Unbelievable!

[Chrisjo]

Just read on Sky Sports News that Gareth Southgate says that Ivan Toney 'needs looking after' following his 8 month ban and that his call up to the Euro'24 England squad won't be jeopardised. I don't remember anyone from the media or anywhere else in the footballing world saying that Mitro needed looking after when he received his unjust (in my opinion) 8 match ban. Another case of double standards. Ivan Toney is a convicted cheat and should face the consequences of his punishment fair and square.

[Burt]

Unless "looking after" in this context relates to him receiving counselling and support with any gambling addiction he may have...?

[Sgt Fulham]

He's been sentenced to an 8 month ban. So long as he completes that, and 'help' doesn't compromise the ban, I'm all for it. He's only human.

[KJS]

Personally I think 8 months was too lenient for the amount of charges!! It should have been at least 12 months and a minimum 2 year ban from representing his country🤬

[filham]

If the help refers to counselling for gambling then ok.
It is necessary to keep emphasizing that the 8 month ban equates only to a 4 month football ban.

[_Putney_]

He is a person.

[bencher]

If the help refers to counselling for gambling then ok.
It is necessary to keep emphasizing that the 8 month ban equates only to a 4 month football ban.

Not when you factor in England matches taking place in June

[Stevieboy]

It wasn't an oblivious accident he premeditatedly flouted FA rules on hundreds of occasions.
Mitro was a split second of impassioned madness.

[Ludlow Richard]

It's clear that Southgate is not supportive of Toney's ban. His comment about speaking to Toney and sarcastically speculating as to whether that was allowed diminishes the reasoning behind the ban and suggests that Southgate really does not believe the penalty was appropriate.

I like Southgate. But it is really not his place to call into question the decision to ban Toney.

[Somerset Fulham]

Surely he simply meant that the guy needs looking after mentally?

Mitro has gone on record as saying that eight weeks was hard enough, eight months (whether the kangaroo court of opinion deem it a long enough punishment or not) must be absolutely savage for a professional athlete's state of mind.

[cookieg]

Surely his employer would be the first port of call for any help he needs if he has a problem at all. He might just like a bet but if it's anything else then Brentford should be looking after him.

[Holders]

If he's weak enough to succumb to gambling to the extent that he can't resist betting on football with all the risks of which he'd surely be aware then he does need help. In a profession like football where he's an expensive asset to his employers then I'd be amazed if Brentford aren't already doing that but it's hardly something that would be publicised.

I'm reminded of the contrast with the case years ago of a footballer (Merson?) who admitted to a drug problem and got banned. He could have kept quiet.

Rehabilitation is a fine thing so long as the practice ceases and footballers are in an advantageous position to obtain this compared to more humble mortals.

[toshes mate]

As I have said on the other thread encompassing addictions the addicted individual is the one who must change and there is no support on this Earth that can speed that process up other then the hardships of addiction. Those hardhips include being banned, being heavily fined for breaches of employment contracts, which may make demands about behaviour (e.g. a criminal record may be sufficient for you to lose your job without recompense). Pandering to him the way he has been handled by the authorities is not IMO helping him at all. Does Toney want his cake and eat it, or are the football authorities the ones who need to grow a pair, because someone somewhere has not handled this appropriately? 

Toney should stop acting the victim if that is the issue.  He has enough income to afford the best psychiatrist, not that they'll tell him any different than any other addict at xxxx anonymous.  I have no sympathy for him at all.  I have sympathy for those in his profession he has and is letting down. 

He needs to sort himself and should have done it years ago with appropriate pressure from authority figures. Once upon a time it was called cruel love the second word indicative of the real love that is shown by the person requiring the addict to show real strength.  This incident should not have happened.

[RaySmith]

If he's weak enough to succumb to gambling to the extent that he can't resist betting on football with all the risks of which he'd surely be aware then he does need help. In a profession like football where he's an expensive asset to his employers then I'd be amazed if Brentford aren't already doing that but it's hardly something that would be publicised.

I'm reminded of the contrast with the case years ago of a footballer (Merson?) who admitted to a drug problem and got banned. He could have kept quiet.

Rehabilitation is a fine thing so long as the practice ceases and footballers are in an advantageous position to obtain this compared to more humble mortals.

Good post.
IF he was/is addicted, then it's an inner compulsion, doesn't heed rational, common sense - his conscious, rational mind was surely telling him that this was potentially risking his whole career and well - being, but an inner force would have compelled him on.

Have read Merson's book, very powerful account of being addicted to booze and drugs as well as gambling. I think coming clean, and admitting this in public was part of his recovery.
Obviously a deep seated inner problem, mental health problem if you like, behind these very self - destructive  behaviours.

Listening to Southgate on 5Live this morning, and he seemed concerned about the player as an England player, and the effects on him mentally being out of the game for so long, and hoped he would be able to train with other players.

He seemed concerned for him on a personal level too - couldn't tell if he was against the length of the ban- but, yes, that might be one interpretation of what he said, and his tone of voice.

[toshes mate]

I have been a life long fan of Eric Berne, an American psychiatrist who discovered transactional anaylysis of various problem states and the games people play or the scripts they read.  Berne gave names to these games/scripts which can be seen in this list which covers all addictions despite the title :


https://dylankerraddictiontherapy.com/2019/05/24/the-games-alcoholics-play/


His books are well worth reading just to recognise/understand our own personal games/scripts (we all have them).  Berne was not very popular with his profession in his time but his success rate with clients was phenomenal.

[Holders]

I can understand Southgate's point of view, maybe he just didn't express it particularly clearly.

I felt sorry for Merson who "fessed up" but got rather harshly treated, I felt. Certainly compared to Toney. Merson got the rehabilitation - because he wanted to - and all credit to him.

I may be wrong but I have a view of many modern footballers seeing themselves as so used to enormous sums of money enabling them to buy or do almost anything that they may feel "invincible". In other words, the wealth adds to the mental weakness or vulnerability that they have in the first place. There are exceptions, of course like the well-grounded Ream and others but it's a bit like in the old days the choice between joining the army and a life of crime.

Footballers succeed because of their skill not their intellect and in these circumstances that must make them more vulnerable.

This is not an excuse for any of this but it first helps to understand the possible reasons.

IMHO.

[Holders]

I have been a life long fan of Eric Berne, an American psychiatrist who discovered transactional anaylysis of various problem states and the games people play or the scripts they read.  Berne gave names to these games/scripts which can be seen in this list which covers all addictions despite the title :


https://dylankerraddictiontherapy.com/2019/05/24/the-games-alcoholics-play/


His books are well worth reading just to recognise/understand our own personal games/scripts (we all have them).  Berne was not very popular with his profession in his time but his success rate with clients was phenomenal.

An excellent article. In simple transactional analysis, Toney is a C (my point above). Brentford need to act as P until such time as he can be elevated to A.

[alfie]

It's clear that Southgate is not supportive of Toney's ban. His comment about speaking to Toney and sarcastically speculating as to whether that was allowed diminishes the reasoning behind the ban and suggests that Southgate really does not believe the penalty was appropriate.

I like Southgate. But it is really not his place to call into question the decision to ban Toney.

I'm not quite sure where you get that Southgate does not believe the penalty was appropriate.
All I get from it was that he was supportive of him.

[Willham]

As a former drug taker, and a former big gambler and a former alcoholic, my personal view of addiction mostly follows this idea https://youtu.be/tdJAQZxJ6vY

We look at addiction all wrong these day.

[filham]

If the help refers to counselling for gambling then ok.
It is necessary to keep emphasizing that the 8 month ban equates only to a 4 month football ban.

Not when you factor in England matches taking place in June

Yes , I had overlooked that but it is certainly well short a seasons football, 38 matches.