Friends of Fulham

Loan, option to buy to Napoli, said Di Marzio
Doing medical today
https://mobile.twitter.com/DiMarzio/status/1432237007405649924

https://mobile.twitter.com/DiMarzio/status/1432236369783386112

Does that mean Grimes is on his way to Craven Cottage

Loan and 10m option to buy doesn't sound like a super deal for us...a bit underwhelming.

Probably shouldn't have knocked back that reported 24 million from Villarreal. Absolute garbage deal from our perspective

Rumours rumours and rumours. We don't know and probably never will know the financial details.

Quote from: blingo on August 30, 2021, 11:07:28 AM
Rumours rumours and rumours. We don't know and probably never will know the financial details.

Too true. Won't stop folk reporting stuff as if it were fact, though.
Such is the way of the World. Continue to report garbage and it eventually becomes gold.

Sorry to see Anguissa depart.
A great disappointment to me as a player. Promised much: delivered little.
An imposing figure with flashes of great skill...but not enough to make any great impact.
I wondered if he lacks confidence.
Has become, of late, a marginal player so his departure would make sense.

Quote from: blingo on August 30, 2021, 11:07:28 AM
Rumours rumours and rumours. We don't know and probably never will know the financial details.

We will know the financial details in amount 20 months time, we have all the records before 30th June 2020 signed by the auditor and given to the UK Government. Of course, no one cares about last season.

Quote from: We Are Premier League on August 30, 2021, 10:47:40 AM
Loan and 10m option to buy doesn't sound like a super deal for us...a bit underwhelming.

To the suggested 10m you can add this season's loan fee plus the cost of his wages for the next year. All adds up to a lot of money

If they're paying his £60k/week salary, plus we get a couple of quid.....not a bad deal......shame it's never worked out for him here

Didn´t really want him to go. The figures quoted seem rather low. How much will we have to spend on replacing him with a player with his potential. Don´t think Grimes is in the same class if he should come to us.

So, that leaves us with Onamah, Reed, Seri Carvalho and Cairney with the dodgy knee for the three critical midfield spots. Room for one more as cover, perhaps a late buy tomorrow.

Quote from: filham on August 30, 2021, 12:34:28 PM
So, that leaves us with Onamah, Reed, Seri Carvalho and Cairney with the dodgy knee for the three critical midfield spots. Room for one more as cover, perhaps a late buy tomorrow.

William Carvalho or Grimes wouldn´t want to come just as cover.

Quote from: grandad on August 30, 2021, 12:44:21 PM

Quote from: filham on August 30, 2021, 12:34:28 PM
So, that leaves us with Onamah, Reed, Seri Carvalho and Cairney with the dodgy knee for the three critical midfield spots. Room for one more as cover, perhaps a late buy tomorrow.

William Carvalho or Grimes wouldn´t want to come just as cover.

Both I could see likely starting over Josh despite his fairly good form. Carvalho would be incredible if we manage it.

I can't say that I'm not disappointed but it's what's necessary to meet FFP and otherwise enhance the team, then so be it. Perhaps it opens the door for Carvalho II if what we've read is true.

Quote from: MartyFFC on August 30, 2021, 11:06:11 AM
Probably shouldn't have knocked back that reported 24 million from Villarreal. Absolute garbage deal from our perspective

I think Fulham set-up up 24 million as the option to buy price to following the loan - but Villarreal were never going to pay it:

https://www.football-espana.net/2020/08/13/villarreal-want-to-keep-andre-frank-zambo-anguissa-for-2020-21-campaign

There are plenty of unknowns. Even if described as an option go buy it could effectively become an obligation if certain highly likely criteria are met, eg him playing 15 games. If we didn't want a loan then quite possibly we'll have insisted on a chunky loan fee, balanced out by a lower purchase price. Etc etc

Ridiculous transaction!!!!!! Sell him by all means but not a loan deal, how does that help us this season to replace him? Presumably that´s the end of business in this transfer window unless we decide to lend out a few more players. Not happy!

Sky saying deal is 17.3 mill

Quote from: bobby01 on August 30, 2021, 01:53:55 PM
Sky saying deal is 17.3 mill

There must be a pretty good loan fee if it's only an option to buy

Unless the option to buy is basically a guarantee, I still don't see why we've loaned him again and not sold. FFP just can't be a concern as this deal doesn't do anything really to help in that respect.

I expect Grimes or William Carvalho plus a RB (probably the one from Villa) in before tomorrow is over.

Sad to see Anguissa go, fortunately he wasn't really a big part of our good form up to this point, so shouldn't have a detrimental effect on the team

TBH I'm glad to see anyone go that doesn't want to pull the shirt on, no matter what division we are in. Bet he never said no to even one championship pay cheque. He never did brilliantly here so bye bye don't come back.

Quote from: Danitar on August 30, 2021, 01:59:54 PM

Quote from: bobby01 on August 30, 2021, 01:53:55 PM
Sky saying deal is 17.3 mill

There must be a pretty good loan fee if it's only an option to buy

Doesn't break down the fee and option so I don't know

Quote from: Danitar on August 30, 2021, 01:59:54 PM

Quote from: bobby01 on August 30, 2021, 01:53:55 PM
Sky saying deal is 17.3 mill

There must be a pretty good loan fee if it's only an option to buy

If the club loan to buy FZA, could be a few things at play.
1) Club is in a better condition FFP wise than we suspected. I think the club cobbled together more profit from the AK, MLM, and StefJo deals than expected. Knock off Cyrus's salary and potentially 1 or 2 more, Knock? Fabri? and the club feel they can wait another season to cash in on FZA if necessary.

2) Club are flat out going for it FFP wise with the pandemic still going. Bit of a gamble, but with the club's start would be worth doing if automatic promotion is in the cards. They can also back it up with arguments about the pandemic if you ask me. Financial uncertainty, marked reduced global prices, etc, etc.

Quote from: filham on August 30, 2021, 12:34:28 PM
So, that leaves us with Onamah, Reed, Seri Carvalho and Cairney with the dodgy knee for the three critical midfield spots. Room for one more as cover, perhaps a late buy tomorrow.

Yeah...I don't think anyone we bring in within the next 48 hours plans to do anything other than be one of our starting 11.   I mean, why is Grimes coming if he doesn't plan to start?

Come to think of it...why is Grimes coming?

He's immediately behind Fabio, Onomah and Seri on our midfield depth chart (as he should be).

A player like Nathaniel Chalobah, who could actually challenge Onomah for a starting spot...I could understand.   Matt Grimes isn't better than Seri, or IMO Harrison Reed.

Quote from: davew on August 30, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
Ridiculous transaction!!!!!! Sell him by all means but not a loan deal, how does that help us this season to replace him? Presumably that´s the end of business in this transfer window unless we decide to lend out a few more players. Not happy!

Nothing new there then 😂😂

Quote from: davew on August 30, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
Ridiculous transaction!!!!!! Sell him by all means but not a loan deal, how does that help us this season to replace him? Presumably that´s the end of business in this transfer window unless we decide to lend out a few more players. Not happy!

In other news, water is wet

Quote from: Deeping_white on August 30, 2021, 02:54:28 PM

Quote from: davew on August 30, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
Ridiculous transaction!!!!!! Sell him by all means but not a loan deal, how does that help us this season to replace him? Presumably that´s the end of business in this transfer window unless we decide to lend out a few more players. Not happy!

In other news, water is wet

In other additional news, people who have no inside knowledge of the deal jump to rash conclusions and water is still wet.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 30, 2021, 02:19:25 PM

Quote from: filham on August 30, 2021, 12:34:28 PM
So, that leaves us with Onamah, Reed, Seri Carvalho and Cairney with the dodgy knee for the three critical midfield spots. Room for one more as cover, perhaps a late buy tomorrow.

Yeah...I don't think anyone we bring in within the next 48 hours plans to do anything other than be one of our starting 11.   I mean, why is Grimes coming if he doesn't plan to start?

Come to think of it...why is Grimes coming?

He's immediately behind Fabio, Onomah and Seri on our midfield depth chart (as he should be).

A player like Nathaniel Chalobah, who could actually challenge Onomah for a starting spot...I could understand.   Matt Grimes isn't better than Seri, or IMO Harrison Reed.

I have to say that is spot on from what I know of him, but that also is predicated on that I don't know much about Grimes. Based on that very limited knowledge, he does not strike me as any upgrade on Seri or Harrison, unless for Harrison because of his injury prone nature.

Quote from: Statto on August 30, 2021, 01:36:41 PM
There are plenty of unknowns. Even if described as an option go buy it could effectively become an obligation if certain highly likely criteria are met, eg him playing 15 games. If we didn't want a loan then quite possibly we'll have insisted on a chunky loan fee, balanced out by a lower purchase price. Etc etc

A reasonable possibility that I had not originally considered.

He can bugger off, if he's sat there and watched the first few games and not thought I'm going to be back in the prem next year he can do one never been that impressed seems to run into dead ends and couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo   

Quote from: BarryP on August 30, 2021, 03:08:42 PM

Quote from: Deeping_white on August 30, 2021, 02:54:28 PM

Quote from: davew on August 30, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
Ridiculous transaction!!!!!! Sell him by all means but not a loan deal, how does that help us this season to replace him? Presumably that´s the end of business in this transfer window unless we decide to lend out a few more players. Not happy!

In other news, water is wet

In other additional news, people who have no inside knowledge of the deal jump to rash conclusions and water is still wet.

I was making a point of Dave being negative as per usual rather than the transfer itself, because nobody but the club actually know the finer details

Quote from: Deeping_white on August 30, 2021, 03:24:17 PM

Quote from: BarryP on August 30, 2021, 03:08:42 PM

Quote from: Deeping_white on August 30, 2021, 02:54:28 PM

Quote from: davew on August 30, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
Ridiculous transaction!!!!!! Sell him by all means but not a loan deal, how does that help us this season to replace him? Presumably that´s the end of business in this transfer window unless we decide to lend out a few more players. Not happy!

In other news, water is wet

In other additional news, people who have no inside knowledge of the deal jump to rash conclusions and water is still wet.

I was making a point of Dave being negative as per usual rather than the transfer itself, because nobody but the club actually know the finer details

0001.jpeg

I'm done with Anguissa.


But Matt Grimes is not a replacement.   We need better.

Would've been better off giving 28 million quid to UNICEF for all this fella's contributed

Quote from: cmg on August 30, 2021, 11:20:30 AM
Sorry to see Anguissa depart.
A great disappointment to me as a player. Promised much: delivered little.
An imposing figure with flashes of great skill...but not enough to make any great impact.
I wondered if he lacks confidence.
Has become, of late, a marginal player so his departure would make sense.

0001.jpeg

Quote from: BarryP on August 30, 2021, 03:36:52 PM

Quote from: Deeping_white on August 30, 2021, 03:24:17 PM

Quote from: BarryP on August 30, 2021, 03:08:42 PM

Quote from: Deeping_white on August 30, 2021, 02:54:28 PM

Quote from: davew on August 30, 2021, 01:47:06 PM
Ridiculous transaction!!!!!! Sell him by all means but not a loan deal, how does that help us this season to replace him? Presumably that´s the end of business in this transfer window unless we decide to lend out a few more players. Not happy!

In other news, water is wet

In other additional news, people who have no inside knowledge of the deal jump to rash conclusions and water is still wet.

I was making a point of Dave being negative as per usual rather than the transfer itself, because nobody but the club actually know the finer details

0001.jpeg

Think all my other comments so far this season have been positive, just like the team performances!!

Personally, I'm glad to see the back of him. Never cut it in the Prem and contributed very little, if anything when he played. Overrated and overpriced, the latter not being his fault obviously. Just not good enough and we ain't missed him so far this season.

I'll give him a ride if he wants

He could have done better, he should have done better. If he has gone, let us move on as there is nothing to see here, I have more or less forgotten him already.

If Anguisse leaves this time there must be no return for him.

William Cav would be a upgrade if we can get him.

Quote from: LC on August 30, 2021, 05:10:24 PM
If Anguisse leaves this time there must be no return for him.

William Cav would be a upgrade if we can get him.

No.  He would not.    8 years ago, maybe.  And even then just barely.   Anguissa is a box to box that can put in a tackle.   I don't think William has ever thought about moving forward (I'm only slightly kidding).

I've watched him for years on the Portuguese side and he's always seemed extremely slow.  Solid...but slow.

I have no idea whether he's any good or not, however William Carvalho seems to have been linked with numerous English sides in every single transfer window for the last decade or so

Best to move the non-committed on. We don't need him. 

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 30, 2021, 05:46:20 PM

Quote from: LC on August 30, 2021, 05:10:24 PM
If Anguisse leaves this time there must be no return for him.

William Cav would be a upgrade if we can get him.

No.  He would not.    8 years ago, maybe.  And even then just barely.   Anguissa is a box to box that can put in a tackle.   I don't think William has ever thought about moving forward (I'm only slightly kidding).

I've watched him for years on the Portuguese side and he's always seemed extremely slow.  Solid...but slow.

I would agree with you, but Anguisse doesn't want to be here, and a committed William Cav is definitely better than Anguisse who wouldn't give his all on the pitch. On top of which he has a lot of experience which would add to the team- he's a defensive midfielder so it's hard to compare them.

In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 30, 2021, 05:46:20 PM

Quote from: LC on August 30, 2021, 05:10:24 PM
If Anguisse leaves this time there must be no return for him.

William Cav would be a upgrade if we can get him.

No.  He would not.    8 years ago, maybe.  And even then just barely.   Anguissa is a box to box that can put in a tackle.   I don't think William has ever thought about moving forward (I'm only slightly kidding).

I've watched him for years on the Portuguese side and he's always seemed extremely slow.  Solid...but slow.

I don't remember too many forward passes from Anguissa, the ball always gets 'recycled' back towards our own end.
A travesty for such a quality player.

Quote from: FFCFOREVER on August 30, 2021, 04:29:46 PM
Personally, I'm glad to see the back of him. Never cut it in the Prem and contributed very little, if anything when he played. Overrated and overpriced, the latter not being his fault obviously. Just not good enough and we ain't missed him so far this season.

+1 totally agree. People say he is quality but I've hardly ever seen it. No goals, hardly any assists and openly said he doesn't want to play for us. Just wish we were selling him for something substantial rather than a loan.

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

And on the other end we got Tosin, Tete and Robinson for what?   Not every move is going to be a home run.

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

We will actually be paying for them for a few years more once they have left.

Quote from: Jules on August 30, 2021, 06:25:15 PM

Quote from: FFCFOREVER on August 30, 2021, 04:29:46 PM
Personally, I'm glad to see the back of him. Never cut it in the Prem and contributed very little, if anything when he played. Overrated and overpriced, the latter not being his fault obviously. Just not good enough and we ain't missed him so far this season.

+1 totally agree. People say he is quality but I've hardly ever seen it. No goals, hardly any assists and openly said he doesn't want to play for us. Just wish we were selling him for something substantial rather than a loan.

He has the quality, but does what Parker use to do as a player. Pivot in a circle then beat players who don't need beating, someone needs to shout 'STOP!'.

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

We weren't to know Parker would get us relegated.

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

If that Villarreal bid is true then our decision making in that case is truly shocking. We should have snapped their hands off.

Quote from: Jules on August 30, 2021, 06:33:00 PM

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

If that Villarreal bid is true then our decision making in that case is truly shocking. We should have snapped their hands off.

Easy to say so now. But last August we were promoted to the Premier League and had just five weeks to prepare for our opening fixture. Parker supposedly wanted to keep Anguissa and understandably so. His form at Villareal suggested he would be a player of genuine ability at our new level.

Quote from: FFCFOREVER on August 30, 2021, 04:29:46 PM
Personally, I'm glad to see the back of him. Never cut it in the Prem and contributed very little, if anything when he played. Overrated and overpriced, the latter not being his fault obviously. Just not good enough and we ain't missed him so far this season.

Anguissa was arguably our best outfield player for the first 1/3 of last season until he got COVID. I think this is an unfair assessment, backed by clubs like Villareal and Napoli wanting him. I wanted to see more from him in terms of impact in the final third, but all this retro-slander is a bit much. He wasn't good his first season with us, but who actually was? He wins tackles and was one of the top dribble take-ons players in the Prem last season. Maybe Parker murdered him like he killed virtually everyone else in our front six? The run and throughball against Leicester for Lookman's goal suggests the ability was there. Just rarely saw it as he defaulted to the most conservative option.

Not everyone can be Lothar Matthaus, but there's middle ground between that and how Anguissa is being described. It's best for all parties for him to move on at this point, but I anticipate that he'll do quite well in Italy.

Zambo usually left me feeling he had an ok(ish) game. Sort a bit Meh.  Agree with Denver that his best little spell was the start of last season but even then his contribution was limited.  If there's a really good player in there I didn't see it.
Given his very average contribution when he deigns to play for us and that he never wants to play for us in the Championship, I say good riddance.

Could it be that a replacement is a loan to buy player? each cancelling the other out?

Quote from: rebel on August 30, 2021, 06:24:03 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 30, 2021, 05:46:20 PM

Quote from: LC on August 30, 2021, 05:10:24 PM
If Anguisse leaves this time there must be no return for him.

William Cav would be a upgrade if we can get him.

No.  He would not.    8 years ago, maybe.  And even then just barely.   Anguissa is a box to box that can put in a tackle.   I don't think William has ever thought about moving forward (I'm only slightly kidding).

I've watched him for years on the Portuguese side and he's always seemed extremely slow.  Solid...but slow.

I don't remember too many forward passes from Anguissa, the ball always gets 'recycled' back towards our own end.
A travesty for such a quality player.

Or he ended up losing the ball TRYING to be like Dembele the 1st. And failing miserably.

After games, I was always left thinking, I wish we had a decent manager that knew how to use players properly. Absolutely criminal some of the tactics at this level.

The enigma has gone ........ whether you think he is brilliant or not it makes no odds . He didn't want to play in the Championship - his choice not ours.  He is the first yo yo player I have ever come across  - I don't want us to be a yo yo team so by simple logic we do not need a yo yo player. Is it a shame ! Of course it is but that blame cannot really be on the Club.
Potentially a brilliant player - but a bad buy - poor attitude.

Seri , on the other hand , is proving me wrong- and I am delighted

He doesn't want to play for us in the championship, we don't want him. End of

Quote from: bigalffc on August 30, 2021, 08:23:07 PM
He doesn't want to play for us in the championship, we don't want him. End of

Exactly  0001.jpeg

When he first showed up, most everyone posting on this board thought he was terrific.  The real deal.  And he played well, for a time.   I'll always wonder if imposed tactics and style worked against his game.  Some very good clubs wanted him, which indicates they saw the quality.  But he's gone now, leaving like a mercenary.  So he's dead to me.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 30, 2021, 06:25:24 PM

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

And on the other end we got Tosin, Tete and Robinson for what?   Not every move is going to be a home run.

After FFC was offerred £22.5m, Anguissa's value continued to rise until he got Covid-19 and frankly a year after covid-19 his value will rise again to £25m. Fulham probably have no choice but to offload Anguissa, but anyone that gets him at £10m is getting a real bargain.

Anguissa is a lot better midfielder than anyone we have had in the championship since Tigana's team, he is one of the key reasons for our defensive record last season. If anyone think Seri is a good #6 in the championship, then I suggest Anguissa is on a completely different level (far better than Seri or Reed).

I still think we might get a better offer for Anguissa, or sell another few players instead.

My biggest regret with Anguissa is never seeing him play for us within the framework of a good team with a good manager. The right manager could have turned him into a world-class box to box midfielder.

I've read that the buy option would be for 17M Euro's so that's not to bad. 

Quote from: bigalffc on August 30, 2021, 08:23:07 PM
He doesn't want to play for us in the championship, we don't want him. End of

+1  :54:

Frank Zamboanga Anguissa has a great name, great physic, great hair, strengh, skill and a superb athlete.  His problem is that he is not a fighter, a Ruiz type player who will do what he wants when he wants.  He has all the ability in the world but his attitude is suspect.  Anyone with any character would give Fulham one season in the championship, especially if they were being paid so well.  Suspect this has been noted by Premiership teams and why he has slopped off to Italy.   Silver is building a team of skilful footballers who can also scrap and win in a fight, Frank doesn't really fancy that does he!

Quote from Fulham Stu "Silver is building a team of skilful footballers who can also scrap and win in a fight, Frank doesn't really fancy that does he!"

Spot on . He clearly doesn't want that. I think Silva's statement about wanting to keep him was an attempt by our new boss to motivate the guy to stay and be a part of his vision for this team. Zambo has chosen to ignore that. I noticed on Saturday that just before the re start at half time the other subs were all actively warming up together and Zambo cut a rather sad, lone figure as he walked alone to the dug out . It was obvious that he was off and that the club couldn't afford for him to get injured. Him going has to be the best result for everyone. Silva wants a team that fights  for each other and  it looks to be a very , very happy camp .We simply cannot afford someone who could poison that because he believes that he is too good to play alongside his teammates in the Championship
It's a shame for us all that such a talent is leaving  - but it's more of a shame on him in my opinion

I've been so disappointed in Frank and posted numerous times why.

As all seem to agree, he has ability and physique that most others would die for but I've watched him closely and his shortcomings are many, in my opinion:

He lacks awareness and often loses his man
Ball watches in space when oppo in possession, rather than looking for where the danger might be
His tackling is woolly not crisp
He passes sideways and backwards 90% of the time, by default
Takes no responsibility
Rarely looks to put a man through
Saunters around as if he's in control but the game goes on around him
Can't shoot
Doesn't assist goals

Don't doubt his dribbling skills and flicks into space but decision making poor and careless at the end of runs.

Overall, I've too often found myself screaming instructions at him and was hoping Grimes or someone like that alongside him might bully him into a more disciplined game but alas time has run out.
Doesn't score goals

He has such little regard for our club

http://sportwitness.co.uk/player-didnt-hesitate-say-yes-fulham-exit-even-one-moment-pressures-helped-deal-happen/

Whilst I think it both for the best, and likely, that Anguissa will leave today, I find the general tone of this thread absolutely f***ing remarkable given it comprises posts from a bunch of people who only a few weeks ago had all the same feelings about Seri and have watched him completely disprove all their theories and assumptions and become arguably the most important player we'll have this coming season

FFS when will people learn

Quote from: bencher on August 31, 2021, 07:52:32 AM
My biggest regret with Anguissa is never seeing him play for us within the framework of a good team with a good manager. The right manager could have turned him into a world-class box to box midfielder.

The biggest thing for me is how little his presence has changed the fortune of the club either positively or negatively. Reinforces the importance of building versus buying a squad for success.

He has not been a part of the promotions but has been part of the relegations. Whether the club purchased him or not didn't matter as his presence changed nothing about the club's current standing.

Reminds me of Berbatov in that he was a good player but such an ill fit at the club in terms of timing and trajectory.

Don't think you'll find Seri analysed and criticised in these pages in the way Frank has been, mainly because he doesn't enjoy the over-praise that Frank does.

The stats we're told tell a good story that Zambo is our top man etc but you have to believe your own eyes.

Also think about it. After fighting our way into the pre-K, We bought him for shedloads of cash and went straight back down, upon which he wanted away, even on loan, as presumably too good for second tier. So we scrapped our way back up again without him and he reigned to rejoin his FFC comrades, only to take us down again, this time without a fight. Surprise, surprise, Frank now wants out again cos presumably he still thinks he's too good for championship.

Not my type of player nor my type of character but I respect others see him differently.

Quote from: unionist_ffc on August 31, 2021, 11:58:23 AM
He has such little regard for our club

http://sportwitness.co.uk/player-didnt-hesitate-say-yes-fulham-exit-even-one-moment-pressures-helped-deal-happen/

You believe this garbage?

Quote from: millsy on August 31, 2021, 03:53:07 PM
Don't think you'll find Seri analysed and criticised in these pages in the way Frank has been, mainly because he doesn't enjoy the over-praise that Frank does.

The stats we're told tell a good story that Zambo is our top man etc but you have to believe your own eyes.

Also think about it. After fighting our way into the pre-K, We bought him for shedloads of cash and went straight back down, upon which he wanted away, even on loan, as presumably too good for second tier. So we scrapped our way back up again without him and he reigned to rejoin his FFC comrades, only to take us down again, this time without a fight. Surprise, surprise, Frank now wants out again cos presumably he still thinks he's too good for championship.

Not my type of player nor my type of character but I respect others see him differently.

Suppose it's just a coincidence Mitrovic got a new contract both times we were relegated, nothing to do with him "wanting away" and needing a little bit of dosh to be persuaded to stay...

Reality is that no footballer, whether it's Anguissa, Seri or Mitrovic or even Ryan Sessegnon, wants to play in the Championship if they're good enough for the PL.

Everything else about Anguissa is pure speculation... just like there were pages and pages of speculation on what a "toxic" player Seri was and how he's made "statements" that he wants to leave (all bo11ocks but I can dig it out for you if you like)

C-ya
Has he officially gone yet ?
🍾

didn't see that coming did you?

Frank extends his contract and heads out on loan. 🤖

Wishing him all the best for the season.#FFC

— Fulham Football Club (@FulhamFC) August 31, 2021

The Club can confirm that André-Frank Zambo Anguissa has extended his contract with Fulham before joining Napoli on loan for the duration of this season.

Anguissa's extended deal now ties him to Craven Cottage until the summer of 2024.

The midfielder has made 66 appearances so far for the Whites, including three this season, and now joins up with Luciano Spalletti's side, who currently sit fifth in Serie A.

We would like to wish Frank all the best during his loan spell in Italy.

https://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2021/august/Extended-Deal-Loan-For-Frank/

No mention of an option to buy

Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 31, 2021, 06:03:39 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 30, 2021, 06:25:24 PM

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

And on the other end we got Tosin, Tete and Robinson for what?   Not every move is going to be a home run.

After FFC was offerred £22.5m, Anguissa's value continued to rise until he got Covid-19 and frankly a year after covid-19 his value will rise again to £25m. Fulham probably have no choice but to offload Anguissa, but anyone that gets him at £10m is getting a real bargain.

Anguissa is a lot better midfielder than anyone we have had in the championship since Tigana's team, he is one of the key reasons for our defensive record last season. If anyone think Seri is a good #6 in the championship, then I suggest Anguissa is on a completely different level (far better than Seri or Reed).

I still think we might get a better offer for Anguissa, or sell another few players instead.

Moussa Dembele was better

Quote from: Caedal on August 31, 2021, 05:34:56 PM
No mention of an option to buy

Looks like there are a lot of people who will have to swallow some of what they said with the news.

Quote from: Caedal on August 31, 2021, 05:34:56 PM
No mention of an option to buy

We will sell him next summer.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Quote from: NJFulham on August 31, 2021, 05:38:05 PM

Quote from: Caedal on August 31, 2021, 05:34:56 PM
No mention of an option to buy

We will sell him next summer.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

What makes you say that? He's clearly an asset at the premier league level and Silva said he liked him - we wont sell him now unless the offer is significant and him renewing suggests he must be at least pretty happy with his contract here and the club / players.

He's young - we go up and TK and Silva get this year right and then sign the right players next summer then it's an entirely different conversation around Frank.

think you're just coming to made up conclusions.

I agree. I think the club have a lot of faith in Frank, but he's the biggest asset we have (and probably the highest earner) so things have to happen when we go down to leverage what we have FFP wise. If Silva likes him, then I reckon he'll stay when we go up.

I assume we got a good loan fee plus they pay his wages. That could be worth 5-6m overall.

I think we've done well here

Edit: seems like Napoli have announced there is an option, so scrap this

Clever move by the club (and possibly good for Frank)  Good business.

Quote from: Caedal on August 31, 2021, 05:46:44 PM
I agree. I think the club have a lot of faith in Frank, but he's the biggest asset we have (and probably the highest earner) so things have to happen when we go down to leverage what we have FFP wise. If Silva likes him, then I reckon he'll stay when we go up.

I assume we got a good loan fee plus they pay his wages. That could be worth 5-6m overall.

I think we've done well here

Edit: seems like Napoli have announced there is an option, so scrap this

Don't get why we'd extend his contract if there was an option to buy.

Quote from: blingo on August 31, 2021, 05:35:10 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 31, 2021, 06:03:39 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 30, 2021, 06:25:24 PM

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

And on the other end we got Tosin, Tete and Robinson for what?   Not every move is going to be a home run.

After FFC was offerred £22.5m, Anguissa's value continued to rise until he got Covid-19 and frankly a year after covid-19 his value will rise again to £25m. Fulham probably have no choice but to offload Anguissa, but anyone that gets him at £10m is getting a real bargain.

Anguissa is a lot better midfielder than anyone we have had in the championship since Tigana's team, he is one of the key reasons for our defensive record last season. If anyone think Seri is a good #6 in the championship, then I suggest Anguissa is on a completely different level (far better than Seri or Reed).

I still think we might get a better offer for Anguissa, or sell another few players instead.

Moussa Dembele was better

He's a striker. I think you mean Mousa Dembele.

Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on August 31, 2021, 05:55:25 PM

Quote from: Caedal on August 31, 2021, 05:46:44 PM
I agree. I think the club have a lot of faith in Frank, but he's the biggest asset we have (and probably the highest earner) so things have to happen when we go down to leverage what we have FFP wise. If Silva likes him, then I reckon he'll stay when we go up.

I assume we got a good loan fee plus they pay his wages. That could be worth 5-6m overall.

I think we've done well here

Edit: seems like Napoli have announced there is an option, so scrap this

Don't get why we'd extend his contract if there was an option to buy.

FFP. Looks like FZA triggered the extension. Club probably told him, we can't option to buy you at that price without an extra year to amortize. Not sure exact figures, but they probably just took somewhere in the neighborhood of a 10 million place hold for FZA and turned it into 2-3 (if there was no loan fee) for this season.

I keep re-reading the Fulham official announcement, and it just doesn't fit the narrative that there is an option to buy. Maybe there's been some crossed wires in the media department, because to me it sounds like they're expecting him back

Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on August 31, 2021, 05:55:25 PM

Quote from: Caedal on August 31, 2021, 05:46:44 PM
I agree. I think the club have a lot of faith in Frank, but he's the biggest asset we have (and probably the highest earner) so things have to happen when we go down to leverage what we have FFP wise. If Silva likes him, then I reckon he'll stay when we go up.

I assume we got a good loan fee plus they pay his wages. That could be worth 5-6m overall.

I think we've done well here

Edit: seems like Napoli have announced there is an option, so scrap this

Don't get why we'd extend his contract if there was an option to buy.

££££££££

On the face of it well done Fulham. Franks gets a years experience in Italian to league. Hopefully we go up then we have the option to play him in PL or sell him for a reasonable fee. And we don't have to pay his wages this season.

Napoli's website says option to buy.

https://www.sscnapoli.it/static/news/Anguissa-joins-Napoli-on-loan-23332.aspx (https://www.sscnapoli.it/static/news/Anguissa-joins-Napoli-on-loan-23332.aspx)

The poor standard of our information to supporters means I am inclined to believe that there is an option, and an oversight on our announcement. All talk in the negotiation was of an option with differing sums.

Quote from: millsy on August 31, 2021, 11:51:39 AM
I've been so disappointed in Frank and posted numerous times why.

As all seem to agree, he has ability and physique that most others would die for but I've watched him closely and his shortcomings are many, in my opinion:

He lacks awareness and often loses his man
Ball watches in space when oppo in possession, rather than looking for where the danger might be
His tackling is woolly not crisp
He passes sideways and backwards 90% of the time, by default
Takes no responsibility
Rarely looks to put a man through
Saunters around as if he's in control but the game goes on around him
Can't shoot
Doesn't assist goals

Don't doubt his dribbling skills and flicks into space but decision making poor and careless at the end of runs.

Overall, I've too often found myself screaming instructions at him and was hoping Grimes or someone like that alongside him might bully him into a more disciplined game but alas time has run out.
Doesn't score goals

Still amazes me to this day why people think he's so good, I'm convinced it's the price tag and those dazzling sideways runs into know where, 

Ask any Marseille supporter their opinion on him and they'll tell you the same thing, they simply couldn't believe we coughed up that much dough for him.

By far one Of the most overrated Fulham players in recent years

And if we were to get promoted again this season I for one certainly wouldn't want him back

The option to buy could be assuming Fulham agree to sell.  We could refuse that and sell him to another club for more.  Unless you know all the terms the contract could be written in many different ways.  I suspect it's all to do with FFP.

Quote from: perry geyton on August 31, 2021, 06:21:29 PM
And if we were to get promoted again this season I for one certainly wouldn't want him back

Agreed

Quote from: blingo on August 31, 2021, 05:35:10 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 31, 2021, 06:03:39 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 30, 2021, 06:25:24 PM

Quote from: Dougie on August 30, 2021, 06:20:26 PM
In hindsight, really should have taken that £22.5m bid from Villareal we turnned down last August. Jesus. Still not a penny recouped from anyone from that entire summer 2018 transfer window. What a shambles.

The good news is that, with the club sanctioning a loan move whilst looking to strengthen in other positions, we *must* be FFP compliant at the moment, otherwise we would surely be frantically trying to find a suitor for a permanent transfer right up to the last minute.

And on the other end we got Tosin, Tete and Robinson for what?   Not every move is going to be a home run.

After FFC was offerred £22.5m, Anguissa's value continued to rise until he got Covid-19 and frankly a year after covid-19 his value will rise again to £25m. Fulham probably have no choice but to offload Anguissa, but anyone that gets him at £10m is getting a real bargain.

Anguissa is a lot better midfielder than anyone we have had in the championship since Tigana's team, he is one of the key reasons for our defensive record last season. If anyone think Seri is a good #6 in the championship, then I suggest Anguissa is on a completely different level (far better than Seri or Reed).

I still think we might get a better offer for Anguissa, or sell another few players instead.

Moussa Dembele was better

So was Steed

Quote from: perry geyton on August 31, 2021, 06:21:29 PM
And if we were to get promoted again this season I for one certainly wouldn't want him back

Me neither. I wish him luck but he can't keep saying he won't play in the championship whilst coming back when we go up. Creates bad squad morale. He isn't too good for the championship either in my opinion. Really hope Napoli end up paying the fee and we can all move on.

Quote from: FFCFOREVER on August 31, 2021, 06:44:05 PM

Quote from: perry geyton on August 31, 2021, 06:21:29 PM
And if we were to get promoted again this season I for one certainly wouldn't want him back

Agreed

And me

Has anyone seen anything reliable on how much the loan fee is and how much the option is?

The figure of EUR17m is being thrown around a lot for the option, but I see some people saying that is actually a EUR7m loan fee with a EUR10m option?

Im interested in what the benefit is to the current seasons financial accounts because as things stand, I think Fulham are looking at losses greater than £50m for the season...and if thats the case, Im worried they will need to try and sell Tosin before the window shuts to try and balance the books a bit and not be an FFP disaster!

Surely extending his contract will effect the amortization in ffp by approx million each year,so could put more funds on paper in the ffp pot for this year.I could also be talking complete ballocks

Quote from: Craven_Chris on August 31, 2021, 06:49:41 PM
Has anyone seen anything reliable on how much the loan fee is and how much the option is?

The figure of EUR17m is being thrown around a lot for the option, but I see some people saying that is actually a EUR7m loan fee with a EUR10m option?

Im interested in what the benefit is to the current seasons financial accounts because as things stand, I think Fulham are looking at losses greater than £50m for the season...and if thats the case, Im worried they will need to try and sell Tosin before the window shuts to try and balance the books a bit and not be an FFP disaster!

You are the one who estimates these things and very cogently. However, any FFP disaster or triumph surely only applies after the January window has closed, not this one.  A lot of water may flow under the bridge between now and then.

Quote from: FulhamStu on August 31, 2021, 06:26:41 PM
The option to buy could be assuming Fulham agree to sell.  We could refuse that and sell him to another club for more.  Unless you know all the terms the contract could be written in many different ways.  I suspect it's all to do with FFP.

Exactly right - an option to buy does not mean we have to sell him to Napoli at the end of the season

Quote from: b+w geezer on August 31, 2021, 07:01:23 PM

Quote from: Craven_Chris on August 31, 2021, 06:49:41 PM
Has anyone seen anything reliable on how much the loan fee is and how much the option is?

The figure of EUR17m is being thrown around a lot for the option, but I see some people saying that is actually a EUR7m loan fee with a EUR10m option?

Im interested in what the benefit is to the current seasons financial accounts because as things stand, I think Fulham are looking at losses greater than £50m for the season...and if thats the case, Im worried they will need to try and sell Tosin before the window shuts to try and balance the books a bit and not be an FFP disaster!

You are the one who estimates these things and very cogently. However, any FFP disaster or triumph surely only applies after the January window has closed, not this one.  A lot of water may flow under the bridge between now and then.

Thats a good point, any sale would not have to be tonight. But I do worry that, at some point this year, we will need another big sale, and I cant really see who else it would be apart from Tosin.

Quote from: SG on August 31, 2021, 07:05:03 PM

Quote from: FulhamStu on August 31, 2021, 06:26:41 PM
The option to buy could be assuming Fulham agree to sell.  We could refuse that and sell him to another club for more.  Unless you know all the terms the contract could be written in many different ways.  I suspect it's all to do with FFP.

Exactly right - an option to buy does not mean we have to sell him to Napoli at the end of the season

My understanding is that an option to buy means that Napoli can trigger the sale at the pre-agreed price. We are entitled to also accept other bids from other clubs, and it may be that if those clubs offer Anguissa better personal terms than Napoli, he may choose them instead. But we can't turn down an offer from Napoli at the price agreed.

I could be wrong but thats how I thought it worked.

Quote from: Craven_Chris on August 31, 2021, 07:17:32 PM
Thats a good point, any sale would not have to be tonight. But I do worry that, at some point this year, we will need another big sale, and I cant really see who else it would be apart from Tosin.

No other young players who look hot?

If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark. 

Quote from: Statto on August 31, 2021, 07:28:44 PM
If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark. 

The other part which I believe is not understood is the impact of salary on the decision making. I think the players actual salaries are probably much more debatable and probably inflated by agents for obvious reasons.

Quote from: WolverineFFC on August 31, 2021, 07:35:32 PM

Quote from: Statto on August 31, 2021, 07:28:44 PM
If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark. 

The other part which I believe is not understood is the impact of salary on the decision making. I think the players actual salaries are probably much more debatable and probably inflated by agents for obvious reasons.

Agree with both of you. I always treat posts claiming to have calculated our FFP situation with several pinches of salt.

Quote from: Statto on August 31, 2021, 07:28:44 PM
If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark.

It could easily be the case that the FFP estimates including my own, are way out and that is the easiest explanation, I hope it it the correct one.

It could also be the case that the club thought they would get a big lump sum for Anguissa and made deals (highly structured to move the financial impact out of the 21/22 season) on the assumption that Anguissa would fund them, and address any further shortfalls. Perhaps Anguissa didn't raise what they thought, and they will then be forced to sell a further asset to make it up, which is my concern.

But one thing we do know if that, with a similar squad to the one in place at the moment (actually slightly smaller) and first year parachute payments in place, Fulham lost £45m in 19/20 after selling Ryan Sess for £25m and after loaning out both Seri and Anguissa. The operating losses were close to £75m that year and its hard to see, at the moment, why this season would be financially better. Its reasonable to wonder how the club is going to address that level of loss (even is the answer is that our generous owner will just absorb it).

Quote from: Craven_Chris on August 31, 2021, 07:44:39 PM

Quote from: Statto on August 31, 2021, 07:28:44 PM
If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark.

It could easily be the case that the FFP estimates including my own, are way out and that is the easiest explanation, I hope it it the correct one.

It could also be the case that the club thought they would get a big lump sum for Anguissa and made deals (highly structured to move the financial impact out of the 21/22 season) on the assumption that Anguissa would fund them, and address any further shortfalls. Perhaps Anguissa didn't raise what they thought, and they will then be forced to sell a further asset to make it up, which is my concern.

But one thing we do know if that, with a similar squad to the one in place at the moment (actually slightly smaller) and first year parachute payments in place, Fulham lost £45m in 19/20 after selling Ryan Sess for £25m and after loaning out both Seri and Anguissa. The operating losses were close to £75m that year and its hard to see, at the moment, why this season would be financially better. Its reasonable to wonder how the club is going to address that level of loss (even is the answer is that our generous owner will just absorb it).

But they also purchased BDR, Cav, and Hector. Each were purchased for more individually than the total transfer spend this season has been. Add in the Knock loan/sale, not sure how that was figured and you have a lot more outgoing. I doubt the club have brought in as much this season, but the sales of AK, MLM, and StefJo generated income also. The offloading of KMac, Betts, and likely Christie are not insignificant either.

I hear what you are saying, but I have a good bit of optimism the Mitro extension was also part of manipulation for FFP and the numbers for FZA, etc are all part of a bigger financial picture to ensure compliance with FFP.

All good points Wolverine, I am fairly confident that Fulham won't actually breach FFP this season. I think my worries are twofold

I) That the Anguissa sale didn't go as well as expected and a second sale is needed and
Ii) we meet FFP despite big losses because last year was profitable, but we then constrain ourselves for the rest of the 3 year assessment period.

Pure speculation of course though!

I'm pretty sure parachute payments have gone up by 20m-30 for the first relegation year since the last time we were relegated... but I looked online and couldn't find any confirmation of what they are for this year

Plus not to mention that we received 145m for being in the premier league last season

I believe we haven't seen the best of Frank. Dembele no1 didnt' show his best for us till late in his Fulham career. the Championship isn't a division that best suits his skill set. Extending his contract and loaning him out for the season makes perfect sense.

Quote from: Craven_Chris on August 31, 2021, 08:06:05 PM
All good points Wolverine, I am fairly confident that Fulham won't actually breach FFP this season. I think my worries are twofold

I) That the Anguissa sale didn't go as well as expected and a second sale is needed and
Ii) we meet FFP despite big losses because last year was profitable, but we then constrain ourselves for the rest of the 3 year assessment period.

Pure speculation of course though!

The speculation is what makes it fun! No consequences to us being wrong.

I think the Khan's are astute enough financially to figure in some of the issues with the FZA parameters with their planning. Wouldn't be surprised if it impacts some of the decisions made today though. Maybe loans instead of purchases.

To the second point I can see your concern, but if the club are the top flight again next season it is less of an issue.

Alastair Mackintosh is a qualified accountant with huge experience of transfer windows, and has access to a load of info we can only guess.  So while it's fun to discuss this stuff, I feel we can let him do the worrying at the end of the day. (Plus that day will be 31 Jan, not August).

Quote from: b+w geezer on August 31, 2021, 08:49:47 PM
Alastair Mackintosh is a qualified accountant with huge experience of transfer windows, and has access to a load of info we can only guess.  So while it's fun to discuss this stuff, I feel we can let him do the worrying at the end of the day. (Plus that day will be 31 Jan, not August).

Yes, he also has a 'little black book', that's where Magath came from, one of his many contacts.

Quote from: rebel on August 31, 2021, 08:52:42 PM
Yes, he also has a 'little black book', that's where Magath came from, one of his many contacts.

As you imply, he should maybe have stuck to the accountancy side of football.

Quote from: Statto on August 31, 2021, 07:28:44 PM
If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark.

We know Fulham has FFP problems, because we can see the publically available financial records of previous seasons and then estimate.

Fulham's Offical Financial Records state for the 2019/20 season that FFCs expenses (including operating expenses and amortization) were £131,849,000 and our turnover (gate receipts, parachute payments & sponsorship but not player sales profit) was £58,035,000, with player profit near £25,310,000. In addition, we know last time we were in the Premier League in 18/19 our turnover was £137,748,000.

We can fairly safely estimate that Fulham's expenses over the period from July 2019 to June 2022 (three seasons), would be at least three times the 19/20 season (£131m) therefore expenses are more than £393m (3x131).

We also know that Fulham's turnover over the period from July 2019 to June 2022 composes of one Premier League season (last turnover was £138m) and two championship seasons (last turnover was £58m), therefore around £254m (2x58+138). We also have another £36m from the Ryan Sessegnon, Harvey Elliott, and Kamara's sale, bringing total revenue to £290m.

Fulham's lossses, difference between expenses and revenue, is supposed to be £61m plus youth development costs, but expenses are more than £393m and revenue is around £290m, so Fulham's losses before youth development are more than £103m (393-290) over three seasons.

Obviously at £42m hole needs to be made up, Anguissa contract extensions might have moved his wage and amortization to next season-saving us maybe £8m, youth development could be £30m, and a lot of last seasons loans payments conditional on staying up (keeping RLC and other wages/fee to £0m), but even then we need to find another sale like Rodak or Cairney for £5m.

Lesson learned,always look who's posting before reading.

 If they've been too gloomy then great, but the post here and those by Craven Chris  do raise suspicion of a crown jewel or  two needing selling in January which is when FFP compliance must be finalised. If so, that'll be sad but a player worth attracting a big bid is rarely at a club our size for even half his career. Haynes days are long passed.

If the club sees it that way too, then it may be thinking: promotion this season is more essential than it has ever been. There are two chances to comply with the financial regs. Don't take the first, but front load the new manager with all the resouces we can, so as to reach late January in a really strong position for an automatic spot. Then, if that has worked, selling a top player won't be fatal and once in the Prem there is loads more money. Or..if it hasn't worked, sales of many players will be needed in the summer anyway. Make hay whie we can.

Quote from: b+w geezer on September 01, 2021, 08:44:17 AM
If they've been too gloomy then great, but the post here and those by Craven Chris  do raise suspicion of a crown jewel or  two needing selling in January which is when FFP compliance must be finalised. If so, that'll be sad but a player worth attracting a big bid is rarely at a club our size for even half his career. Haynes days are long passed.

If the club sees it that way too, then it may be thinking: promotion this season is more essential than it has ever been. There are two chances to comply with the financial regs. Don't take the first, but front load the new manager with all the resouces we can, so as to reach late January in a really strong position for an automatic spot. Then, if that has worked, selling a top player won't be fatal and once in the Prem there is loads more money. Or..if it hasn't worked, sales of many players will be needed in the summer anyway. Make hay whie we can.

We can theoretically get 85 points before the winter transfer window deadline day happens and we need to meet FFP. We got 68 points in the last 29 games of 18/19, then maybe this season we need to aim to get 68 points that in the first 29 games, then we can sell Rodak, Hector, Bryan, Reed, Cairney, Knockaert, and Caverlio to meet FFP without fear.

We'd shed a lot of wages like that -- not sure the'd all attract fees! But yes, something like that, and/or one of our real sellables.  If it is impossible to have the best of all possible worlds, then opt for the best in the circs.

Your points calculations are fun to ponder. I would certainly settle for 68 out of 29! A team with 55 could still reasonably aspire to an automatic place if they got a move on. In this scenario we'd be imagining more of a slowdown so, say 60 with 17 to go would still leave me fairly chipper. With the resources now to hand and the start made, every reason to expect Silva to deliver on that. No guarantees, but you can only lay policy bets where they seem likeliest to pay off.

Irrespective of financial issues, if we do go up this season I don't really want us to persevere with Frank in the Prem. He's undoubtedly a talented player, arguably one of the most naturally talented in our squad, but we've now had 2 unsuccessful Premier League campaigns with him in the team and I for one feel that we need to be moving away from those clearly inadequate groups of players to reinforcing the current team with something new.

Why did Frank extend his contract if he wants away?
Was  it to help us out?
Not sure I understand that aspect of this deal.

Quote from: TerryR on September 01, 2021, 08:37:32 PM
Why did Frank extend his contract if he wants away?
Was  it to help us out?
Not sure I understand that aspect of this deal.

Almost certainly to help out with FFP amortisation of original transfer fee.

Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on September 01, 2021, 04:33:49 PM
Irrespective of financial issues, if we do go up this season I don't really want us to persevere with Frank in the Prem. He's undoubtedly a talented player, arguably one of the most naturally talented in our squad, but we've now had 2 unsuccessful Premier League campaigns with him in the team and I for one feel that we need to be moving away from those clearly inadequate groups of players to reinforcing the current team with something new.

I agree and he's talented within reason, zero end product,  and personally I never wanna see him in a Fulham shirt again
Onwards and upwards

Quote from: Craven_Chris on August 31, 2021, 07:44:39 PM

Quote from: Statto on August 31, 2021, 07:28:44 PM
If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark.

It could easily be the case that the FFP estimates including my own, are way out and that is the easiest explanation, I hope it it the correct one.

It could also be the case that the club thought they would get a big lump sum for Anguissa and made deals (highly structured to move the financial impact out of the 21/22 season) on the assumption that Anguissa would fund them, and address any further shortfalls. Perhaps Anguissa didn't raise what they thought, and they will then be forced to sell a further asset to make it up, which is my concern.

But one thing we do know if that, with a similar squad to the one in place at the moment (actually slightly smaller) and first year parachute payments in place, Fulham lost £45m in 19/20 after selling Ryan Sess for £25m and after loaning out both Seri and Anguissa. The operating losses were close to £75m that year and its hard to see, at the moment, why this season would be financially better. Its reasonable to wonder how the club is going to address that level of loss (even is the answer is that our generous owner will just absorb it).

I'm one of those who thought we needed a net spend of minus £15m in the transfer window to hit FFP but now I'm not so sure.

Looking at 19/20 accounts and trying to work out FFP from them is pointless because most most Championship clubs posted a £30m+ loss that year without breaking FFP, and there are so many things that aren't part of those FFP calculations, including promotion bonuses of £10-20m), which is why promoted clubs always post huge losses - just look at Cardiff and Wolves in 17/18.

I'm willing to believe we operated close to FFP in 19/20. The key difference is that our net transfer amort was about £22m in 19/20 thanks to the Sess transfer, whereas it's maybe £34m in 21/22 so far (including re-calculating Mitrovic and Anguissa with respect to the new contract and contract extension). So, a £12m difference according to my sums.

But, we banked £5m more in prize money last season (because we finished 18th instead of 19th), we had the Harvey Eliott tribunal fee (£1.5m but we might actually get more this year the way he's featuring), and maybe there was genuinely a fair amount of rainy day/go-for-broke money we've always held in reserve for situations like this (it's general accounting practice have slack each year that you normally pass forward to the next year unless there's an emergency). Or, as is rumoured, clubs are using Covid to write off the transfer fees of some of their players, using the argument that "Covid losses" should include the impact of the pandemic on the transfer market, and that's what we're doing.

And quite simply, if we were really well over we wouldn't just be fudging Mitro's and Anguissa's transfer amortisation. We would be activating Seri's additional year (actually we should do this anyway), and extending the contract of Cav, BDR, and god help us Knockaert. I don't think we would have done things like extend Ream and Christie's contracts. I don't think we'd be signing players at the end of the deadline when our squad is already really strong.

When Wilson signed the press said the deal was structured "to keep Fulham within FFP constraints". I wonder if that literally meant we were at that point on the brink by our sums. Than we took in £4m, and that allowed us to sign Muniz. Then we re-structured Mitro and Anguissa sums, and we signed Chabolah.

Quote from: Bokonon on September 01, 2021, 08:58:57 PM

Quote from: TerryR on September 01, 2021, 08:37:32 PM
Why did Frank extend his contract if he wants away?
Was  it to help us out?
Not sure I understand that aspect of this deal.

Almost certainly to help out with FFP amortisation of original transfer fee.

Almost certainly a condition from us to accept a loan. Not only does it help with FFP amortisation, it will also preserve more resale value for next summer if Napoli don't take up the option to buy.

Quote from: Dougie on September 01, 2021, 09:22:36 PM

Looking at 19/20 accounts and trying to work out FFP from them is pointless because most Championship clubs posted a £30m+ loss that year without breaking FFP.

I suspect most of these clubs that are posting £30m+ losses are also breaking FFP (average £13m losses per year) but not getting caught. I really doubt many clubs are spending £17m of youth development (i'd love to know how much of Parker's wage was youth development) and promotion bonuses should only be for promoted teams.

Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 02, 2021, 02:58:54 AM

Quote from: Dougie on September 01, 2021, 09:22:36 PM

Looking at 19/20 accounts and trying to work out FFP from them is pointless because most Championship clubs posted a £30m+ loss that year without breaking FFP.

I suspect most of these clubs that are posting £30m+ losses are also breaking FFP (average £13m losses per year) but not getting caught. I really doubt many clubs are spending £17m of youth development (i'd love to know how much of Parker's wage was youth development) and promotion bonuses should only be for promoted teams.

It's more that Covid both dramatically reduced revenues that season and increased costs because the burden was on clubs to manage it without financial support. For FFP that season clubs were able to exclude the impact of Covid from their sums, and it'll be the same for 20/21.

That being said, this may have opened the door for clubs to take the piss a bit. I read somewhere that some Championship clubs had written down player valuations (i.e. reduced transfer amort on the books) in their submissions, because of the deflated transfer market due to Covid. I hope that whatever we've done is unimpeachable, but I wonder if we'[ve done something even more grandiose, like built in our new stand projections into our FFP calculations this year (because if it wasn't for Covid it'd be open right?).

Quote from: Dougie on September 02, 2021, 09:19:55 AM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 02, 2021, 02:58:54 AM

Quote from: Dougie on September 01, 2021, 09:22:36 PM

Looking at 19/20 accounts and trying to work out FFP from them is pointless because most Championship clubs posted a £30m+ loss that year without breaking FFP.

I suspect most of these clubs that are posting £30m+ losses are also breaking FFP (average £13m losses per year) but not getting caught. I really doubt many clubs are spending £17m of youth development (i'd love to know how much of Parker's wage was youth development) and promotion bonuses should only be for promoted teams.

It's more that Covid both dramatically reduced revenues that season and increased costs because the burden was on clubs to manage it without financial support. For FFP that season clubs were able to exclude the impact of Covid from their sums, and it'll be the same for 20/21.

That being said, this may have opened the door for clubs to take the piss a bit. I read somewhere that some Championship clubs had written down player valuations (i.e. reduced transfer amort on the books) in their submissions, because of the deflated transfer market due to Covid. I hope that whatever we've done is unimpeachable, but I wonder if we'[ve done something even more grandiose, like built in our new stand projections into our FFP calculations this year (because if it wasn't for Covid it'd be open right?).

I think the use of the covid cost deduction is one of the big unknowns here. I mean if Fulham had an offer for Anguissa last year of £22m (which I read somewhere) but now can only loan him out, can they put £22m as a covid cost because they would have sold him for that if they could? That would be quite extreme, but maybe that is the sort of thing clubs might be trying (for all I know).

On the subject of FFP accounting tricks... I wondered if the re-establishment of the women's team could be used for creating some FFP headroom. I understand that they now train and indeed play matches at Motspur Park, I wonder if that means that a portion of the running costs of Motspur Park can be allocated to that team, including ground staff, rates, coaches time etc. Imagine if all the coaching staff have in their contracts to spend 20% of their time coaching the women's team and 20% coaching the youth. Then can you allocate 40% of their wages to those activities, which are FFP exempt? This is the sort of thing that makes it very hard to get anywhere near the true position as we just dont know how the club approaches this sort of thing and what tricks they have up their sleave!

Quote from: Bokonon on September 01, 2021, 08:58:57 PM

Quote from: TerryR on September 01, 2021, 08:37:32 PM
Why did Frank extend his contract if he wants away?
Was  it to help us out?
Not sure I understand that aspect of this deal.

Almost certainly to help out with FFP amortisation of original transfer fee.

I, for one, am encouraged that Frank didn't completely sever from us.  Will we ever really know how much  his play was influenced/stifled by Scott?  He might greatly improve this season, and if he does, come back and help our fight to stay up.  Size, talent, enough speed. Can he adapt though.  We aren't going sideways and endlessly kicking backwards anymore.  How he does away this season will answer.

So this could be completely untrue, but I just heard the Napoli option to buy is only enforceable if we DONT get promoted. The option isn't enforceable if we do. That may be the reason the Fulham official announcement didn't mention the option and didn't sound like he was definitely leaving

I cannot remember if it was in a Rutzler comment but I read that Frank asked for the contract extension to be activated.