Justifiable Outrage

[ron]

From several new threads lately I detect a growing sense of outrage from several posters about the contempt the club is showing to rank and file supporters in terms of ticket prices. Surely there are many more with the same feeling who don't post, and many thousands more who don't read these pages.
I hope the club management reads these threads and considers its actions - for instance demanding under fives now have to have tickets - instead of just mocking genuine loyalty by saying something like;"Don't worry, support is a tribal thing and they'll all pay up, no matter what.."
Morality and loyalty - from the club towards its regular supporters- will always have a tough time in competing against naked greed, but over the years we supporters have always expected more, much, much more from our special club and the family feel that it has shown over the years.

[General]

This has been an ongoing discussion on here with many if not most in agreement that it is slightly abhorrent.

Noone begrudge a club upping ticket prices from time to time, but the club went to another level with its more recent prices and has angered a fair few and also priced out a number of long term supporters.

£3k for a season ticket is the highest price in the league, above all of the big clubs without exception.

£100 tickets for the Riverside stand which is far from perfect as a stand is also among the highest in the league and there's no or little difference to it changing if we play even the worst teams in the league.

Some suggest it is because of the stand and recouping costs, but the amount the stand costs, including the price of the tickets for the Riverside and the increased amount means even when you do the maths its excessive and an aggressive timeframe to recoup costs and not necessary.

The fulham supporters Trust did a survey of fulham fans a while back citing findings that across the board suggested fans were unhappy and the pricing would effect their attendance to games, but nothing has seemingly come of it which suggests the club doesn't really care enough or hasn't been pressured enough to care.

There was initial uproar and the press did cover it but the club posted a video interview with shahid saying the sentence 'We want the club to be sustainable and competitive' as a justification and everyone got placated.

I don't think the prices are justified even then though to be honest. Gate receipts make very little difference to the overall running costs of a club as most money comes from merchandising, TV and sponsorship agreements.

Sadly though the backdrop narrative from the club has been record season ticket sales, waiting lists and sold out games (though how true those are is anyone's guess, especially with a half opened stand).

I'm one of those increasingly disenchanted with fulham as a club under the current ownership but can't stop myself from supporting the team, even if it's seeing them less live. It's not an affordability question though for me, it's much more a principle and value for money thing.

As many have said on here the cost for a dad and two children is, when in particular put against the average UK and London wage, is simply prohibitive.

It for me also showed significantly with the drop off of fans in our preseason games. Where we used to have full or almost full attendances to pre season games, last pre season we had an empty Riverside, putney ends and 2/3rds (or what seemed like it) of the Hammersmith end full and then the JH stand full. It's a significant sign for me.

The thing is tourists will pay it and, the club did a survey of their own years ago which asked the average fan their salary and it averaged out as higher than most.. so they probably think they're well within their right and target range for the catchment area.

I do know people who have started to go who aren't fulham fans because they can, but they don't care about the club, they just want to see Premier league football.

A genuine concern of mine is if things were to go wrong at the club to the degree that the club got sold and went down a couple of league's (which hopefully won't happen but has happened to many teams over the years), we would struggle to rebuild as the core supporter base just wouldn't be there and those who've replaced them wouldn't care enough to attend.

All in all its crass commercialism over anything beyond that, which given fulham has for so long been that friendly family club, is a shame.

[bobbo]

This has been an ongoing discussion on here with many if not most in agreement that it is slightly abhorrent.

Noone begrudge a club upping ticket prices from time to time, but the club went to another level with its more recent prices and has angered a fair few and also priced out a number of long term supporters.

£3k for a season ticket is the highest price in the league, above all of the big clubs without exception.

£100 tickets for the Riverside stand which is far from perfect as a stand is also among the highest in the league and there's no or little difference to it changing if we play even the worst teams in the league.

Some suggest it is because of the stand and recouping costs, but the amount the stand costs, including the price of the tickets for the Riverside and the increased amount means even when you do the maths its excessive and an aggressive timeframe to recoup costs and not necessary.

The fulham supporters Trust did a survey of fulham fans a while back citing findings that across the board suggested fans were unhappy and the pricing would effect their attendance to games, but nothing has seemingly come of it which suggests the club doesn't really care enough or hasn't been pressured enough to care.

There was initial uproar and the press did cover it but the club posted a video interview with shahid saying the sentence 'We want the club to be sustainable and competitive' as a justification and everyone got placated.

I don't think the prices are justified even then though to be honest. Gate receipts make very little difference to the overall running costs of a club as most money comes from merchandising, TV and sponsorship agreements.

Sadly though the backdrop narrative from the club has been record season ticket sales, waiting lists and sold out games (though how true those are is anyone's guess, especially with a half opened stand).

I'm one of those increasingly disenchanted with fulham as a club under the current ownership but can't stop myself from supporting the team, even if it's seeing them less live. It's not an affordability question though for me, it's much more a principle and value for money thing.

As many have said on here the cost for a dad and two children is, when in particular put against the average UK and London wage, is simply prohibitive.

It for me also showed significantly with the drop off of fans in our preseason games. Where we used to have full or almost full attendances to pre season games, last pre season we had an empty Riverside, putney ends and 2/3rds (or what seemed like it) of the Hammersmith end full and then the JH stand full. It's a significant sign for me.

The thing is tourists will pay it and, the club did a survey of their own years ago which asked the average fan their salary and it averaged out as higher than most.. so they probably think they're well within their right and target range for the catchment area.

I do know people who have started to go who aren't fulham fans because they can, but they don't care about the club, they just want to see Premier league football.

A genuine concern of mine is if things were to go wrong at the club to the degree that the club got sold and went down a couple of league's (which hopefully won't happen but has happened to many teams over the years), we would struggle to rebuild as the core supporter base just wouldn't be there and those who've replaced them wouldn't care enough to attend.

All in all its crass commercialism over anything beyond that, which given fulham has for so long been that friendly family club, is a shame.

well " GENERAL " I echo all you've said there and I often echo others views but can't put the so eloquently myself .
    I'm very similar general it wouldn't severely hurt me to have paid £2050 to have kept my seat in the riverside but as you've pointed out the Principle is paramount for me . I'm now in the Stevenage road stand ( Johnny Haynes ) and don't like it .
Highly likely to be curtains for me at the end of this season.makes me quite sad just to think of it but the Khans have no such feelings for the likes  of us .

[hovewhite]

Warned people this would happen when we got kicked out from the Riverside and given a far more expensive seat after the owner said the club must pay its own way.as much as I like the khan's ,this is an issue spiralling prices,charging under5s now that's callous.
I remember the market research exercise re a higher standard of living and boy have they milked it.
As for the supporters trust they've not done anything about this.

[bobbo]

Yeah hove but I'm not sure they're able to .

[Twig]

We are on a different path these days and it's not a path I like or feel comfortable with. The ever increasing avariciousness of our club's charging structure, their apparent disrespect for loyal supporters, the failure to upgrade essential services like toilets, all these things are causing me to drift away from attending.

I don't frankly know what we could do about it. I would attend and join in a protest but is there sufficient anger yet to provoke one? So many supporters are rather apathetic about it and the FST seems to be ignored by the club lately.

[Carborundum]

People want to watch Fulham in person, more people than ever before.  Seems undeniable and as such not everyone will necessarily be able to.

So why on earth do I settle myself into my JH stand seat to view the spectacle of......hundred and hundreds and hundreds of empty seats?  Yes I know the backstory.  But therein lies a controllable part of the answer to excessive pricing.  Most of the well-heeled people who would be sitting there aren't saying "well if I can't sit there, I just won't go".  They are saying, "I'll have to sit elsewhere in the ground".  And so it is those with the least purchasing power that miss out in the squeeze.

The club will no doubt have a well rehearsed set of lines to deflect criticism.  But the most obvious way to alleviate the problem is to pull out all the stops to acquaint those beautifully upholstered seats in the new stand with the backsides of paying Fulham fans ASAP.  All the stops.  All of them. 

[akf]

I agree with the sentiments posted by the OP and subsequent replies regarding the almost gratuitous raising of prices for entry.

I hope the club management reads these threads

I am no activist, but simply hoping that voices on this forum are heard will probably get nowhere. Sending emails to the club as well as posting here is probably a futile gesture, too, but it has a better chance of getting some attention.

[filham]

Sport has been taken over by big business and here we see supply and demand working hand in hand with uncontrolled capitalism. All we can do is talk with our feet and those in control know that we love our football at the Cottage too much to do that.

[Allprocro]

It's a business, welcome to the light.

Khan has written off more personal debt into the club then I can even imagine into existence. To question his commitment to the club or fans is laughable. You all should be ashamed.

[ffcthereligion]

It's a business, welcome to the light.

Khan has written off more personal debt into the club then I can even imagine into existence. To question his commitment to the club or fans is laughable. You all should be ashamed.

Nobody should be ashamed for feeling the way they do about prices rising so dramatically having loved Fulham for decades. Two things can be true at the same time about the Khans. I think you should reflect on why your response was to attack others in this instance

[General]

My concern is that, with the influx of foreign owners, the ultimate end goal is the product of the Premier League and not the geographic location.. a la the US sports model where teams move geographic location to appeal to different fans bases and raise more capital.. I.e. the NFL playing regular season games at Wembley.

That would've been escalated even more so if the khan's had bought Wembley.

The thing is the US is much bigger and the money generated there is too, which means that targeting countries like the UK is relatively straightforward.

80% or so of investment capital comes from  within the US globally. Let that sink in.

And you can see these owners, including the khan's, creating a business case for the commercial benefits of a team that travels and becomes a spectacle that can charge higher fees in front of our eyes.

It's almost a direct threat to our economy and countries interests though if that happens, so you'll have to keep an eye out for a government appointment that seems lenient to it happening and that may take years due to lobbying etc.

You see the gradual privatisation of the NHS and why not the PL given its global appeal?

That would be what commercially minded people would think, especially when they've not got the emotional attachment to what the league or football means to the country.

That is in essence what the super league tried to do by creating its breakaway league.

But you just have to look at how Man Utd, Chelsea and even Barcelona have done since financially and or on the pitch to have evidence they're undeserving of a golden handshake because they can't even maintain competitiveness in their own league's as more teams get bought by wealthier owners and buy better players and managers.

[General]

It's a business, welcome to the light.

Khan has written off more personal debt into the club then I can even imagine into existence. To question his commitment to the club or fans is laughable. You all should be ashamed.

The difference being you think business is above values and any ability to have a modicum of sensibility around pricing.

Perhaps it's worth you putting perspective to the wealth he's written off.

Currently shahid Khan is worth 12.2 billion USD. Writing off £100m for instance would equate to less than 1% of his wealth.

1% of 12.2bn usd is $122m usd.

The equivalent to that is having 3 grand in savings and writing off £30

10k in savings and writing off £100.. which in London you could quire easily spend on a night out. Or perhaps a better example, a fulham match day ticket.

You may say, but the numbers are different.. perhaps, but an individuals perspective in terms of what's change and what's significant in terms of value doesn't change that drastically when in a different perspective and with different sums.

[Rupert]

Are any of those vehemently opposed to the current pricing/management structure/basic existence of TK also the fans who are demanding we buy star players and qualify for Europe?

Not moralising, just wondering?

For years, back in the day, we were the cheap option for football in London. We were the last top flight team to buy floodlights. The team and ground lacked any serious investment. We went into serious decline, with the odd bout of optimism for a season or two.
Personally, I would rather not go back to those days, but I bow to the right of others to prefer we do.
Of course, now the club has embarked on this high price strategy, I would argue that we, the long suffering fans, are entitled to expect more bang for our buck, so we should be attracting a higher calibre of player than in the past, and we should be looking to cement our place in the top flight. Otherwise, this strategy will fail.
So, I do see this as putting more pressure on the club to succeed, to justify the choices currently being made.

[blingo]

Money talks and two hundred supporters whingeing about prices won't affect the Khan's outlook in the slightest

[General]

Are any of those vehemently opposed to the current pricing/management structure/basic existence of TK also the fans who are demanding we buy star players and qualify for Europe?

Not moralising, just wondering?

For years, back in the day, we were the cheap option for football in London. We were the last top flight team to buy floodlights. The team and ground lacked any serious investment. We went into serious decline, with the odd bout of optimism for a season or two.
Personally, I would rather not go back to those days, but I bow to the right of others to prefer we do.
Of course, now the club has embarked on this high price strategy, I would argue that we, the long suffering fans, are entitled to expect more bang for our buck, so we should be attracting a higher calibre of player than in the past, and we should be looking to cement our place in the top flight. Otherwise, this strategy will fail.
So, I do see this as putting more pressure on the club to succeed, to justify the choices currently being made.

Lol. We bought palhinha for £20m and mitro for a similar sum and could've got over £100m in the summer for them.

We bought Castagne for less than £10m, Robinson for £2.5m from Wigan and that was a kind gesture as they were in financial difficulty. Leno cost less than £10m. Tete cost £6m? Cairney? Ream? Pereira? Willian we got on a free? Same with traore?

And we were competitive against most teams last year and arguably could've finished in the top 8.

You don't need to spend abhorrent amounts to buy decent quality or high quality players that can improve you as a club, especially if spread out over multiple windows and dome incrementally (which is what most clubs do - Chelsea aside).

Brighton starting lineup on the weekend cost the £16.5 m according to a visual on twitter with many of their starting line up being signed for frees or at a young age.

Somewhere along the lines people have got caught up in a narrative of 'that's just the way things are these days' and it's just not the case.

Like the 'cost of living crisis' being a thing that we all should put up with when it's got as much to do with poor governance than anything else coupled with a bit of greed.

Case in point, I went to a pub in London on the weekend and found a well known branded cider and pint for under a fiver each. Showing you that there are workarounds to keep prices down or that they simply just are costed less than retailers are willing to charge. And guess what, the pub was packed and popular, which will come as little surprise given most pubs in London charge over £6 for a pint and sometimes over £7.

You only need to travel almost anywhere to know that you can still have a cheap and affordable way of living in most countries to pop that bubble.

[ron]

It's a business, welcome to the light.

Khan has written off more personal debt into the club then I can even imagine into existence. To question his commitment to the club or fans is laughable. You all should be ashamed.

 I think you're blinded by the light...

....there's no shame here, especially as the level of his commitment to the club is a separate issue from the main substance of this thread.

[Lighthouse]

I believe it goes deeper than just Fulham the family club. We now live in a World that accepts greed as a sign of life and something to be proud of. Look at Mitro. We live in a World where the system feeds the greed. Can't pay because you can't afford it then strike and leave others in pain. We care less about the big picture as individuals and more about ourselves. How does this come back on me?

We are huge and powerful. But we have never actually said to the super rich, the super stupid that run our game, the super selfish that run our systems. No no more. There is a better way. Instead we get the same tugging of the forelock and the idiotic, well that is just how business is.

One day I hope there will be a reckoning. But we are all too selfish to stop and face hardship and do something about it. So we remain outraged and very cross and the powers that be giggle and snort and tap us on our heads and tell us we have the power to vote in another system the same as the last.

Justifiable outrage? But time to turn the music up or the telly on. Nobody wants to bother themselves with changing the failed system.

[alfie]

Apart from my health the other reason I don't go is because of ticket prices, but in saying that I have an acquaintance of mine who is a fanatical supporter was giving it hell about having to pay £100 to watch Fulham, yet a week later he happily paid out near £400 to watch Diana Ross.
Personally I wouldn't pay 40p to watch her, but that's just me.

[Baszab]

I love the way we are all so grovelling to the Khans

Does anyone in their right mind think they bought the club because they support FFC/ like the fans ?

It's all about business and returns, so please let's not kid ourselves

To be honest, so was MAF's motive for purchase - he would have asset stripped but he got in those funds from Sultan of Brunei and gradually changed his ideas after the Hamilton and Lonhro rows