I was right about last year and Parker but swallowed my words because he got us promoted, but he has to go. A quarter way into the season and 4 points.
If there is a rescue plan, start it now!!!!
Yep I have to agree I've supported SP but after the 1st half he has shown that he is incompetent
After signing a 3 year extension in September, not a chance
I completely disagree
For his insistence on playing Cav.
Quote from: somersetwhite on November 22, 2020, 12:58:27 PM
I was right about last year and Parker but swallowed my words because he got us promoted, but he has to go. A quarter way into the season and 4 points.
If there is a rescue plan, start it now!!!!
Disagree. English football culture of sacking managers willy-nilly is stupid. Norwich finished bottom last season and they still have the same manager. Fulham continues to look better.
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Disagree with OP. Played against a better side with a much better striker and lost by a goal.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
Yep, he can't survive 1 win in 9. I doubt even the biggest Parker fan can defend this shocking start to a season. Presuming this is our worst ever in our entire history.
Hes got us playing decent stuff. Defensively still way to open. Would like to see him make a tactical change at half time sometimes though he seems really reluctant to change things unless its 70+ minutes.
He will continue to improve as a manager
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Disagree with OP. Played against a better side with a much better striker and lost by a goal.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
what does it matter if you lose by one or ten, the result is the same. Zero points
Don't think he should go. He's not a miracle worker so why expect it. The team are improving. I do think he made the wrong team selection decisions. The next two games are not really winnable so no need to rest players. I also think he took the wrong players off when making the obvious substitutes. ( Unless there were injuries that weren't obvious.)
Quote from: Bocanegra on November 22, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Really!?
We can not defend as a team, Parker and the coaching staff must take responsibility for that.
I'm staying positive on Parker but will say, I've seen enough to say, we are going down and we just aren't playing for the manager in my point of view.
Nope, disagree with you 100%. He's improving game on game. Got the XI wrong today and he corrected that as the game went on. The players are to blame for that first goal. Have to admit that I find his selection of Cav baffling. He's struggled for some time now. Must be dynamite in training.
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:00:17 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Disagree with OP. Played against a better side with a much better striker and lost by a goal.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
Well actually there is a massive diffeerence.If you dont get that well I cant explain it to you.
what does it matter if you lose by one or ten, the result is the same. Zero points
100% right. Parker has to go.
His selection was awful, he set the team up badly, we conceded within a minute, the free kicks were awful, the corners terrible, and the subs were wrong.
As Keown said in comm what are they doing all week: no drilling.
We were shambolic and that is all down to the sub standard lack of intelligence from the coach.He is all over the place. By keeping Cav on the field we played the whole match with ten men effectively.
And that pen was just so stupid, he ran up from the wrong angle...just dim.
Parker out now. Plenty of better coaches out there who are not so conceited.
Quote from: Wingnut on November 22, 2020, 02:01:58 PM
Nope, disagree with you 100%. He's improving game on game. Got the XI wrong today and he corrected that as the game went on. The players are to blame for that first goal. Have to admit that I find his selection of Cav baffling. He's struggled for some time now. Must be dynamite in training.
The game was lost by the time he adjusted though so I'm not praising him for making an obvious mistake and correcting said obvious mistake.
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Hes got us playing decent stuff. Defensively still way to open. Would like to see him make a tactical change at half time sometimes though he seems really reluctant to change things unless its 70+ minutes.
He will continue to improve as a manager
he hasn't got us playing decent stuff at all. Once again we only started playing once the game was beyond us. And we aren't improving, we are still losing
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Hes got us playing decent stuff. Defensively still way to open. Would like to see him make a tactical change at half time sometimes though he seems really reluctant to change things unless its 70+ minutes.
He will continue to improve as a manager
he hasn't got us playing decent stuff at all. Once again we only started playing once the game was beyond us. And we aren't improving, we are still losing
ok
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Hes got us playing decent stuff. Defensively still way to open. Would like to see him make a tactical change at half time sometimes though he seems really reluctant to change things unless its 70+ minutes.
He will continue to improve as a manager
he hasn't got us playing decent stuff at all. Once again we only started playing once the game was beyond us. And we aren't improving, we are still losing
Even when we were playing in the second half we were very easy to defend against.
We used no width and didn't get anyone in behind. Not even once.
Kept trying to pinpoint our way through the middle.
Don't even get me started on our insistence on playing out from the back like we're Man City or Barcelona putting us in trouble 6-7 times every game
I think he will keep us up. 3 goals conceded today were player fault. But I would not have taken Cairny off, Cav should have gone off.
Quote from: Hoppus on November 22, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: Bocanegra on November 22, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Really!?
We can not defend as a team, Parker and the coaching staff must take responsibility for that.
This was the defensive players' 3rd game together. How good is any group of strangers going to be at defending as a "team"?
parker's tactics today were a fundamental in our defeat
we are too slow and there is no movement at the front.
However the real culprit remains the man that failed to purchase any forwards and took weeks to get us center halves (who were both awful today) I will not mention the third that was purchased injured because tony loves buying injured center halves.
the quality of the squad was brutally exposed with lemina and reed being woefully out of their respective depths. cav is a bvery bad joke and i would play anyone ahead of him but that selection is parker's so he is showing a real lack of judgement.
I am doubting scott. he deserves the season but if he sticks to his current tactics we will not make 11 points, we are just way to slow and give away goals early in way to many games and that is his fault as it is a reapting thing.
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:00:17 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Disagree with OP. Played against a better side with a much better striker and lost by a goal.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
what does it matter if you lose by one or ten, the result is the same. Zero points
Is the team playing better football or are they playing just like they were week 1 and 2? I think so.
Are Fulham a better side than Brom..Sheff United and Burnley? I think so.
Is Scott Parker a good manager? Jury still out imo.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Hes got us playing decent stuff. Defensively still way to open. Would like to see him make a tactical change at half time sometimes though he seems really reluctant to change things unless its 70+ minutes.
He will continue to improve as a manager
he hasn't got us playing decent stuff at all. Once again we only started playing once the game was beyond us. And we aren't improving, we are still losing
ok
I'd honestly be interested to know what you enjoyed from that game today?
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Quote from: Statto on November 22, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Quote from: Hoppus on November 22, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: Bocanegra on November 22, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Really!?
We can not defend as a team, Parker and the coaching staff must take responsibility for that.
This was the defensive players' 3rd game together. How good is any group of strangers going to be at defending as a "team"?
Yep.
As somebody has already said Scott Parker cannot work miracles, Everton are no mugs and we pushed them all the way. We have a completely new defence and unfortunately at the moment it shows. The matches coming up will really test us and I am very concerned. Nevertheless, we have to stick together on this and battle our way through these games. Fulham already look a better team with better players than the last time we were in the Premier Division and that alone is encouraging. Sacking Scott is not the answer.
Quote from: clarkey on November 22, 2020, 02:03:07 PM
100% right. Parker has to go.
His selection was awful, he set the team up badly, we conceded within a minute, the free kicks were awful, the corners terrible, and the subs were wrong.
As Keown said in comm what are they doing all week: no drilling.
We were shambolic and that is all down to the sub standard lack of intelligence from the coach.He is all over the place. By keeping Cav on the field we played the whole match with ten men effectively.
And that pen was just so stupid, he ran up from the wrong angle...just dim.
Parker out now. Plenty of better coaches out there who are not so conceited.
Keown talks tripe. Makes it more difficult to justify the licence fee when the BBC pay a person of such shallow thinking to offer vacuous and unfounded "expert analysis". He is the master of post hoc rather than propter hoc commentary.
Quote from: Statto on November 22, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Quote from: Hoppus on November 22, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: Bocanegra on November 22, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Really!?
We can not defend as a team, Parker and the coaching staff must take responsibility for that.
This was the defensive players' 3rd game together. How good is any group of strangers going to be at defending as a "team"?
still defending the indefensible I see. One win in nine now. Pretty poor from a manager who has managed us for over 80 games now wouldn't you agree. When exactly is he going to start to learn
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
I still think we'll muster 25-32 points this season. But we'll go down. We'll be bottom by Xmas though based on fixtures and its nearly unheard of that that team survives. For all the moaning, not sure which commentator it was that said it, but 'how can you start a season and know you require a new back 5 to compete and only sort it after 5-6 games into season'. Nail on head. So many squandered points so far going into a horrific fixture list up to Xmas. I'd be surprised if we aren't trailing by 5-6 points at least to 17th. And a further gulf of 10+ after that.
Quote from: Plodder on November 22, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
Quote from: clarkey on November 22, 2020, 02:03:07 PM
100% right. Parker has to go.
His selection was awful, he set the team up badly, we conceded within a minute, the free kicks were awful, the corners terrible, and the subs were wrong.
As Keown said in comm what are they doing all week: no drilling.
We were shambolic and that is all down to the sub standard lack of intelligence from the coach.He is all over the place. By keeping Cav on the field we played the whole match with ten men effectively.
And that pen was just so stupid, he ran up from the wrong angle...just dim.
Parker out now. Plenty of better coaches out there who are not so conceited.
Keown talks tripe. Makes it more difficult to justify the licence fee when the BBC pay a person of such shallow thinking to offer vacuous and unfounded "expert analysis". He is the master of post hoc rather than propter hoc commentary.
whay about Murphy? He also blamed Parker for it in the half time talk, does he talk crap too. Actually can you find any pundit on the whole planet who thinks Parker knows what he is doing. Just one will do
Quote from: Statto on November 22, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Quote from: Hoppus on November 22, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: Bocanegra on November 22, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Really!?
We can not defend as a team, Parker and the coaching staff must take responsibility for that.
This was the defensive players' 3rd game together. How good is any group of strangers going to be at defending as a "team"?
Again, I dont think the issue was our back 4 as much as it was their lack of support on the wings.... through the middle of defence we did ok. Joachim made a few little mistakes with passing and Aina had his worst game for us...but.... our problem came from losing the battle on the wings with no support from pur wing players today, much due to the fact we had no forward so they were often more central and further forward.
Also our DMs were sloppy in possession too often first half...both Lemina and Reed play much better alongside the dominant Frank.
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:11:30 PM
Quote from: Plodder on November 22, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
Quote from: clarkey on November 22, 2020, 02:03:07 PM
100% right. Parker has to go.
His selection was awful, he set the team up badly, we conceded within a minute, the free kicks were awful, the corners terrible, and the subs were wrong.
As Keown said in comm what are they doing all week: no drilling.
We were shambolic and that is all down to the sub standard lack of intelligence from the coach.He is all over the place. By keeping Cav on the field we played the whole match with ten men effectively.
And that pen was just so stupid, he ran up from the wrong angle...just dim.
Parker out now. Plenty of better coaches out there who are not so conceited.
Keown talks tripe. Makes it more difficult to justify the licence fee when the BBC pay a person of such shallow thinking to offer vacuous and unfounded "expert analysis". He is the master of post hoc rather than propter hoc commentary.
whay about Murphy? He also blamed Parker for it in the half time talk, does he talk crap too. Actually can you find any pundit on the whole planet who thinks Parker knows what he is doing. Just one will do
Sadly, you'd find too many pundits jumping to excuse Parker and apportion blame elsewhere.
Quote from: Wingnut on November 22, 2020, 02:01:58 PM
Nope, disagree with you 100%. He's improving game on game. Got the XI wrong today and he corrected that as the game went on. The players are to blame for that first goal. Have to admit that I find his selection of Cav baffling. He's struggled for some time now. Must be dynamite in training.
I don't think he got the XI wrong today. What he did was give Mitro and Anguissa a small rest coming off a tough international week for them, which is not bad management. It just about worked too.
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:10:05 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 22, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Quote from: Hoppus on November 22, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: Bocanegra on November 22, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Really!?
We can not defend as a team, Parker and the coaching staff must take responsibility for that.
This was the defensive players' 3rd game together. How good is any group of strangers going to be at defending as a "team"?
still defending the indefensible I see. One win in nine now. Pretty poor from a manager who has managed us for over 80 games now wouldn't you agree. When exactly is he going to start to learn
When are you going to learn that the cycle of...
Sack manager in November
Sack another manager in February
Get relegated
Get promoted
Cock up the transfer window
Sack manager in November...
...doesn't work?
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 22, 2020, 02:08:42 PM
As somebody has already said Scott Parker cannot work miracles, Everton are no mugs and we pushed them all the way. We have a completely new defence and unfortunately at the moment it shows. The matches coming up will really test us and I am very concerned. Nevertheless, we have to stick together on this and battle our way through these games. Fulham already look a better team with better players than the last time we were in the Premier Division and that alone is encouraging. Sacking Scott is not the answer.
Well said, again we should have had a point today even after gifting 3 goals head start to the opposition.
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:12:21 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:11:30 PM
Quote from: Plodder on November 22, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
Quote from: clarkey on November 22, 2020, 02:03:07 PM
100% right. Parker has to go.
His selection was awful, he set the team up badly, we conceded within a minute, the free kicks were awful, the corners terrible, and the subs were wrong.
As Keown said in comm what are they doing all week: no drilling.
We were shambolic and that is all down to the sub standard lack of intelligence from the coach.He is all over the place. By keeping Cav on the field we played the whole match with ten men effectively.
And that pen was just so stupid, he ran up from the wrong angle...just dim.
Parker out now. Plenty of better coaches out there who are not so conceited.
Keown talks tripe. Makes it more difficult to justify the licence fee when the BBC pay a person of such shallow thinking to offer vacuous and unfounded "expert analysis". He is the master of post hoc rather than propter hoc commentary.
whay about Murphy? He also blamed Parker for it in the half time talk, does he talk crap too. Actually can you find any pundit on the whole planet who thinks Parker knows what he is doing. Just one will do
Sadly, you'd find too many pundits jumping to excuse Parker and apportion blame elsewhere.
and yet I don't know one pundit that thinks he knows what he is doing.
This topic is getting boring after every game.😠
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:07:51 PM
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Hes got us playing decent stuff. Defensively still way to open. Would like to see him make a tactical change at half time sometimes though he seems really reluctant to change things unless its 70+ minutes.
He will continue to improve as a manager
he hasn't got us playing decent stuff at all. Once again we only started playing once the game was beyond us. And we aren't improving, we are still losing
ok
I'd honestly be interested to know what you enjoyed from that game today?
Both goals and the move for the pen. Some nice triangles in the final third.
Agree we lack creativity, impetus and defending can be pretty bad but I just prefer to stay positive when it comes to Fulham. Criticism is justified and you are welcome to it mate.
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on November 22, 2020, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 22, 2020, 02:08:42 PM
As somebody has already said Scott Parker cannot work miracles, Everton are no mugs and we pushed them all the way. We have a completely new defence and unfortunately at the moment it shows. The matches coming up will really test us and I am very concerned. Nevertheless, we have to stick together on this and battle our way through these games. Fulham already look a better team with better players than the last time we were in the Premier Division and that alone is encouraging. Sacking Scott is not the answer.
Well said, again we should have had a point today even after gifting 3 goals head start to the opposition.
based on what, we didn't come close to an equaliser, areola made a few good saveS to make it less embarrassing though
I am backing Parker, at least until Christmas, I think heis close to getting this team working .
Would just question why he keeps giving Cav yet another chance.
Quote from: Statto on November 22, 2020, 02:13:26 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:10:05 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 22, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Quote from: Hoppus on November 22, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: Bocanegra on November 22, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Really!?
We can not defend as a team, Parker and the coaching staff must take responsibility for that.
This was the defensive players' 3rd game together. How good is any group of strangers going to be at defending as a "team"?
still defending the indefensible I see. One win in nine now. Pretty poor from a manager who has managed us for over 80 games now wouldn't you agree. When exactly is he going to start to learn
When are you going to learn that the cycle of...
Sack manager in November
Sack another manager in February
Get relegated
Get promoted
Cock up the transfer window
Sack manager in November...
...doesn't work?
Ugh its a tough one. IF and its a big IF, they really do make the change, they make it now. Gives ideally an experienced manager a month to work out exactly what he needs and to draw up targets for a January window. The other big IF is getting the appointment right. I hold no faith in our ability to do that. Saying that, I also hold little to no faith in Parkers ability as a EPL manager (at this point in time) so its a rock and a hard place.
I'm sticking to supporting Parker and seeing the season out but if he got sacked tomorrow, I wouldn't care too much.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Keown doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes a living being paid to say bs. Take no value in his or any other pundit's commentary.
Quote from: filham on November 22, 2020, 02:16:55 PM
I am backing Parker, at least until Christmas, I think heis close to getting this team working .
Would just question why he keeps giving Cav yet another chance.
The Cav thing is weird. Surely now Kebano/Kamara/RLC gets a go instead from the off
Quote from: Plodder on November 22, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
Quote from: clarkey on November 22, 2020, 02:03:07 PM
100% right. Parker has to go.
His selection was awful, he set the team up badly, we conceded within a minute, the free kicks were awful, the corners terrible, and the subs were wrong.
As Keown said in comm what are they doing all week: no drilling.
We were shambolic and that is all down to the sub standard lack of intelligence from the coach.He is all over the place. By keeping Cav on the field we played the whole match with ten men effectively.
And that pen was just so stupid, he ran up from the wrong angle...just dim.
Parker out now. Plenty of better coaches out there who are not so conceited.
Keown talks tripe. Makes it more difficult to justify the licence fee when the BBC pay a person of such shallow thinking to offer vacuous and unfounded "expert analysis". He is the master of post hoc rather than propter hoc commentary.
Completely disagree with you, sometimes he goes out of his way to try and give Fulham some praise,
He is not a Fulham supporter so he is not going to look at them like we do.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Keown doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes a living being paid to say bs. Take no value in his or any other pundit's commentary.
Are you suggesting Martin Keown doesn't know the basics of how to defend and what to look for when accessing how a team defends? Considering his career, that seems a bizarre position to take.
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Keown doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes a living being paid to say bs. Take no value in his or any other pundit's commentary.
Are you suggesting Martin Keown doesn't know the basics of how to defend and what to look for when accessing how a team defends? Considering his career, that seems a bizarre position to take.
I am. He said "They aren't drilled". How would he even know? Because he played professional football a long time ago? Man, that is some logic. So-called credentialed experts have no clue what they're talking about most of the time. Please think for yourself folks.
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Keown doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes a living being paid to say bs. Take no value in his or any other pundit's commentary.
Are you suggesting Martin Keown doesn't know the basics of how to defend and what to look for when accessing how a team defends? Considering his career, that seems a bizarre position to take.
+1
Two questions.
1. What is the desired result from firing Scott Parker right now.
2. Who is snap decision hiring u want us to make?
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Keown doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes a living being paid to say bs. Take no value in his or any other pundit's commentary.
Are you suggesting Martin Keown doesn't know the basics of how to defend and what to look for when accessing how a team defends? Considering his career, that seems a bizarre position to take.
I am. He said "They aren't drilled". How would he even know? Because he played professional football a long time ago? Man, that is some logic. So-called credentialed experts have no clue what they're talking about most of the time. Please think for yourself folks.
If you watch our defence in that instance, you can clearly see its not a drilled tactic though. Unless you really think Parker is saying to players 'right, let him run through unmarked and hope he misses. Yeh, don't block the initial cross if its taken poorly, and just let the lad run on his own. Got it? Good.' Thats the logic your defending here. The irony of you of all people asking people to think.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 22, 2020, 02:08:42 PM
As somebody has already said Scott Parker cannot work miracles, Everton are no mugs and we pushed them all the way. We have a completely new defence and unfortunately at the moment it shows. The matches coming up will really test us and I am very concerned. Nevertheless, we have to stick together on this and battle our way through these games. Fulham already look a better team with better players than the last time we were in the Premier Division and that alone is encouraging. Sacking Scott is not the answer.
Spot on. I couldn't agree more.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 02:25:50 PM
Two questions.
1. What is the desired result from firing Scott Parker right now.
2. Who is snap decision hiring u want us to make?
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
1. The desired result is the hope of finding someone who knows what he is doing. Are we officially on our worst ever start to a season in Our 141 year existence.
2. If we could get Benítez that would be amazing, but at this point, I really fail to see how any new manager could do worse.
On the 'drilled' thing from Keown. The back four plus the keeper have been together for weeks with Anderson out for some of those. Even the sainted Hodgson took longer than that.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 22, 2020, 02:30:46 PM
On the 'drilled' thing from Keown. The back four plus the keeper have been together for weeks with Anderson out for some of those. Even the sainted Hodgson took longer than that.
Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I think it goes past those 5 in what was discussed here. It was a set piece and I believe the main culprit was Cav wasn't it?
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Keown doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes a living being paid to say bs. Take no value in his or any other pundit's commentary.
Are you suggesting Martin Keown doesn't know the basics of how to defend and what to look for when accessing how a team defends? Considering his career, that seems a bizarre position to take.
I am. He said "They aren't drilled". How would he even know? Because he played professional football a long time ago? Man, that is some logic. So-called credentialed experts have no clue what they're talking about most of the time. Please think for yourself folks.
If you watch our defence in that instance, you can clearly see its not a drilled tactic though. Unless you really think Parker is saying to players 'right, let him run through unmarked and hope he misses. Yeh, don't block the initial cross if its taken poorly, and just let the lad run on his own. Got it? Good.' Thats the logic your defending here. The irony of you of all people asking people to think.
Yeah, you know as much as Martin Keown... which is nothing.
I'm not defending our defensive mistakes, lapses or whatever... but Martin Keown and you have absolutely no idea what drills they have or haven't been doing. The defense was poor in the first half and then didn't concede in the second half. Does that mean they did a bunch of drills at half-time?
I think the opposition sitting back on a 1-3 lead away from home was the reason our defence didn't concede 2nd half tbf.
Lol
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:32:18 PM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on November 22, 2020, 02:30:46 PM
On the 'drilled' thing from Keown. The back four plus the keeper have been together for weeks with Anderson out for some of those. Even the sainted Hodgson took longer than that.
Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I think it goes past those 5 in what was discussed here. It was a set piece and I believe the main culprit was Cav wasn't it?
Ok. I thought the comment Keown made was as a defender looking at our defending during a specific phase of play. Too late to dig deep into my memory now.
If there is to be an upside the BBC match report no longer has hapless, woeful or lacklustre in it.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:33:01 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Keown doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes a living being paid to say bs. Take no value in his or any other pundit's commentary.
Are you suggesting Martin Keown doesn't know the basics of how to defend and what to look for when accessing how a team defends? Considering his career, that seems a bizarre position to take.
I am. He said "They aren't drilled". How would he even know? Because he played professional football a long time ago? Man, that is some logic. So-called credentialed experts have no clue what they're talking about most of the time. Please think for yourself folks.
If you watch our defence in that instance, you can clearly see its not a drilled tactic though. Unless you really think Parker is saying to players 'right, let him run through unmarked and hope he misses. Yeh, don't block the initial cross if its taken poorly, and just let the lad run on his own. Got it? Good.' Thats the logic your defending here. The irony of you of all people asking people to think.
Yeah, you know as much as Martin Keown... which is nothing.
I'm not defending our defensive mistakes, lapses or whatever... but Martin Keown and you have absolutely no idea what drills they have or haven't been doing. The defense was poor in the first half and then didn't concede in the second half. Does that mean they did a bunch of drills at half-time?
Some excellent and thoroughly thought through arguments here. Hard to argue with those smarts.
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 02:25:50 PM
Two questions.
1. What is the desired result from firing Scott Parker right now.
2. Who is snap decision hiring u want us to make?
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
1. The desired result is the hope of finding someone who knows what he is doing. Are we officially on our worst ever start to a season in Our 141 year existence.
2. If we could get Benítez that would be amazing, but at this point, I really fail to see how any new manager could do worse.
I'm not firing Scott right now on the "hope" that someone who is currently unemployed and a "good" coach will ignore what happened to Fulham two years ago and think..."oh...I'm the one that can definitely keep them up. Great career move".
The team is playing decent football, and yes I see 3 teams that can finish lower than Fulham.
I don't believe in firing someone because we lose to better teams.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 02:42:17 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 02:25:50 PM
Two questions.
1. What is the desired result from firing Scott Parker right now.
2. Who is snap decision hiring u want us to make?
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
1. The desired result is the hope of finding someone who knows what he is doing. Are we officially on our worst ever start to a season in Our 141 year existence.
2. If we could get Benítez that would be amazing, but at this point, I really fail to see how any new manager could do worse.
I'm not firing Scott right now on the "hope" that someone who is currently unemployed and a "good" coach will ignore what happened to Fulham two years ago and think..."oh...I'm the one that can definitely keep them up. Great career move".
The team is playing decent football, and yes I see 3 teams that can finish lower than Fulham.
I don't believe in firing someone because we lose to better teams.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
+1
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 02:42:17 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on November 22, 2020, 02:25:50 PM
Two questions.
1. What is the desired result from firing Scott Parker right now.
2. Who is snap decision hiring u want us to make?
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
1. The desired result is the hope of finding someone who knows what he is doing. Are we officially on our worst ever start to a season in Our 141 year existence.
2. If we could get Benítez that would be amazing, but at this point, I really fail to see how any new manager could do worse.
I'm not firing Scott right now on the "hope" that someone who is currently unemployed and a "good" coach will ignore what happened to Fulham two years ago and think..."oh...I'm the one that can definitely keep them up. Great career move".
The team is playing decent football, and yes I see 3 teams that can finish lower than Fulham.
I don't believe in firing someone because we lose to better teams.
Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk
Completely agree
Overall I was not surprised by todays overall result - we were not likely to get three points, a draw would be the best we could have hoped for given the status of both teams, the early season form and how settled the squads are.
One thing that did stand out for me though was that after going one down in less than a minute, our heads didn't drop, we didn't just sit back and look to soak up pressure and then concede the inevitable second goal in quick succession. Instead we went on the offensive, we pushed, played some good football, and looked to claw our way back into the game. That is a 180 degree difference from our last Prem excursion.
The goals we gave up were soft, defensive errors that, even though we do have a defensive line that are still getting gelled, we should not expect to make, and that is down to the training ground.
Given the HT stats, and then comparing them to the FT stats, it showed that both the HT talk and the changes made did have a positive impact, even 1-3 down, we fought in the second 45, and took the game the Everton much more than they brought it to us. That indicates that SP IS learning, he understands what he needs to do to tune the formation on the pitch, though leaving the first changes until alomst the hour mark was a mistake. He obviously waited to see if his tactical changes at HT would work, but 15 minutes was too long, those changes should have been in by the 50 minute mark.
As for Cav, he did show some good touches, though Everton did what they do best by closing down the midfield. I noted that when they lost possession, within seconds they had at least 8 behind the ball. Lookman was quiet today, DCR played well, but it was right to sub him, and LC looks the part for that, like to see him a starter going on.
I put this one as a 1-2 loss for us, and was not unduly upset by the result, though it was a slim chance for us to put a little chink of daylight between ourselves and the bottom three, and it will depend on how we play against Leicester that determines if SP is actually improving or not. I feel he is, but it may not be enough to keep us up.
I concur with the overall take of Logicalman there. If we stay up it won't be by much and our attack -- on paper and in practice -- isn't a patch on Everton's on that first half showing of theirs (as well as their opening day at Tottenham). That's just the way it is.
There are a fair few things to like about the way we are starting to play, however, and if we can manage not to be too downhearted by the next three fixtures, then maybe we can begin to progress. Scoring pens would help.
About a month back I was calling for Scott to be sacked but i think we have definitely improved and there is no question that players are playing for him .we have had terrible luck or leadership with penalties but I think there are 3 worse teams than us in this league thats for sure .
I think we need a bit of luck and less errors (which no coach can help)but we will ok .
The decision to get rid of Parker is not based on whether we lose to better teams.There are some good teams out there and we will lose to them.
It is based, or should be, on whether or not we are getting the best out of the squad of players we have assembled and if the liaison of the coach with the people who buy the players has been good enough and insightful enough.
I would argue that the players we have got in have been fairly good. Not as bad as two years ago and the group of players we currently have is as good if not better than at least 5 in the Prem.
In the other column though is a huge negative. We are not getting anywhere like a high enough return from what we have. And the team's overall performances are woefully inadequate in basic areas.Looking at how poor we were last year in the Championship in lots of our play I am amazed Parker got a three year contract. Why did he ?
Look at how we play, are we incredibly unlucky every week or could we make things luckier for ourselves by working harder and getting the basics right ?
Think of the short corners today where not once but twice the tactic left us conceding a free kick for offside. Think of the numerous examples of poor free kicks, not to mention terrible penalties and set plays. All of these are in the control of the coach.
Look at the marking by our defence. How organised does it look. Are the opposition frequently able to cross unchallenged, to get in unchallenged headers, to win the ball back after attacks. How is the defence at getting back into shape, and how does the midfield spring counter attacks. Until recently not at all.
How does Fulham start a match: well or badly. After half time do we improve markedly or are we usually even worse.Is the team set up right mentally and physically ?
Is our subbing any good, right time, often enough ?
Can our coach out think other coaches, is he innovative, quick to react, ahead of the oppo ? Do we have a flexible team formation and tactics or have we been incredibly predictable ? In the Championship how many times did we fail to maximise our advantages where our squad was much better than many teams.
In short we have seen Parker get a bit better, but he is hardly an inspired, experienced and knowledgeable coach. His selection is poor, his flexibility is questionable and his game play is falling short at every hurdle.Just on the law of averages he will sometimes get things right (Bryan's free kick in the Play off final) but nine times out of ten he will not (all the other things).
How come with a good player like Tom Cirney he fails to understand where to play him ? How can he keep picking one of our worst players in the squad when he contributes nothing ? How come our shortest player often matches up with their tallest at corners...it is all weird decision making.
So that's why we are not winning and why other coaches who were not such a good player as Scott but certainly are brighter individuals are much better coaches. And get more points. They do not cost the earth, the top ones do, but the Dean Smiths and Eddie Howes are out there.And better than Scotty especially Eddie Howe who is available.
Just ask yourself what was the decision making process that lead to Anguissa not starting today ? To Lookman being so isolated when we needed him on the ball and running at opponents ? To Cav taking that penalty and to us twice screwing up short corners ?
Martin Keown lives in the past when he goes on about how well he was drilled to defend properly.
In his day offside was offside regardless of whether another player was interfering with play or not. It was far easier to hold a good defensive line and you did not have to bother about the player standing yards offside.
West Ham's goal last game would have been flagged offside in Keowns days and he would be extolling how good his defensive line was. Yes our defence is poor but all teams are giving more goals away because no one seems to know what is and what is not offside and how you are supposed to react to these situations.
Times change but some commentators don't. The game has moved on and probably not for the better as far as offside is concerned.
If Scott isn't sacked by Xmas we can call English bias. Jokanovic was sacked earlier in his first Premier League season and he had similar results. Jokanovic 5 points from 12 games, Parker 4 points from 9 games. And with Leicester (A), City (A) and Liverpool (H) as our next 3, I can see us in the bottom 3.
I adore Scott as a person but as a manager he hasn't got a clue. Team selection, subs and training methods will cost him his job eventually. Aina, Cavaleiro and Lemina should be nowhere near the starting XI. Don't care how "well" they work in training, it's all about consistency. Cav has been pony since signing permanently and Lemina and Aina have both had ONE good game each. Aina is actually the worst RB I've seen at Fulham for a while. I'm actually crying that we got him in and let Cyrus go out on loan. Odoi should start next game. RLC should be starting over Lemina from now on. Tony Khan also needs to look at himself for not signing a back-up striker in the summer window. Of course no-one could have guessed that Mitro's poor form and our horrible curse with penalties would be a thing but.....here we are. Felt sorry for Bobby and TC today. Didn't deserve to be subbed.
A slightly different view but I see Norwich are riding high in the Championship which makes the point that maybe consistency is something to factor in! Should we go down we will have a better squad and SP would get us up imo. I still think we can survive.
Quote from: Statto on November 22, 2020, 02:06:40 PM
Quote from: Hoppus on November 22, 2020, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: Bocanegra on November 22, 2020, 01:58:13 PM
For me the errors that are taking place can't be placed on Scott.
Really!?
We can not defend as a team, Parker and the coaching staff must take responsibility for that.
This was the defensive players' 3rd game together. How good is any group of strangers going to be at defending as a "team"?
Got to agree with Statto here.... give this back 4 some more time and they will be a lot tighter. We always knew this season was going to be very tough. As long as there are 3 teams worse than us, we will stay up. We might struggle to get 34 points, but this season that could well be enough!
COYW
Quote from: clarkey on November 22, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
The decision to get rid of Parker is not based on whether we lose to better teams.There are some good teams out there and we will lose to them.
It is based, or should be, on whether or not we are getting the best out of the squad of players we have assembled and if the liaison of the coach with the people who buy the players has been good enough and insightful enough.
I would argue that the players we have got in have been fairly good. Not as bad as two years ago and the group of players we currently have is as good if not better than at least 5 in the Prem.
In the other column though is a huge negative. We are not getting anywhere like a high enough return from what we have. And the team's overall performances are woefully inadequate in basic areas.Looking at how poor we were last year in the Championship in lots of our play I am amazed Parker got a three year contract. Why did he ?
Look at how we play, are we incredibly unlucky every week or could we make things luckier for ourselves by working harder and getting the basics right ?
Think of the short corners today where not once but twice the tactic left us conceding a free kick for offside. Think of the numerous examples of poor free kicks, not to mention terrible penalties and set plays. All of these are in the control of the coach.
Look at the marking by our defence. How organised does it look. Are the opposition frequently able to cross unchallenged, to get in unchallenged headers, to win the ball back after attacks. How is the defence at getting back into shape, and how does the midfield spring counter attacks. Until recently not at all.
How does Fulham start a match: well or badly. After half time do we improve markedly or are we usually even worse.Is the team set up right mentally and physically ?
Is our subbing any good, right time, often enough ?
Can our coach out think other coaches, is he innovative, quick to react, ahead of the oppo ? Do we have a flexible team formation and tactics or have we been incredibly predictable ? In the Championship how many times did we fail to maximise our advantages where our squad was much better than many teams.
In short we have seen Parker get a bit better, but he is hardly an inspired, experienced and knowledgeable coach. His selection is poor, his flexibility is questionable and his game play is falling short at every hurdle.Just on the law of averages he will sometimes get things right (Bryan's free kick in the Play off final) but nine times out of ten he will not (all the other things).
How come with a good player like Tom Cirney he fails to understand where to play him ? How can he keep picking one of our worst players in the squad when he contributes nothing ? How come our shortest player often matches up with their tallest at corners...it is all weird decision making.
So that's why we are not winning and why other coaches who were not such a good player as Scott but certainly are brighter individuals are much better coaches. And get more points. They do not cost the earth, the top ones do, but the Dean Smiths and Eddie Howes are out there.And better than Scotty especially Eddie Howe who is available.
Just ask yourself what was the decision making process that lead to Anguissa not starting today ? To Lookman being so isolated when we needed him on the ball and running at opponents ? To Cav taking that penalty and to us twice screwing up short corners ?
Isn't playing better in the second half a sign of good management? Adjustments made, subs made... if there is one half you want to play well in it is always the second half. I actually think Parker out managed Ancelotti today. Could have, should have been 3-3 in the end.
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on November 22, 2020, 04:32:03 PM
A slightly different view but I see Norwich are riding high in the Championship which makes the point that maybe consistency is something to factor in! Should we go down we will have a better squad and SP would get us up imo. I still think we can survive.
This! Often the crowd is wrong.
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on November 22, 2020, 04:32:03 PM
A slightly different view but I see Norwich are riding high in the Championship which makes the point that maybe consistency is something to factor in! Should we go down we will have a better squad and SP would get us up imo. I still think we can survive.
All the teams that went down this year largely kept their squads together (all only lost a couple of starters). If we go down most of our team will leave - Areola, Anderssen, Aina, Lemina, RLC and Lookman will all go back to their parent clubs, and we'll probably lose a couple of others.
Quote from: LittleErn on November 22, 2020, 02:00:24 PM
Don't think he should go. He's not a miracle worker so why expect it. The team are improving. I do think he made the wrong team selection decisions. The next two games are not really winnable so no need to rest players. I also think he took the wrong players off when making the obvious substitutes. ( Unless there were injuries that weren't obvious.)
I certainly think the intial team selection was wrong. I thought the subs were good but should have been done sooner...Certainly wouldn't have started Cav though.
From Parkers interview seems like Cav was only on to take a penalty.
Every game is the same: we start terribly but show capability by the end; too late to get a result but enough to get Scott another game in charge. Rinse, repeat...
It's getting a bit tiresome. At some point, Scott will need to get the team right from the off...
Observations from today: Cav isn't a centre forward (nor a premier league player); RLC should be getting more time; Anguissa is important for us; Lookman should stay on the left side of our attack; Robinson is a great player.
Consistently selecting Cav, and consistently failing to psych up our shower so they don't go out and ball watch for the first 5 minutes of every half they play.........
Sufficient evidence to have the judge reaching for the black cap in my opinion anyway.
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on November 22, 2020, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on November 22, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Southcoastffc on November 22, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Martin Keown's comment on our defence when we nearly conceded after an Everton free kick could not be more damning: "They're not drilled." I find it very hard to imagine that we'll avoid not just relegation but an embarrassing relegation.
Keown doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes a living being paid to say bs. Take no value in his or any other pundit's commentary.
Are you suggesting Martin Keown doesn't know the basics of how to defend and what to look for when accessing how a team defends? Considering his career, that seems a bizarre position to take.
I am. He said "They aren't drilled". How would he even know? Because he played professional football a long time ago? Man, that is some logic. So-called credentialed experts have no clue what they're talking about most of the time. Please think for yourself folks.
If you watch our defence in that instance, you can clearly see its not a drilled tactic though. Unless you really think Parker is saying to players 'right, let him run through unmarked and hope he misses. Yeh, don't block the initial cross if its taken poorly, and just let the lad run on his own. Got it? Good.' Thats the logic your defending here. The irony of you of all people asking people to think.
Keown another BBC cronie.
He played football in another era.
Boring as hell and looks like he is prehistoric.
Cannot stand him
I have always been Parker out until he won me with the playoffs. I think he will make a good coach in a few years, but he needs to be a bit more flexible. At this point I would rather keep him unless we could get someone like Howe in. No more Magaths, no more Ranieris. If by some miracle we survive then we build and truly see what Scott can do. If we are inevitably relegated then I think we're in a good position for storming the Championship, financially more stable with some good players that will take the step down (Tosin, Robinson as well as the old guard). If I keep seeing improvement then I'm with Scott, if we grow stale then I'm Parker Out.
Tbh would gladly see Parker go if we could get someone like Benitez in, otherwise would stick with Scott rather than get Howe or someone of that ilk
Quote from: hopper on November 22, 2020, 05:32:45 PM
Tbh would gladly see Parker go if we could get someone like Benitez in, otherwise would stick with Scott rather than get Howe or someone of that ilk
Agreed. Benitez is really the only manager I'd be interested in right now, mid-season.
If Scott takes us down, I'd quite like to see us go for the bloke from
Brentford next season though.
Cav always needs more then one touch, he can never pass and move.
Quote from: Radiowhite on November 22, 2020, 01:55:17 PM
I completely disagree
Yeah me too, but it is frustrating. Maybe his selection could have been better. But I look at a game like todays', and I still think a point was there to be taken. Sadly, our improved backline defense flopped. Had we played D as we did the previous two games, maybe could have nicked a point?
If FFC wants to survive, these are the type of games where you should at least look to get a point. Even against a superior opponent. But, at home, with a revived defense, these are points that are essential for survival.
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 22, 2020, 05:35:59 PM
Quote from: hopper on November 22, 2020, 05:32:45 PM
Tbh would gladly see Parker go if we could get someone like Benitez in, otherwise would stick with Scott rather than get Howe or someone of that ilk
Agreed. Benitez is really the only manager I'd be interested in right now, mid-season.
If Scott takes us down, I'd quite like to see us go for the bloke from
Brentford next season though.
Fulham have not got enough chewing gum in stock for the bloke from Brentford who cannot keep his mouth shut.
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on November 22, 2020, 04:32:03 PM
A slightly different view but I see Norwich are riding high in the Championship which makes the point that maybe consistency is something to factor in! Should we go down we will have a better squad and SP would get us up imo. I still think we can survive.
Agreed
Keep Parker but he made some selection mistakes today. Both at the start and who he took off in the 2nd half. We still have a chance though, and I can't see how changing manger helps us going into the next few games. If things are bleak at Christmas then ok. Right now, we are fortunate there are 3 poor teams below is which we need to ensure stay below us
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Hes got us playing decent stuff. Defensively still way to open. Would like to see him make a tactical change at half time sometimes though he seems really reluctant to change things unless its 70+ minutes.
He will continue to improve as a manager
he hasn't got us playing decent stuff at all. Once again we only started playing once the game was beyond us. And we aren't improving, we are still losing
Erm ... Ben, we scored arguably the best goal of the match to level at 1-1.
That is THE complete opposite of only playing once the game is beyond us.
I get that you don't rate Parker since you harp on about it all the bleedin' time but at least be accurate in your appraisals
Quote from: FFC In Oz on November 22, 2020, 02:05:46 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 22, 2020, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: hongkongfulham on November 22, 2020, 01:59:30 PM
Hes got us playing decent stuff. Defensively still way to open. Would like to see him make a tactical change at half time sometimes though he seems really reluctant to change things unless its 70+ minutes.
He will continue to improve as a manager
he hasn't got us playing decent stuff at all. Once again we only started playing once the game was beyond us. And we aren't improving, we are still losing
We used no width and didn't get anyone in behind. Not even once.
Guess you missed our second goal then when Lookman passed their left back on the outside and cut the ball back from the byline for RLC to score
Despite the game becoming more and more like a computer game. I wish some of our fans would stop blaming the coach for missed penalties and resting players who had only come back from International duty. Does anybody really believe that a coach would change the team that much? Everybody mentions some names and frankly I wouldn't trust any of them with this team.
No, Parker needs to stay. TK gave him this team only 3-4 games ago ... I think overall we are improving, we need a back up striker and capitalize our chances. With players like Mitro, RLC, Lookman, Zambo, TC, Robinson and Tete we have quality and we'll get more points on the board. If we are more aggressive from the start, I even believe we may have a chance to get a point against Leicester. Since Parker in charge we often bounce back after a bad result. Fingers crossed.
I was really impressed by the way we came back into this game, when it looked like they would run riot and demolish us.
Well done the players - they really gave their all and dint drop their heads, and nearly managed a draw, and to Scott for changing things in the second half.
After the first half , i was thinking we're down, but at the end, i was thinking this team had a chance of staying up.
Quote from: RaySmith on November 22, 2020, 06:37:23 PM
I was really impressed by the way we came back into this game, when it looked like they would run riot and demolish us.
Well done the players - they really gave their all and dint drop their heads, and nearly managed a draw, and to Scott for changing things in the second half.
After the first half , i was thinking we're down, but at the end, i was thinking this team had a chance of staying up.
+1
I think offensively at times we can be quick and fluid.Defensively we look a mess and a goal waiting to happen we can't handle pace or quality movement or pressure.
Quote from: AJW48361 on November 22, 2020, 07:29:17 PM
I think offensively at times we can be quick and fluid.Defensively we look a mess and a goal waiting to happen we can't handle pace or quality movement or pressure.
In the first half that was definitely the case, but how many chances did they create in the second? We looked the far more likely to score.
Parker changed it round.
Ok, so maybe the starting formation was wrong, but at least he recognised the problem, and the players implemented a far more sound defence.
He has got the starting 11 wrong a few times this season (as many on here have posted when the team in topic has been started) and each time we have lost. It is no consolation that we play better in the 2nd half and still end up losing and then the following week he starts with a different 11 to the team we ended up with in the previous match. This musical chairs approach doesn't work and isn't working! The only positive thing is we are not being hammered in every game, the next 3 games should be interesting, probably no points for us but that we put in good performances.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 22, 2020, 05:58:16 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 22, 2020, 05:35:59 PM
Quote from: hopper on November 22, 2020, 05:32:45 PM
Tbh would gladly see Parker go if we could get someone like Benitez in, otherwise would stick with Scott rather than get Howe or someone of that ilk
Agreed. Benitez is really the only manager I'd be interested in right now, mid-season.
If Scott takes us down, I'd quite like to see us go for the bloke from
Brentford next season though.
Fulham have not got enough chewing gum in stock for the bloke from Brentford who cannot keep his mouth shut.
Apparently Tony Khan is flying in an aeroplane full of Beech Nut.....Can you still get them from a machine on the wall.🤔
Quote from: RaySmith on November 23, 2020, 06:04:16 AM
Quote from: AJW48361 on November 22, 2020, 07:29:17 PM
I think offensively at times we can be quick and fluid.Defensively we look a mess and a goal waiting to happen we can't handle pace or quality movement or pressure.
In the first half that was definitely the case, but how many chances did they create in the second? We looked the far more likely to score.
Parker changed it round.
Ok, so maybe the starting formation was wrong, but at least he recognised the problem, and the players implemented a far more sound defence.
I disagree.
I can't recall Pickford being tested.
We had a deflected goal and Cavaleiro's joke of a pen.
We didn't threaten at any other stage, particularly after it was 3-2.
Everton sat on their lead comfortably and actually created more opportunities on the counter
Parker has to go ... where?
I am glad I didn't come on here yesterday afternoon and have to read the same repetitive and pessimistic November garbage we have had to endure so much of since the Khans' arrived. I am so pleased for the simpletons who believe that changing a manager/coach repairs all ills and look forward to their peer reviewed evidence of same in the Khan era. At least that will make me laugh.
We conceded a goal in forty odd seconds and three goals by half time yesterday and yet, with a little more confidence at the moments the game did turn, we could have got one or even three points on another day. I can fault a few things with FFC yesterday but the Khans are incapable of engaging their brains when it comes to 'what is really wrong at FFC' and changing Parker without changing other even bigger problems isn't going to work. IMO.
SP has said he dropped Mitro and Zambo for tactical reasons !!
Drop Mitro maybe but Zambo, who is currently (IMO) our best outfield player....no way. And then to compound his mistake he started Cav !!
When he made the subs, and got them both on we were much more threatening. Lewin even said after that second half he felt they were lucky to get the win.
We definitely dropped one and maybe even two points yesterday, tactically our manager got it very wrong.
Cavaleiro is poo
I don't think Scott Parker is the best manager out there, nor the worst.
If we replace him, does anyone really believe that any other manager could turn these players into winners? I don't. To me, the biggest issue is the enormous gulf in talent between our team and the opposition.
Talk about tactics all you want but when players lose the ball under pressure, they will do the same whether we're playing 4-3-3, 5-3-2 or whatever formation.
I question the lack of leadership ON the pitch. Someone could have landed a small plane on the free space on the right-hand-side of our defence. Where was the shouting from experienced players to get Aina back into position. Who was taking responsibility for plugging the gap? Players at this level should not need coaching for such basic errors.
Sadly (and I pray I am proved wrong), it looks like we're going down but I'd only bother sacking Scott Parker if we honestly believe someone else could come in and change that.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on November 23, 2020, 07:41:58 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 22, 2020, 05:58:16 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 22, 2020, 05:35:59 PM
Quote from: hopper on November 22, 2020, 05:32:45 PM
Tbh would gladly see Parker go if we could get someone like Benitez in, otherwise would stick with Scott rather than get Howe or someone of that ilk
Agreed. Benitez is really the only manager I'd be interested in right now, mid-season.
If Scott takes us down, I'd quite like to see us go for the bloke from
Brentford next season though.
Fulham have not got enough chewing gum in stock for the bloke from Brentford who cannot keep his mouth shut.
Apparently Tony Khan is flying in an aeroplane full of Beech Nut.....Can you still get them from a machine on the wall.🤔
That machine on the wall only supplies Rubbers.
Scott can only work with the players our wonderful recruitment department have given him.
We are an unbalanced team. We needed another forward who gets a few goals and can be picked when mitro is not in form.
The defence was thrown together quickly after 4-5 games in , I think they can be a good defence but they needed to be assembled before the season started and given a short pre season to integrate - instead they have been thrown in under tremendous pressure after a bad start to the season. We've been a bit unlucky with Tete injury as well.
Stick with Scott but if not only Eddie Howe would do for me. But if Eddie has any sense he won't take the job - back to back relegations and he'll only get a league one job at best.
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 23, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
The thing is I just don't see the point in sacking the manager if TK stays as DoF. It's like responding to a leaky pipe by continuously putting new towels around it.
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 23, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
The thing is I just don't see the point in sacking the manager if TK stays as DoF. It's like responding to a leaky pipe by continuously putting new towels around it.
the point is a new manager would try something different. we know we arent good enough under parker thats just a fact. one win is nine is shocking, absolutely shocking. how bad does it have to get
Quote from: fulhamben on November 23, 2020, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 23, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
The thing is I just don't see the point in sacking the manager if TK stays as DoF. It's like responding to a leaky pipe by continuously putting new towels around it.
the point is a new manager would try something different. we know we arent good enough under parker thats just a fact. one win is nine is shocking, absolutely shocking. how bad does it have to get
Out of the frying pan into the fire you reckon, that is not very bright.
As Statto has clearly stated, no point in sacking the manager if the real culprit stays as D of F.
Also as Crave mad has said, TK is the more useless and has left us with an inadequate unbalanced squad......again, yet you never mention him, he is the catalyst in all that is wrong.
The next six matches we really need a minimum of 10 out of 18 points to keep in touch with the rest of the herd. A big ask maybe, but a reasonable target all the same. If the owners son abandons Scott Parker in the January transfer market, then you need to go for his neck first before anyone else.
Quote from: Luka on November 23, 2020, 09:37:21 AM
SP has said he dropped Mitro and Zambo for tactical reasons !!
Drop Mitro maybe but Zambo, who is currently (IMO) our best outfield player....no way. And then to compound his mistake he started Cav !!
When he made the subs, and got them both on we were much more threatening. Lewin even said after that second half he felt they were lucky to get the win.
We definitely dropped one and maybe even two points yesterday, tactically our manager got it very wrong.
Brentford was the last time he got it right.
Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 24, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 23, 2020, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 23, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
The thing is I just don't see the point in sacking the manager if TK stays as DoF. It's like responding to a leaky pipe by continuously putting new towels around it.
the point is a new manager would try something different. we know we arent good enough under parker thats just a fact. one win is nine is shocking, absolutely shocking. how bad does it have to get
Out of the frying pan into the fire you reckon, that is not very bright.
As Statto has clearly stated, no point in sacking the manager if the real culprit stays as D of F.
Also as Crave mad has said, TK is the more useless and has left us with an inadequate unbalanced squad......again, yet you never mention him, he is the catalyst in all that is wrong.
The next six matches we really need a minimum of 10 out of 18 points to keep in touch with the rest of the herd. A big ask maybe, but a reasonable target all the same. If the owners son abandons Scott Parker in the January transfer market, then you need to go for his neck first before anyone else.
whats the point in mentioning Tony. He doesn't pick the tactics, formation or team. The squad isn't going to change anytime soon, so what can he do now other than get us an average/ to good manager. And the bit about the transfer market makes no sense as you blame Tony for the poor performances, so how will more of his players help Scott if he can't manage the players Tony has already given him. I actually think we have good enough players to stay up, but not good enough to play Parker ball and stay up. And let's be honest if we don't make a change soon, we will be cut well adrift for the 17th spot making good January acquisitions neigh on impossible.
I have not spoken up on this forum in quite a while, but here goes: Parker isns't perfect, he makes rookie managerial mistake imo. But overall he's fine. Sacking him will just create more churn in a topsy-turvy world which frankly needs a good dose of stability at the moment. I say ride out Scott till the end of the season. At least until the world calms down a bit and we get some semblance of normalcy back. Heck we still have the ground under construction. ENOUGH of the constant call for more change. New players at the window? Sure. But I gurantee, there are no instant solutions out there in a Tony Pulis of whomever you are thinking.
Quote from: fulhamben on November 24, 2020, 12:53:28 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 24, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 23, 2020, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 23, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
The thing is I just don't see the point in sacking the manager if TK stays as DoF. It's like responding to a leaky pipe by continuously putting new towels around it.
the point is a new manager would try something different. we know we arent good enough under parker thats just a fact. one win is nine is shocking, absolutely shocking. how bad does it have to get
Out of the frying pan into the fire you reckon, that is not very bright.
As Statto has clearly stated, no point in sacking the manager if the real culprit stays as D of F.
Also as Crave mad has said, TK is the more useless and has left us with an inadequate unbalanced squad......again, yet you never mention him, he is the catalyst in all that is wrong.
The next six matches we really need a minimum of 10 out of 18 points to keep in touch with the rest of the herd. A big ask maybe, but a reasonable target all the same. If the owners son abandons Scott Parker in the January transfer market, then you need to go for his neck first before anyone else.
whats the point in mentioning Tony. He doesn't pick the tactics, formation or team. The squad isn't going to change anytime soon, so what can he do now other than get us an average/ to good manager. And the bit about the transfer market makes no sense as you blame Tony for the poor performances, so how will more of his players help Scott if he can't manage the players Tony has already given him. I actually think we have good enough players to stay up, but not good enough to play Parker ball and stay up. And let's be honest if we don't make a change soon, we will be cut well adrift for the 17th spot making good January acquisitions neigh on impossible.
To a certain extent a manager is only as good as the players he has at his disposal. It is a brand new defence which was conceived due to the owners sons scatter gun approach, with no consideration as usual for the type of character needed. Aina is already identified as not premier standard, too many players far too late brought in and not a striker amongst them, how incompetent can a so called D of F can get, and yet he was still signing defenders almost up to the last minute when it was bleeding obvious we needed another striker. Too little too late again and again, and once again some of these players were not fit and or injured, we have been here before, TK is a laughing stock amongst agents as well as supporters while he impersonates a D of F.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 24, 2020, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 24, 2020, 12:53:28 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 24, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 23, 2020, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 23, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
The thing is I just don't see the point in sacking the manager if TK stays as DoF. It's like responding to a leaky pipe by continuously putting new towels around it.
the point is a new manager would try something different. we know we arent good enough under parker thats just a fact. one win is nine is shocking, absolutely shocking. how bad does it have to get
Out of the frying pan into the fire you reckon, that is not very bright.
As Statto has clearly stated, no point in sacking the manager if the real culprit stays as D of F.
Also as Crave mad has said, TK is the more useless and has left us with an inadequate unbalanced squad......again, yet you never mention him, he is the catalyst in all that is wrong.
The next six matches we really need a minimum of 10 out of 18 points to keep in touch with the rest of the herd. A big ask maybe, but a reasonable target all the same. If the owners son abandons Scott Parker in the January transfer market, then you need to go for his neck first before anyone else.
whats the point in mentioning Tony. He doesn't pick the tactics, formation or team. The squad isn't going to change anytime soon, so what can he do now other than get us an average/ to good manager. And the bit about the transfer market makes no sense as you blame Tony for the poor performances, so how will more of his players help Scott if he can't manage the players Tony has already given him. I actually think we have good enough players to stay up, but not good enough to play Parker ball and stay up. And let's be honest if we don't make a change soon, we will be cut well adrift for the 17th spot making good January acquisitions neigh on impossible.
To a certain extent a manager is only as good as the players he has at his disposal. It is a brand new defence which was conceived due to the owners sons scatter gun approach, with no consideration as usual for the type of character needed. Aina is already identified as not premier standard, too many players far too late brought in and not a striker amongst them, how incompetent can a so called D of F can get, and yet he was still signing defenders almost up to the last minute when it was bleeding obvious we needed another striker. Too little too late again and again, and once again some of these players were not fit and or injured, we have been here before, TK is a laughing stock amongst agents as well as supporters while he impersonates a D of F.
We tried to buy Matt Cash (RB), Bertrand Traoré (RW), and Ollie Watkins (CF) early in the window, but teams promoted through the playoff never get to sign players of their quality. Any Playoff promoted Club has to buy the players other premier league teams reject, and frankly, there is not much premier league quality left. Norwich's plan is the best to follow if we want to stay in the premier league.
Yes TRF, that's the problem Fulham face at the moment - getting targets to come to Fulham, when they have other offers from established Prem clubs, or even newly promoted club seen as having a greater prospect of actually staying up.
So, I think we've done well to get the players in we have, and who have definitely given us a lot better chance of staying in the Prem league.
Quote from: RaySmith on November 24, 2020, 04:40:40 AM
Yes TRF, that's the problem Fulham face at the moment - getting targets to come to Fulham, when they have other offers from established Prem clubs, or even newly promoted club seen as having a greater prospect of actually staying up.
So, I think we've done well to get the players in we have, and who have definitely given us a lot better chance of staying in the Prem league.
The Championship team promoted with the Best Defense seems to be the one best positioned, for example, 19/20 Leeds, 18/19 Sheffield United, 17/18 Wolves, and 16/17 Newcastle. If we go down, Fulham has acquired some good defenders to be the best defense in the championship, and importantly they are young with long careers ahead of them.
Quote from: Sgt Fulham on November 22, 2020, 01:57:26 PM
For his insistence on playing Cav.
Yeah, that is the part that I mostly hate. Mario Lemina and Cavaleiro playing for 90 minutes the other day says it all.
Quote from: SouthIslandWhite on November 24, 2020, 01:16:09 AM
I have not spoken up on this forum in quite a while, but here goes: Parker isns't perfect, he makes rookie managerial mistake imo. But overall he's fine. Sacking him will just create more churn in a topsy-turvy world which frankly needs a good dose of stability at the moment. I say ride out Scott till the end of the season. At least until the world calms down a bit and we get some semblance of normalcy back. Heck we still have the ground under construction. ENOUGH of the constant call for more change. New players at the window? Sure. But I gurantee, there are no instant solutions out there in a Tony Pulis of whomever you are thinking.
:plus one:
I'm old enough to remember Bobby Robson and I think Parker is a good manager with the makings of a very good one. I'm also old enough to remember the season of three managers - and how far that got us. It's time for some stability.
What we do not need is a new manager coming in who has not got the confidence of the dressing room (like Ranieri) and changing style at this stage of the season. At times, we're good and certainly good enough to win the little league of four at the bottom. The players need to start by cutting out schoolboy errors but they do seem to want to play for Parker and we shouldn't underestimate the value of that.
It's sad to see so many people willing to throw the towel in and literally start again.
It's interesting to watch Sheffield United as Wilder was heralded by many on here as a cracking manager. So, what's happened, has he turned useless overnight? Should he be sacked? Their start is worse than ours and they're coming off a season that was way better? Should Bilic go too? Does any manager in the bottom 3 anywhere need to get sacked?
There are two good examples of why i think we should hold onto Scott:
1) Southampton last season were 19th around this time, coming off a 9 (nine) 0 home defeat. Look at them now after retaining Hassenhutl.
2) Norwich finished bottom last season, fairly comprehensively. They retained their manager and are currently sitting top of the championship.
I get so fed up with the negativity when all we need is some realism. It's going to be very tough to stay up this season as play off winners have less time to prepare squads and are coming from a lower position than other promoted teams. We are in a mini league of probably 6 teams. We need to finish in the top 3 of them, and the start's been bad but a) we should have more points and b) we're playing some ok stuff.
Please don't get rid.
Quote from: Jim© on November 24, 2020, 09:21:53 AM
It's sad to see so many people willing to throw the towel in and literally start again.
It's interesting to watch Sheffield United as Wilder was heralded by many on here as a cracking manager. So, what's happened, has he turned useless overnight? Should he be sacked? Their start is worse than ours and they're coming off a season that was way better? Should Bilic go too? Does any manager in the bottom 3 anywhere need to get sacked?
There are two good examples of why i think we should hold onto Scott:
1) Southampton last season were 19th around this time, coming off a 9 (nine) 0 home defeat. Look at them now after retaining Hassenhutl.
2) Norwich finished bottom last season, fairly comprehensively. They retained their manager and are currently sitting top of the championship.
I get so fed up with the negativity when all we need is some realism. It's going to be very tough to stay up this season as play off winners have less time to prepare squads and are coming from a lower position than other promoted teams. We are in a mini league of probably 6 teams. We need to finish in the top 3 of them, and the start's been bad but a) we should have more points and b) we're playing some ok stuff.
Please don't get rid.
:plus one:
You can only please some of the fans some of the time but not all of the fans all of the time. I still say we will stay up just and Ben will question that! But I would rather be positive than negative. It's all about opinions on here which I respect.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 24, 2020, 06:04:15 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on November 24, 2020, 04:40:40 AM
Yes TRF, that's the problem Fulham face at the moment - getting targets to come to Fulham, when they have other offers from established Prem clubs, or even newly promoted club seen as having a greater prospect of actually staying up.
So, I think we've done well to get the players in we have, and who have definitely given us a lot better chance of staying in the Prem league.
The Championship team promoted with the Best Defense seems to be the one best positioned, for example, 19/20 Leeds, 18/19 Sheffield United, 17/18 Wolves, and 16/17 Newcastle. If we go down, Fulham has acquired some good defenders to be the best defense in the championship, and importantly they are young with long careers ahead of them.
I agree with both you Ray and you Rational Fan, the defenders if kept together, have the basis of being a strong and mean defence, although Aina worries me with his positional sense. But overall looking at the whole team/squad apart from a striker and a decent winger the jigsaw is almost complete. I spare a thought for the Captaincy as we lack a leader in that department. I hope Scott Parker stays and is allowed to build the team, and he needs the full support of the owners. Yes we had a good second half v Everton, the trouble is and I understand why is that people will remember from that game the buffoonery of the early opening goal and another missed penalty.
We have to get the basics right, and the starting 11 right and if necessary make subs earlier and be proactive not reactive, and a result at Leicester City back by a solid performance will do the team a power of good.
I agree with you Woolley and others. For me ,its not about Parker its about our club. I think hes the best chance weve got of creating stabillity and long term success.People underestimate the value of building when it comes to continuity. A new coach ,relegation anyway . a new philosophy and we are back to minus square 2 .
The players are behind Scott and we arent far off from being a decent team (with a hell of a lot of new players ). We have no "right "to stay in the PL it has to be earned. There are no safe hands,or risk free appointments. Scotts achievment is that the club,players and supporters (apart from a few entitled ,short term thinkers ) are together. That is no mean achievement in my book .
First of all let me say that I am in the Parker stays camp. The club have obviously invested in him and see him as a long term head coach. He seems to be well respected by the players and a good man manager. I still think he was an odd choice for the medium, long term due to his lack of experience and he would appear to be learning on the job. If he does become an excellent manager you can get a bigger club will take him from us, but that is the name of the game I guess.
One thing regarding our current squad which whilst not perfect and clearly put together very quickly in order to give us half a chance.. would Dyche, Billic or Wilder be getting more out of them ? Are their squads better than Fulham's ? My guess is that they would be doing better right now however in the long term I think we stay with Parker and that goes into next season what ever division we are in. That assumes he continues to improve as a coach and keeps the dressing room. Parker knows the Championship, he knows his squad, will know better than anyone where we can offload and where we need to recruit and most importantly stands the best chance of keeping our better players at the club.
I think we are likely to be relegated but have a chance to stay up, what we must do if we go down is to come back stronger, not have to re-build so much of the team because the quality is so far from that required. It's very difficult to keep the best players when relegated but that will be the challenge.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 24, 2020, 04:28:09 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 24, 2020, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 24, 2020, 12:53:28 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 24, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 23, 2020, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 23, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
The thing is I just don't see the point in sacking the manager if TK stays as DoF. It's like responding to a leaky pipe by continuously putting new towels around it.
the point is a new manager would try something different. we know we arent good enough under parker thats just a fact. one win is nine is shocking, absolutely shocking. how bad does it have to get
Out of the frying pan into the fire you reckon, that is not very bright.
As Statto has clearly stated, no point in sacking the manager if the real culprit stays as D of F.
Also as Crave mad has said, TK is the more useless and has left us with an inadequate unbalanced squad......again, yet you never mention him, he is the catalyst in all that is wrong.
The next six matches we really need a minimum of 10 out of 18 points to keep in touch with the rest of the herd. A big ask maybe, but a reasonable target all the same. If the owners son abandons Scott Parker in the January transfer market, then you need to go for his neck first before anyone else.
whats the point in mentioning Tony. He doesn't pick the tactics, formation or team. The squad isn't going to change anytime soon, so what can he do now other than get us an average/ to good manager. And the bit about the transfer market makes no sense as you blame Tony for the poor performances, so how will more of his players help Scott if he can't manage the players Tony has already given him. I actually think we have good enough players to stay up, but not good enough to play Parker ball and stay up. And let's be honest if we don't make a change soon, we will be cut well adrift for the 17th spot making good January acquisitions neigh on impossible.
To a certain extent a manager is only as good as the players he has at his disposal. It is a brand new defence which was conceived due to the owners sons scatter gun approach, with no consideration as usual for the type of character needed. Aina is already identified as not premier standard, too many players far too late brought in and not a striker amongst them, how incompetent can a so called D of F can get, and yet he was still signing defenders almost up to the last minute when it was bleeding obvious we needed another striker. Too little too late again and again, and once again some of these players were not fit and or injured, we have been here before, TK is a laughing stock amongst agents as well as supporters while he impersonates a D of F.
We tried to buy Matt Cash (RB), Bertrand Traoré (RW), and Ollie Watkins (CF) early in the window, but teams promoted through the playoff never get to sign players of their quality. Any Playoff promoted Club has to buy the players other premier league teams reject, and frankly, there is not much premier league quality left. Norwich's plan is the best to follow if we want to stay in the premier league.
If we wanted to follow Norwich's plan we shouldn't have gotten 6 players on short term loans: Areola, Lookman, Lemina, Aina, Andersen, Loftus-Cheek. All of them will be gone next season if we're relegated. Probably a couple more too. With our clueless recruitment we will have to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season if we're relegated. With TK in charge this probably means that the majority of our transfer business will be last minute panic deals and loans. Too little and too late seems to be his "plan".
I've said for years now that I dreaded the day when our squad would be 100% TK players. I think it's only Cairney left from the pre-TK era now? At least from our regular starters (although I seem to remember TK taking credit for signing Cairney too even though he was clearly a Rigg signing...).
I have no faith in the "yo-yo" plan. If we go down this season I don't think we will see Premier League football at the Cottage for a VERY long time.
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on November 24, 2020, 10:19:07 AM
If we wanted to follow Norwich's plan we shouldn't have gotten 6 players on short term loans: Areola, Lookman, Lemina, Aina, Andersen, Loftus-Cheek. All of them will be gone next season if we're relegated. Probably a couple more too. With our clueless recruitment we will have to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season if we're relegated. With TK in charge this probably means that the majority of our transfer business will be last minute panic deals and loans. Too little and too late seems to be his "plan".
I've said for years now that I dreaded the day when our squad would be 100% TK players. I think it's only Cairney left from the pre-TK era now? At least from our regular starters (although I seem to remember TK taking credit for signing Cairney too even though he was clearly a Rigg signing...).
I have no faith in the "yo-yo" plan. If we go down this season I don't think we will see Premier League football at the Cottage for a VERY long time.
Therein lies the issue- how does a club, who needs to re-establish themselves as a Premier team, attract the players to do so? Loans is the obvious one- I doubt Areola, Lookman, RLC, Andersen would have come here on a full contract as they'd not want relegation on their CV or chopping into their earnings potential. Easy route is to get them on loan with the ability at least to buy three that you mentioned: Areola, Aina and Lemina.
There's no yo-yo plan, that's entirely misquoting our slightly misguided Head of whatever he calls himself. Problem is, bouncing between the divisions makes forward planning a bugger.
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on November 24, 2020, 10:19:07 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 24, 2020, 04:28:09 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 24, 2020, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 24, 2020, 12:53:28 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on November 24, 2020, 12:20:16 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on November 23, 2020, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: Statto on November 23, 2020, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Craven Mad on November 23, 2020, 10:05:07 PM
I still don't see how people can defend Scott's player choices: starting Cav and dropping Zambo were two huge calls which evidently backfired. For all of our second half promise (in every game), he's not setting us up right and that's costing us goals early on.
Tony Khan is clearly the more useless of the pair, and has left us with an unbalanced and inadequate squad, but that doesn't mean that Scott is doing even close to good enough.
As a minimum, he needs to start getting it right from the start of games and also begin coaching the players on discipline and positioning - these things (along with penalty misses) are costing us points in every game.
The thing is I just don't see the point in sacking the manager if TK stays as DoF. It's like responding to a leaky pipe by continuously putting new towels around it.
the point is a new manager would try something different. we know we arent good enough under parker thats just a fact. one win is nine is shocking, absolutely shocking. how bad does it have to get
Out of the frying pan into the fire you reckon, that is not very bright.
As Statto has clearly stated, no point in sacking the manager if the real culprit stays as D of F.
Also as Crave mad has said, TK is the more useless and has left us with an inadequate unbalanced squad......again, yet you never mention him, he is the catalyst in all that is wrong.
The next six matches we really need a minimum of 10 out of 18 points to keep in touch with the rest of the herd. A big ask maybe, but a reasonable target all the same. If the owners son abandons Scott Parker in the January transfer market, then you need to go for his neck first before anyone else.
whats the point in mentioning Tony. He doesn't pick the tactics, formation or team. The squad isn't going to change anytime soon, so what can he do now other than get us an average/ to good manager. And the bit about the transfer market makes no sense as you blame Tony for the poor performances, so how will more of his players help Scott if he can't manage the players Tony has already given him. I actually think we have good enough players to stay up, but not good enough to play Parker ball and stay up. And let's be honest if we don't make a change soon, we will be cut well adrift for the 17th spot making good January acquisitions neigh on impossible.
To a certain extent a manager is only as good as the players he has at his disposal. It is a brand new defence which was conceived due to the owners sons scatter gun approach, with no consideration as usual for the type of character needed. Aina is already identified as not premier standard, too many players far too late brought in and not a striker amongst them, how incompetent can a so called D of F can get, and yet he was still signing defenders almost up to the last minute when it was bleeding obvious we needed another striker. Too little too late again and again, and once again some of these players were not fit and or injured, we have been here before, TK is a laughing stock amongst agents as well as supporters while he impersonates a D of F.
We tried to buy Matt Cash (RB), Bertrand Traoré (RW), and Ollie Watkins (CF) early in the window, but teams promoted through the playoff never get to sign players of their quality. Any Playoff promoted Club has to buy the players other premier league teams reject, and frankly, there is not much premier league quality left. Norwich's plan is the best to follow if we want to stay in the premier league.
If we wanted to follow Norwich's plan we shouldn't have gotten 6 players on short term loans: Areola, Lookman, Lemina, Aina, Andersen, Loftus-Cheek. All of them will be gone next season if we're relegated. Probably a couple more too. With our clueless recruitment we will have to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season if we're relegated. With TK in charge this probably means that the majority of our transfer business will be last minute panic deals and loans. Too little and too late seems to be his "plan".
I've said for years now that I dreaded the day when our squad would be 100% TK players. I think it's only Cairney left from the pre-TK era now? At least from our regular starters (although I seem to remember TK taking credit for signing Cairney too even though he was clearly a Rigg signing...).
I have no faith in the "yo-yo" plan. If we go down this season I don't think we will see Premier League football at the Cottage for a VERY long time.
I share your concerns, and the key has to be stability. I also agree with everyone's points, suggestions and comments on here. The grass is not always greener on the other side.
We have some real testing games coming up and we must play without fear, but at the same time we have to be mindful that grinding out results is no sin. If we have to park the Double Decker to get a result then do be it. But goals change games, and on this League scoring first does have a huge bearing on how the game will pan out.
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on November 24, 2020, 10:19:07 AM
If we wanted to follow Norwich's plan we shouldn't have gotten 6 players on short term loans: Areola, Lookman, Lemina, Aina, Andersen, Loftus-Cheek. All of them will be gone next season if we're relegated. Probably a couple more too. With our clueless recruitment we will have to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season if we're relegated. With TK in charge this probably means that the majority of our transfer business will be last minute panic deals and loans. Too little and too late seems to be his "plan".
I've said for years now that I dreaded the day when our squad would be 100% TK players. I think it's only Cairney left from the pre-TK era now? At least from our regular starters (although I seem to remember TK taking credit for signing Cairney too even though he was clearly a Rigg signing...).
I have no faith in the "yo-yo" plan. If we go down this season I don't think we will see Premier League football at the Cottage for a VERY long time.
There are two very good reasons why this is well thought out and argued. Only a club without confidence would employ a manager fit for any eventuality especially a demotion (it's a harsher word in the circumstances than relegation). Only a club without confidence would chase unrealistic signings and not have a fully prepared dossier of likely signings upon a season finishing fit for any eventuality e.g. loss of star players, contracts/loans ending, coaches leaving, managers seeking better things, owners getting restless etc. Is FFC a club wthout confidence because key people within it are not fit for purpose???
FWIIW I do believe SP would like to think he can succeed where others have failed because he will not want a sacking to follow his promotion success, and I will not write him off as a failure whatever the outcome of this season. There are much bigger issues that need dealing with a FFC and until they are dealt with the uneasiness and lack of confidence will continue. IMO.
I would keep Parker for the season even if we get relegated.We will have a better squad in the Championship should that happen from the last time we were there.We haven't spent all the Prem money and should again be able to add quality to the side.I think we can stay up this season but i am forever optimistic.Personally i think our recruitment this season has been decent and Tony Khan is learning and hope he continues going forward.
I really do like Parker as a person and you can tell he really wants to win but something just isn't working. Whether or not it's the tactics or the coaching team, I don't know, but why not try something different? Employ new coaches. If not, drop players who don't perform well. I.e Aina was terrible, two of their goals came from him being out of position and not marking anybody.
Re Loan players - fair point about them leaving and weakening the team. Clearly a couple of these may be loans with just a view to keeping us up, eg Areola and RLC, maybe Andersen and Lemina.
But we have also made some solid permanent signings: Tete, Tosin, Robinson, Reed, and Kongolo - all of them could be pretty awesome players for the Championship, or we recoup substantial sums to re-invest. And of the rest of the squad, Rodak - excellent Championship keeper, probably good enough for Premier League as well. In my book Cairney and Anguissa are definitely of Premier League quality, Mitro - yes (even if I wish he had a bit more pace) and BDR - yes, especially if he can finish chances a bit more regularly, Caveleiro maybe borderline, Kamara - impact sub in Premier ? probably ok in Championship. So yes, we could lose some good players, but as it stands the rest are very good by Championship standard even if as a team we are struggling in the Premier. But I think things will get better and I'd stick with Parker now.
Quote from: Whitesideup on November 24, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
Re Loan players - fair point about them leaving and weakening the team. Clearly a couple of these may be loans with just a view to keeping us up, eg Areola and RLC, maybe Andersen and Lemina.
But we have also made some solid permanent signings: Tete, Tosin, Robinson, Reed, and Kongolo - all of them could be pretty awesome players for the Championship, or we recoup substantial sums to re-invest. And of the rest of the squad, Rodak - excellent Championship keeper, probably good enough for Premier League as well. In my book Cairney and Anguissa are definitely of Premier League quality, Mitro - yes (even if I wish he had a bit more pace) and BDR - yes, especially if he can finish chances a bit more regularly, Caveleiro maybe borderline, Kamara - impact sub in Premier ? probably ok in Championship. So yes, we could lose some good players, but as it stands the rest are very good by Championship standard even if as a team we are struggling in the Premier. But I think things will get better and I'd stick with Parker now.
I agree with a lot of this.
The odds dont lie, we are likely to go down but have a decent chance (but less than 50%) of staying up. If we do go down, i think we coudl have a very strong team to challange for promotion straight away. I actually think we woull have an almost complete starting 11 but we would probably need a few new players. Glass half full!
Mitro
Cav Cairney Reid
Onomah Reed
Robinson Kongolo Ado Tete
Rodak
Bryan, Odoi, MLM, Kamara, Kebano
Quote from: We Are Premier League on November 24, 2020, 04:58:02 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on November 24, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
Re Loan players - fair point about them leaving and weakening the team. Clearly a couple of these may be loans with just a view to keeping us up, eg Areola and RLC, maybe Andersen and Lemina.
But we have also made some solid permanent signings: Tete, Tosin, Robinson, Reed, and Kongolo - all of them could be pretty awesome players for the Championship, or we recoup substantial sums to re-invest. And of the rest of the squad, Rodak - excellent Championship keeper, probably good enough for Premier League as well. In my book Cairney and Anguissa are definitely of Premier League quality, Mitro - yes (even if I wish he had a bit more pace) and BDR - yes, especially if he can finish chances a bit more regularly, Caveleiro maybe borderline, Kamara - impact sub in Premier ? probably ok in Championship. So yes, we could lose some good players, but as it stands the rest are very good by Championship standard even if as a team we are struggling in the Premier. But I think things will get better and I'd stick with Parker now.
I agree with a lot of this.
The odds dont lie, we are likely to go down but have a decent chance (but less than 50%) of staying up. If we do go down, i think we coudl have a very strong team to challange for promotion straight away. I actually think we woull have an almost complete starting 11 but we would probably need a few new players. Glass half full!
Mitro
Cav Cairney Reid
Onomah Reed
Robinson Kongolo Ado Tete
Rodak
Bryan, Odoi, MLM, Kamara, Kebano
yes that a decent championship.
I'm afraid my computer skills won't allow sadly but it would be interesting to see on a pie chart what we all think re Parker.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on November 24, 2020, 05:16:48 PM
I'm afraid my computer skills won't allow sadly but it would be interesting to see on a pie chart what we all think re Parker.
Chicken and leek for me
Quote from: We Are Premier League on November 24, 2020, 04:58:02 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on November 24, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
Re Loan players - fair point about them leaving and weakening the team. Clearly a couple of these may be loans with just a view to keeping us up, eg Areola and RLC, maybe Andersen and Lemina.
But we have also made some solid permanent signings: Tete, Tosin, Robinson, Reed, and Kongolo - all of them could be pretty awesome players for the Championship, or we recoup substantial sums to re-invest. And of the rest of the squad, Rodak - excellent Championship keeper, probably good enough for Premier League as well. In my book Cairney and Anguissa are definitely of Premier League quality, Mitro - yes (even if I wish he had a bit more pace) and BDR - yes, especially if he can finish chances a bit more regularly, Caveleiro maybe borderline, Kamara - impact sub in Premier ? probably ok in Championship. So yes, we could lose some good players, but as it stands the rest are very good by Championship standard even if as a team we are struggling in the Premier. But I think things will get better and I'd stick with Parker now.
I agree with a lot of this.
The odds dont lie, we are likely to go down but have a decent chance (but less than 50%) of staying up. If we do go down, i think we coudl have a very strong team to challange for promotion straight away. I actually think we woull have an almost complete starting 11 but we would probably need a few new players. Glass half full!
Mitro
Cav Cairney Reid
Onomah Reed
Robinson Kongolo Ado Tete
Rodak
Bryan, Odoi, MLM, Kamara, Kebano
I think Tete would want away, even if it's just a seasons loan. Purely because he's been part of the Dutch squad (when fit).
Quote from: Penfold on November 24, 2020, 06:03:36 PM
Quote from: We Are Premier League on November 24, 2020, 04:58:02 PM
Quote from: Whitesideup on November 24, 2020, 12:26:18 PM
Re Loan players - fair point about them leaving and weakening the team. Clearly a couple of these may be loans with just a view to keeping us up, eg Areola and RLC, maybe Andersen and Lemina.
But we have also made some solid permanent signings: Tete, Tosin, Robinson, Reed, and Kongolo - all of them could be pretty awesome players for the Championship, or we recoup substantial sums to re-invest. And of the rest of the squad, Rodak - excellent Championship keeper, probably good enough for Premier League as well. In my book Cairney and Anguissa are definitely of Premier League quality, Mitro - yes (even if I wish he had a bit more pace) and BDR - yes, especially if he can finish chances a bit more regularly, Caveleiro maybe borderline, Kamara - impact sub in Premier ? probably ok in Championship. So yes, we could lose some good players, but as it stands the rest are very good by Championship standard even if as a team we are struggling in the Premier. But I think things will get better and I'd stick with Parker now.
I agree with a lot of this.
The odds dont lie, we are likely to go down but have a decent chance (but less than 50%) of staying up. If we do go down, i think we coudl have a very strong team to challange for promotion straight away. I actually think we woull have an almost complete starting 11 but we would probably need a few new players. Glass half full!
Mitro
Cav Cairney Reid
Onomah Reed
Robinson Kongolo Ado Tete
Rodak
Bryan, Odoi, MLM, Kamara, Kebano
I think Tete would want away, even if it's just a seasons loan. Purely because he's been part of the Dutch squad (when fit).
think we would lose robinson too
Parker 9 games 4 points,
Joka. 9 games 4 points,
Joka lost the next 4 and was booted out, tough 4 for Parker coming up as well.
Just saying as lots of Parker support but a lot of the same people were screaming for joka to go.
Funny old game innit.
My memory is that there was general support for Joka, more than there is for Parker.
Joka had built a lot of goodwill after the way we played to get promotion, with that unbeaten run. whereas Parker has always seemed to have had a lot of critics with 'Parkerball', and many not thinking we'd go up - most seemed to think Brentford would thrash us.
But maybe my memory is wrong.
The game away to Huddersfield was crucial for joka, where we lost 0-1, and didn't turn up, but i think fans were still mostly wanting Joka to stay, and up at Liverpool there were good signs, that many thought showed we'd turned the corner.
When Joka was sacked, my memory is that many weren't happy about it.
Concur with Ray ,but there is a vital difference for me this time. Parker is nowhere near as charasmatic as Jokanovic,nor has his team played to anywhere near the style and attraction of Slavisa`s side. But this time I believe we will become more solid,harder to beat we have a better squad, and that we are not far off from being a proper team with good football values in place. There are lots of negatives but I believe we will get there. To sack parker now would be madness,not because hes the best coach around ,but because it would be harmful to the club and underline that we lack a longterm strategy and are simply winging it from one situation to another. As long as the team shows togetherness ,fight and signs of devlopment then thats enough for me to suggest he has to be kept in charge.
If we can keep in touch and add to our attack in january I think we will stay up.
Quote from: colinwhite on November 24, 2020, 08:47:18 PM
Concur with Ray ,but there is a vital difference for me this time. Parker is nowhere near as charasmatic as Jokanovic,nor has his team played to anywhere near the style and attraction of Slavisa`s side. But this time I believe we will become more solid,harder to beat we have a better squad, and that we are not far off from being a proper team with good football values in place. There are lots of negatives but I believe we will get there. To sack parker now would be madness,not because hes the best coach around ,but because it would be harmful to the club and underline that we lack a longterm strategy and are simply winging it from one situation to another. As long as the team shows togetherness ,fight and signs of devlopment then thats enough for me to suggest he has to be kept in charge.
If we can keep in touch and add to our attack in january I think we will stay up.
+1 - great post
Parker has improved massively.
All the goals conceded are from personal errors (mostly by defenders) and nothing to do with manager. I doubt he told BDR to pass the ball to Richarlison in dangerous area in the 1st minute of the game just to wake everyone up
Quote from: colinwhite on November 24, 2020, 08:47:18 PM
Concur with Ray ,but there is a vital difference for me this time. Parker is nowhere near as charasmatic as Jokanovic,nor has his team played to anywhere near the style and attraction of Slavisa`s side. But this time I believe we will become more solid,harder to beat we have a better squad, and that we are not far off from being a proper team with good football values in place. There are lots of negatives but I believe we will get there. To sack parker now would be madness,not because hes the best coach around ,but because it would be harmful to the club and underline that we lack a longterm strategy and are simply winging it from one situation to another. As long as the team shows togetherness ,fight and signs of devlopment then thats enough for me to suggest he has to be kept in charge.
If we can keep in touch and add to our attack in january I think we will stay up.
We just need that one little bit of luck and the season could well turn round
Quote from: sunburywhite on November 24, 2020, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on November 24, 2020, 08:47:18 PM
Concur with Ray ,but there is a vital difference for me this time. Parker is nowhere near as charasmatic as Jokanovic,nor has his team played to anywhere near the style and attraction of Slavisa`s side. But this time I believe we will become more solid,harder to beat we have a better squad, and that we are not far off from being a proper team with good football values in place. There are lots of negatives but I believe we will get there. To sack parker now would be madness,not because hes the best coach around ,but because it would be harmful to the club and underline that we lack a longterm strategy and are simply winging it from one situation to another. As long as the team shows togetherness ,fight and signs of devlopment then thats enough for me to suggest he has to be kept in charge.
If we can keep in touch and add to our attack in january I think we will stay up.
We just need that one little bit of luck and the season could well turn round
and if my aunty had a pair of nuts she'd be my uncle
Quote from: blingo on November 24, 2020, 09:36:08 PM
Quote from: sunburywhite on November 24, 2020, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on November 24, 2020, 08:47:18 PM
Concur with Ray ,but there is a vital difference for me this time. Parker is nowhere near as charasmatic as Jokanovic,nor has his team played to anywhere near the style and attraction of Slavisa`s side. But this time I believe we will become more solid,harder to beat we have a better squad, and that we are not far off from being a proper team with good football values in place. There are lots of negatives but I believe we will get there. To sack parker now would be madness,not because hes the best coach around ,but because it would be harmful to the club and underline that we lack a longterm strategy and are simply winging it from one situation to another. As long as the team shows togetherness ,fight and signs of devlopment then thats enough for me to suggest he has to be kept in charge.
If we can keep in touch and add to our attack in january I think we will stay up.
We just need that one little bit of luck and the season could well turn round
and if my aunty had a pair of nuts she'd be my uncle
These days that is quite possible
Quote from: sunburywhite on November 24, 2020, 09:38:08 PM
Quote from: blingo on November 24, 2020, 09:36:08 PM
Quote from: sunburywhite on November 24, 2020, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on November 24, 2020, 08:47:18 PM
Concur with Ray ,but there is a vital difference for me this time. Parker is nowhere near as charasmatic as Jokanovic,nor has his team played to anywhere near the style and attraction of Slavisa`s side. But this time I believe we will become more solid,harder to beat we have a better squad, and that we are not far off from being a proper team with good football values in place. There are lots of negatives but I believe we will get there. To sack parker now would be madness,not because hes the best coach around ,but because it would be harmful to the club and underline that we lack a longterm strategy and are simply winging it from one situation to another. As long as the team shows togetherness ,fight and signs of devlopment then thats enough for me to suggest he has to be kept in charge.
If we can keep in touch and add to our attack in january I think we will stay up.
We just need that one little bit of luck and the season could well turn round
and if my aunty had a pair of nuts she'd be my uncle
These days that is quite possible
its always been possible, Hermaphrodites have existed since the dawn of man, they would still be your aunty though
Quote from: itombomb on November 22, 2020, 04:47:09 PM
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on November 22, 2020, 04:32:03 PM
A slightly different view but I see Norwich are riding high in the Championship which makes the point that maybe consistency is something to factor in! Should we go down we will have a better squad and SP would get us up imo. I still think we can survive.
All the teams that went down this year largely kept their squads together (all only lost a couple of starters). If we go down most of our team will leave - Areola, Anderssen, Aina, Lemina, RLC and Lookman will all go back to their parent clubs, and we'll probably lose a couple of others.
Looks like Norwich, Bournemouth and Watford may come back up and Fulham, WBA and one other will go back down.
So it kinda looks like this six, too good for Championship and not bloody good enough for Premier League!
These six need to fight t out in a different league? Championship plus?????
Don't want Fulham to come up again until we have a right and proper Premiership team at the ready.
Quote from: somersetwhite on November 22, 2020, 12:58:27 PM
I was right about last year and Parker but swallowed my words because he got us promoted, but he has to go. A quarter way into the season and 4 points.
If there is a rescue plan, start it now!!!!
So by this logic West Brom and Sheffield Utd should sack their managers as well ? Perhaps we should have a swap round.
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on November 24, 2020, 10:19:07 AM
If we wanted to follow Norwich's plan we shouldn't have gotten 6 players on short term loans: Areola, Lookman, Lemina, Aina, Andersen, Loftus-Cheek. All of them will be gone next season if we're relegated. Probably a couple more too. With our clueless recruitment we will have to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season if we're relegated. With TK in charge this probably means that the majority of our transfer business will be last minute panic deals and loans. Too little and too late seems to be his "plan".
I've said for years now that I dreaded the day when our squad would be 100% TK players. I think it's only Cairney left from the pre-TK era now? At least from our regular starters (although I seem to remember TK taking credit for signing Cairney too even though he was clearly a Rigg signing...).
I have no faith in the "yo-yo" plan. If we go down this season I don't think we will see Premier League football at the Cottage for a VERY long time.
If when the winter transfer window opens we spend MASSIVELY BIG (e.g. £70m-120m) and Parker gets the new players to be cohesive (which is very optimistic), then we could go into the second half of the season being favourites in eight games [WBA-A, SHU-H, BUR-H, BHA-A, LEE-H, NEW-H, WOL-H and WHU-H], but if we win 60% of those games that's only 15 points and we need a dozen more.
No amount of spending may allow us to get many points from Mid-Table Away Games (at EVE, CRY, AVL, and SOU) or Top of the Table Home Games (against the Big Six and Leicester), and we may need 10-15 points from these games (which is not achievable).
The "Yo-Yo Plan" requires winning 60% of games in the Championship, which is an achievable goal although still very hard especially as we need to build a solid defense in the championship that can stay up in the premier league the following season.
The "Yo-Yo Plan" is so fantastic that even a below-average DOF and a below-average coach can execute correctly, the key is bringing players in six months earlier than we currently have been doing, so we can go into the Championship as the best team from the first game.
Frankly, any other plan requires either an above-average DOF or a brilliant coach, we have neither but we must not sack them because our owners will probably replace below-average people with worse people (as our main owner knows much less than TK).
Quote from: Fernhurst on November 24, 2020, 10:44:00 PM
Don't want Fulham to come up again until we have a right and proper Premiership team at the ready.
why? It still makes financial sense
Quote from: St Eve on November 25, 2020, 02:53:07 AM
Quote from: Fernhurst on November 24, 2020, 10:44:00 PM
Don't want Fulham to come up again until we have a right and proper Premiership team at the ready.
why? It still makes financial sense
We have a right and proper Premiership team at the ready, we just need time for them to gel.
This season, time is something we don't have, but if we plan we could keep these players next season.
Having watched the Fulham games this season and restrained from swearing at the monitor, have decided to take the plunge and join. So thank you Friends of Fulham: here's my rant
Lemina - wtf
Sorry to Areola as our centre backs have gone AWOL (again!?)
SP looked visibly upset post-match Everton
Mitro is finished
There are plenty of positives about the team but to be honest we look pretty much screwed
(Unless a fresh breeze blows though the January window - as if...) 049:gif
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 25, 2020, 01:56:22 AM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on November 24, 2020, 10:19:07 AM
If we wanted to follow Norwich's plan we shouldn't have gotten 6 players on short term loans: Areola, Lookman, Lemina, Aina, Andersen, Loftus-Cheek. All of them will be gone next season if we're relegated. Probably a couple more too. With our clueless recruitment we will have to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season if we're relegated. With TK in charge this probably means that the majority of our transfer business will be last minute panic deals and loans. Too little and too late seems to be his "plan".
I've said for years now that I dreaded the day when our squad would be 100% TK players. I think it's only Cairney left from the pre-TK era now? At least from our regular starters (although I seem to remember TK taking credit for signing Cairney too even though he was clearly a Rigg signing...).
I have no faith in the "yo-yo" plan. If we go down this season I don't think we will see Premier League football at the Cottage for a VERY long time.
If when the winter transfer window opens we spend MASSIVELY BIG (e.g. £70m-120m) and Parker gets the new players to be cohesive (which is very optimistic), then we could go into the second half of the season being favourites in eight games [WBA-A, SHU-H, BUR-H, BHA-A, LEE-H, NEW-H, WOL-H and WHU-H], but if we win 60% of those games that's only 15 points and we need a dozen more.
No amount of spending may allow us to get many points from Mid-Table Away Games (at EVE, CRY, AVL, and SOU) or Top of the Table Home Games (against the Big Six and Leicester), and we may need 10-15 points from these games (which is not achievable).
The "Yo-Yo Plan" requires winning 60% of games in the Championship, which is an achievable goal although still very hard especially as we need to build a solid defense in the championship that can stay up in the premier league the following season.
The "Yo-Yo Plan" is so fantastic that even a below-average DOF and a below-average coach can execute correctly, the key is bringing players in six months earlier than we currently have been doing, so we can go into the Championship as the best team from the first game.
Frankly, any other plan requires either an above-average DOF or a brilliant coach, we have neither but we must not sack them because our owners will probably replace below-average people with worse people (as our main owner knows much less than TK).
So what you're saying is that we're already relegated and it was always unavoidable? If that's the case, what is the benefit of all the loans instead of building a Championship squad for next season? I'm genuinely interested because I fail to see any kind of plan or long term thinking in our recruitment. We're not investing enough (or clever enough) to stay in the Premier League and we rely too much on short term solutions to build a Championship squad for next season. It seems to me that we've ended up with a sort of "worst of both worlds" scenario: A squad that is nowhere near strong enough for the PL but with too many players that will leave at the end of the season, forcing us to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season. In other words: No lessons learned from previous mistakes.
I honestly can't see any kind of sensible strategy or long term planning here AT ALL. Everything seems very haphazard and stinks of emergency panic deals because our recruitment team failed to get their initial targets.
Some of the loan deals can be made permanent should we stay up.Makes financial sense to me.
Re. Loans...
TK made a prat of himself as usual by giving the 'big cheese' talk in the Sessegnon interview and saying we weren't going to develop other clubs' players... then making several signings where we'll be doing just that
However, putting that aspect of it to one side, I've no problem with the deals themselves
Any club going up, down or back up again is going to have a turnover of 5 or 6 first team players each time, that's unavoidable, and it makes sense therefore to utilise the flexibility of the loan market to the fullest possible
Actually the fact we got long-term options into half the loan deals is very respectable IMO
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on November 25, 2020, 06:55:28 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on November 25, 2020, 01:56:22 AM
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on November 24, 2020, 10:19:07 AM
If we wanted to follow Norwich's plan we shouldn't have gotten 6 players on short term loans: Areola, Lookman, Lemina, Aina, Andersen, Loftus-Cheek. All of them will be gone next season if we're relegated. Probably a couple more too. With our clueless recruitment we will have to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season if we're relegated. With TK in charge this probably means that the majority of our transfer business will be last minute panic deals and loans. Too little and too late seems to be his "plan".
I've said for years now that I dreaded the day when our squad would be 100% TK players. I think it's only Cairney left from the pre-TK era now? At least from our regular starters (although I seem to remember TK taking credit for signing Cairney too even though he was clearly a Rigg signing...).
I have no faith in the "yo-yo" plan. If we go down this season I don't think we will see Premier League football at the Cottage for a VERY long time.
If when the winter transfer window opens we spend MASSIVELY BIG (e.g. £70m-120m) and Parker gets the new players to be cohesive (which is very optimistic), then we could go into the second half of the season being favourites in eight games [WBA-A, SHU-H, BUR-H, BHA-A, LEE-H, NEW-H, WOL-H and WHU-H], but if we win 60% of those games that's only 15 points and we need a dozen more.
No amount of spending may allow us to get many points from Mid-Table Away Games (at EVE, CRY, AVL, and SOU) or Top of the Table Home Games (against the Big Six and Leicester), and we may need 10-15 points from these games (which is not achievable).
The "Yo-Yo Plan" requires winning 60% of games in the Championship, which is an achievable goal although still very hard especially as we need to build a solid defense in the championship that can stay up in the premier league the following season.
The "Yo-Yo Plan" is so fantastic that even a below-average DOF and a below-average coach can execute correctly, the key is bringing players in six months earlier than we currently have been doing, so we can go into the Championship as the best team from the first game.
Frankly, any other plan requires either an above-average DOF or a brilliant coach, we have neither but we must not sack them because our owners will probably replace below-average people with worse people (as our main owner knows much less than TK).
So what you're saying is that we're already relegated and it was always unavoidable? If that's the case, what is the benefit of all the loans instead of building a Championship squad for next season? I'm genuinely interested because I fail to see any kind of plan or long term thinking in our recruitment. We're not investing enough (or clever enough) to stay in the Premier League and we rely too much on short term solutions to build a Championship squad for next season. It seems to me that we've ended up with a sort of "worst of both worlds" scenario: A squad that is nowhere near strong enough for the PL but with too many players that will leave at the end of the season, forcing us to rebuild the squad AGAIN next season. In other words: No lessons learned from previous mistakes.
I honestly can't see any kind of sensible strategy or long term planning here AT ALL. Everything seems very haphazard and stinks of emergency panic deals because our recruitment team failed to get their initial targets.
I thought the overall strategy was not that hard to see? We can't spend the amount of money needed to sign high quality PL players permanently (and many wouldn't want to come here), so we took those on loan instead to at least give us a fighting chance to stay up (but wouldn't have to take on the wages next year if we are relegated). We also managed to acquire several cheaper young players that are likely to stay with us if we do get relegated. Decent enough strategy, and some good players and quality prospects acquired without putting us in FFP trouble. Other than the timing of transfers I don't really see any need to criticize the strategy, and I don't understand how someone cannot see that there is indeed long term planning.
But that is just my opinion.
Quote from: 3 Cherries on November 25, 2020, 06:28:30 AM
Having watched the Fulham games this season and restrained from swearing at the monitor, have decided to take the plunge and join. So thank you Friends of Fulham: here's my rant
Lemina - wtf
Sorry to Areola as our centre backs have gone AWOL (again!?)
SP looked visibly upset post-match Everton
Mitro is finished
There are plenty of positives about the team but to be honest we look pretty much screwed
(Unless a fresh breeze blows though the January window - as if...) 049:gif
Interesting post
It was the first time I had seen 90 minutes of Fulham this season
A frantic, frenetic pace to start with & Everton straight out of the blocks whilst we looked fast asleep.
A dreadful first touch by BDR to gift them the first goal in 42 seconds!
An improvement second half following the substitutions who did much better
No leader for us on the pitch, no point in everyone hand on hip looking @ the ground. No point in players quoting on the OFFAL that they will respond, try harder blah blah & continue to fail to deliver. Find a leader!
Cav (what a clown) Lemina & Aina all hopeless, no contribution whatso ever. I couldn't believe how poor they were.
Who sanctioned these signings & why? Get rid of them & replace in the January window.
Agreed about Mitro. What has happened to the guy? He looked shattered, disinterested, no motivation. He has lost the plot.
Tete to return so some hope exists.
Play Bryan somewhere to freshen it up. He is intelligent, knows where the goal is, can shoot & cross, play him!
We must believe we can rescue the situation but more fresh blood required & time is running out.
Little point in dumping Parker, who else with any appropriate skills & experience would want to join us in this scenario?
Continued mistakes of selection, tactics etc with some signs of improvement that must be corrected so we start a match the right way.
We been here before suggest Scotty reads a book or two by Fergie & Clough, gets fired up & let's the players know what they are to do.
No more pretty kind stuff, throw a teapot or cup, whack a few head together & play as a team, one for all & all for one!
Rant over, go to Leicester & finish them guys!
