Corruption or pure incompetence?

[Watford_fc]

I do t think it's corruption.

All the games this weekend that I watched the refs didn't go over to the monitor, it looked like they were being told the decision. If that's the model we're following then we need more scrutiny for the VAR officials.

So many mistakes this weekend, Arsenal got a penalty that should never have been one- absolute madness. VAR was created to stop clear and obvious mistakes, it was never meant to change every single decision. I would rather revert to how it was before- no VAR, but we keep the goal line technology

I think I disagree with you on the Arsenal pen, I thought the pool player definitely kicked the back of Jesus calf, wasn't enough to put him on the floor, but I thought it was correct at the time, although to be honest I haven't seen any replays.

Even Dermot Gallagher said the penalty decisions at Arsenal were the wrong calls - certainly said he was surprised that handball wasn't looked at .

Jesus incident was the sort that you can understand being given by the ref and probably wasn't a clear enough  error to over turn it .

But wasn't a nail on penalty.

They probably didn't want to upset Arteta even more as he was basically running the game literally on the pitch!

At Anfield we might have seen very different decisions!

[bobby01]

I don't know why people are surprised. John Moss, the most unfit, and usually incompetent referee when he was on the pitch, retired last season.

Loaned behold he is rewarded with job that put him in charge of everything to do with VAR.

IMO the PGMOL, should be replaced by an independent run company, where the jobs for the boys would not be given out on favour.

I have no idea what H Webbs role will be in this closed shop when he assumes his position whenever that may be.

[Black and White Town]

Rashford goal disallowed, West ham goals allowed. All down to human error or corruption.
var is only good for offside or line calls, any decision, fouls handballs etc will always be controversial.
Might as well stick to one ref for those  calls because Var is f@cking useless.

According to the BBC who spoke to VAR it has all to do with the phases of play. What utter bollox!

So we are penalised because Leno saved the first attempt? As you say, bollox

[SG]

I don't know why people are surprised. John Moss, the most unfit, and usually incompetent referee when he was on the pitch, retired last season.

Loaned behold he is rewarded with job that put him in charge of everything to do with VAR.

IMO the PGMOL, should be replaced by an independent run company, where the jobs for the boys would not be given out on favour.

I have no idea what H Webbs role will be in this closed shop when he assumes his position whenever that may be.

Webb starts in a month or so and replaces that useless winker Riley who was useless as a ref and equally useless heading up PGMOL. Hopefully he'll get a grip of these tossers and bring some consistency

[colinwhite]

The of majority controversial situations can only be judged subjectively . Off-side is the classic example of this for me. You can take it  down to hair widths but it is still never objective ,as it comes down to how close you go and where you draw the line. Other so -called rules are often over complicated and still open to interpretation . Which makes the whole ridiculous process of VAR absurd and frankly at times embarrassing in both making many decisions more vague and serving to undermine referees.
Give me the flawed judgement of the human eye any time as long as the referee is consistent in his refereeing and unbiased. What sort of referees are being created by Var ? Ones finding decisions more difficult to make in a system setting them up to fail.

[southwest6]

The of majority controversial situations can only be judged subjectively . Off-side is the classic example of this for me. You can take it  down to hair widths but it is still never objective ,as it comes down to how close you go and where you draw the line. Other so -called rules are often over complicated and still open to interpretation . Which makes the whole ridiculous process of VAR absurd and frankly at times embarrassing in both making many decisions more vague and serving to undermine referees.
Give me the flawed judgement of the human eye any time as long as the referee is consistent in his refereeing and unbiased. What sort of referees are being created by Var ? Ones finding decisions more difficult to make in a system setting them up to fail.

talking about offsides, arsenals first goal looked offside IMO, and VAR supposedly couldn't use the calibrated offside lines because Saka was out of sight from the FIVE hawkeye cameras when White played the ball...

[filham]

The of majority controversial situations can only be judged subjectively . Off-side is the classic example of this for me. You can take it  down to hair widths but it is still never objective ,as it comes down to how close you go and where you draw the line. Other so -called rules are often over complicated and still open to interpretation . Which makes the whole ridiculous process of VAR absurd and frankly at times embarrassing in both making many decisions more vague and serving to undermine referees.
Give me the flawed judgement of the human eye any time as long as the referee is consistent in his refereeing and unbiased. What sort of referees are being created by Var ? Ones finding decisions more difficult to make in a system setting them up to fail.

So right, Var has , if anything , increased disputes and controversy as well as introducing annoying delays.

[Enfield]

It's corruption at the highest level, the establishment are terrified of Khan's billions and don't want another seat at the table. Will do anything to get us relegated, as they did the previous two times.

[legana]

Who knows if there is any corruption. However, bias must certainly play a part. Presumably the referees have grown up enjoying football and surely must have an opinion regarding which clubs they like more and those they like less, as every fan would. Intimidation from the crowds and social media backlash will also have an influence.

[S.F.Sorrow]

I don't think the refs are corrupt but the system seems to be. I mean, someone in high places must be making LOTS of money on VAR or it would have been dropped long ago. It's utterly useless and completely ruins football.

[Somerset Fulham]

It's corruption at the highest level, the establishment are terrified of Khan's billions and don't want another seat at the table. Will do anything to get us relegated, as they did the previous two times.

Eh?

Did they buy us a really rubbish team or give us managers that weren't up to the job then?

In a thread full of madness, this one is clear by about a furlong.

[Logicalman]

A referee has to climb through the 9 levels of refereeing including reaching level 1.
He is responsible in enforcing the 17 laws of the game.
To get to that level he has gone through much monitoring and accessing, practical, theory and oral.
So by the time he gets to Premier League Level he is identified as being the cream of the cream.
Taking into account that they are only human and mistakes can happen and they can only give what they see as they do not have eyes in the back of their head.
However, they have the support of two assistant referees a 4th official and now VAR.
Plenty of eyes for the back of his head you would have thought.

So a referee at that level cannot be incompetent, otherwise he would not have reached that level in the first place.

So corruption comes to mind, it has happened in the past especially in European cup competitions.
Therefore in the absence of another reason it is natural that we have to ask what on earth goes through a referees head, if he is bottling a big decision that is cheating, if he pretends he did not see it that is cheating, if he clearly favours the big clubs because he is in awe of their players and the club or is he intimidated by the players and the club.
Does he decide it is best to take the soft way out and penalise the smaller club as it would be easier, who knows what goes through their minds at that moment.
Then you add VAR into the equation and justice is still not seen to be done, and this happens far too often to overlooked in my opinion.
Then my feelings are that it is not incompetence it is nothing less than corruption.

This appears a fair and logical constructive and unemotional aregument. It's sad to say this, but the conclusion is valid.

Unfortunately we have seen the same in the past, through UEFA and up to FIFA, the latter of which, of course, was only adjudicated following an FBI investigation. Unfortunately there is no British or European Force with the same power and poltically-free of influence, that would be in a position to do the same, again something I hang my head at having to point out.

Unless someone with enough influence in the game does speak out, and can withstand the obvious PGMOL backlash, then we will never have as much an open and fair game as we all wish it to be.

[EricB]

Sadly our referees are not at the same standard as the rest of the Premier League set up.  Teams search the globe to find best players, managers, coaches and even owners, but put up with old boys network to provide the most influential person on the park!  Time is well overdue to pay the best refs in the world the highest pay in the world to come and officiate the best league in the world. I remember watching Collina reffing us at Loftus rd, he was different class. Not saying all our refs are not up to standard just some.  Any thoughts as to why we don't the best referees?

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

I would suggest bringing back Roger Kirkpatrick, sadly this colourful referee died in 2013.
I'll always remember this chubby, squatty legged, baldy, charging up and down the pitch.

There should be at least 2 VAR chaps.
Nose hairs, length of noses and eye brows should be taken into consideration for offside.

The rules need to be changed because it is impossible for the 'linespersons' to judge exactly
where the attacking player was when, for example, a defender or goalkeeper sends through            a long pass.
Drones would get a more comprehensive view.
Dragonflies could be recruited with their sight.

Finally, bring back goal hanging and uses 2 jumpers as goal posts.

Seriously, I'm as p**sed off as everyone about all of their goals, paticularly the
Dawson charge and his neck strangle hold.
OK, so Pereira was a bit stupid, but a quick thinking captain would have moved
him to a diffefrent defensive place.
The only thought from the twit with the whistle I can think of is "Nah, Nah, Nah Nah Nah"
I warned you so"
An emotional decision or a rational "6 of one"  this happens numerous times in every game.

If Mo was still with us, his lawyers would have has a call by now  :0)

[Andy S]

I think that corruption of referees is fiction. I know there is money in it but referees are paid a good wage and have a reasonable career these days. They also have to say who they support so things can be looked at closely. It really isn't worth it

[SuffolkWhite]

Anybody see the Citeh goal disallowed from last nights game? Handball according to VAR!!!!!!

[The Cravenette]

It's corruption at the highest level, the establishment are terrified of Khan's billions and don't want another seat at the table. Will do anything to get us relegated, as they did the previous two times.

Eh?

Did they buy us a really rubbish team or give us managers that weren't up to the job then?

In a thread full of madness, this one is clear by about a furlong.

I may be wrong but I think Enfield was being sarcastic.

[toshes mate]

I think that corruption of referees is fiction. I know there is money in it but referees are paid a good wage and have a reasonable career these days. They also have to say who they support so things can be looked at closely. It really isn't worth it

Refereeing is a tough 'career path' especially at the beginning when you may get expenses but that is it.  The abuse comes free.   What personalities are likely to stick with it?  Do the authorities support their starters and ensure they make it to the next step up the ladder?   Many stop treading the path citing lack of support when it is needed most. 

By the time a referee is fit for professional league football they are going to have an amazingly tough skin and a very thorough understanding of the game and yet nonsense like Sunday happens.  How do you explain it it if isn't something underhand?  For sure referees have bad days but Sunday was a disaster deserving of its very own inquisition ... and that is sheer neglect from Mr Kavanagh (couldn't care less attitude) which suggests the incompetence runs pretty deep and therefore closer to corruption than it should or needs to be.   VAR simply spreads the blame - Mr Kavanagh' s get out of gaol free card. 

[Somerset Fulham]

It's corruption at the highest level, the establishment are terrified of Khan's billions and don't want another seat at the table. Will do anything to get us relegated, as they did the previous two times.

Eh?

Did they buy us a really rubbish team or give us managers that weren't up to the job then?

In a thread full of madness, this one is clear by about a furlong.

I may be wrong but I think Enfield was being sarcastic.

Ah, I didn't read it that way but apologies if that was the case.

[cookieg]

Long gone are the days when a ref was seen and not heard, apart from his whistle of course, but now it's as if they want to be the centre of attention. I've no idea why there has to be such flamboyant gestures by some refs when awarding a penalty it's become all so theatrical. Uriah Rene was probably one of the first who thought he was bigger than his job.

I can accept a genuine mistake by a ref who is unsighted but to have a second ref looking at several replays and still making glaring mistakes is no longer acceptable.