This story is on BBC sport https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59025887
It is about a banner displayed by Palace fans at their game with Newcastle. A complaint was made and police are now investigating. Really??? Is there no freedom of speech any more? I know for certain that crimes are reported and no police time is spent investigating them even when there is overwhelming evidence to catch the perpetrators of crimes. So, to spend any amount of time on an issue such as this is plain insulting and an affront to tax payers.
Most of them are pretty factual in fairness, I mean beheadings form part of their constitution. It's also irrefutable fact that they chopped up a journalist in their embassy and so murder, censorship, civil rights abuses and persecution are all there. And I think almost all the 9/11 bombers were Saudi Arabian too. For me the only controversial one should be terrorism, I mean let's face it terrorists are of all nationalities and so to label a country as terrorists is maybe going a bit far. Though there is the whole subject of state-sponsored terrorism........
I think the police have a duty to investigate alleged racist incidents as a result of the political prioritisation of such matters over others. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything more than a quick look at the allegation and a decision that there is nothing requiring anything more.
If the complaint is literally about nothing more than the banner as shown in today's newspapers, it will quickly be dismissed.
Personally, I thought is was spot on and evidence that many of us are fully aware of the Saudi regime's record and policies.
Quote from: Oakeshott on October 24, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
I think the police have a duty to investigate alleged racist incidents as a result of the political prioritisation of such matters over others. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything more than a quick look at the allegation and a decision that there is nothing requiring anything more.
If the complaint is literally about nothing more than the banner as shown in today's newspapers, it will quickly be dismissed.
Personally, I thought is was spot on and evidence that many of us are fully aware of the Saudi regime's record and policies.
Shame they don't attach more priority to daily crime, sounds like they are prioritising this down to political expediency.
Why is a crime of this nature (and one can see the facts immediately) prioritised over, say, crimes which cost the victim a couple of thousand pounds or where multiple families are subjected to criminal and antisocial behaviour. I have knowledge of both and no police action was taken. However, beat the political drum and it immediately gets prioritised and high level police attention.
I wonder why it's a priority over investigating those officers who tasered an old man in the street, kicked him in the back and smashed his face into the pavement.
I think that all terrorism should be put on a war footing and that the authorities should act in the same way they would have done against Nazis in this country in WW2.
There that should get this thread banned.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/unhappy-cardiff-city-contact-police-21921227.amp
Is the Palace thing a surprise? We live in a mad world at the moment...
Quote from: filham on October 24, 2021, 10:33:02 AM
I think that all terrorism should be put on a war footing and that the authorities should act in the same way they would have done against Nazis in this country in WW2.
There that should get this thread banned.
As a matter of interest, why do you want this thread banned?
It was, in my view, a political protest (arguably tenuously religious perhaps) and not a racist one because it was directed at the actions of the Saudi state not at people of their ethnicity. In the same way, protests could be directed at many other state of dubious ethics for different reasons. (e.g. Hungary, Brazil, even Australia). That said, if a complaint of "racism" has been made the police have to consider it, given how conspicuous it was.
The question still remains why does this necessitate investigation when the police don't even bother to investigate other crimes which really do affect the law abiding majority.
"they are prioritising this down to political expediency."
The police are under political direction, in that the Met Commissioner and Chief Constables are accountable to elected mayors, police commissioners etc. And it is the job of those elected mayors etc, who are politicians, to set priorities that are consistent with the law, and the job of the police to work to those priorities.
Yes, dealing with racist issues has been prioritised, and given the disgusting abuse some members of minority ethnic communities face, many would say that is appropriate. But with finite policing resources, making one thing a particular priority always means giving less resources to other things, which some might see as more important.
These days it is particularly difficult for politicians, I think. Any problem has the potential to become "news" and politicians seem invariably to feel they must have "answers". As a result, the police all too often get the criticism that should really be focused on politicians. If at times we think even a small amount of resource is being used wastefully, as may well be the case with the Palace suporters' banner, it is the price we all have to pay for the police and justice system we have. If we take the view that, isolated examples apart, the balance of priorities is wrong, or the political leadership incompetent, the remedy is in our hands as voters.
Quote from: Motspur Park on October 24, 2021, 11:50:16 AM
The question still remains why does this necessitate investigation when the police don't even bother to investigate other crimes which really do affect the law abiding majority.
I think the question they should be asking is "was it racist?". If so, investigate it. If not (as I believe), move on. Whether political protests are acceptable within football grounds is a question for the clubs themselves and the football authorities. I doubt if they'd be well-disposed towards this one as it was a bit close to home and may trigger a reaction if it continues at other grounds. .
Quote from: Oakeshott on October 24, 2021, 11:53:47 AM
"they are prioritising this down to political expediency."
The police are under political direction, in that the Met Commissioner and Chief Constables are accountable to elected mayors, police commissioners etc. And it is the job of those elected mayors etc, who are politicians, to set priorities that are consistent with the law, and the job of the police to work to those priorities.
Yes, dealing with racist issues has been prioritised, and given the disgusting abuse some members of minority ethnic communities face, many would say that is appropriate. But with finite policing resources, making one thing a particular priority always means giving less resources to other things, which some might see as more important.
These days it is particularly difficult for politicians, I think. Any problem has the potential to become "news" and politicians seem invariably to feel they must have "answers". As a result, the police all too often get the criticism that should really be focused on politicians. If at times we think even a small amount of resource is being used wastefully, as may well be the case with the Palace suporters' banner, it is the price we all have to pay for the police and justice system we have. If we take the view that, isolated examples apart, the balance of priorities is wrong, or the political leadership incompetent, the remedy is in our hands as voters.
You are no doubt correct and whilst I asked the question, it is something we already know. The issue I am highlighting is that it is a farce because crimes against everyday people of all nationalities are being ignored unless they bring race or religion into the equation. Even alleged crimes where it is an insult to warrant time being spent on them receive significant amounts of resources whereas actual crimes get given a crime reference number and no police time is spent on them because of the finite amount of time and costs available. It is a modern day scandal and something that politicians should be held to account for but won't be.
Quote from: Motspur Park on October 24, 2021, 09:07:47 AM
This story is on BBC sport https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59025887
It is about a banner displayed by Palace fans at their game with Newcastle. A complaint was made and police are now investigating. Really??? Is there no freedom of speech any more? I know for certain that crimes are reported and no police time is spent investigating them even when there is overwhelming evidence to catch the perpetrators of crimes. So, to spend any amount of time on an issue such as this is plain insulting and an affront to tax payers.
What's more, is that the banner is not lying and says the truth. I think the gavvers should spend more of our money on real crime which this aint, and weeding out the wrong uns from within their own force.
I can't see what there is to investigate. It's not racism to tell the truth.
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on October 24, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
I can't see what there is to investigate. It's not racism to tell the truth.
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Quote from: Bill2 on October 24, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
Quote from: Oakeshott on October 24, 2021, 09:28:00 AM
I think the police have a duty to investigate alleged racist incidents as a result of the political prioritisation of such matters over others. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything more than a quick look at the allegation and a decision that there is nothing requiring anything more.
If the complaint is literally about nothing more than the banner as shown in today's newspapers, it will quickly be dismissed.
Personally, I thought is was spot on and evidence that many of us are fully aware of the Saudi regime's record and policies.
Shame they don't attach more priority to daily crime, sounds like they are prioritising this down to political expediency.
Unless you steal a car and then you will have about 8 coppers ,4 cars, a helicopter and a sniffer dog on your tail.
Meanwhile your home is getting burgled and they dont want to know.
>Palace fans make banner about a nation/racial group/government/whatever
>complaint made
>police investigate complaint
>article gets written to say complaint is investigated
>people on the internet: OmG WHy iS thIS 'CRIME' PRIoritised, its POLiTiCaL CorReCtNeSs goNE BaRMy!!!!! I oNcE hAd My Bike StoLeN iN 1987 WheRE WeRe tHe PoLiCe ThEn??!!!!!
The police investigating a complaint isn't news just because the BBC have called it news, it's just daily business. The police investigate complaints every day that most of us consider non-issues, it's just part of the job.
Come back when someones prosecuted then I'll eat my words and get the pitchforks with you, but come on stop letting outrage journalism live in your head rent free
Quote from: Jurassic Parker on October 24, 2021, 02:09:06 PM
>Palace fans make banner about a nation/racial group/government/whatever
>complaint made
>police investigate complaint
>article gets written to say complaint is investigated
>people on the internet: OmG WHy iS thIS 'CRIME' PRIoritised, its POLiTiCaL CorReCtNeSs goNE BaRMy!!!!! I oNcE hAd My Bike StoLeN iN 1987 WheRE WeRe tHe PoLiCe ThEn??!!!!!
The police investigating a complaint isn't news just because the BBC have called it news, it's just daily business. The police investigate complaints every day that most of consider non-issues, it's just part of the job.
Come back when someones prosecuted then I'll eat my words and get the pitchforks with you, but come on stop letting outrage journalism live in your head rent free
Completely missing the point. I didn't mention anything about prosecution. The issue is that this is being investigated because of political agenda whereas real crimes aren't being investigated. Not a hard concept to understand, is it?
Quote from: Motspur Park on October 24, 2021, 02:15:23 PM
Quote from: Jurassic Parker on October 24, 2021, 02:09:06 PM
>Palace fans make banner about a nation/racial group/government/whatever
>complaint made
>police investigate complaint
>article gets written to say complaint is investigated
>people on the internet: OmG WHy iS thIS 'CRIME' PRIoritised, its POLiTiCaL CorReCtNeSs goNE BaRMy!!!!! I oNcE hAd My Bike StoLeN iN 1987 WheRE WeRe tHe PoLiCe ThEn??!!!!!
The police investigating a complaint isn't news just because the BBC have called it news, it's just daily business. The police investigate complaints every day that most of consider non-issues, it's just part of the job.
Come back when someones prosecuted then I'll eat my words and get the pitchforks with you, but come on stop letting outrage journalism live in your head rent free
Completely missing the point. I didn't mention anything about prosecution. The issue is that this is being investigated because of political agenda whereas real crimes aren't being investigated. Not a hard concept to understand, is it?
No it's not. But you're missing my point.
The police investigate hundreds of complaints every day that we all consider non-issues, they have to to make sure they don't miss anything.
The only reason people care about this one is because the BBC have written an article about it, thus declaring it news.
It's just another day at the office.
With that said, I take big issues with the police force currently and we all know they have massive issues. Investigating a complaint isn't one of them, that's their job.
Are we meant to say police force these days? As I typed it I heard Simon Pegg from Hot Fuzz in my head there :005:
"Police say no further action will be taken after a banner displayed by Crystal Palace fans targeted the Saudi Arabian-led takeover of Newcastle United."
BBC website.
As always all but certain.
Quote from: Holders on October 24, 2021, 11:57:29 AM
I think the question they should be asking is "was it racist?". If so, investigate it. If not (as I believe), move on. Whether political protests are acceptable within football grounds is a question for the clubs themselves and the football authorities. I doubt if they'd be well-disposed towards this one as it was a bit close to home and may trigger a reaction if it continues at other grounds. .
The genie is well and truly out the bottle for political statements with the ever-increasing Remembrance Day profile at football and the ongoing Taking the Knee.
Quote from: Jurassic Parker on October 24, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Are we meant to say police force these days? As I typed it I heard Simon Pegg from Hot Fuzz in my head there :005:
Change the O in force to A would be more accurate
Motspur Park, perhaps you might have missed the point that JP made, inasmuch that ALL complaints, however trivial, can be subject to being investigated, and without understanding either the priority or resources that have been assigned to this Investigation, then to claim this has an elevated priority over more serious crime maybe, perhaps, jumping the speculation gun somewhat, and therefore, if a prosecution should follow that might be the more appropriate time to consider the time and resources are being wasted.
Quote from: Logicalman on October 25, 2021, 08:12:28 PM
Motspur Park, perhaps you might have missed the point that JP made, inasmuch that ALL complaints, however trivial, can be subject to being investigated, and without understanding either the priority or resources that have been assigned to this Investigation, then to claim this has an elevated priority over more serious crime maybe, perhaps, jumping the speculation gun somewhat, and therefore, if a prosecution should follow that might be the more appropriate time to consider the time and resources are being wasted.
Perhaps I didn't misunderstand. It has nothing to do with potential outcomes but everything do with what is actually happening every day in this country. The police are instructed to and make decisions NOT to investigate actual crimes. A crime reference number is issued and you are then informed that no further action is to be taken.....even when there is overwhelming evidence to be able to catch and hold a criminal to account. The point that I made was that in the case of the banner, the matter was investigated. This had nothing to do with the case ultimately being dropped but highlighting an outrageous fact that actual crimes are ignored but so called political incidents get time, money and resources spent on them.
Again, not difficult to understand, is it?
Is that an actual fact or a point of view?
I am absolutely not having a go at you here, but would be interested to read up on how this is happening etc.
Facts. Based on several incidents through dealing with my job. Not digging the police out because I help them when I can but frustrates the hell out of me trying to get justice for my clients only to learn that an administrator decides cases won't be pursued.
Ah, I see. Cheers for that.
Quote from: ffcne on October 24, 2021, 01:01:59 PM
Unless you steal a car and then you will have about 8 coppers ,4 cars, a helicopter and a sniffer dog on your tail.
Are you speaking from personal experience, here? Did they catch up with you? Just asking.
Quote from: Motspur Park on October 25, 2021, 09:03:52 PM
Facts. Based on several incidents through dealing with my job. Not digging the police out because I help them when I can but frustrates the hell out of me trying to get justice for my clients only to learn that an administrator decides cases won't be pursued.
Are you referring to the CPS?
They are not Bobbies on the beat old fashioned coppers anymore,they are political correct officers who are taught and instructed that their main priority is to catch people who call someone by a name they think is offensive.
Catching actual criminals is way down the line,82% of all burglaries unsolved,incredible.
Old boy lives down the lane from us burgled twice in 6 months,first time took them 3 weeks to come round to him,in that time all evidence disappeared.
They are frightened to stop and search now for knives,because it might cause an offence,and so daily you read of young men stabbing each other to death.
An instance at a shop entrance where I live last week,a lass standing in doorway of a shop texting on phone,bloke asked her to move to get in shop,she carried on texting,so he said move you silly tart or whatever and brushed past her.
5 minutes in shop and she returned with copper
and he gets a lecture on how to talk to people.
He lost the plot and told copper shouldn't you be out doing more important things like catching criminals instead of lecturing the public in trivial nonsense,in the meantime her that caused it all by not moving out of doorway is standing there smirking as he gets lecture from Political Correct Copper.
They are a joke.
If Cressida Dick and Priti Patel were men,they would have lost their jobs by now.
The fact that the banner made it onto our so called 'free media' and then worms its way here, there and everywhere is far more worrying. The mere suggestion that there was anything wrong with the banner is just as frightening as the regime the banner is itself questionning. Cancel culture offers us nothing more than censorship, misinformation and propaganda and we all should resist it no matter how many times you see your stuff removed because it does not fit an agenda. The police have been politicised as there is nothing new in that.
We all know that the football authorities are not very virtuous when it comes to who they share their beds with, whose blood money they'll gladly receive, but they do not like to be reminded of their sins and that is their problem. As fans we should be under no illusions about what is wrong with the game and that hypocrisy solves nothing.
Quote from: Logicalman on October 26, 2021, 12:20:08 AM
Quote from: Motspur Park on October 25, 2021, 09:03:52 PM
Facts. Based on several incidents through dealing with my job. Not digging the police out because I help them when I can but frustrates the hell out of me trying to get justice for my clients only to learn that an administrator decides cases won't be pursued.
Are you referring to the CPS?
No. These incidents will not get anywhere near CPS because they aren't investigated. I repeat that crimes are committed and reported. The person reporting is issued with a crime reference number. Then, as an update, you are informed that the case is closed and not being investigated.
