Anguissa: Merged

[The Rational Fan]

This could have been a thread about Seri a year ago. Many posters forget very quickly.

Also, what does it mean to have a positive impact on a result? Is it only goals and assists? Or is it something just arbitrarily used against players we don't like?

If no one new joins central midfield and Anguissa stays, then our best central midfielder is Anguissa.

We need at least four central midfielders for every matchday 18 and at least six for the season. Anguissa would enhance the squad of 17 clubs in premier league, because even Manchester United don't have six central midfielders better than Anguissa.

If Anguissa is the worst player in next seasons starting XI, then we will get 40 points and do better than 17th which is far beyond my expectations for next season.

[bencher]

There is an interesting interview with Anguissa from about 3 weeks ago, where he addresses the criticism about his lack of goals and assists, and says his job is tactical and team shape and there are other players whose role is to produce the statistics. He is talking about Napoli, not Fulham, but in some ways it applies to us too. We had other players that were expected to produce goals and assists - Lookman, RLC, BDR, Cav...dare I say, Mitro.

https://youtu.be/PtOQ_CQRjgk

I think my problem with that is that he does not play like Kante or Makelele, he drives forward with the ball and gets into good areas, it's just he then rarely does anything meaningful with it. Perhaps because he does that, he is not always deep enough to protect the defence - and he doesn't seem to bust a gut to chase runners back. Basically, if we had better players around him, he might be able to do his job better.

[HV71]

Quote
"This could have been a thread about Seri a year ago. Many posters forget very quickly. "

Yes - agreed but some were incredibly pleased and quick to admit they had got it wrong about Seri when he really began to contribute and looked like he wanted to play for us

Quote
"Also, what does it mean to have a positive impact on a result? Is it only goals and assists? Or is it something just arbitrarily used against players we don't like?"

Well , whilst goals and assists go a long way of course they are not the full story. Blocks , tackles , interceptions, creating space etc etc all have a bearing. An example that immediately comes to mind would be Ollie Norwood's fantastic block at Wembley ( potentially a game changer ) . My earlier post reflected on the fact that I couldn't remember anything Frank has done that I found memorable. It's not about liking /not liking players it's how we individually see and value their contribution. We are all different - and as I said if a far better football brain than mine - Silva wants him back I cannot argue. Sting - think about your own opinion of Reed ( who you don't see to rate from what I can gather from your previous posts ) and imagine that others might feel the same about the mercurial Anguissa.
Just my humble opinion of course

[toshes mate]

I regard much that happened in summer 2018 was bad taste business. 

Seri, at the very least, had reasons to be upset with the detail of his transfers given clubs he had previously played for were deprived the promised financial benefit long before FFC came along and seemingly compounded these issues.  Seri at least played an important part in our success this season.   Anguissa at FFC seemed over priced and over rated from the off since professional commitment should always follow signing a contract with a new team if nothing else.  What happened with our first relegaton smacked of a lack of commitment from Anguissa but do I know the full story?   Assuming we do know the full story then we should have no truck with fairweather followers.  As it is we seemingly spent a lot of money on a player who has yet to show for us and, it seems, we would be nowhere near making a profit out of his sale. 

For last season there are unknowns: was Anguissa's loan an indication of FFC's FFP strategy and would he otherwise have gladly played for us this season in the Championship and. if so, will Marco Silve gladly welcome him back now knowing he can get him to play and do well for us in th PL?  I have my doubts.   I still get that bad taste in my mouth whenever I think about that post Wembley summer 2018 and what followed.

 

[Sting of the North]

Quote
"This could have been a thread about Seri a year ago. Many posters forget very quickly. "

Yes - agreed but some were incredibly pleased and quick to admit they had got it wrong about Seri when he really began to contribute and looked like he wanted to play for us

Quote
"Also, what does it mean to have a positive impact on a result? Is it only goals and assists? Or is it something just arbitrarily used against players we don't like?"

Well , whilst goals and assists go a long way of course they are not the full story. Blocks , tackles , interceptions, creating space etc etc all have a bearing. An example that immediately comes to mind would be Ollie Norwood's fantastic block at Wembley ( potentially a game changer ) . My earlier post reflected on the fact that I couldn't remember anything Frank has done that I found memorable. It's not about liking /not liking players it's how we individually see and value their contribution. We are all different - and as I said if a far better football brain than mine - Silva wants him back I cannot argue. Sting - think about your own opinion of Reed ( who you don't see to rate from what I can gather from your previous posts ) and imagine that others might feel the same about the mercurial Anguissa.
Just my humble opinion of course

A fair comment. You are correct in that I don't particularly rate Reed, and I am sure that over time confirmation bias makes me rate him even less. This has nothing to do with memorable moments though.

I can understand why people don't rate Anguissa, but I don't believe players normally should be rated on memorable moments (again, that would only reflect badly on Reed, for example, in my opinion). Anguissa actually had very good statistics last season for us, and his tackles, blocks, dribbles and passes contributed to the team performance, memorable or not. I would argue that players like Kante or Makelele (both wonderful players in my opinion) offers (or offered) quite little in terms of memorable moments. At the other hand, a player like Schûrrle was a game changer but I don't think many misses him.

My personal opinion is that Anguissa has been a victim of playing in poor teams for us. He should of course take a fair share of the blame for that, but not more than the other players (and managers). I believe that under the right manager in the right team he is a top level midfielder, and certainly a big upgrade on Reed, Onomah and Chalobah at least.

As for his willingness to fight for the cause I will happily leave that to Silva to assess, since none of us here seem to actually have any clue about the matter. I can not recall Anguissa refusing to play or ever stating that he doesn't want to be here, so as with all others I am happy to give him the benefit of doubt until we know more.

[Count Flapula]

Not a carbon copy by any means but reminds me of Dembele#1 when he started to play deeper - strong, good dribbler but slightly lacking in creativity. A big difference is Dembele would shield the defence better and a was more relaible when the chips were down.

There is clearly a good player in there if a manager can somehow channel his attributes (this is definitely a puzzle that needs solving)/ensure he has an attitude of total willingness to play and fight for the club. If Silva wants to keep him and thinks he can do that then great.

My main concern is will him keep flitting back into the squad every time we get back into the EPL cause resentment in the dressing room with some who have toughed it out through thick and thin and got us back up again?

Even if the majority of teammates like him as a person, I can't see how having someone who has a perception of wanting out / not showing total commitment when the going gets tough won't alienate at least some. The last thing we need in the dressing room are characters that have the potential to cause divides so i'd rather we sell him, let someone else try to get the best out of him and concentrate on bringing in players with the right mind set and sufficient quality for the challenge ahead.

[Jim©]

I would suspect that Anguissa may actually be sent out on loan when we are in the Championship as he's got one of the largest salaries in the squad and you are better off doing without him than someone on a similar wage like Mitro.
It's just a hunch, and what that last bit says about him could be key (that we can do without him more than others).

Personally I really like him as a player and think that he's played in 2 dreadful FFC sides.

[The Rational Fan]

I suspect "Anguissa's loan fee" paid completely for "Wilson's loan fee", so we traded defensive strength for attacking strength. 

[Woolly Mammoth]

I would suspect that Anguissa may actually be sent out on loan when we are in the Championship as he's got one of the largest salaries in the squad and you are better off doing without him than someone on a similar wage like Mitro.
It's just a hunch, and what that last bit says about him could be key (that we can do without him more than others).

Personally I really like him as a player and think that he's played in 2 dreadful FFC sides.

and he was one of the reasons why they were dreadful.

[Bassey the warrior]

There is an interesting interview with Anguissa from about 3 weeks ago, where he addresses the criticism about his lack of goals and assists, and says his job is tactical and team shape and there are other players whose role is to produce the statistics. He is talking about Napoli, not Fulham, but in some ways it applies to us too. We had other players that were expected to produce goals and assists - Lookman, RLC, BDR, Cav...dare I say, Mitro.

https://youtu.be/PtOQ_CQRjgk

I think my problem with that is that he does not play like Kante or Makelele, he drives forward with the ball and gets into good areas, it's just he then rarely does anything meaningful with it. Perhaps because he does that, he is not always deep enough to protect the defence - and he doesn't seem to bust a gut to chase runners back. Basically, if we had better players around him, he might be able to do his job better.

Ball carrying and winning the ball are both very valuable, so long as he can pass the ball to those in advanced areas to do something in the final third. How many goals and assists did Mousa Dembele get?

[toshes mate]

I would suspect that Anguissa may actually be sent out on loan when we are in the Championship as he's got one of the largest salaries in the squad and you are better off doing without him than someone on a similar wage like Mitro.
It's just a hunch, and what that last bit says about him could be key (that we can do without him more than others).

Personally I really like him as a player and think that he's played in 2 dreadful FFC sides.

and he was one of the reasons why they were dreadful.

I agree that Anguissa was memorably as dreadful as any one else was. 

I lost count of the times teams ripped through us because there was no adequate midfield resistance in every PL season since 2018.  Harrison Reed's loan spell demonstrated just how good an engine he had but, once signed, successfully pairing him has proved problematic and this last season has seen him visibly tiring towards the end.  I suspect at least a part of the problem for midfield  is that Marco Silva's set up is much more about speed of attack and strategic cover (including the keeper) rather than time to cover when possession is lost as it was under the gardening leave guy.   That may have meant that Reed was often playing on energy fumes rather than energy substance.   

I think getting the midfield right is crucial for next season.  A versatlle, tall defensive midfielder (who ideally can also play centre back allowing for tactical changes) would be my answer but there must be many  other possibilities.  I am just not sure Anguissa figures.

[70sPimlico]

I would suspect that Anguissa may actually be sent out on loan when we are in the Championship as he's got one of the largest salaries in the squad and you are better off doing without him than someone on a similar wage like Mitro.
It's just a hunch, and what that last bit says about him could be key (that we can do without him more than others).

Personally I really like him as a player and think that he's played in 2 dreadful FFC sides.

and he was one of the reasons why they were dreadful.

What, and its just a coincidence that every other club he plays for loves him? The Villerreal fans started a "Free Zambo" campaign when he came back to Fulham.

We had god awful coaches managing us in our last few premiership campaigns. Christ, look at what Parker did with Mitro. We know have a proper coach who gets the best out of players and plays them to their strengths.

I dont care if Angiuissa comes back or not, but if he does, you will finally see what we have been missing. And its nothing to do with his attitude or going over trenches or any of that other nonsense.

Take a look at what he has been doing over the last 12 months under proper coaches and tell me that we wouldn't want this next season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nSLBx67ODI&t=111s

[perry geyton]

This could have been a thread about Seri a year ago. Many posters forget very quickly.

Also, what does it mean to have a positive impact on a result? Is it only goals and assists? Or is it something just arbitrarily used against players we don't like?

A positive impact leads by example and Anguissa certainly doesn't fill that role, 

[perry geyton]

I would suspect that Anguissa may actually be sent out on loan when we are in the Championship as he's got one of the largest salaries in the squad and you are better off doing without him than someone on a similar wage like Mitro.
It's just a hunch, and what that last bit says about him could be key (that we can do without him more than others).

Personally I really like him as a player and think that he's played in 2 dreadful FFC sides.

and he was one of the reasons why they were dreadful.

What, and its just a coincidence that every other club he plays for loves him? The Villerreal fans started a "Free Zambo" campaign when he came back to Fulham.

We had god awful coaches managing us in our last few premiership campaigns. Christ, look at what Parker did with Mitro. We know have a proper coach who gets the best out of players and plays them to their strengths.

I dont care if Angiuissa comes back or not, but if he does, you will finally see what we have been missing. And its nothing to do with his attitude or going over trenches or any of that other nonsense.

Take a look at what he has been doing over the last 12 months under proper coaches and tell me that we wouldn't want this next season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nSLBx67ODI&t=111s

His agent probably put that YouTube clip together....

Is there also a YouTube video clip of all the times he gives the ball away in silly areas ?
Also how about the clips where he turns potential attacking play into negative play by going backwards ?
No I doubt it

[Jim©]

I would suspect that Anguissa may actually be sent out on loan when we are in the Championship as he's got one of the largest salaries in the squad and you are better off doing without him than someone on a similar wage like Mitro.
It's just a hunch, and what that last bit says about him could be key (that we can do without him more than others).

Personally I really like him as a player and think that he's played in 2 dreadful FFC sides.

and he was one of the reasons why they were dreadful.

What, and its just a coincidence that every other club he plays for loves him? The Villerreal fans started a "Free Zambo" campaign when he came back to Fulham.

We had god awful coaches managing us in our last few premiership campaigns. Christ, look at what Parker did with Mitro. We know have a proper coach who gets the best out of players and plays them to their strengths.

I dont care if Angiuissa comes back or not, but if he does, you will finally see what we have been missing. And its nothing to do with his attitude or going over trenches or any of that other nonsense.

Take a look at what he has been doing over the last 12 months under proper coaches and tell me that we wouldn't want this next season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nSLBx67ODI&t=111s
[/quote]
His agent probably put that YouTube clip together....

Is there also a YouTube video clip of all the times he gives the ball away in silly areas ?
Also how about the clips where he turns potential attacking play into negative play by going backwards ?
No I doubt it
[/quote]

I think that it was difficult to pass to a player ahead of him in the Parker team as we were set up so deep in every game. Wilson and Kebano MK2 both get ahead of the ball meaning he'd have someone to pass to (or to the space that they create for the full backs.
Even though I make the point in my original post about us perhaps needing others more than him, I'd trust Silva to work well with him and utilise him properly (unlike the last 2 managers in Prem seasons).

[Donnie Lonegan]

Seems like a definite decision has been made.

https://sportwitness.co.uk/players-fulham-exit-around-corner-club-will-pay-cottagers-decision-now-definitively-taken/

[Frackleheath]

Like a number of Italian sides, I don't think that they can afford to pay the fee required!!

[Twig]

Quote
"This could have been a thread about Seri a year ago. Many posters forget very quickly. "

Yes - agreed but some were incredibly pleased and quick to admit they had got it wrong about Seri when he really began to contribute and looked like he wanted to play for us

Quote
"Also, what does it mean to have a positive impact on a result? Is it only goals and assists? Or is it something just arbitrarily used against players we don't like?"

Well , whilst goals and assists go a long way of course they are not the full story. Blocks , tackles , interceptions, creating space etc etc all have a bearing. An example that immediately comes to mind would be Ollie Norwood's fantastic block at Wembley ( potentially a game changer ) . My earlier post reflected on the fact that I couldn't remember anything Frank has done that I found memorable. It's not about liking /not liking players it's how we individually see and value their contribution. We are all different - and as I said if a far better football brain than mine - Silva wants him back I cannot argue. Sting - think about your own opinion of Reed ( who you don't see to rate from what I can gather from your previous posts ) and imagine that others might feel the same about the mercurial Anguissa.
Just my humble opinion of course

This is my memory of Zambo too. I keep asking myself whether I am forgetting something or filtering my recollections.  he always looked a neat and tidy player but I struggle to recall goals, assists, tackles and blocks, gut busting runs back to defend, defence unlocking passes or forward runs resulting in an opening or ending with a contructive pass.  I just think he flatters to deceive.

[Sting of the North]

This could have been a thread about Seri a year ago. Many posters forget very quickly.

Also, what does it mean to have a positive impact on a result? Is it only goals and assists? Or is it something just arbitrarily used against players we don't like?

A positive impact leads by example and Anguissa certainly doesn't fill that role,

That's of course just one way to have a positive impact. But I guess you know that actually.

[WindyCity]

My main concern is will him keep flitting back into the squad every time we get back into the EPL cause resentment in the dressing room with some who have toughed it out through thick and thin and got us back up again?  Even if the majority of teammates like him as a person, I can't see how having someone who has a perception of wanting out / not showing total commitment when the going gets tough won't alienate at least some. The last thing we need in the dressing room are characters that have the potential to cause divides so i'd rather we sell him, let someone else try to get the best out of him and concentrate on bringing in players with the right mind set and sufficient quality for the challenge ahead.

This really should NOT be a concern.  IF we assume we're talking about a locker room of "professional footballers".  This always bothered me about incoming players brought to improve the squad.  I think the second to last time up there was all kinds of locker room consternation amongst the players getting the team promoted and the new faces.  I'm sorry, but these guys need to be professionals and accept the fact they may now be bench/squad players when team upgrades are made, and not make a big mess of it all.  Work hard and try to get play time based on your abilities and dedication.