he was hopelessly out of position when he flagged, even though he was one of the more reliable club linesmen, the fact they lost that match 3-1, the fact their strikers missed several excellent goal scoring opportunities, the fact they lost several other matches that season, all paled into insignificance. It was all my fault for that one decision. I confess, I did not lose any sleep over it.

We have had a few poor decisions help us this season, such as the officials failing to spot the ball going out of play before Mitro deflected a poor clearance into the goal. We're those officials lambasted for getting that wrong? I recall it being highlighted by some, but not in a bad way.

These things will happen. We can use them to excuse poor performances, or we can look closer at how our players perform instead. I know which one is more likely to benefit the team in the long run.
Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain, and most fools do.

Baszab

Interesting and correct assessment
Still fuming though


Motspur Park

Very true Rupert. I am certain that no ref sets out to cheat us but they are human and not can but will be influenced by factors such as the players, manager (such as Warnock, Fergusson etc.) and most of all the hostility of the crowd. It is without doubt that we have also had decisions in our favour but I would say far more have gone against us, largely due to the aforementioned crowd.... this being the most influential factor behind some of the poorer refereeing decisions.

bobby01

I accept that refs get things wrong. What I do not accept however is the serial failures of certain referees that have no outcome that affect them. Can you remember the last time a ref was demoted for a while, I cannot.
As a side note read the report on Deans interference as the var ref in the saints Chelsea game, yet again so called elite refs influencing games they are not even in charge off.
I always believe if we are going to have linesmen then their opinion should be listened to, if you watch at the next match you go to when they flag for the ball going out of play the flag remains upright until the ref points which way he wishes to award the throw even if he is wrong, the lino then points in the same direction. If they are there then use them but it is all part of making the ref the most important part of a match, a tradition of look at me started by Poll.
These are paid officials some like Stroud in my opinion should not be reemployed as they are far below the standard required but they belong to the old boys club and will never be held to account until that changes.
Watching the ups and downs since 1958, wouldn't have it any other way, what a roller coaster of a club.

Ruislip White

Now I've calmed down over it - in real time, it looked like Robinson tripped him up.  After 2 or replays from other angles, it became obvious it was a dive.  Not an easy decision for the ref, but one that could have easily been correctly made with VAR.  Same with the offside goal that Bristol City scored (and the one Mitro scored on Wednesday).  That's what we should have VAR  at this level.  Too many incorrect decisions with significant consequences otherwise.


Woolly Mammoth

The Football League rarely do have a backbone, and yes referees and linesman do bottle it also, and yesterday s linesman definitely did, which is basically cheating.
But the real cheats are the players in this day and age. They want it both ways, they want to cheat to get a decision go their way, and then complain when an opponent cheats against them. That has been the toxic culture more so since the Premiere League was formed.
How many times do you see a player including keepers go down during a match pretending to be injured, are they all made of glass, no shame and a very sick habit. But that is the culture now which has been allowed to fester by the football authorities and the current head of refereeing.
They spend ages at meetings discussing the opening of an envelope, and their highest priority is to discuss what's on the menu at the next football banquet.
Nevertheless the real culprits are the players and coaches of clubs who orchestrate to try and win penalty's, free kicks, and influence referees to caution or dismiss an opponent. That is the root of the problem.
So it is no wonder referees make mistakes because they have to determine in a matter of seconds who is cheating and who is not. Matches have become stop start stop start and broken up because players decide to go down feigning injury. I brushed passed the TV the other day and a Liverpool player fell down in agony holding his boat race, that is what football has become  a theartre of play acting, so it's not always the officials fault.
What we have to remember that during the course of a match players from both teams are in the ear of the referee whilst play is continuing to sow seeds of doubt in a refs mind, questioning everything to gain an advantage. Players are very cute as they take turns in doing it to avoid one player getting booked for dissent.
For example " ref warch their number 3 he keeps leaving his foot in after a tackle, or behind your back ref their number 5 is running his studs down the back of our number 10s leg, or he keeps holding him at set pieces" all this is to wear down a ref who may then award a decision in favour of a team over a 50/50 decision.
Imagine this going on for 90 plus minutes, not forgetting the coaching getting their three Penneth worth, all just to gain an edge.
I would favour 15 minute Sin Bins for at least dissent, that would take the sting out of a situation, as the managers won't fancy playing with ten men for 15 mins, that would put a stop to much of the nonsense referees have to endure.

Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.

filham

Robinson's tackle was poor and late but the video clips show that no contact was made and in fact the attacking player was not impeded but  benefitted with a penalty award as a result  of a deceitful dive. It was a close call for the ref. and his error is understandable.
The real culprit is the attacking player, surely that player should now be reprimanded.

toshes mate

The sole culprit is the referee and not the players.  It is professional football meaning gamesmanship and professional 'fouls' are going to be used to influence the referee.   Players (on both sides) know when the guy in charge has been fooled and some will gain confidence in their ability to fool him/her while others will be discouraged by lack of protection.

As for the football authorities the standard of refereeing on the pitch lags behind the lack of due process involved in assessing which referees are doing well and which are not.   If you are not seeing a decent standard of officiating on the pitch then you may be seeing deficiencies that started decades ago.  Unless the authorities change their tack the current deficiencies on offer will only get worse.  Players in the meantime will continue to gamble with a referee's shortcomings and whi can blame them in a sport where results, in all senses of the word, are critical.

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for any number of people unconnected with Coventry.   They did what they had to.  As for FFC, as Silva said post match, we did not.   


H4usuallysitting

I'm still waiting for our penalty against Arsenal.....that had to be the worst decision ever

grandad

By rights their diver should have got a red card. Down to 10 men with most of the half to go I am sure we could have got something out of the game. Surely there can be a retrospective ban. A disgrace if this is not possible. It is the only way we can irradicate this cheating.
Where there's a will there's a wife

filham

Quote from: toshes mate on October 03, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
The sole culprit is the referee and not the players.  It is professional football meaning gamesmanship and professional 'fouls' are going to be used to influence the referee.   Players (on both sides) know when the guy in charge has been fooled and some will gain confidence in their ability to fool him/her while others will be discouraged by lack of protection.

As for the football authorities the standard of refereeing on the pitch lags behind the lack of due process involved in assessing which referees are doing well and which are not.   If you are not seeing a decent standard of officiating on the pitch then you may be seeing deficiencies that started decades ago.  Unless the authorities change their tack the current deficiencies on offer will only get worse.  Players in the meantime will continue to gamble with a referee's shortcomings and whi can blame them in a sport where results, in all senses of the word, are critical.

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for any number of people unconnected with Coventry.   They did what they had to.  As for FFC, as Silva said post match, we did not.   
No the ref had a difficult decision to make and got it wrong whereas the player is guilty of deliberately cheating and deception, stop that and the refs will be making fewer mistakes.


rogerpbackinMidEastUS

#12
The Championship play off final is supposed to be the most profitable game in the world.
Therefore getting there has the chance of promotion to the PS and the Golden Goose Egg
I understand human error but there is a lot of it in the CS and elsewhere and, for example
if the "'offside" goal against us a couple of weeks ago and yesterdays penalty had been in the
CS play off final,  it may have cost the recipient Millions,
And yet there is no VAR and no effort by a lot of refs to consult their Linespeeps,
I believe that every effort should be made to get these decisions right even to the extent
of a 5th assistant.
These days with headsets and instant verbal contact most 'cases' could be agreed in less time
than most VAR decisions,
I know a lot of 'oldies, like me might say "Human error is all part of the game", but these days
there is so much more at sstake.

PS: from the replays I've seen I'm not sure that yesterdays 'penalty decision" was wrong.
But, benefit of the doubt and inter-official chats would make some much common sense. !!!!
and if the referees are frightened by the crowd, then train up some Army Sergeant Majors
and instill a neutrality attitude, except of course if they are referring Aldershot

VERY DAFT AND A LOT DAFTER THAN I SEEM, SOMETIMES

cookieg

What is so frustrating about the penalty is that the player is going away from goal and there was no need whatsoever for Robinson to even attempt a tackle. He moved his foot and gave the attacker the opportunity to go down. Shocking decision absolutely but Robinson gave the ref the decision to make. If stands up right the player runs passed him.

bobbo

Quote from: Ruislip White on October 03, 2021, 08:42:14 AM
Now I've calmed down over it - in real time, it looked like Robinson tripped him up.  After 2 or replays from other angles, it became obvious it was a dive.  Not an easy decision for the ref, but one that could have easily been correctly made with VAR.  Same with the offside goal that Bristol City scored (and the one Mitro scored on Wednesday).  That's what we should have VAR  at this level.  Too many incorrect decisions with significant consequences otherwise.
It wasn't difficult for the ref to be honest he was close and the cheat threw himself in the air , a definite booking to him for simulation. Who knows how the game would have progressed but we literally fell apart after that.
1975 just leaving home full of hope


rebel

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on October 03, 2021, 09:27:24 AM
The Football League rarely do have a backbone, and yes referees and linesman do bottle it also, and yesterday s linesman definitely did, which is basically cheating.
But the real cheats are the players in this day and age. They want it both ways, they want to cheat to get a decision go their way, and then complain when an opponent cheats against them. That has been the toxic culture more so since the Premiere League was formed.
How many times do you see a player including keepers go down during a match pretending to be injured, are they all made of glass, no shame and a very sick habit. But that is the culture now which has been allowed to fester by the football authorities and the current head of refereeing.
They spend ages at meetings discussing the opening of an envelope, and their highest priority is to discuss what's on the menu at the next football banquet.
Nevertheless the real culprits are the players and coaches of clubs who orchestrate to try and win penalty's, free kicks, and influence referees to caution or dismiss an opponent. That is the root of the problem.
So it is no wonder referees make mistakes because they have to determine in a matter of seconds who is cheating and who is not. Matches have become stop start stop start and broken up because players decide to go down feigning injury. I brushed passed the TV the other day and a Liverpool player fell down in agony holding his boat race, that is what football has become  a theartre of play acting, so it's not always the officials fault.
What we have to remember that during the course of a match players from both teams are in the ear of the referee whilst play is continuing to sow seeds of doubt in a refs mind, questioning everything to gain an advantage. Players are very cute as they take turns in doing it to avoid one player getting booked for dissent.
For example " ref warch their number 3 he keeps leaving his foot in after a tackle, or behind your back ref their number 5 is running his studs down the back of our number 10s leg, or he keeps holding him at set pieces" all this is to wear down a ref who may then award a decision in favour of a team over a 50/50 decision.
Imagine this going on for 90 plus minutes, not forgetting the coaching getting their three Penneth worth, all just to gain an edge.
I would favour 15 minute Sin Bins for at least dissent, that would take the sting out of a situation, as the managers won't fancy playing with ten men for 15 mins, that would put a stop to much of the nonsense referees have to endure.



Are you calling The Football League 'invertebrates'?   

rebel

Quote from: grandad on October 03, 2021, 01:27:44 PM
By rights their diver should have got a red card. Down to 10 men with most of the half to go I am sure we could have got something out of the game. Surely there can be a retrospective ban. A disgrace if this is not possible. It is the only way we can irradicate this cheating.

I bet Robinson's marked someone's card. Don't mess with 'The Jedi'.   

Montague

Quote from: rebel on October 04, 2021, 09:57:19 AM
Quote from: grandad on October 03, 2021, 01:27:44 PM
By rights their diver should have got a red card. Down to 10 men with most of the half to go I am sure we could have got something out of the game. Surely there can be a retrospective ban. A disgrace if this is not possible. It is the only way we can irradicate this cheating.

I bet Robinson's marked someone's card. Don't mess with 'The Jedi'.

Robinson does rash challenges - yes the attacker dived and 'bought' a penalty (and by rights should receive some sort of discipline for blatant cheating) but Robinson showed lack of experience by diving in with the challenge when the attacker and ball were heading away from the goal out towards the touchline - a more experienced defender would have probably shadowed him out of the box away from immediate danger - forward still had to turn or pass back to become a threat.

Wouldn't be surprised if what happened was part of the Coventry game plan - analysist brief to attacker to focus on Robinson for rash challenges and go down in the box if the opportunity presents itself.


toshes mate

Quote from: filham on October 03, 2021, 02:11:59 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 03, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
The sole culprit is the referee and not the players.  It is professional football meaning gamesmanship and professional 'fouls' are going to be used to influence the referee.   Players (on both sides) know when the guy in charge has been fooled and some will gain confidence in their ability to fool him/her while others will be discouraged by lack of protection.

As for the football authorities the standard of refereeing on the pitch lags behind the lack of due process involved in assessing which referees are doing well and which are not.   If you are not seeing a decent standard of officiating on the pitch then you may be seeing deficiencies that started decades ago.  Unless the authorities change their tack the current deficiencies on offer will only get worse.  Players in the meantime will continue to gamble with a referee's shortcomings and whi can blame them in a sport where results, in all senses of the word, are critical.

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for any number of people unconnected with Coventry.   They did what they had to.  As for FFC, as Silva said post match, we did not.   
No the ref had a difficult decision to make and got it wrong whereas the player is guilty of deliberately cheating and deception, stop that and the refs will be making fewer mistakes.
And the referee is not there to stop deliberate cheating and deception?  If that is your perception then no wonder the game is in a mess.  My point is that it is the referee's job to control a game and his/her ability to do so should be very carefully honed especially in the professional game where, as I said before and as Roger says above, stakes are very high and getting a result (e.g. the penalty) is more important than playing the game within the rules because cheating and deception too often pay dividends.

Logicalman

Quote from: bobby01 on October 03, 2021, 08:36:27 AM
I accept that refs get things wrong. What I do not accept however is the serial failures of certain referees that have no outcome that affect them. Can you remember the last time a ref was demoted for a while, I cannot.

Mike dean 2017/18 season, following poor Liverpool derby and United/West Ham matches. Had to officiate in the Championship for a short while, and it was all very public.

Logical is just in the name - don't expect it has anything to do with my thought process, because I AM the man who sold the world.