FFCTv & GJ Commentary

[Holders]

How would I see what version it ? I've no idea what a VPN is, though I've seen it mentioned on here. How would that affect it?

[Logicalman]

How would I see what version it ? I've no idea what a VPN is, though I've seen it mentioned on here. How would that affect it?

You answered one question then, you don't use a VPN, which amongst other things is just a method of securing your network somewhat by using a third party like a firewall, to hide your IP address, etc.

To find your Chrome version (and this is generally the same for all browsers), you click on the address bar (for Chrome it's usually three dots on the right end), which willopen a drop-down menu list, then put the curser over 'Help' and you should see a pop-out menu where you can click About Google Crome). That gives you all the information.
My reason for suggesting this is because you said it may be the stream provider has changed something, and so that could mean an older version of a browser may not be able to handle it as well as it should, and this something providers would often ask when troubleshooting.

For example, my version is: Version 106.0.5249.91 (Official Build) (64-bit)

[Holders]

How would I see what version it ? I've no idea what a VPN is, though I've seen it mentioned on here. How would that affect it?

You answered one question then, you don't use a VPN, which amongst other things is just a method of securing your network somewhat by using a third party like a firewall, to hide your IP address, etc.

To find your Chrome version (and this is generally the same for all browsers), you click on the address bar (for Chrome it's usually three dots on the right end), which willopen a drop-down menu list, then put the curser over 'Help' and you should see a pop-out menu where you can click About Google Crome). That gives you all the information.
My reason for suggesting this is because you said it may be the stream provider has changed something, and so that could mean an older version of a browser may not be able to handle it as well as it should, and this something providers would often ask when troubleshooting.

For example, my version is: Version 106.0.5249.91 (Official Build) (64-bit)

Thank you.

My version of Chrome is the same as yours.

[toshes mate]

Late to the scene, since I stopped using FFCtv some time ago, but if Holders can access other streams, both audio and video, then it is most unlikely the problem is at his end.  To receive the legit Wolves stream is comparable to accessing the Fulham GJ stream and if the former works and the latter doesn't then the culprit does seem to be FFCtv.  I know in the past that I had issues with GJ's commentary cutting out but I could hear the line drop warning which is a technical issue with the stream itself.  After a delay the line reconnect message could be heard and the commentary restored.  Paid for content shouldn't be such a hassle but regrettably the EULA contract on football streams in England appears to offer no protection to the end user for failure to connect to and receive live commentary.

I am going to have a little dig around for more information about audio streams and I will report back here if I find anything helpful.

[Holders]

Late to the scene, since I stopped using FFCtv some time ago, but if Holders can access other streams, both audio and video, then it is most unlikely the problem is at his end.  To receive the legit Wolves stream is comparable to accessing the Fulham GJ stream and if the former works and the latter doesn't then the culprit does seem to be FFCtv.  I know in the past that I had issues with GJ's commentary cutting out but I could hear the line drop warning which is a technical issue with the stream itself.  After a delay the line reconnect message could be heard and the commentary restored.  Paid for content shouldn't be such a hassle but regrettably the EULA contract on football streams in England appears to offer no protection to the end user for failure to connect to and receive live commentary.

I am going to have a little dig around for more information about audio streams and I will report back here if I find anything helpful.

Thank you, toshes mate. I'm not technical but that's exactly what I thought. The Wolves stream was perfect, free!, but sadly lacking the independent objectivity of GJ. 

[toshes mate]

There should be little difference between browsers used for accessing FFCtv and I note that Holders uses FFCtv preferred Google Chrome in any event.  There should be no problem logging onto and using the stream and so there is only one other possibility with the failure to stream an easy load like an audio stream and it is an unusual situation which only applies to people not using a goodish fibre connection.

It concerns uploads of work to the cloud (for security purposes) and interferes with download speed and potential on the device used for streaming.  It is present in any Windows10/11 or Apple OS.  It also applies to any other device on a network at home which has security featuring a cloud (e.g. tablet, smartphone, PC etc.) which can be uploading at the same time as another user is trying to download a stream and that battle may be determined by the efficiency of the individial devices.  I have seen this interferring with e.g. Netflix and other download streams causing constant buffering for the watching audience.   It is unlikely to be the culprit with a decent fibre broadband source but it is just something worth checking out with your ISP when download speed on a Saturday afternoon is unsatisfactory or no connection is possible because it times out.   Your ISP can monitor your connection in real time and check for latency issues (if they have a live help desk that is) but you can also ensure all devices not being used are switched off and not uploading back up data.   That's the best I can offer. 

[Logicalman]

Late to the scene, since I stopped using FFCtv some time ago, but if Holders can access other streams, both audio and video, then it is most unlikely the problem is at his end.  To receive the legit Wolves stream is comparable to accessing the Fulham GJ stream and if the former works and the latter doesn't then the culprit does seem to be FFCtv.  I know in the past that I had issues with GJ's commentary cutting out but I could hear the line drop warning which is a technical issue with the stream itself.  After a delay the line reconnect message could be heard and the commentary restored.  Paid for content shouldn't be such a hassle but regrettably the EULA contract on football streams in England appears to offer no protection to the end user for failure to connect to and receive live commentary.

I am going to have a little dig around for more information about audio streams and I will report back here if I find anything helpful.

I would agree with you, but for the simple fact there are many that have no issues whatsoever.
That, for me, does not put the whole issue at the door of FFCTv, but somewhere at, and between, the two endpoints.

[Logicalman]

There should be little difference between browsers used for accessing FFCtv and I note that Holders uses FFCtv preferred Google Chrome in any event.  There should be no problem logging onto and using the stream and so there is only one other possibility with the failure to stream an easy load like an audio stream and it is an unusual situation which only applies to people not using a goodish fibre connection.

It concerns uploads of work to the cloud (for security purposes) and interferes with download speed and potential on the device used for streaming.  It is present in any Windows10/11 or Apple OS.  It also applies to any other device on a network at home which has security featuring a cloud (e.g. tablet, smartphone, PC etc.) which can be uploading at the same time as another user is trying to download a stream and that battle may be determined by the efficiency of the individial devices.  I have seen this interferring with e.g. Netflix and other download streams causing constant buffering for the watching audience.   It is unlikely to be the culprit with a decent fibre broadband source but it is just something worth checking out with your ISP when download speed on a Saturday afternoon is unsatisfactory or no connection is possible because it times out.   Your ISP can monitor your connection in real time and check for latency issues (if they have a live help desk that is) but you can also ensure all devices not being used are switched off and not uploading back up data.   That's the best I can offer.

That is a feasible scenario inasmuch that, even though I use a hard connection for my TV, I still get buffering when watching some non-live content via Sling, for example, though the same stream on another device in the household, via wireless connection, may have no issues whatsoever. For this, I really cannot blame the source, but look for other devices/causes, especially in the current climate of so much iot in each household.

[toshes mate]

Late to the scene, since I stopped using FFCtv some time ago, but if Holders can access other streams, both audio and video, then it is most unlikely the problem is at his end.  To receive the legit Wolves stream is comparable to accessing the Fulham GJ stream and if the former works and the latter doesn't then the culprit does seem to be FFCtv.  I know in the past that I had issues with GJ's commentary cutting out but I could hear the line drop warning which is a technical issue with the stream itself.  After a delay the line reconnect message could be heard and the commentary restored.  Paid for content shouldn't be such a hassle but regrettably the EULA contract on football streams in England appears to offer no protection to the end user for failure to connect to and receive live commentary.

I am going to have a little dig around for more information about audio streams and I will report back here if I find anything helpful.

I would agree with you, but for the simple fact there are many that have no issues whatsoever.
That, for me, does not put the whole issue at the door of FFCTv, but somewhere at, and between, the two endpoints.

The Wolves game was covered by both clubs.  Holders could access the Wolves commentary but not the Fulham commentary.   Were there Wolves fans around the world unable to listen to the Wolves commentary but could log onto FFCtv?  Of course it is circumstantial and that is why, perhaps, these streaming companies are happy enough to take money whilst only ensuring the bulk of their users are happy.  It still doesn't mean Holders is doing sometng wrong - it suggests that FFCtv needs to respond (the modern phrase is 'reach out to' I do believe) to people who have problems and help them solve them and not hide behind iniquitous EULA contracts.  IMO.

[toshes mate]

There should be little difference between browsers used for accessing FFCtv and I note that Holders uses FFCtv preferred Google Chrome in any event.  There should be no problem logging onto and using the stream and so there is only one other possibility with the failure to stream an easy load like an audio stream and it is an unusual situation which only applies to people not using a goodish fibre connection.

It concerns uploads of work to the cloud (for security purposes) and interferes with download speed and potential on the device used for streaming.  It is present in any Windows10/11 or Apple OS.  It also applies to any other device on a network at home which has security featuring a cloud (e.g. tablet, smartphone, PC etc.) which can be uploading at the same time as another user is trying to download a stream and that battle may be determined by the efficiency of the individial devices.  I have seen this interferring with e.g. Netflix and other download streams causing constant buffering for the watching audience.   It is unlikely to be the culprit with a decent fibre broadband source but it is just something worth checking out with your ISP when download speed on a Saturday afternoon is unsatisfactory or no connection is possible because it times out.   Your ISP can monitor your connection in real time and check for latency issues (if they have a live help desk that is) but you can also ensure all devices not being used are switched off and not uploading back up data.   That's the best I can offer.

That is a feasible scenario inasmuch that, even though I use a hard connection for my TV, I still get buffering when watching some non-live content via Sling, for example, though the same stream on another device in the household, via wireless connection, may have no issues whatsoever. For this, I really cannot blame the source, but look for other devices/causes, especially in the current climate of so much iot in each household.

Latency is dictated by overall data use but uploads are heavier (slower) traffic than downloads and so hard or wireless connection does not matter.  If you have any device uploading it will diminish overall data capacity in either direction for other devices.  In the case I first witnessed about five year's ago the line speed was a steady 2Mb but the actual download speed was 57Kb which is the equivalent of linespeeds  in the best years of handshake telephone line connectivity - frustating at times.

[Holders]

As I said, I'm not technical but it baffles me that it's just the FFC audio commentary that doesn't work this season when it has for so many years before and more demanding applications work. Of course I make sure that I'm not doing anything else demanding on my computer to take away resource and my line speed is the same as it ever was.

I approached the streaming sub-contractor twice and got no response so I followed up through FFC Enquiries (Nicola) whom I thought should be interested on my behalf and want to get their sub-contractor to provide a proper service. Eventually after a few ineffective exchanges between us she got the streaming Co. to reply to me but she didn't really seem interested either.

The streaming Co. e-mailed me on Friday (in response to Nicola's chase and my follow-up) to say that Saturday's game should be ok. I asked them what they'd found or changed to warrant that comment but no reply. Sure enough, Saturday was as bad if not worse than ever. So I e-mailed the Co, copied to FFC, on Saturday after the match. Surprise surprise no reply from either.

I think it's that couldn't care less attitude as much as anything that I find so disappointing. The Co, is happy to take FFC's money and FFC to take mine but neither give a toss.

If I hadn't let my FST subscription lapse I'd have asked them to take it on board.

[toshes mate]

You have, for WIIW, my full support Holders.  It is a very unsatisfactory situation and I do hope that FST members continue to press FFC to get the service they offer through FFCtv to be its optimum best rather than "well if it works in America then what could possibly go wrong in the UK?" attitude.  We have had the internet for a long time and I can still remember the early days of voice communication across the internet rather than using expensive international telephone calls which is technically more difficult than streaming a football match commentary from a web server that is designed to be more than a match for expected traffic.

By way of experiment you could ask a friend or family member with a suitable device if you can borrow/use it for just one match commentary and check if it works when your computer doesn't or vice versa.  Make sure if the device is mobile that it is using your server and not its usual source (better if its hard wired to the router).  That may lead to any issues there may be on your machine which seems unlikely.  If by the results of this there seems to be an issue with your machine then you can contact a local PC expert and get them to have a look.  If on the other hand neither device works through your router then talk to your ISP and tell them that the streaming service provider isn't being helpful.  The answer probably won't be the one you want to hear but will confirm how disgracefully incompetent streaming companies can be. 

Best of wishes.

[Holders]

Thank you TM, much appreciated.

[Holders]

End of problem:

To:[email protected] + 1 more Details
Well in the absence of the courtesy of a reply from either of you, you'll be pleased to hear that I've cancelled my subscription and won't be inconveniencing you with my custom any more. It's been a waste of money all season.

Nicola - I seriously suggest that FFC approaches whoever provides Wolves with their audio service. It works perfectly.

[toshes mate]

End of problem:

To:[email protected] + 1 more Details
Well in the absence of the courtesy of a reply from either of you, you'll be pleased to hear that I've cancelled my subscription and won't be inconveniencing you with my custom any more. It's been a waste of money all season.

Nicola - I seriously suggest that FFC approaches whoever provides Wolves with their audio service. It works perfectly.

Perhaps the only viable choice you have Holders but a very good suggestion put to the Club.  Let's see if the Club wise up about their choice of media supplier and look at alternatives.  I guess that will depend upon just how long and profitable streamamg's contract is .... same old ...

[Holders]

End of problem:

To:[email protected] + 1 more Details
Well in the absence of the courtesy of a reply from either of you, you'll be pleased to hear that I've cancelled my subscription and won't be inconveniencing you with my custom any more. It's been a waste of money all season.

Nicola - I seriously suggest that FFC approaches whoever provides Wolves with their audio service. It works perfectly.

Perhaps the only viable choice you have Holders but a very good suggestion put to the Club.  Let's see if the Club wise up about their choice of media supplier and look at alternatives.  I guess that will depend upon just how long and profitable streamamg's contract is .... same old ...

Not that it's a major issue but the Wolves commentary was free! It was also quite impartial.

[Southcoastffc]

FWIW  A year or so ago I had, similar to Holders, largely fruitless communication with ffctv and the club about the consistently poor service provided by ffctv.  I also raised the issue with FST but, apart from initial expressions of sympathy, there was little support forthcoming there either.