A Fulham supporter a couple of rows down from me in Block S summoned a couple of stewards to eject three Liverpool supporters (probably just up from Virginia Water)- a dad and his two teenage children- in the row in front of me. It seems the father had celebrated the Liverpool goal - though I didn't notice this and they were directly in front of me (admittedly I had my head in hands at the time) so it couln't have been too in-your-face. Anyway, the Fulham fan - an elderly gent in his seventies, I would say - was shouting angrily at them and pointed out the three of them to the stewards. The girl, about 15, looked visibly shocked and the father pleaded with the stewards to be allowed to stay and promised not to do or say anything further. Anyway, they were removed.
I have to say I thought the Fulham fan over-reacted - he was really angry, ranting really. I did feel sorry for the Liverpool fans and thought - yes, they shouldn't have been there but they were quiet (goal apart, it seems). It is a sad state of affairs when fans can't mix in the same way rugby fans do but the tribalism in football probably runs deeper and is more visceral. If they had been fans of ANY other club I probably would have intervened and asked the stewards to let them stay.
Try doing that at Anfield. I'm sure we've all sat in the wrong end but I have no sympathy for anyone who celebrates - asking for trouble.
An elderly angry fulham fan.
Is there a place that a few of them go to chat?
Oh, hang on
They shouldn't have been in the home supporters section. End of.
Yes We have all done it but you have to keep quiet and when the stewards come along tell them you are not a Liverpool or a Fulham fan and this is your first time at a football match................Hopefully you will be allowed to stay. As for supporters doing dirty business like that....................
Only at Fulham could you get a supporter come on a message board in a scenario such as this and say "I thought the Fulham supporter over reacted". It wouldn't happen at any other club. I have no sympathy for the adult Liverpool supporter here, and I'm 25% scouser.
I agree with both responses here, some level of sympathy combined with the 'what were they doing there' attitude.
The much bigger question for me is: How the hell did they manage to get tickets for those seats to begin with.
Did the father lie to the club and get a membership pretending to be a Fulham Fan?
Did a member get the tickets for them?
Was it an ST holder who gave them the ticket?
Either of the last two should see the member banned from CC and cancellation of their membership/ST for the remainder.
I too am in the riverside and had 5 Liverpool fans all in the row directly in front of me and they couldn't help themselves celebrate the first goal but only mildly.
I too am in my seventies and I do object to having them there but as long as there's no threat I'm not going to call a steward.
BTW we get this situation almost every home game against the big clubs, there were half a dozen Man U , few weeks ago and same amount of Chelsea last home game. It's not right but hey ho.
I also saw some being ejected from the Johnny Haynes stand.
Lastly I was surrounded by villa fans at Wembley in £95 seats and that started to get tetchy.
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
:54:
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on March 17, 2019, 07:50:15 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
:54:
Agreed.
Sick of other clubs taking the pi&& out of us and thinking you can just go in the home stand (among other things)
There are many rows of seats in the Riverside (and probably elsewhere) that I know are covered by ST's and yet different people sit there every game.
Sometimes middle class white families, sometimes east European young men, North Americans, Scandinavians etc etc
Clearly these tickets are sold on to "visitors" on a match by match basis, sometimes they are genuine tourists, sometimes not.
Funny enough this wasn't so much an issue while we were in the Championship!
Saw a Liverpool fan walking with a beer in his hand at half time, was in two minds to nudge him and spill his beer, but I prefer to take the moral high ground in these situstions.
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
You would have had to see the shocked expression on the face of the girl being shouted at. I didn't feel sorry for the adult but the kids seemed distressed. The boy was probably 12 or 13.
I am pleased to hear they were removed and good on the old guy, at least he had the balls to notify the stewards. It states on all tickets that no away fans are permitted in to 'home' arsas, so I am pleased they got what they deserved
Feels like the birth of the Riverside Ultras, well overdue & we've found a leader.
I've been in the home end several times, noteably v Villa and Man Utd in the cup run.
I'm surprised that some fans on here think it's possible to keep quiet if your team scores away
from home.
And more so considering the importance of both of Liverpools goals today.
It's pure instinct and passion, you can't just sit there and mutter to yourself "Good golly, we've just scored
and we're now top of the PS"
Worst is a Fuham fan creating such a fuss, but even worse is throwing them out like that
I at least got 2 warnings at Villa Park, fortunately we only scored 2 that day
Quote from: WokingFFC on March 17, 2019, 09:14:51 PM
I am pleased to hear they were removed and good on the old guy, at least he had the balls to notify the stewards. It states on all tickets that no away fans are permitted in to 'home' arsas, so I am pleased they got what they deserved
Yeah, but they didn't get what they deserved did they?
Proper football supporters would have gang raped the girl, sodomised the boy and chucked the father in the Thames. To listen to some on here, you'd think that football was only a game.
When Wimbledon played Liverpool in the Cup Final I won a ticket in a raffle. As I lived in Southfields I went to support Wimbledon. However I found myself in the Liverpool end. How I managed to stop from cheering the goal I don´t know.
Glad they were tossers out. The tossed.
I have had a few today.
Quote from: Neil D on March 17, 2019, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
You would have had to see the shocked expression on the face of the girl being shouted at. I didn't feel sorry for the adult but the kids seemed distressed. The boy was probably 12 or 13.
Hopefully their father will explain what a prat he is for putting them in that situation. He was supposed to be the adult, would he have done that at Millwall?
Throw them out, unceremoniously. Sorry but I paid a couple grand for my son and I to fly here and almost a grand more to sit in the "Super Box" only to have four of them celebrating the goals in front of us. How did they get in hospitality? Told them to shut the f up. Don't need them spoiling the one time a year I can get over here to see the team I love. Sod off...
I'm glad someone spoke up,what next 2 nuetral fans area,ridiculas.away fans not welcome in home end!!
Watch our goal. The first two or three rows of the Hammersmith end is full of Liverpool fans who don't celebrate our goal. No wonder it sold out ages ago
The one and only Abdul (biggest t*sser on Twitter) was giving tickets to away fans in the home end.
Club should bar him from going to games as he's openly admitted it.
I had a Liverpool fan with me today in the Hammy but he knew how to react to their goals. I have been in the home ends before as an away fan and if Fulham scored celebrated very quietly. If you are brazen with your celebration then you are a fool to think something wont kick off even at little old Fulham. What's worse the Dad has not educated his kids well for those situations on how to behave.
I agree if it could be like Rugby then no problem with me but in all honesty can you see us sat with Brentford or the HaHaHa's fans and not have some problems?! I don't think so.
There were the day's of no stand at the Putney end and Riversida and you could move from one end to the other. Those times have gone but this seems a little bit of over reaction to me
They shouldn't have been able to get tickets for a start-must have been either a through tout or a Fulham fan.
It's bad enough in the so called Neutral section, where you're usually sitting amongst away fans.
Stewards at most other grounds are so draconian to away fans in my experience, I can't imagine anyone getting away with obviously following Fulham by celebrating our goals.Stewards would probably have to intervene to save you from home fans if it was at Anfield.
I tend to be a live and let live type of person, but at the same time part of the enjoyment of being at the football is the sense that as a crowd things are just a little bit feral. Can't help it.
My reason for posting is to comment on the appearance of half and half scarf vendors outside the Cottage against the media-darling teams. Was commenting to Carborundum junior about who on earth buys that tat. Poorly made and single-use presumably. Then we walked past four blokes wearing them and heading for the JH turnstiles. Pretty sure they were Liverpool fans equipping themselves with a cover story. Of sorts.
Back to the thread topic. Indulging in one's kids football interest by shelling out to sit in the wrong section seems like irresponsible parenting. Makes me appreciate my own dad, who loathes football, but would on occasion take me. Then stood reading the paper for the entire game. True to himself and a top man.
There's not much worse at a football match when an away fan celebrates in the home part.
Segregation was imposed after the Liverpool tradgedy so why did he feel the need to make himself obvious?
Why do some people think that they are above the law?
Quote from: Neil D on March 17, 2019, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
You would have had to see the shocked expression on the face of the girl being shouted at. I didn't feel sorry for the adult but the kids seemed distressed. The boy was probably 12 or 13.
Makes me sick that non-threatening away fans are hounded out like this.
So they got tickets and mildly celebrated when they scored - so f****** what?
Hope those celebrating this are proud of themselves for being so hard on those two kids.
Away fans being lairy is one thing, and at any other club than Fulham they would get ejected by the fans themselves (or would soon want to be). However, this sounds like a bloke and his two kids causing people to get so enraged?
What is so wrong with our society that this old fella should have been so intolerant?
Quote from: Chesh on March 18, 2019, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 17, 2019, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
You would have had to see the shocked expression on the face of the girl being shouted at. I didn't feel sorry for the adult but the kids seemed distressed. The boy was probably 12 or 13.
Makes me sick that non-threatening away fans are hounded out like this.
So they got tickets and mildly celebrated when they scored - so f****** what?
Hope those celebrating this are proud of themselves for being so hard on those two kids.
Away fans being lairy is one thing, and at any other club than Fulham they would get ejected by the fans themselves (or would soon want to be). However, this sounds like a bloke and his two kids causing people to get so enraged?
What is so wrong with our society that this old fella should have been so intolerant?
Out of interest how would you feel if Fulham, given we're the country's softest club and already have a neutral stand, decided to blaze a trail by removing all segregation of fans and just letting everyone buy tickets wherever they want?
Quote from: Statto on March 18, 2019, 10:42:39 AM
Quote from: Chesh on March 18, 2019, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 17, 2019, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
You would have had to see the shocked expression on the face of the girl being shouted at. I didn't feel sorry for the adult but the kids seemed distressed. The boy was probably 12 or 13.
Makes me sick that non-threatening away fans are hounded out like this.
So they got tickets and mildly celebrated when they scored - so f****** what?
Hope those celebrating this are proud of themselves for being so hard on those two kids.
Away fans being lairy is one thing, and at any other club than Fulham they would get ejected by the fans themselves (or would soon want to be). However, this sounds like a bloke and his two kids causing people to get so enraged?
What is so wrong with our society that this old fella should have been so intolerant?
Out of interest how would you feel if Fulham, given we're the country's softest club and already have a neutral stand, decided to blaze a trail by removing all segregation of fans and just letting everyone buy tickets wherever they want?
No, I'd just like a sense of perspective.
I've been all over the country watching Fulham since the early 80s, and have also been to a lot of high profile games involving Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and West Ham during that time, when it was totally different.
In those days, you made yourself known as an away fan (even at Fulham) and you got a slap, so people knew the score.
Even nowadays, anyone in the wrong end taking the p*** deserves to get dealt with, either by the stewards or fans...BUT in this case the club cocked up with the ticket sales, and Liverpool fans managed to get tickets, either by membership, touts or Fulham fans they knew.
If some idiot leaves a gate open, and the horse has bolted, is it really that fair to shoot the horse, or is that just an easy target.
As I say, where I draw the line is where people with kids get spotted and hounded out for doing nothing other than showing a bit of delight when their team have scored.
Personally, although I've been in many home ends myself when I haven't been able to get a Fulham away ticket, I wouldn't do it with my kids, but then I'm not as naive as this Liverpool fan, and wouldn't want to waste my money or spoil my kids day out that they've probably looked forward to for weeks.
Quote from: Statto on March 18, 2019, 10:42:39 AM
Quote from: Chesh on March 18, 2019, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 17, 2019, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
You would have had to see the shocked expression on the face of the girl being shouted at. I didn't feel sorry for the adult but the kids seemed distressed. The boy was probably 12 or 13.
Makes me sick that non-threatening away fans are hounded out like this.
So they got tickets and mildly celebrated when they scored - so f****** what?
Hope those celebrating this are proud of themselves for being so hard on those two kids.
Away fans being lairy is one thing, and at any other club than Fulham they would get ejected by the fans themselves (or would soon want to be). However, this sounds like a bloke and his two kids causing people to get so enraged?
What is so wrong with our society that this old fella should have been so intolerant?
Out of interest how would you feel if Fulham, given we're the country's softest club and already have a neutral stand, decided to blaze a trail by removing all segregation of fans and just letting everyone buy tickets wherever they want?
I think people are being disrespectful to the man in his 70s saying he is overeacting, given when he was young having an away fan in the home end was a very dangerous prospect indeed. People need to respect the rules at football games, if someone is in the home end, they are allowed a little smile everytime Liverpool scores but no more otherwise they shouldn't be there.
Quote from: 70sPimlico on March 17, 2019, 07:13:11 PM
An elderly angry fulham fan.
Is there a place that a few of them go to chat?
Oh, hang on
064.gif
The rules have to be enforced when found to be blatantly broken, otherwise teams like Liverpool and Man U would just take over the Cottage.
I was in a home end at West ham when we won there in in Div. 2, about 1980, and celebrated a Fulham goal - we won the game, and was told by the police that I had to leave or I would be taken into protective custody - and I probably would have got a hiding from WH fans if i'd stayed.
I doubt it's much different at West Ham now.
It's true opposing fans do think we're a soft touch, and laugh at us having a Neutral Zone - I've witnessed this talking to away fans in the pub before the game.
Quote from: RaySmith on March 18, 2019, 11:28:35 AM
The rules have to be enforced when found to be blatantly broken, otherwise teams like Liverpool and Man U would just take over the Cottage.
I was in a home end at West ham when we won there in in Div. 2, about 1980, and celebrated a Fulham goal - we won the game, and was told by the police that I had to leave or I would be taken into protective custody - and I probably would have got a hiding from WH fans if i'd stayed.
I doubt it's much different at West Ham now.
It's true opposing fans do think we're a soft touch, and laugh at us having a Neutral Zone - I've witnessed this talking to away fans in the pub before the game.
Should FFC even sell individual tickets to the home end or should their be a minimium buy of three games in the home end?
Alternatively, some kind of membership fee for the season that allows you buy tickets at redcued price, so very few people see one game a year.
Quote from: RaySmith on March 18, 2019, 11:28:35 AM
The rules have to be enforced when found to be blatantly broken, otherwise teams like Liverpool and Man U would just take over the Cottage.
I was in a home end at West ham when we won there in in Div. 2, about 1980, and celebrated a Fulham goal - we won the game, and was told by the police that I had to leave or I would be taken into protective custody - and I probably would have got a hiding from WH fans if i'd stayed.
I doubt it's much different at West Ham now.
It's true opposing fans do think we're a soft touch, and laugh at us having a Neutral Zone - I've witnessed this talking to away fans in the pub before the game.
I agree Ray, but can't there be a bit of common sense when it comes to who should get turfed out and how?
There will always be people in the wrong end, but it shouldn't be the crime that it's deemed to be imo, unless they are making things unreasonable uncomfortable for those around them.
I'll be honest, if there was a dad and his kids celebrating a goal near me yesterday, I wouldn't have made it my duty to ensure they were thrown out, unless they were also rubbing our noses in it.
I don't think this zero tolerance approach is necessary, as it is a sad reflection on our ability to live and let live - it's only football FFS.
There were a handful in JH block D who were kicked out, one for celebrating the first goal.
I can understand why a fan would not be able to contain themselves if this was a last game of the season, a last minute winner etc. - but a nothing goal which was expected in the fixture I never can understand the need to celebrate it.
In response to posted asking why people ask stewards to kick out fans. Two seasons back we played Villa, when they went 1 up a Villa fan cheered and was rightly berated by Fulham fans for his actions - stewards did nothing - when we went level and then 2-1 a fight broke out as all the celebrations were aimed towards the bloke. The idiot Villa fan was actually with his wife and daughter and put them at risk, he walked out after the 2nd goal.
This is football, its not rugby, emotions are higher - away fans being kicked out is for everyone's safety.
Quote from: Take Me Home MAF on March 18, 2019, 12:01:55 PM
This is football, its not rugby, emotions are higher - away fans being kicked out is for everyone's safety.
Well, I would point out that only 34 years ago, that
fourteen Liverpool fans were each sentenced to three years' imprisoment for their actions towards opposition fans and everyone said officals should have done more to keep fans of opposite teams seperated.
So, maybe these rules arent necessary anymore, but calling a man in his 70s that who went though that era, as overeacting is disrespectful, because he doesn't want see that again. And, maybe it makes sense to be careful for another decade until we live in Football Fan Utopia.
Quote from: Chesh on March 18, 2019, 11:44:37 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on March 18, 2019, 11:28:35 AM
The rules have to be enforced when found to be blatantly broken, otherwise teams like Liverpool and Man U would just take over the Cottage.
I was in a home end at West ham when we won there in in Div. 2, about 1980, and celebrated a Fulham goal - we won the game, and was told by the police that I had to leave or I would be taken into protective custody - and I probably would have got a hiding from WH fans if i'd stayed.
I doubt it's much different at West Ham now.
It's true opposing fans do think we're a soft touch, and laugh at us having a Neutral Zone - I've witnessed this talking to away fans in the pub before the game.
I agree Ray, but can't there be a bit of common sense when it comes to who should get turfed out and how?
There will always be people in the wrong end, but it shouldn't be the crime that it's deemed to be imo, unless they are making things unreasonable uncomfortable for those around them.
I'll be honest, if there was a dad and his kids celebrating a goal near me yesterday, I wouldn't have made it my duty to ensure they were thrown out, unless they were also rubbing our noses in it.
I don't think this zero tolerance approach is necessary, as it is a sad reflection on our ability to live and let live - it's only football FFS.
Yes Chesh, but tickets to home areas were only available for season ticket holders and Members weren't they - and there are these restrictins for good reason, to ensure loyal fans get tickets, and for security reasons.
I remember the 60's when fans just mixed together, and witnessed the early hooliganism- fighting in the Hammy End as opposing fans tried to 'take it.' That wasn't very good to take your children into, or for me as a child myself on my own, was it?
Violence is again rearing its head around football, and Liverpool particularly have a reputation.
I get the point aout turning a blind eye to a bloke with his kids, but if the rule ins't enforced when openly transgressed, then there would be no point in it. One soluton would be to move the bloke and kids to the away end - surely there were seats available, even though the game was sold out? and maybe that is what happned, but probably not when I think about it - the rules are clear, and the person who sold the tickets on can also be traced and subject to punitive action.
If an away fan sits in the home end and cannot refrain from celebrating the away team scoring then he has no respect for the home fans and should be kicked out unceremoniously😠
Quote from: bobbo on March 17, 2019, 07:38:05 PM
I too am in the riverside and had 5 Liverpool fans all in the row directly in front of me and they couldn't help themselves celebrate the first goal but only mildly.
I too am in my seventies and I do object to having them there but as long as there's no threat I'm not going to call a steward.
BTW we get this situation almost every home game against the big clubs, there were half a dozen Man U , few weeks ago and same amount of Chelsea last home game. It's not right but hey ho.
I also saw some being ejected from the Johnny Haynes stand.
Lastly I was surrounded by villa fans at Wembley in £95 seats and that started to get tetchy.
I was in the Riverside yesterday, right behind the dugouts and there were 5 Liverpool fans on the row in front. They did a pretty muted celebration at the first goal, but more of a celebration for the second. Which prompted a fan behind us to launch into an expletive laden rant! But they did not get ejected...
To be honest, we had a bit of light hearted banter with them and despite being Liverpool fans they weren't too bad.
But fundamentally there should not be away fans in the home section.
The idea of doing away with segregation seems like a nice one to me, (I just want everyone to get on!) but there are too many people who want to cause trouble and what would happen to the atmosphere? Let's keep the fans separate
I've sat in home stands at away games and appreciate you have to be tactful - getting up and cheering as if you're an away fan is likely to rile people up in a football game, people are passionate about their team. Just sit down, be smug inside, enjoy the away fans going mental and have a gentle smile with whoever you're with. Getting up and jumping up and down screaming is stupid, as it can be deemed simply as inciteful... objectively taking someone away who could cause anger amongst others is the way you handle these situations.
It does seem in this instance a bit unfair, especially on his two children, but the guy really at his age should know what to do in those situations. The elderly gent clearly was feeling the goals particularly and wanted to make a point. That's the risk he ran of getting tickets in the home stand and celebrating.
That being said, I think it's pretty pathetic that Football seems to bring out such divisiveness and aggression in fans, whilst so many other sports fans sit side by side. The tribalism doesn't need to be there.
Quote from: General on March 18, 2019, 01:50:15 PM
That being said, I think it's pretty pathetic that Football seems to bring out such divisiveness and aggression in fans, whilst so many other sports fans sit side by side. The tribalism doesn't need to be there.
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Can you also grow up an avid supporter of one club and become a massive fan of another one?
Away fans who don't celebrate a Fulham goal are almost as noticeable as celebrating their own away goal.
This should cause a reaction like...
"Oi, what's a matter with you, not celebrating our goal, you must be away supporters ?
STEWARD,THESE PEOPLE WERE QUIET WHEN WE SCORED, THEY MUST BE LPL SUPPORTERS AND
NEED TO BE REMOVED FOR KEEPING THE PEACE"
What I think got the goat with this miserable old goat (same age as me and I get grumpy even on TV
when any opposition scores against us!!) was that he was dissapointed and angry when both their goals
were scored, and turned to the 3 blatant Liverpool fans sat in brightred shell suits, (with I'm a Liverpool
supporter on the back) Afro hair cuts, huge medallions and obvioiusly stolen tax discs.
No doubt they were singing "You'll Never Walk Alone" all afternoon, in harmony with the Father singing Bass,
the Son singing Baritone and the daughter, Soprano.
They probably all shouted "Tossers" to all around them, when we scored
and "We Geggin in" (proving they were gate-crashing) or shut up "Gob Shite"
and had a case of Liverpool Tart beer which the 2 children sneaked in.
TAKE ME HOME MAF wrote...I can understand why a fan would not be able to contain themselves if this was a last game of the season, a last minute winner etc. - but a nothing goal which was expected in the fixture I never can understand the need to celebrate it.
I'm assuming this was said in jest ??
No, just a father and kids who exploaded when their team scored 2 extremely important goals taking them to the top of the best league in the world. I'm sure a pole would show that a vast percentage of us would have gotten tickets for a game with that
importance and reacted as they did.
So we ejected a harmless family from the ground and really spoilt their expensive day out, surely a little common sense could have been applied.
A few years ago I took a lady who was an armchair Arsenal fan to the Arsenal Fulham game as an 80th birthday present, she had never been to the new Arsenal home and she had a wonderful day. We both sat in the Fulham end, was I wrong to do this.
Surely we all like to take friends and relations who are not Fulham fans to the Cottage .
What am I going to say to my granddaughter, a strong Watford fan, in a few weeks time when she announces that she has got a ticket for me next to her at Vicarage Road for the Watford v Fulham match.
Quote from: SP on March 17, 2019, 06:58:38 PM
Try doing that at Anfield. I'm sure we've all sat in the wrong end but I have no sympathy for anyone who celebrates - asking for trouble.
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Quote from: filham on March 18, 2019, 05:31:21 PM
So we ejected a harmless family from the ground and really spoilt their expensive day out, surely a little common sense could have been applied.
A few years ago I took a lady who was an armchair Arsenal fan to the Arsenal Fulham game as an 80th birthday present, she had never been to the new Arsenal home and she had a wonderful day. We both sat in the Fulham end, was I wrong to do this.
Surely we all like to take friends and relations who are not Fulham fans to the Cottage .
What am I going to say to my granddaughter, a strong Watford fan, in a few weeks time when she announces that she has got a ticket for me next to her at Vicarage Road for the Watford v Fulham match.
easy don't wear colours and don't celebrate, simple as that
Quote from: KJS on March 18, 2019, 01:34:53 PM
If an away fan sits in the home end and cannot refrain from celebrating the away team scoring then he has no respect for the home fans and should be kicked out unceremoniously😠
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Quote from: Logicalman on March 17, 2019, 07:31:02 PM
I agree with both responses here, some level of sympathy combined with the 'what were they doing there' attitude.
The much bigger question for me is: How the hell did they manage to get tickets for those seats to begin with.
Did the father lie to the club and get a membership pretending to be a Fulham Fan?
Did a member get the tickets for them?
Was it an ST holder who gave them the ticket?
Either of the last two should see the member banned from CC and cancellation of their membership/ST for the remainder.
0001.jpeg 0001.jpeg
I saw a Liverpool fan who looked weaker than me in the King's Road afterwards so I punched him on the nose! "That was for Mané", I said.
Quote from: RaySmith on March 18, 2019, 11:28:35 AM
The rules have to be enforced when found to be blatantly broken, otherwise teams like Liverpool and Man U would just take over the Cottage.
I was in a home end at West ham when we won there in in Div. 2, about 1980, and celebrated a Fulham goal - we won the game, and was told by the police that I had to leave or I would be taken into protective custody - and I probably would have got a hiding from WH fans if i'd stayed.
I doubt it's much different at West Ham now.
It's true opposing fans do think we're a soft touch, and laugh at us having a Neutral Zone - I've witnessed this talking to away fans in the pub before the game.
weird really ray I was at West Ham about four weeks ago when we lost 3-1 and right in the thick near where players come out of West Ham fans couldn't help punching my fist into my other hand when we scored . The fella sitting next to me said you must be Fulham I told yes and we talked nearly all game agout times gone by with both our clubs. But I'm an old git now and I'm sure he respected that , so rare circumstances it can work.
Quote from: Chesh on March 18, 2019, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 17, 2019, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
You would have had to see the shocked expression on the face of the girl being shouted at. I didn't feel sorry for the adult but the kids seemed distressed. The boy was probably 12 or 13.
Makes me sick that non-threatening away fans are hounded out like this.
So they got tickets and mildly celebrated when they scored - so f****** what?
Hope those celebrating this are proud of themselves for being so hard on those two kids.
Away fans being lairy is one thing, and at any other club than Fulham they would get ejected by the fans themselves (or would soon want to be). However, this sounds like a bloke and his two kids causing people to get so enraged?
What is so wrong with our society that this old fella should have been so intolerant?
Well done to the person who outed him .
I have been in away ends a few times.
But never celebrated .
Why would you put your kids in that situation.?
Sick of away fans thinking its Fulham we can do what we want.
Quote from: ffcne on March 18, 2019, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 18, 2019, 10:18:36 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 17, 2019, 09:11:57 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 17, 2019, 07:45:42 PM
So getting away fans out of the home end is overreacting? Christ some of our fans are absolute drips
You would have had to see the shocked expression on the face of the girl being shouted at. I didn't feel sorry for the adult but the kids seemed distressed. The boy was probably 12 or 13.
Makes me sick that non-threatening away fans are hounded out like this.
So they got tickets and mildly celebrated when they scored - so f****** what?
Hope those celebrating this are proud of themselves for being so hard on those two kids.
Away fans being lairy is one thing, and at any other club than Fulham they would get ejected by the fans themselves (or would soon want to be). However, this sounds like a bloke and his two kids causing people to get so enraged?
What is so wrong with our society that this old fella should have been so intolerant?
Well done to the person who outed him .
I have been in away ends a few times.
But never celebrated .
Why would you put your kids in that situation.?
Sick of away fans thinking its Fulham we can do what we want.
[/quote]
0001.jpeg
They received better treatment than they did at Man City:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8CHT3ZRP8
To all of those people who have been in an away end and not celebrated when we scored.
How did you manage just sitting there, muted, unresponsive, and not even shouting YESSSSSSSSS
I'd like to know your secret.
And I know it's not lack of passion, most of us on here are that and more
Yoga, Buddism, Scientology or other passive states of mind.
If Liverpool fans want to see their team play in London, then they should ask Liverpoool to play one of their home games at Wembley or allocate 100% of the away end ticket to Liverpool fans in London.
Quote from: bobbo on March 18, 2019, 06:22:15 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on March 18, 2019, 11:28:35 AM
The rules have to be enforced when found to be blatantly broken, otherwise teams like Liverpool and Man U would just take over the Cottage.
I was in a home end at West ham when we won there in in Div. 2, about 1980, and celebrated a Fulham goal - we won the game, and was told by the police that I had to leave or I would be taken into protective custody - and I probably would have got a hiding from WH fans if i'd stayed.
I doubt it's much different at West Ham now.
It's true opposing fans do think we're a soft touch, and laugh at us having a Neutral Zone - I've witnessed this talking to away fans in the pub before the game.
weird really ray I was at West Ham about four weeks ago when we lost 3-1 and right in the thick near where players come out of West Ham fans couldn't help punching my fist into my other hand when we scored . The fella sitting next to me said you must be Fulham I told yes and we talked nearly all game agout times gone by with both our clubs. But I'm an old git now and I'm sure he respected that , so rare circumstances it can work.
Funnily enough Bobbo, I asked an old bloke the way to the ground when we played WH a few weeks ago, and he said 'are you Fulham? I'll show you the way' and he did, and was very friendly, and we chatted away
Of course Bobbo, most fans are friendly when you meet them, and I'm talking about 1980 when I was in a home end at Upton Park, when it was still all standing,and probably celebrating a Fulham goal a bit tool openly, and I think you could still encounter trouble doing the same thing today. You celebrated discretely, and were maybe in quite a good seat?
It doesn't change my cebtral argument that if fans openly reveal they are away fans in a home area at Fulham, the rules should be applied, and they should be thrown out, because the rule is inefffective if you don't apply it when flagrantly flouted. This was a game that many Fulham fans probably weren't able to attend because it was sold out - to season ticket holders and members.
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
'I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.'
Agree entirely. We like to think that we are different, a friendly club. That should extend to a Dad and his young sons watching at Craven Cottage, home area or not. Many fans say that their favourite away day is a visit to the Cottage. I take great pride in that.
Quote from: Dodgin on March 18, 2019, 08:26:29 AM
There were the day's of no stand at the Putney end and Riversida and you could move from one end to the other. Those times have gone but this seems a little bit of over reaction to me
Yes those days have gone but those of us that experienced them find the current hard segregation attitude difficult to accept.
Quote from: epsomraver on March 18, 2019, 05:38:45 PM
Quote from: filham on March 18, 2019, 05:31:21 PM
So we ejected a harmless family from the ground and really spoilt their expensive day out, surely a little common sense could have been applied.
A few years ago I took a lady who was an armchair Arsenal fan to the Arsenal Fulham game as an 80th birthday present, she had never been to the new Arsenal home and she had a wonderful day. We both sat in the Fulham end, was I wrong to do this.
Surely we all like to take friends and relations who are not Fulham fans to the Cottage .
What am I going to say to my granddaughter, a strong Watford fan, in a few weeks time when she announces that she has got a ticket for me next to her at Vicarage Road for the Watford v Fulham match.
easy don't wear colours and don't celebrate, simple as that
[/quotQuote from: epsomraver on March 18, 2019, 05:38:45 PM
Quote from: filham on March 18, 2019, 05:31:21 PM
So we ejected a harmless family from the ground and really spoilt their expensive day out, surely a little common sense could have been applied.
A few years ago I took a lady who was an armchair Arsenal fan to the Arsenal Fulham game as an 80th birthday present, she had never been to the new Arsenal home and she had a wonderful day. We both sat in the Fulham end, was I wrong to do this.
Surely we all like to take friends and relations who are not Fulham fans to the Cottage .
What am I going to say to my granddaughter, a strong Watford fan, in a few weeks time when she announces that she has got a ticket for me next to her at Vicarage Road for the Watford v Fulham match.
easy don't wear colours and don't celebrate, simple as that
Ok I can manage the colour advice but I am going to have to concentrate hard on the celebration attitude especially when Mitrovic hits his third goal.
But what you are saying is that it is alright to break the rule just make sure you are not caught.
I was actually sitting in the home end for the reverse fixture this season in November (surrounded by tourists I might add) with a Liverpool-supporting mate of mine.
Was basically absolutely level with the play with Mitro headed in what looked like the opener - did I jump up and start celebrating when I thought we went ahead? No, there's nothing inherently nefarious about sitting in the 'wrong' end at a game, but being respectful and mindful of those sitting around you is just obvious.
If you celebrate an away goal in the home end, or your wearing an away shirt or whatever, you should be ejected automatically, age is irrelevant and ignorance is no excuse.
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Quote from: SmithyFFC on March 19, 2019, 12:14:56 PM
If you celebrate an away goal in the home end, or your wearing an away shirt or whatever, you should be ejected automatically, age is irrelevant and ignorance is no excuse.
It's just a very sad indictment of peoples' tolerance that a dad who apologises for daring to show brief delight when his team scores should be hounded out with two bemused kids, because he supports the other team, and happens to have obtained tickets in the wrong end.
If I was sat next to them, it wouldn't spoil my enjoyment of the game, unless he got lairy (which doesn't include mildly celebrating a goal).
Is your wish for automatic ejection in all cases because it is what football fans are 'expected' to call for, or because it would genuinely make you feel uncomfortable?
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
0001.jpeg
100% this
www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11670161/tottenham-warn-fans-selling-tickets-for-new-stadium-opener-against-crystal-palace
Slightly different situation but this is how it should be done.
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
[/quote
Let's do away with segregation altogether and have a completely neutral ground with maybe just the enclosure for just actual Fulham fans, since the club and certain people on here couldn't care less who is in the seats as long as they're sold
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
The is the core issue for me. The club's pricing strategy for home games has been very short-sighted. If tickets were priced and distributed differently, most of those seats would have been snapped up by Fulham fans and the ejection of visiting supporters from the main stands would not be an issue. The cheapest ticket (non-family) for our home game against Man City is £55. £45 for Everton. Given our pending relegation, most people are not going to pay that. Lessons need to be learned from the way away tickets are being priced.
Quote from: SG on March 19, 2019, 10:22:07 AM
'I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.'
Agree entirely. We like to think that we are different, a friendly club. That should extend to a Dad and his young sons watching at Craven Cottage, home area or not. Many fans say that their favourite away day is a visit to the Cottage. I take great pride in that.
+1
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 01:23:41 PM
Quote from: SmithyFFC on March 19, 2019, 12:14:56 PM
If you celebrate an away goal in the home end, or your wearing an away shirt or whatever, you should be ejected automatically, age is irrelevant and ignorance is no excuse.
It's just a very sad indictment of peoples' tolerance that a dad who apologises for daring to show brief delight when his team scores should be hounded out with two bemused kids, because he supports the other team, and happens to have obtained tickets in the wrong end.
If I was sat next to them, it wouldn't spoil my enjoyment of the game, unless he got lairy (which doesn't include mildly celebrating a goal).
Is your wish for automatic ejection in all cases because it is what football fans are 'expected' to call for, or because it would genuinely make you feel uncomfortable?
I don't think it's too much to ask for, especially when you're paying ridiculous prices in the Premier League, to not have to sit near people who are actively supporting the other team. As I said above, there is no inherent problem with supporters in the wrong end, but having other people rubbing it in when there team scores is not what anyone signs up for when they buy a ticket surely?
It's also the principle of having home and away segregation, with season tickets and memberships for Fulham fans only. Why would anyone buy a membership in this scenario? To get tickets to sell to away fans?
If you allow one family openly away fans, then you might as well do away with the idea of segregation - just have the whole ground one big Neutral Area - and then you'd probably often find most of the ground like the Neutral zone - packed with away fans
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 19, 2019, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Let's do away with segregation altogether and have a completely neutral ground with maybe just the enclosure for just actual Fulham fans, since the club and certain people on here couldn't care less who is in the seats as long as they're sold
Have we completely forgotten history. For the 29th May 1985 Liverpool game, the Belgium's authorities thought that Section Z of Heysel stadium could be a neutral section with both home and away fans, this decision resulted in the death of 39 people and 600 injured. Since then rules have been put in place that have worked, then i strongly suggest we keep following them.
If you allow Liverpool fans that bought ticket in the home end (that broke the rules buying the ticket illegally) that look harmless stay in the stand. And, surely its equally ok for another Liverpool Fan to buy a ticket in the home end even if he does look like he is there to cause trouble. If you say Liverpool fans can have a ticket, then you cannot kick him out until he does something wrong.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 19, 2019, 02:29:46 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 19, 2019, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Let's do away with segregation altogether and have a completely neutral ground with maybe just the enclosure for just actual Fulham fans, since the club and certain people on here couldn't care less who is in the seats as long as they're sold
Have we completely forgotten history. For the 29th May 1985 Liverpool game, the Belgium's authorities thought that Section Z of Heysel stadium could be a neutral section with both home and away fans, this decision resulted in the death of 39 people and 600 injured. Since then rules have been put in place that have worked, then i strongly suggest we keep following them.
If you allow Liverpool fans that bought ticket in the home end (that broke the rules buying the ticket illegally) that look harmless stay in the stand. And, surely its equally ok for another Liverpool Fan to buy a ticket in the home end even if he does look like he is there to cause trouble. If you say Liverpool fans can have a ticket, then you cannot kick him out until he does something wrong.
Trying use Heysel as justifcation as to why these three people should have been chucked out like they were, is totally inappropriate, and you know it.
Heysel was about dozens/hundreds of drunk Liverpool fans charging into Juventus fans in the bad old days and intent on trouble - this was nothing of the sort (not even on the same planet).
Since the year dot, small pockets of away fans have been in the 'wrong seats', probably at every match there ever was....and I've witnessed this myself since the mid-seventies.
How they have been dealt with has ranged from getting a kicking, to leaving of their own accord or getting ejected, or staying with their heads relatively down (as long as they don't take then p***).
It's not a new phenomenon, and I would have thought that the family brought up in the original post would normally fall into the latter category.
All I'm trying to say is it SHOULD be horses for courses imo, and all cases are different.
SmithyFFC, no one is saying accept getting your nose rubbed in it, but I doubt very much this was the case on Sunday.
As someone puts it better on TiFF, and I don't want to nick his post, but are we really that precious that we can't handle it in today's football?
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 03:05:43 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 19, 2019, 02:29:46 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 19, 2019, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Let's do away with segregation altogether and have a completely neutral ground with maybe just the enclosure for just actual Fulham fans, since the club and certain people on here couldn't care less who is in the seats as long as they're sold
Have we completely forgotten history. For the 29th May 1985 Liverpool game, the Belgium's authorities thought that Section Z of Heysel stadium could be a neutral section with both home and away fans, this decision resulted in the death of 39 people and 600 injured. Since then rules have been put in place that have worked, then i strongly suggest we keep following them.
If you allow Liverpool fans that bought ticket in the home end (that broke the rules buying the ticket illegally) that look harmless stay in the stand. And, surely its equally ok for another Liverpool Fan to buy a ticket in the home end even if he does look like he is there to cause trouble. If you say Liverpool fans can have a ticket, then you cannot kick him out until he does something wrong.
Trying use Heysel as justifcation as to why these three people should have been chucked out like they were, is totally inappropriate, and you know it.
Heysel was about dozens/hundreds of drunk Liverpool fans charging into Juventus fans in the bad old days and intent on trouble - this was nothing of the sort (not even on the same planet).
Since the year dot, small pockets of away fans have been in the 'wrong seats', probably at every match there ever was....and I've witnessed this myself since the mid-seventies.
How they have been dealt with has ranged from getting a kicking, to leaving of their own accord or getting ejected, or staying with their heads relatively down (as long as they don't take then p***).
It's not a new phenomenon, and I would have thought that the family brought up in the original post would normally fall into the latter category.
All I'm trying to say is it SHOULD be horses for courses imo, and all cases are different.
SmithyFFC, no one is saying accept getting your nose rubbed in it, but I doubt very much this was the case on Sunday.
As someone puts it better on TiFF, and I don't want to nick his post, but are we really that precious that we can't handle it in today's football?
The rules were put in place for reason, they worked and should be enforced until authorties fully decide to offical change the rules. It is true that the only fans we don't want are "lots of drunk Liverpool fans looking for a fight", but its very difficult to know how is drunk and even harder to know who is looking for a fight; so its easier kicking out all Liverpool Fans in the home section (then for sure you have kicked all the drunk Liverpool fans).
Alternatively, if FFC alllow well behaved Liverpool fans to set in the home are, drunk Liverpool fans will claim their sober and FFC falsely accused them demanding a refund. I agree with the rules, because they do prevent the trouble makers getting in the home end, but also prevent 100x other people gerting in for every one troublemaker; But, until we find a better way so be it.
Quote from: Whitesideup on March 19, 2019, 02:07:17 PM
Quote from: SG on March 19, 2019, 10:22:07 AM
'I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.'
Agree entirely. We like to think that we are different, a friendly club. That should extend to a Dad and his young sons watching at Craven Cottage, home area or not. Many fans say that their favourite away day is a visit to the Cottage. I take great pride in that.
+1
+ 2
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 19, 2019, 03:27:28 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 03:05:43 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 19, 2019, 02:29:46 PM
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 19, 2019, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Let's do away with segregation altogether and have a completely neutral ground with maybe just the enclosure for just actual Fulham fans, since the club and certain people on here couldn't care less who is in the seats as long as they're sold
Have we completely forgotten history. For the 29th May 1985 Liverpool game, the Belgium's authorities thought that Section Z of Heysel stadium could be a neutral section with both home and away fans, this decision resulted in the death of 39 people and 600 injured. Since then rules have been put in place that have worked, then i strongly suggest we keep following them.
If you allow Liverpool fans that bought ticket in the home end (that broke the rules buying the ticket illegally) that look harmless stay in the stand. And, surely its equally ok for another Liverpool Fan to buy a ticket in the home end even if he does look like he is there to cause trouble. If you say Liverpool fans can have a ticket, then you cannot kick him out until he does something wrong.
Trying use Heysel as justifcation as to why these three people should have been chucked out like they were, is totally inappropriate, and you know it.
Heysel was about dozens/hundreds of drunk Liverpool fans charging into Juventus fans in the bad old days and intent on trouble - this was nothing of the sort (not even on the same planet).
Since the year dot, small pockets of away fans have been in the 'wrong seats', probably at every match there ever was....and I've witnessed this myself since the mid-seventies.
How they have been dealt with has ranged from getting a kicking, to leaving of their own accord or getting ejected, or staying with their heads relatively down (as long as they don't take then p***).
It's not a new phenomenon, and I would have thought that the family brought up in the original post would normally fall into the latter category.
All I'm trying to say is it SHOULD be horses for courses imo, and all cases are different.
SmithyFFC, no one is saying accept getting your nose rubbed in it, but I doubt very much this was the case on Sunday.
As someone puts it better on TiFF, and I don't want to nick his post, but are we really that precious that we can't handle it in today's football?
The rules were put in place for reason, they worked and should be enforced until authorties fully decide to offical change the rules. It is true that the only fans we don't want are "lots of drunk Liverpool fans looking for a fight", but its very difficult to know how is drunk and even harder to know who is looking for a fight; so its easier kicking out all Liverpool Fans in the home section (then for sure you have kicked all the drunk Liverpool fans).
Alternatively, if FFC alllow well behaved Liverpool fans to set in the home are, drunk Liverpool fans will claim their sober and FFC falsely accused them demanding a refund. I agree with the rules, because they do prevent the trouble makers getting in the home end, but also prevent 100x other people gerting in for every one troublemaker; But, until we find a better way so be it.
Sorry mate, you've lost me now with this extreme over reaction - things have moved on a bit since 1985... :022:
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
Do you not see how illogical that is?
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
Dad should not have taken his kids in that situation.
Bet he has 'nt been to any other away grounds.
Dont care who they are ,get them kicked out
Whilst I agree the club may be culpable to some extent, that should not in any way mitigate the Scouse Dad's behaviour. If you forget to lock your front door and get robbed, yes you've been a fool for letting that happen but does that mean the robber hasn't done anything wrong?
Quote from: Southcoastffc on March 19, 2019, 05:49:34 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
Do you not see how illogical that is?
No, they knew they could sell overpriced tickets to touts and Scousers , so allowed them to buy memberships to gain access to these tickets. They also knew they would go a lot faster than if they put them on sale to Fulham fans.
It was blatant bums on seats policy at any price.
Why is is illogical to point that out?
Quote from: rogerpnowinFlorida on March 18, 2019, 10:52:58 PM
To all of those people who have been in an away end and not celebrated when we scored.
How did you manage just sitting there, muted, unresponsive, and not even shouting YESSSSSSSSS
I'd like to know your secret.
And I know it's not lack of passion, most of us on here are that and more
Yoga, Buddism, Scientology or other passive states of mind.
Was easy at Ch*lsea when we last won there 0-2 as celebrating would've had serious consequences for our health. Same at Millwall & WHU. Sometimes there are advantages being a coward.
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 06:31:42 PM
Whilst I agree the club may be culpable to some extent, that should not in any way mitigate the Scouse Dad's behaviour. If you forget to lock your front door and get robbed, yes you've been a fool for letting that happen but does that mean the robber hasn't done anything wrong?
I do find it funny, the lengths that people are going to to make out he has committed such a heinous crime by being in the wrong end at a football match.
If it isn't comparing his 'infiltration' to Heysel, it's robbers :dead horse:
Quote from: SP on March 19, 2019, 06:47:16 PM
Quote from: rogerpnowinFlorida on March 18, 2019, 10:52:58 PM
To all of those people who have been in an away end and not celebrated when we scored.
How did you manage just sitting there, muted, unresponsive, and not even shouting YESSSSSSSSS
I'd like to know your secret.
And I know it's not lack of passion, most of us on here are that and more
Yoga, Buddism, Scientology or other passive states of mind.
Was easy at Ch*lsea when we last won there 0-2 as celebrating would've had serious consequences for our health. Same at Millwall & WHU. Sometimes there are advantages being a coward.
I was in the Matthew Harding when Bocanegra equalised, and in the East 'Dockers' Stand when Kit Symons scored at Millwall.
Trust me, you know when to blend it, and it wasn't for fear of people running for the stewards :003:
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 06:51:30 PM
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 06:31:42 PM
Whilst I agree the club may be culpable to some extent, that should not in any way mitigate the Scouse Dad's behaviour. If you forget to lock your front door and get robbed, yes you've been a fool for letting that happen but does that mean the robber hasn't done anything wrong?
I do find it funny, the lengths that people are going to to make out he has committed such a heinous crime by being in the wrong end at a football match.
If it isn't comparing his 'infiltration' to Heysel, it's robbers :dead horse:
I'll leave it to The Rational Fan to make his own explanation but for my part, I find one of the best ways to show someone's logic is flawed is to apply that logic to a different scenario which, whilst analogous in all material respects, is more extreme in other respects, making the implications of that flawed logic much more stark and dramatic
You're quite right to say robbery is a more "heinous crime" than the stupidity, ignorance and brass neck this bloke showed at the Cottage. But in both cases the fundamental logic, that a wrong committed by one person is made less serious if another person's negligence gave them the opportunity to commit it, is exactly the same... and just as flawed
Also, let's be honest, he's a Liverpool fan, so he's most likely a thief anyway
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
God I hate snowflakes!!!
The fact he celebrated despite knowing that he was in a home section shows lack of respect for the Fulham fans and also for his own children's well being!
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 08:36:38 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 06:51:30 PM
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 06:31:42 PM
Whilst I agree the club may be culpable to some extent, that should not in any way mitigate the Scouse Dad's behaviour. If you forget to lock your front door and get robbed, yes you've been a fool for letting that happen but does that mean the robber hasn't done anything wrong?
I do find it funny, the lengths that people are going to to make out he has committed such a heinous crime by being in the wrong end at a football match.
If it isn't comparing his 'infiltration' to Heysel, it's robbers :dead horse:
I'll leave it to The Rational Fan to make his own explanation but for my part, I find one of the best ways to show someone's logic is flawed is to apply that logic to a different scenario which, whilst analogous in all material respects, is more extreme in other respects, making the implications of that flawed logic much more stark and dramatic
You're quite right to say robbery is a more "heinous crime" than the stupidity, ignorance and brass neck this bloke showed at the Cottage. But in both cases the fundamental logic, that a wrong committed by one person is made less serious if another person's negligence gave them the opportunity to commit it, is exactly the same... and just as flawed
Also, let's be honest, he's a Liverpool fan, so he's most likely a thief anyway
I just think this is one of those examples where you say 'come on it's a naive bloke with his kids - let them be for christ sake'. Life's to short to make it such a big issue and spoil the kids day when there was the chance to be grown up about it.
Quote from: KJS on March 19, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
God I hate snowflakes!!!
The fact he celebrated despite knowing that he was in a home section shows lack of respect for the Fulham fans and also for his own children's well being!
How was it ever likely to affect their well-being.
This is the Riverside Stand at Craven Cottage the home of nice people
and a few grumpy B+++stards who were p***ed off because we were
losing.
Do you think the guy would have grassed them up if we were winning, no
he'd be too busy waving his walking stick shouting "bloody good we're sticking it to the Scousers"
But I hardly believe anyone in that stand would have threatened their health.
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 06:51:30 PM
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 06:31:42 PM
Whilst I agree the club may be culpable to some extent, that should not in any way mitigate the Scouse Dad's behaviour. If you forget to lock your front door and get robbed, yes you've been a fool for letting that happen but does that mean the robber hasn't done anything wrong?
I do find it funny, the lengths that people are going to to make out he has committed such a heinous crime by being in the wrong end at a football match.
If it isn't comparing his 'infiltration' to Heysel, it's robbers :dead horse:
It is no way comparable to Heysel in terms of consequence, but the current rules have been put in place to ensure "drunk Liverpool Fans looking for a fight" don't sit in the home end, those rules include all seater stadiums, and no away fans in the home end.
You cannot descriminate you either throw all Liverpool fans out of the home end or only those that are drunk or only those already in a fight. Throwing out drunk violent Fans only creates more fights doesn't solve them and typically ends in arguements about who started the fight anyway (a fulham or liverpool fan). What a mess.
In the Past, a group of well behaved Liverpool fans, would have turned into a nightmare if the Rico Penalty wasn't allowed and Atyie goal was allowed causing them to drop out of the title race. Any fan would be angry, but it's better the die hard fans are apart.
When we go to Airports and Football Games, there are unfair rules on 99.99% to prevent the 0.01% maybe lower so causing trouble. We could consider changing the rules, but whatever the rules are stewards must enforce them with rare exceptions.
Quote from: KJS on March 19, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
God I hate snowflakes!!!
The fact he celebrated despite knowing that he was in a home section shows lack of respect for the Fulham fans and also for his own children's well being!
Ha ha, the irony of someone who feels so threatened by this 'disrespect' calling others snowflakes.
As I say, it's a bloke and his kids - anyone offended by these three needs to have a look at themselves.
People weren't frightened of them, and if offended it was by their arrogant open flouting of rules that most agree with, and are essential if the club wishes to have segregation of fans into home and away areas.
Well, I don't think the club has a choice in this anyway - I think the police would be involved and the game's authorities, if Fulham decided not have home and away fan segregation.
How do you think the Kop would respond if Fulham fans got tickets in there, and celebrated a Fulham goal?
Quote from: RaySmith on March 20, 2019, 05:50:06 AM
People weren't frightened of them, and if offended it was by their arrogant open flouting of rules that most agree with, and are essential if the club wishes to have segregation of fans into home and away areas.
Well, I don't think the club has a choice in this anyway - I think the police would be involved and the game's authorities, if Fulham decided not have home and away fan segregation.
How do you think the Kop would respond if Fulham fans got tickets in there, and celebrated a Fulham goal?
I suppose it depends to the extend they celebrated, and my point is not how people would react, but how imo they perhaps should, given the actual circumstances of the moment.
I'm not suggesting people were frightened, but by threatened, I mean were people really that offended that they needed the family slung out?
Anyway Ray, you're happy with the result here, fine, as are most others on this thread.
My final say on it is that I'd have let them be - not because I'm a 'snowflake', but quite the opposite, in that I'd have been able to accept it for what it apparent was i.e. harmless (in THIS case).
Loads of opinions on this topic ,BUT has anyone emailed the club with their observations and if so , Amy response ?
Why couldn't he just buy the tickets from Liverpool and if they sold their allocation just don't go? The seats he used were for Fulham supporters, how many of Fulham fans couldn't buy tickets because the game was sold out and therefore missed the game?
Quote from: gang on March 20, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
Why couldn't he just buy the tickets from Liverpool and if they sold their allocation just don't go? The seats he used were for Fulham supporters, how many of Fulham fans couldn't buy tickets because the game was sold out and therefore missed the game?
And how many Fulham supporters chose not to because they considered that the cost of tickets was roo high?
Quote from: gang on March 20, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
Why couldn't he just buy the tickets from Liverpool and if they sold their allocation just don't go? The seats he used were for Fulham supporters, how many of Fulham fans couldn't buy tickets because the game was sold out and therefore missed the game?
Please see above on this page re ticket policy for this game, as FFC were far more responsible for Fulham fans missing out, rather than any away fans who managed to get a ticket in home areas as a result of that policy.
The club and some of our fans it seems couldn't care less who ends up at the games. Also do you really think it would be possible to have a good atmosphere without an element of tribalism? Would you lot really not have minded if we had Derby fans next to us at the play off game?
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 20, 2019, 08:49:50 AM
The club and some of our fans it seems couldn't care less who ends up at the games. Also do you really think it would be possible to have a good atmosphere without an element of tribalism? Would you lot really not have minded if we had Derby fans next to us at the play off game?
I agree with that to some extent, there should be areas of the ground that are strictly home and away sections. The tribalism makes for a better atmosphere.
However, I think once you move out of those areas there should be the opportunity for fans to intermix. The problem comes, when the "tribalism" areas are sold out and given the make up of some supporters shifting those to mixed areas. Hence I think it's right at home matches there is only a designated sector for away fans which is why I like Fulham's neutral end and always have done.
TBH anyone that sits in the opposing teams area and can't sit on their hands for 90 minutes doesn't deserve to stay there, it's as simple as that. I have done it many a time, and not because I've been in fear of opposition fans (Southampton, Bournemouth, Portsmouth are recent examples) but simply out of respect for where I am. It's what you do.
Quote from: Westlondonffc on March 20, 2019, 08:49:50 AM
The club and some of our fans it seems couldn't care less who ends up at the games. Also do you really think it would be possible to have a good atmosphere without an element of tribalism? Would you lot really not have minded if we had Derby fans next to us at the play off game?
No, I'm not saying that. I'm talking about this particular incident, in these particular circumstances. Read the very first post in this thread, and this is what I have been trying to respond to. Would never advocate carte blanche infiltration of home ends, although I do think people should be able to handle things better without running to the stewards at the first sight of someone in the wrong end.
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 09:10:34 PM
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 08:36:38 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 06:51:30 PM
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 06:31:42 PM
Whilst I agree the club may be culpable to some extent, that should not in any way mitigate the Scouse Dad's behaviour. If you forget to lock your front door and get robbed, yes you've been a fool for letting that happen but does that mean the robber hasn't done anything wrong?
I do find it funny, the lengths that people are going to to make out he has committed such a heinous crime by being in the wrong end at a football match.
If it isn't comparing his 'infiltration' to Heysel, it's robbers :dead horse:
I'll leave it to The Rational Fan to make his own explanation but for my part, I find one of the best ways to show someone's logic is flawed is to apply that logic to a different scenario which, whilst analogous in all material respects, is more extreme in other respects, making the implications of that flawed logic much more stark and dramatic
You're quite right to say robbery is a more "heinous crime" than the stupidity, ignorance and brass neck this bloke showed at the Cottage. But in both cases the fundamental logic, that a wrong committed by one person is made less serious if another person's negligence gave them the opportunity to commit it, is exactly the same... and just as flawed
Also, let's be honest, he's a Liverpool fan, so he's most likely a thief anyway
I just think this is one of those examples where you say 'come on it's a naive bloke with his kids - let them be for christ sake'. Life's to short to make it such a big issue and spoil the kids day when there was the chance to be grown up about it.
Naive Bloke??
Come on he knows exactly what he is doing.
Doing something he is not supposed to do .
Kids or no kids .In fact think it is worst doing it with kids.
It does'nt work and is an insult to home fans.
Unless you keep your mouth shut.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on March 20, 2019, 08:26:40 AM
Quote from: gang on March 20, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
Why couldn't he just buy the tickets from Liverpool and if they sold their allocation just don't go? The seats he used were for Fulham supporters, how many of Fulham fans couldn't buy tickets because the game was sold out and therefore missed the game?
And how many Fulham supporters chose not to because they considered that the cost of tickets was roo high?
The prices are high, because the demand is high. If you want to share the stand with fans from other teams, then expect to pay even more. If Liverpool fans are welcome, you will have to compete with them for tickets and there are at least 25,000 Liverpool fans from London willing to pay £95 per ticket once a year.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 09:25:23 AM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on March 20, 2019, 08:26:40 AM
Quote from: gang on March 20, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
Why couldn't he just buy the tickets from Liverpool and if they sold their allocation just don't go? The seats he used were for Fulham supporters, how many of Fulham fans couldn't buy tickets because the game was sold out and therefore missed the game?
And how many Fulham supporters chose not to because they considered that the cost of tickets was roo high?
The prices are high, because the demand is high. If you want to share the stand with fans from other teams, then expect to pay even more. If Liverpool fans are welcome, then there are at least 25,000 Liverpool fans from London willing to pay £95 per ticket once or twice a year.
Unfortunately, that's exactly how the club sold this game - separate question from the original post though
Quote from: ffcne on March 20, 2019, 09:23:46 AM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 09:10:34 PM
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 08:36:38 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 06:51:30 PM
Quote from: Statto on March 19, 2019, 06:31:42 PM
Whilst I agree the club may be culpable to some extent, that should not in any way mitigate the Scouse Dad's behaviour. If you forget to lock your front door and get robbed, yes you've been a fool for letting that happen but does that mean the robber hasn't done anything wrong?
I do find it funny, the lengths that people are going to to make out he has committed such a heinous crime by being in the wrong end at a football match.
If it isn't comparing his 'infiltration' to Heysel, it's robbers :dead horse:
I'll leave it to The Rational Fan to make his own explanation but for my part, I find one of the best ways to show someone's logic is flawed is to apply that logic to a different scenario which, whilst analogous in all material respects, is more extreme in other respects, making the implications of that flawed logic much more stark and dramatic
You're quite right to say robbery is a more "heinous crime" than the stupidity, ignorance and brass neck this bloke showed at the Cottage. But in both cases the fundamental logic, that a wrong committed by one person is made less serious if another person's negligence gave them the opportunity to commit it, is exactly the same... and just as flawed
Also, let's be honest, he's a Liverpool fan, so he's most likely a thief anyway
I just think this is one of those examples where you say 'come on it's a naive bloke with his kids - let them be for christ sake'. Life's to short to make it such a big issue and spoil the kids day when there was the chance to be grown up about it.
Naive Bloke??
Come on he knows exactly what he is doing.
Doing something he is not supposed to do .
Kids or no kids .In fact think it is worst doing it with kids.
It does'nt work and is an insult to home fans.
Unless you keep your mouth shut.
I'm not debating whether he was in the wrong or not - I'm questioning how it was dealt with.
Don't get me wrong, I was very happy with the way QPR were battered out of the enclosure 20 years ago, and other times when I've witnessed away fans get 'removed' by our own fans when they've come in to take the p***. But if you can't see the difference in this occurrence, and the common sense that could have been shown, then we would just be arguing all day.
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Well said.
You have to ask yourself "Would that father take his kids to Old Trafford and sit amongst the ManUre fans?" Or Chelsea or Everton? Of course he wouldn't. The stewards would have had him and his kids out in no time for their own safety. So why is it acceptable that he can buy tickets and sit amongst Fulham fans? Would those who said he should have been left alone be happy if he was a QPR or Leeds fan celebrating?
I am sick and tired of our club being seen as a soft touch on and off the pitch with away fans thinking they can sit anywhere without having to deal with any consequences of their actions. What would have happened if a Fulham fan took offence to this bloke and punched him? There are rules and regulations in place for the safety of people going to a football match and this includes away fans in home areas.
Our stewards are hopeless anyway and will do all they can to avoid doing anything, other than block the walkways. But in these instances the away fans should be ejected, their tickets confiscated and the club should carry out an investigation as to how they got those tickets. If they were given to them by S/T holders then that person should be banned from getting another ticket, if bought by a Member then the booking history should be looked at and that person banned from being a member. I do wonder how many recent Members and S/T holders will be renewing at the end of this season? So hopefully this situation wont arise again.
Harsh maybe but thems the rules.
Quote from: filham on March 20, 2019, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Well said.
In today's world,
you must treat all people equally, so you must treat
"a harmless looking father with his two adorable kids that support Liverpool" the same as you would treat
"three Liverpool supporters that like they came for a fight", otherwise its discrimination.
If you kick people out for supporting Liverpool, then you must kick all people out that support Liverpool, otherwise its discrimination. If you kick people out for have a few beers before the game, you must kick out all supporters that have had a few beers (including Fulham fans), otherwise its discrimination. If you kick people out because the look like trouble, then you need to have a legally valid reason to say they look like trouble that is no way seen as discrimination, otherwise its discrimination.
Much easily to say, anyone that is a Liverpool Fan has to leave; but if you want to work with the stewards to create a new set of guidelines good luck, but its much much much easier to kick out all opposition fans (even nice Norwich Fans).
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: filham on March 20, 2019, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Well said.
In today's world, you must treat all people equally, so you must treat "a harmless looking father with his two adorable kids that support Liverpool" the same as you would treat "three men that look interested in a fight that support Liverpool".
I'm sorry but this is where we differ - the latter imo should get ejected by either home fans (as they would have been in the past, and still would be at most clubs) or the stewards, whereas a degree of tolerance could have been shown to the former, especially as he apologised and promised to keep his head down for the rest of the match.
Quote from: Chesh on March 20, 2019, 10:09:07 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: filham on March 20, 2019, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Well said.
In today's world, you must treat all people equally, so you must treat "a harmless looking father with his two adorable kids that support Liverpool" the same as you would treat "three men that look interested in a fight that support Liverpool".
I'm sorry but this is where we differ - the latter imo should get ejected by either home fans (as they would have been in the past, and still would be at most clubs) or the stewards, whereas a degree of tolerance could have been shown to the former, especially as he apologised and promised to keep his head down for the rest of the match.
I agree with you more than you realise. I created the extreme example, because i wanted it to be clear the "the latter imo should get ejected".
What I also wanted to show in the extreme example, that it is vitually impossible to create another rule "apart from kicking out all oppoistions fans" without being discrimatory. Hence, if you want "the latter imo should get ejected", then "you must eject the former too" or have stewards risk getting in trouble when they eject the wrong person.
In today's world, a steward can get in a lot of trouble for kicking someone out of a football game, if it can be proven he does it for the wrong reason that is considered discrimination. Stewards are allowed to eject opposition fans without any problem from the law, kicking people out for being drunk is a little harder but normally ok; but kicking people out cause they look like trouble will land stewards in trouble if they are in anyway biased.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 10:28:40 AM
Quote from: Chesh on March 20, 2019, 10:09:07 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 09:48:18 AM
Quote from: filham on March 20, 2019, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: Neil D on March 19, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
The more posts I read on this thread the more I regret not asking the stewards to let them stay and the more I regret my comment about Liverpool supporters in general. It just adds grist to the mill of unwarranted intolerance. If they had been mouthy yobs, then obviously they should have been ejected. If the Liverpool guy in front of me (two seats to the right) did celebrate, it must have been over in a nano-second because I did not notice it. The Fulham fan sitting next to them said he wasn't bothered by them - but only after two stewards had led them away. Shame on me.
Well said.
In today's world, you must treat all people equally, so you must treat "a harmless looking father with his two adorable kids that support Liverpool" the same as you would treat "three men that look interested in a fight that support Liverpool".
I'm sorry but this is where we differ - the latter imo should get ejected by either home fans (as they would have been in the past, and still would be at most clubs) or the stewards, whereas a degree of tolerance could have been shown to the former, especially as he apologised and promised to keep his head down for the rest of the match.
I agree with you more than you realise. I created the extreme example, because i wanted it to be clear the "the latter imo should get ejected". What I also wanted to show in the extreme example is even in an extreme example, it is vitually impossible to create another rule for kicking people out without being discrimatory or without have no rules at all. In today's world, a Steward can get in a lot of trouble for kicking someone out of a football game, it can be proven he does it for the wrong reason such as discrimination.
Shame there's no room for common sense in 'today's world' and modern football.
Quote from: Chesh on March 20, 2019, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 10:28:40 AM
I agree with you more than you realise. I created the extreme example, because i wanted it to be clear the "the latter imo should get ejected". What I also wanted to show in the extreme example is even in an extreme example, it is vitually impossible to create another rule for kicking people out without being discrimatory or without have no rules at all. In today's world, a Steward can get in a lot of trouble for kicking someone out of a football game, it can be proven he does it for the wrong reason such as discrimination.
Shame there's no room for common sense in 'today's world' and modern football.
True, but we tried common sense, didn't work and that's why the new rules are in place.
At least, they are the same rules for all opposition fans and he would have known the rules.
Quote from: cookieg on March 20, 2019, 09:40:43 AM
You have to ask yourself "Would that father take his kids to Old Trafford and sit amongst the ManUre fans?" Or Chelsea or Everton? Of course he wouldn't. The stewards would have had him and his kids out in no time for their own safety. So why is it acceptable that he can buy tickets and sit amongst Fulham fans? Would those who said he should have been left alone be happy if he was a QPR or Leeds fan celebrating?
I am sick and tired of our club being seen as a soft touch on and off the pitch with away fans thinking they can sit anywhere without having to deal with any consequences of their actions. What would have happened if a Fulham fan took offence to this bloke and punched him? There are rules and regulations in place for the safety of people going to a football match and this includes away fans in home areas.
Our stewards are hopeless anyway and will do all they can to avoid doing anything, other than block the walkways. But in these instances the away fans should be ejected, their tickets confiscated and the club should carry out an investigation as to how they got those tickets. If they were given to them by S/T holders then that person should be banned from getting another ticket, if bought by a Member then the booking history should be looked at and that person banned from being a member. I do wonder how many recent Members and S/T holders will be renewing at the end of this season? So hopefully this situation wont arise again.
Harsh maybe but thems the rules.
A sensible post, we are a soft touch on and off the pitch, and our overall good nature is taken advantage of, there is no respect, if you act like a door mat, opponents will treat you like a door mat.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 20, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: cookieg on March 20, 2019, 09:40:43 AM
Harsh maybe but thems the rules.
A sensible post, we are a soft touch on and off the pitch, and our overall good nature is taken advantage of, there is no respect, if you act like a door mat, opponents will treat you like a door mat.
Well, it seems Norwich and Burton Albion won't be in the Championship next year, so being the Championships best behaved team should be easy for us to win. 049:gif
Quote from: Southcoastffc on March 20, 2019, 08:26:40 AM
Quote from: gang on March 20, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
Why couldn't he just buy the tickets from Liverpool and if they sold their allocation just don't go? The seats he used were for Fulham supporters, how many of Fulham fans couldn't buy tickets because the game was sold out and therefore missed the game?
And how many Fulham supporters chose not to because they considered that the cost of tickets was roo high?
Yes I agree they are dear but they should only be available to Fulham supporters in these areas, I have no sympathy with them because they were caught out. Their tickets should have been bought from Liverpool.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 20, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: cookieg on March 20, 2019, 09:40:43 AM
Harsh maybe but thems the rules.
A sensible post, we are a soft touch on and off the pitch, and our overall good nature is taken advantage of, there is no respect, if you act like a door mat, opponents will treat you like a door mat.
Well, it seems Norwich and Burton Albion won't be in the Championship next year, so being the Championships best behaved team should be easy for us to win. 049:gif
Unfortunately, currently at the moment we may end up as top of the League of Gentlemen. Or even top of the League of Gentle men, or even top of the League of Genital men.
But the pen is not mightier than the sword, because you cannot write with a broken arm.
It seems like most of those posting were at the game. I was too. We had some Liverpool fans around us. Didn't bother me. This is why: The club did a minutes applause for Zara Barka-Harrison, who died recently at the age of 36. She was a club employee who I had known for the entire fourteen years she'd worked at the club. She was also married to our kit man. She had a fourteen or fifteen month old baby. She was also a Liverpool fan (her second team). During the minutes applause the Liverpool fans began to sing "You'll Never Walk Alone". All of the people around me were deeply moved by the gesture. So was I. I thought then, as I do now, that Fulham is different. A family, a place where other football fans embrace our sensibilities because of the Cottage and the river and...the fans. I don;t recognise all of the divisive remarks I read on this board - not about our club not on that afternoon. We have had a terrible season. We've been terribly let down by people (or maybe a single person) who have not been good stewards of the Club. But the essential goodness and decency of everyone I know there is undiminished whether we win or lose. A guy with his two kids celebrating a Liverpool goal? In the scheme of things. I guess I would have thought of Zara and her now motherless baby and the respect the Liverpool fans paid to her, and let it slide.
Your post lives up to your name . Thank you for adding your insightful perspective and demonstrating such humanity.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 20, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: cookieg on March 20, 2019, 09:40:43 AM
Harsh maybe but thems the rules.
A sensible post, we are a soft touch on and off the pitch, and our overall good nature is taken advantage of, there is no respect, if you act like a door mat, opponents will treat you like a door mat.
Well, it seems Norwich and Burton Albion won't be in the Championship next year, so being the Championships best behaved team should be easy for us to win. 049:gif
But there is no cigar, or even a coconut let alone a goldfish to acknowledge this achievement.
Therefore, unfortunately I would imagine it will pass unnoticed by the footballing world.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 21, 2019, 05:41:21 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on March 20, 2019, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 20, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: cookieg on March 20, 2019, 09:40:43 AM
Harsh maybe but thems the rules.
A sensible post, we are a soft touch on and off the pitch, and our overall good nature is taken advantage of, there is no respect, if you act like a door mat, opponents will treat you like a door mat.
Well, it seems Norwich and Burton Albion won't be in the Championship next year, so being the Championships best behaved team should be easy for us to win. 049:gif
But there is no cigar, or even a coconut let alone a goldfish to acknowledge this achievement.
Therefore, unfortunately I would imagine it will pass unnoticed by the footballing world.
Not true, it will be appreciated with opposition fans paying large sums of money for seats at Craven Cottage.
Quote from: Mighty Maik on March 20, 2019, 09:18:19 PM
It seems like most of those posting were at the game. I was too. We had some Liverpool fans around us. Didn't bother me. This is why: The club did a minutes applause for Zara Barka-Harrison, who died recently at the age of 36. She was a club employee who I had known for the entire fourteen years she'd worked at the club. She was also married to our kit man. She had a fourteen or fifteen month old baby. She was also a Liverpool fan (her second team). During the minutes applause the Liverpool fans began to sing "You'll Never Walk Alone". All of the people around me were deeply moved by the gesture. So was I. I thought then, as I do now, that Fulham is different. A family, a place where other football fans embrace our sensibilities because of the Cottage and the river and...the fans. I don;t recognise all of the divisive remarks I read on this board - not about our club not on that afternoon. We have had a terrible season. We've been terribly let down by people (or maybe a single person) who have not been good stewards of the Club. But the essential goodness and decency of everyone I know there is undiminished whether we win or lose. A guy with his two kids celebrating a Liverpool goal? In the scheme of things. I guess I would have thought of Zara and her now motherless baby and the respect the Liverpool fans paid to her, and let it slide.
It's sad what happened to her but the concept of supporting two clubs is one I fundamentally disagree with
Quote from: filham on March 18, 2019, 05:31:21 PM
So we ejected a harmless family from the ground and really spoilt their expensive day out, surely a little common sense could have been applied.
A few years ago I took a lady who was an armchair Arsenal fan to the Arsenal Fulham game as an 80th birthday present, she had never been to the new Arsenal home and she had a wonderful day. We both sat in the Fulham end, was I wrong to do this.
Surely we all like to take friends and relations who are not Fulham fans to the Cottage .
What am I going to say to my granddaughter, a strong Watford fan, in a few weeks time when she announces that she has got a ticket for me next to her at Vicarage Road for the Watford v Fulham match.
The family had their expensive day out spoilt - I expect there were a few Fulham fans who had an expensive day spoilt by this chump celebrating exuberantly. It's hard enough watching your team lose at the best of times without an away fan rubbing your nose in it.
Yes, I Have taken friends and family that are not Fulham fans. Thankfully they've all been gracious enough to not celebrate the oppositions goals, and just enjoyed the match.
Enjoy your trip to Watford, just don't be a tosser and celebrate wildly if we score, then I'm sure you will have a great day out.
Quote from: cookieg on March 20, 2019, 09:40:43 AM
You have to ask yourself "Would that father take his kids to Old Trafford and sit amongst the ManUre fans?" Or Chelsea or Everton? Of course he wouldn't. The stewards would have had him and his kids out in no time for their own safety. So why is it acceptable that he can buy tickets and sit amongst Fulham fans? Would those who said he should have been left alone be happy if he was a QPR or Leeds fan celebrating?
I am sick and tired of our club being seen as a soft touch on and off the pitch with away fans thinking they can sit anywhere without having to deal with any consequences of their actions. What would have happened if a Fulham fan took offence to this bloke and punched him? There are rules and regulations in place for the safety of people going to a football match and this includes away fans in home areas.
Our stewards are hopeless anyway and will do all they can to avoid doing anything, other than block the walkways. But in these instances the away fans should be ejected, their tickets confiscated and the club should carry out an investigation as to how they got those tickets. If they were given to them by S/T holders then that person should be banned from getting another ticket, if bought by a Member then the booking history should be looked at and that person banned from being a member. I do wonder how many recent Members and S/T holders will be renewing at the end of this season? So hopefully this situation wont arise again.
Harsh maybe but thems the rules.
Couldn't agree more, as I said in my previous answer why did he think he was above the law?
If we disagree with a law, change it through Parliament.
Quote from: Chesh on March 20, 2019, 12:16:44 AM
Quote from: KJS on March 19, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
God I hate snowflakes!!!
The fact he celebrated despite knowing that he was in a home section shows lack of respect for the Fulham fans and also for his own children's well being!
Ha ha, the irony of someone who feels so threatened by this 'disrespect' calling others snowflakes.
As I say, it's a bloke and his kids - anyone offended by these three needs to have a look at themselves.
what is a snowflake?
Quote from: gang on March 22, 2019, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Chesh on March 20, 2019, 12:16:44 AM
Quote from: KJS on March 19, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
God I hate snowflakes!!!
The fact he celebrated despite knowing that he was in a home section shows lack of respect for the Fulham fans and also for his own children's well being!
Ha ha, the irony of someone who feels so threatened by this 'disrespect' calling others snowflakes.
As I say, it's a bloke and his kids - anyone offended by these three needs to have a look at themselves.
what is a snowflake?
It's a big girls blouse.
For 5 /6 years (from 1995) I took my daughter to almost every home and away game.
She was 8 when we started going, the last year was when we won the CS in 2000-2001
after which I moved to US.
We sat and stood in all sorts of areas of numerous grounds, the only 'agro' we had was
the 'minor incident' at Villa and an aggravated older man when we left the ground at Lincoln
having beaten them 2-1 (we were arrogant Southerners who didn't deserve to win)
This travel and experiences created a fantastic 'bonding' between us which to this day,
even after her marriage and recent baby and a 3,000 mile distance, is as strong as ever.
not sure if this makes me a bad parent or not ?
PS: Her and her husband went to the playoff final last season
Quote from: gang on March 22, 2019, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: Chesh on March 20, 2019, 12:16:44 AM
Quote from: KJS on March 19, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: Chesh on March 19, 2019, 10:11:04 AM
Seems to me that people would rather eradicate the relatively harmless symptom than the cause, which is our football club.
The reason FFC fans were not in those seats is because Fulham FC made sure they sold inpromptu memberships, to ensure that overpriced tickets were all sold - knowing full well that those memberships would be taken up by Liverpool fans and touts.
Once this has happened, it was not a secret that there would be Liverpool fans in home areas.
As I said the horse had already bolted, and if Fulham FC choose the same method of ticket sales again it will happen against any big team.
Yet people would rather froth at the mouth over non-threatening families who naively or otherwise have taken advantage of our club's own policy to see their team.
I totally agree that threatening, or mouthy, away fans should get dealt with on the spot, but I don't understand why banter could not have replaced total intolerance in this case - this dad and his kids were trying to enjoy a football match.....I really don't see what people were so frightened of (rules or no rules), especially when the dad apologised and promised to tone it down.
God I hate snowflakes!!!
The fact he celebrated despite knowing that he was in a home section shows lack of respect for the Fulham fans and also for his own children's well being!
Ha ha, the irony of someone who feels so threatened by this 'disrespect' calling others snowflakes.
As I say, it's a bloke and his kids - anyone offended by these three needs to have a look at themselves.
what is a snowflake?
If you take a reasoned view he calls you a snowflake. He made the same comment about me earlier this year. I think it means he hates people who take a reasoned balanced view which may smack of a liberal minded attitude.
I suppose the best way to avoid being called a snowflake, is to avoid acting like a big girls blouse.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 23, 2019, 12:00:20 AM
I suppose the best way to avoid being called a snowflake, is to avoid acting like a big girls blouse.
Snowflake is a strange thing to call someone, then you bring in big girls blouses.
Merkwürdig.
Quote from: gang on March 23, 2019, 10:00:39 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on March 23, 2019, 12:00:20 AM
I suppose the best way to avoid being called a snowflake, is to avoid acting like a big girls blouse.
Snowflake is a strange thing to call someone, then you bring in big girls blouses.
Merkwürdig.
It is not strange to me.
I remember being at Brentford one Saturday with away supporters kept vey quiet until the third goal went in then the whole place erupted. I think there were more Fulham than Brentford
