Frank extends his contract and heads to napoli on loan.

[Twig]

And if we were to get promoted again this season I for one certainly wouldn't want him back

Agreed

And me

[Craven_Chris]

Has anyone seen anything reliable on how much the loan fee is and how much the option is?

The figure of EUR17m is being thrown around a lot for the option, but I see some people saying that is actually a EUR7m loan fee with a EUR10m option?

Im interested in what the benefit is to the current seasons financial accounts because as things stand, I think Fulham are looking at losses greater than £50m for the season...and if thats the case, Im worried they will need to try and sell Tosin before the window shuts to try and balance the books a bit and not be an FFP disaster!

[mrmicawbers]

Surely extending his contract will effect the amortization in ffp by approx million each year,so could put more funds on paper in the ffp pot for this year.I could also be talking complete ballocks

[b+w geezer]

Has anyone seen anything reliable on how much the loan fee is and how much the option is?

The figure of EUR17m is being thrown around a lot for the option, but I see some people saying that is actually a EUR7m loan fee with a EUR10m option?

Im interested in what the benefit is to the current seasons financial accounts because as things stand, I think Fulham are looking at losses greater than £50m for the season...and if thats the case, Im worried they will need to try and sell Tosin before the window shuts to try and balance the books a bit and not be an FFP disaster!

You are the one who estimates these things and very cogently. However, any FFP disaster or triumph surely only applies after the January window has closed, not this one.  A lot of water may flow under the bridge between now and then.

[SG]

The option to buy could be assuming Fulham agree to sell.  We could refuse that and sell him to another club for more.  Unless you know all the terms the contract could be written in many different ways.  I suspect it's all to do with FFP.

Exactly right - an option to buy does not mean we have to sell him to Napoli at the end of the season

[Craven_Chris]

Has anyone seen anything reliable on how much the loan fee is and how much the option is?

The figure of EUR17m is being thrown around a lot for the option, but I see some people saying that is actually a EUR7m loan fee with a EUR10m option?

Im interested in what the benefit is to the current seasons financial accounts because as things stand, I think Fulham are looking at losses greater than £50m for the season...and if thats the case, Im worried they will need to try and sell Tosin before the window shuts to try and balance the books a bit and not be an FFP disaster!

You are the one who estimates these things and very cogently. However, any FFP disaster or triumph surely only applies after the January window has closed, not this one.  A lot of water may flow under the bridge between now and then.

Thats a good point, any sale would not have to be tonight. But I do worry that, at some point this year, we will need another big sale, and I cant really see who else it would be apart from Tosin.

[Craven_Chris]

The option to buy could be assuming Fulham agree to sell.  We could refuse that and sell him to another club for more.  Unless you know all the terms the contract could be written in many different ways.  I suspect it's all to do with FFP.

Exactly right - an option to buy does not mean we have to sell him to Napoli at the end of the season

My understanding is that an option to buy means that Napoli can trigger the sale at the pre-agreed price. We are entitled to also accept other bids from other clubs, and it may be that if those clubs offer Anguissa better personal terms than Napoli, he may choose them instead. But we can't turn down an offer from Napoli at the price agreed.

I could be wrong but thats how I thought it worked.

[b+w geezer]

Thats a good point, any sale would not have to be tonight. But I do worry that, at some point this year, we will need another big sale, and I cant really see who else it would be apart from Tosin.

No other young players who look hot?

[Statto]

If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark. 

[WolverineFFC]

If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark. 

The other part which I believe is not understood is the impact of salary on the decision making. I think the players actual salaries are probably much more debatable and probably inflated by agents for obvious reasons.

[Twig]

If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark. 

The other part which I believe is not understood is the impact of salary on the decision making. I think the players actual salaries are probably much more debatable and probably inflated by agents for obvious reasons.

Agree with both of you. I always treat posts claiming to have calculated our FFP situation with several pinches of salt.

[Craven_Chris]

If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark.

It could easily be the case that the FFP estimates including my own, are way out and that is the easiest explanation, I hope it it the correct one.

It could also be the case that the club thought they would get a big lump sum for Anguissa and made deals (highly structured to move the financial impact out of the 21/22 season) on the assumption that Anguissa would fund them, and address any further shortfalls. Perhaps Anguissa didn't raise what they thought, and they will then be forced to sell a further asset to make it up, which is my concern.

But one thing we do know if that, with a similar squad to the one in place at the moment (actually slightly smaller) and first year parachute payments in place, Fulham lost £45m in 19/20 after selling Ryan Sess for £25m and after loaning out both Seri and Anguissa. The operating losses were close to £75m that year and its hard to see, at the moment, why this season would be financially better. Its reasonable to wonder how the club is going to address that level of loss (even is the answer is that our generous owner will just absorb it).

[WolverineFFC]

If we were so screwed that we had to sell Tosin, why would we be buying Wilson, and Muniz, and potentially another CM and RB (which Silva confirmed we're after)? Why would we be loaning out Anguissa for minimal short-term financial benefit instead of trying to extract a lump sum fee? Why wouldn't we also be offloading Seri, rather than making him an integral part of the team? It just doesn't stack up at all. I think the simple explanation is these highly pessimistic, but highly speculative, estimates of our FFP position are quite far wide of the mark.

It could easily be the case that the FFP estimates including my own, are way out and that is the easiest explanation, I hope it it the correct one.

It could also be the case that the club thought they would get a big lump sum for Anguissa and made deals (highly structured to move the financial impact out of the 21/22 season) on the assumption that Anguissa would fund them, and address any further shortfalls. Perhaps Anguissa didn't raise what they thought, and they will then be forced to sell a further asset to make it up, which is my concern.

But one thing we do know if that, with a similar squad to the one in place at the moment (actually slightly smaller) and first year parachute payments in place, Fulham lost £45m in 19/20 after selling Ryan Sess for £25m and after loaning out both Seri and Anguissa. The operating losses were close to £75m that year and its hard to see, at the moment, why this season would be financially better. Its reasonable to wonder how the club is going to address that level of loss (even is the answer is that our generous owner will just absorb it).

But they also purchased BDR, Cav, and Hector. Each were purchased for more individually than the total transfer spend this season has been. Add in the Knock loan/sale, not sure how that was figured and you have a lot more outgoing. I doubt the club have brought in as much this season, but the sales of AK, MLM, and StefJo generated income also. The offloading of KMac, Betts, and likely Christie are not insignificant either.

I hear what you are saying, but I have a good bit of optimism the Mitro extension was also part of manipulation for FFP and the numbers for FZA, etc are all part of a bigger financial picture to ensure compliance with FFP.

[Craven_Chris]

All good points Wolverine, I am fairly confident that Fulham won't actually breach FFP this season. I think my worries are twofold

I) That the Anguissa sale didn't go as well as expected and a second sale is needed and
Ii) we meet FFP despite big losses because last year was profitable, but we then constrain ourselves for the rest of the 3 year assessment period.

Pure speculation of course though!

[Caedal]

I'm pretty sure parachute payments have gone up by 20m-30 for the first relegation year since the last time we were relegated... but I looked online and couldn't find any confirmation of what they are for this year

Plus not to mention that we received 145m for being in the premier league last season

[I Ronic]

I believe we haven't seen the best of Frank. Dembele no1 didnt' show his best for us till late in his Fulham career. the Championship isn't a division that best suits his skill set. Extending his contract and loaning him out for the season makes perfect sense.

[WolverineFFC]

All good points Wolverine, I am fairly confident that Fulham won't actually breach FFP this season. I think my worries are twofold

I) That the Anguissa sale didn't go as well as expected and a second sale is needed and
Ii) we meet FFP despite big losses because last year was profitable, but we then constrain ourselves for the rest of the 3 year assessment period.

Pure speculation of course though!

The speculation is what makes it fun! No consequences to us being wrong.

I think the Khan's are astute enough financially to figure in some of the issues with the FZA parameters with their planning. Wouldn't be surprised if it impacts some of the decisions made today though. Maybe loans instead of purchases.

To the second point I can see your concern, but if the club are the top flight again next season it is less of an issue.

[b+w geezer]

Alastair Mackintosh is a qualified accountant with huge experience of transfer windows, and has access to a load of info we can only guess.  So while it's fun to discuss this stuff, I feel we can let him do the worrying at the end of the day. (Plus that day will be 31 Jan, not August).

[rebel]

Alastair Mackintosh is a qualified accountant with huge experience of transfer windows, and has access to a load of info we can only guess.  So while it's fun to discuss this stuff, I feel we can let him do the worrying at the end of the day. (Plus that day will be 31 Jan, not August).

Yes, he also has a 'little black book', that's where Magath came from, one of his many contacts.

[b+w geezer]

Yes, he also has a 'little black book', that's where Magath came from, one of his many contacts.

As you imply, he should maybe have stuck to the accountancy side of football.