Do we lack that winning mentality

[KentFulham]

If we don't have a winning mentality then it comes from Marco. Unnecessary changes cost us tonight.

We can't possibly know that the changes were not necessary . He mentioned a few players having knocks. If we had won (which we probably should have done with that eleven ) it would have looked like. shrewd piece of squad frustration. What it did show is that we are short in central midfield and that both Robinson and Muniz have a  long way to go to get back to their pre injury form /physical status.

Wilson was the only player injured. I think Marco took this game too lightly and we got punished.

Agree.Just crazy tinkering

[southwest6]

I was a bit surprised when I saw the lineup. Personally, I would have kept the same team barring Wilson. While spurs are a truly awful team, I do think that we played decent with some really nice combinations; it just seemed to me to be a bit unnecessary to change the team substantially given we have a cup game on Sunday, albeit a big one. As others have said, that team on the pitch still had the quality to beat west ham, but from the first minute you could tell which team were up for it, with west ham pressing really high and aggressive in the duels. After a few early misplaced passes from Berge and others, our composure evaporated and players all over the pitch began to hide.

If i'm being honest, i did say to my brother before the game that I thought we would lose tonight, not because West ham are a particularly good team, but because a) this game meant a lot more to west ham, and b), we just don't seem to have the mentality for these kind of dogfights.

Still plenty to play for and to be excited for in both the league and in the cup! If anything, we do seem to bounce back really well, so expecting a strong performance against southampton. Against Forest? Hmm a bit nervous about that one as well, especially after the city result 

Anyway, if it's any consolation, it does make tonight's game really interesting  and spurs might actually go down

[southwest6]

I was a bit surprised when I saw the lineup. Personally, I would have kept the same team barring Wilson. While spurs are a truly awful team, I do think that we played decent with some really nice combinations; it just seemed to me to be a bit unnecessary to change the team substantially given we have a cup game on Sunday, albeit a big one. As others have said, that team on the pitch still had the quality to beat west ham, but from the first minute you could tell which team was up for it, with west ham pressing really high and aggressive in the duels. After a few early misplaced passes from Berge and others, our composure evaporated and players all over the pitch began to hide.

If i'm being honest, i did say to my brother before the game that I thought we would lose tonight, not because West ham are a particularly good team, but because a) this game meant a lot more to west ham, and b), we just don't seem to have the mentality for these kind of dogfights.

Still plenty to play for and to be excited for in both the league and in the cup! If anything, we do seem to bounce back really well, so expecting a strong performance against southampton. Against Forest? Hmm a bit nervous about that one as well, especially after the city result 

Anyway, if it's any consolation, it does make tonight's game really interesting  and spurs might actually go down

[southwest6]

I was a bit surprised when I saw the lineup. Personally, I would have kept the same team barring Wilson. While spurs are a truly awful team, I do think that we played decent with some really nice combinations; it just seemed to me to be a bit unnecessary to change the team substantially given we have a cup game on Sunday, albeit a big one. As others have said, however,  that team on the pitch still had the quality to beat west ham, but from the first minute you could tell which team was up for it, with west ham pressing really high and aggressive in the duels. After a few early misplaced passes from Berge and others, our composure evaporated and players all over the pitch began to hide.

If i'm being honest, i did say to my brother before the game that I thought we would lose tonight, not because West ham are a particularly good team, but because a) this game meant a lot more to west ham, and b), we just don't seem to have the mentality for these kind of dogfights.

Still plenty to play for and to be excited for in both the league and in the cup! If anything, we do seem to bounce back really well, so expecting a strong performance against southampton. Against Forest? Hmm a bit nervous about that one as well, especially after the city result 

Anyway, if it's any consolation, it does make tonight's game really interesting  and spurs might actually go down

[Bill2]

Said it last season and again this season. We have too many players who cannot score a goal. Apart from Harry with 11 the next beat is Raul with 9, Emile and Alex with 5 a piece and they are not all Premier League goals. Sander Berge has the same amount as last season none and Lukic two, a woeful return. The fans in row Z have more to fear from their shots than opposition keepers. Looking at last night's game I appreciate Berge has a problem with controlling the ball and his first touch was terrible but next time he is shooting perhaps he should aim for the corner flag and he may just get one on target.

[ScalleysDad]

Alas we have a number of games in quick succession where the opposition is going to fighting hard for progress in the cup or three vital points, Forest and Burnley. God forbid we put up a similar 'fight' against Burnley.

[Take Me Home]

Completely agree.

There is a fundamental problem with this group of players that they can get into a position to kick on, but then lose every time.

Whenever they have a chance to be something more and punch above their weight they flop.

The Crystal Palace QF last season summed it up.

Europe is there for the taking this year and I fear we will fall short.

[HV71]

We have a lot of talented players who like to play with a smile on their face - and that's not a bad thing. However we do lack the older head that is vocal and capable of rallying those around him . We need a Kev Mac or Ream type of player to sort things out on the pitch- I don't see anyone like that  - there is no one commanding enough.

[Jules]

Some of it is mentality, but a lot of it is tactics. Like others have said, the amount of times we pass back to Leno and back across the line, into midfield,back to Leno. Its all so slow and predictable. I'd like us to be more forward thinking, on the front foot. We do so many short goal kicks and free kicks backwards. West Ham loved it as they just pressed us into giving away throws and losing possession in our own half.
 Especially at home against a team in the bottom 3. We didn't really affect them in behind their back line at all yesterday. So static. Kings turn and shot was one of the only times.

[hopper]

We have a lot of talented players who like to play with a smile on their face - and that's not a bad thing. However we do lack the older head that is vocal and capable of rallying those around him . We need a Kev Mac or Ream type of player to sort things out on the pitch- I don't see anyone like that  - there is no one commanding enough.

Absolutely this, we've lost quite a few of these players. Even AP could rally and lead his teammates in difficult games, no one out there was doing that yesterday, and it's a bit of a vacuum in the squad.

[FFC1987]

I think its just a mixture of lacking consistency, and pressure. Lacking consistency is frustrating but happens to everyone. Buckling to pressure is where I just can;t get on with this side and struggled with it for years under Silva. They just have a knack of completely imploding in potentially key fixtures be it quarter finals, or league standings when a result against say Westham propels us into European spots but we just find a way to turn it into a difficult situation.

[WolverineFFC]

We have a lot of talented players who like to play with a smile on their face - and that's not a bad thing. However we do lack the older head that is vocal and capable of rallying those around him . We need a Kev Mac or Ream type of player to sort things out on the pitch- I don't see anyone like that  - there is no one commanding enough.

I think it's less about older, veteran heads out there and more about the "niceness" factor you describe. I think Tete and JA are the only 2 starters who have any of that necessary bite to their play or personality. I don't want a bunch of unsportsmanlike jerks out there, but the club needs a bit more grit in the roster to take the next step. It's why Joao was so immediately revered when he arrived. The supporters recognize this too.

[hopper]

We have a lot of talented players who like to play with a smile on their face - and that's not a bad thing. However we do lack the older head that is vocal and capable of rallying those around him . We need a Kev Mac or Ream type of player to sort things out on the pitch- I don't see anyone like that  - there is no one commanding enough.

I think it's less about older, veteran heads out there and more about the "niceness" factor you describe. I think Tete and JA are the only 2 starters who have any of that necessary bite to their play or personality. I don't want a bunch of unsportsmanlike jerks out there, but the club needs a bit more grit in the roster to take the next step. It's why Joao was so immediately revered when he arrived. The supporters recognize this too.

Yep and Mitro too, he was quite uncharacteristic for us in that sense. AP a bit as well.

We could have used these guys out there yesterday.

[WindyCity]

There has been some good commentary in this discussion.  Could be that the shortcomings converge on both players mentality and MS.  While it's true that MS has been the constant in the team recently, I do think it mostly lies on the players to go out and put a shift in.  These recent losses to Everton and WHU just can't happen for a team looking to move up the table.  It's becoming a pattern now for several seasons, and most times the chance to move up comes with poor showings v weaker opposition, or at least teams that we should be beating.  And some blame does fall on MS, he picks the team and the subs.  Not getting it right in these critical games for some reason.  Anyway, let's hope FFC can rebound from these disappointing outings and put a late season run of better shows.  Still a chance for top half, but this table is really getting clogged up in the middle.  Hoping the lads and MS can straighten things out.

[Hugh Janus]

All too often we get talked about as pushing for Europe, we get ourselves into a fighting chance an we bottle it.

I'm not sure if there isn't enough "winners" in the team or we lack a leader who can get the team by the scruff.

It's so annoying to watch and this west game summed it up, as did the Everton.

I think we are 3 players short of getting Europe. We have a great squad but not quite good enough. Marco I think rinses every drop he can out of a great team but we are a little shy on that top end quality. I look at Spurs who are about to implode if relegated not to mention the damage Europe has done to Forest, Palace etc. I'm very happy with how we are doing. I think many on here forget our history.

[The Rational Fan]

Every season Marco Silva's XI is statistical one of the most consistent lineups, this creates good chemistry among the players (making getting 40 points to avoid relegation easy), but also means players get a little burnt out (making getting 55+ points to quality for Europe hard).

[KentFulham]

Every season Marco Silva's XI is statistical one of the most consistent lineups, this creates good chemistry among the players (making getting 40 points to avoid relegation easy), but also means players get a little burnt out (making getting 55+ points to quality for Europe hard).

So it could be said Marco plays it safe and has a ceiling.

[HobGoblin]

All too often we get talked about as pushing for Europe, we get ourselves into a fighting chance an we bottle it.

I'm not sure if there isn't enough "winners" in the team or we lack a leader who can get the team by the scruff.

It's so annoying to watch and this west game summed it up, as did the Everton.

I think we are 3 players short of getting Europe. We have a great squad but not quite good enough. Marco I think rinses every drop he can out of a great team but we are a little shy on that top end quality. I look at Spurs who are about to implode if relegated not to mention the damage Europe has done to Forest, Palace etc. I'm very happy with how we are doing. I think many on here forget our history.

That's ok, let's not try to push on then, just be happy with our lot...

The players can do and need to push on, not rest on their laurels. MS made a **** up against Spam and that loss falls on him for far to much change of a winning side.

The side set out against Spurs if they'd had a bit better finishing would have won at a canter and should have stayed for the next match.

The lack of on the pitch leaders needs to be addressed for next season.

[ron]

Leadership and winning mentality are all very well, but quality finishers up front are what take us to the next stage.

[The Rational Fan]

Every season Marco Silva's XI is statistical one of the most consistent lineups, this creates good chemistry among the players (making getting 40 points to avoid relegation easy), but also means players get a little burnt out (making getting 55+ points to quality for Europe hard).

So it could be said Marco plays it safe and has a ceiling.

True that is one explanation, but an alternative explaination is if we want 56+ point and have the FFP budget then we need a little more squad depth to rotate and keep players fresher.