Wolves Post-Match Thread and FOF MOTM Fulham 3v2 Wolves = Cairney

[bog]

I did not expect to win. I am still getting over the 9-0 at Molyneux back in 1959. We now have a proper penalty taker, TC's tackle that led to the 3rd goal was phenomenal, probably the best he has ever made and the whole team was battling for the win at the end, I like to see team spirit hard at it. For once we got some breaks with VAR. A much needed win and a good display against a good side.     

[The Rock]

10 points clear of the drop zone.

Last year after round 13 we were only 8 points clear.

[jarv]

TC.  Calming influence in midfield, always needed at any level you play at.

[Jaguar2013]

Thought both penalties were justified, Cairney played the ball onto the defender so clear penalty. Wilson's was also a penalty, don't understand what took VAR so long to make the decision. Thought Ream was ok last night but he did look as though he was still affected by jet lag. In the first half when Ream was playing out from the back he seemed reluctant to play the easy ball to Robinson who was in acres of space and this happened a few times.Considering the success we had early on from attacks which included the goal I thought we missed a trick there.

[Matt10]

Thought our passing was slick and crisp at times, but Wolves had a better game plan. They pressed our defence and we were lucky quite a few times.
Cairney was man of the match for me, but playing with Jiminez was like playing with 10 men. We needed to press them like they pressed us. Regardless of Vini's over zealousness, he had little time to make an impact and at least had a presence up front where we had none with Raul.
We are a few players short of being mid table, so results like tonight give us a bit of much needed breathing space.
As for the penalties, I couldn't believe VAR took so long to concur with the original decision. Regardless of whether the Wolves player touched the ball, Tom played it with his right and was heading further into the box. It was a foul and a definite penalty. Likewise theirs and ditto with Wilson. I honestly couldn't believe the comments from the ridiculous Smith. We are not judging by past standards of penalties... we are judging by today and those decisions are given week in week out.
COYW.

This Raul slating is just always unfounded to me. Do you not see him hold the ball up constantly? He doesn't lose possession often, maybe twice the entire match. However, his winning the ball is so significant to our attacks. Just compare him to Vini and you'll see just how bad Vini is compared to him.

The issue I'm starting to have with Raul is he is just too unselfish and too nice. He wants to get rid of the ball to safety as soon as he can. He is trying to play too many slick 1-2 passes. To say it's like playing 10 men though is just far off the mark and I'd suggest rewatching the match, watching Jimenez specifically and see if the same statement comes back.

Be assured I am not scapegoating him but when you say his hold up play.....when? The game just passed him by. Admittedly, a tough ask against their backs, but when we went forward, there was no striker to seek out. He was nowhere to be seen. Jogging around and seemed disinterested. We do not have options at the moment but I seriously cannot believe we scouted this guy. He may suit a different style of attack to what we provide but whatever the question, he isn't the answer.

To be honest, I am not sure why we recruited him as well. However, if Silva says his strikers aren't just goal scorers and they do so much more - then Raul fits that bill. Every time I get into this topic, it's as if I'm saying we don't need another striker - that could not be further from the truth. I am being realistic though in watching him play and I am not ignoring his good and bad.

Hold up play is simply maintaining possession and letting others into the attack. That is priority number one for our striker in the sequence of the attack. Note I said sequence, not the endpoint, so there has to be a beginning. Raul does this the best of our strikers - and it was shown in the Wolves match:

Ironically, the first one he controls, but can't maintain control with Bueno right on him:
https://streamable.com/uvaycy

If Raul doesn't put a body on Kelman, Iwobi's shot could be blocked here. If he was disinterested, he wouldn't even bother.
https://streamable.com/378oct

Chance here with some extra effort trying to pull the ball back to Andreas, but gets blocked/saved.
https://streamable.com/27wa1a

It's basic work, but this is hold-up play because it starts the sequence to a move that didn't finish correctly due to the final ball.
https://streamable.com/8zr0tz

Shows to the ball and finds a pass back. This is how we overload that left side to free up the opposite, with a better pass and control, we're able to switch it as Raul has dragged Bueno out of position.
https://streamable.com/j5ezli

The little flicks that I am not a fan of, but I know he's trying to find Iwobi. Raul doesn't give up and takes out Doherty, no foul called though.
https://streamable.com/43csql

He stays wide so we have enough bodies to drag out of position, so we can then switch the play - your basic overloading. In the end, this is the only 1 of 2 times he had time to turn and face goal and take on someone 1v1. He tried, but was doubled up and couldn't make anything of it.
https://streamable.com/trrs2v

Again, hold-up play in the most basic nature. Bueno is all over him again, and he does well to keep possession.
https://streamable.com/1i5iai

Same again, but a bit more difficult first touch, and does great to take it out of the air and keep his body in front of Bueno. Would rather he get on his horse right away and not complain of course.
https://streamable.com/gj64qv

This is where he's annoyed me. The only other time he gets to face goal, and he tries a complicated cross ball to either Iwobi or Andreas, which is promptly cut out. Being unselfish to a fault here, and he needs to just have a go at goal.
https://streamable.com/oef79i

Good effort here to collect the wayward pass from Wolves, and start another sequence of possession.
https://streamable.com/9ijema

The run off the ball drags Bueno out of position and opens up a shot for Iwobi. Basic, but necessary.
https://streamable.com/0n7b0h

It's subtle, but a good pass back allows Iwobi's momentum to switch the point of attack.
https://streamable.com/wsz5fs

Moving into a good position here to drag Kilman, which works as Raul's flicked header sets up Andreas, before TC's shot is blocked.
https://streamable.com/zxert4

Not the best first touch, but controls it enough and we keep possession.
https://streamable.com/mogj0d

GJ says it's not a good pass back to Andreas, but it's clear that Andreas gets two-handed pushed out of the way, so the return pass is never going to reach him as he's off the path.
https://streamable.com/uqqdhd

Brilliant soft touch that reaches TC in-stride and had the potential to start a good counter.
https://streamable.com/q2ok76

Completely dragged Bueno out of position and created chaos for him to get tangled up with Toti - thus allowing Iwobi's chance. Last involvement of the match for Raul.
https://streamable.com/aw9yjd

I hope that helps provide insight into my position with Raul. As a coach, a former college player, and a striker as well, these involvements cannot go unnoticed by me. He rarely loses the ball, and he consistently holds it up and then finds ways for us to keep possession. He's what we have at the moment, and until someone else wants to play striker for Fulham, I don't think we should discredit the crucial positive moments that he supplies by providing blanket statements and pushing narratives that don't line up. Not you specifically at all, but more so just the general narrative when it comes to Raul.

For the record, I 1000% want a new striker in January. I think that's okay to say because it's not tearing someone else down, it's simply wanting another potential goalscorer - because that is what is going to matter at the very end of these sequences.

TC for me without a doubt. We needed goals, and he was in the thick of it all. Have to give kudos to Silva for using this set-up of some strong possession players in Willian-TC-AP-Iwobi ; that is by far the strongest we have looked on the ball.

I thought I was the only one that thought that, he played well tonight, holds the ball very well, hardly gave it away, his first touch is very good, agree likes the little flicks and one set up Iwobi who made the keeper save well when through on goal.
My only criticism if you can call it that is wish he would get in the box more!

100% agree. He needs to get into the box as soon as he can because he tends to hold the ball up in deeper areas, and even some wide spots, then doesn't race into the box.

I just don't get how that hard work to hold onto the ball, or to get a crucial touch, that keeps or starts our momentum in possession is completely nullified just because he's not scoring or having chances. It's this same old boring narrative that fans create themselves as if that's doing work against the team. In fact, Silva says strikers in his system do more than just score goals. So if our striker is doing something helpful, but can't score goals, it should be seen as that.

If you compare Raul's output to his former teammate Hwang, he comes off pretty unfavourably. Hwang was a bit of a menace while the Wolves CBs looked pretty comfortable against Raul. He just seems to coast, doesn't do anything with any real intensity. When he had a chance to dribble at the defence he looked like he didn't believe he could get through. Air-shot in the first minute when he should probably have scored.

I can't make that direct comparison when we have a lone striker and they have two forwards. Completely different profiles of Raul vs Hwang as well. You're right, he looked unsure with his 1v1, but in the 30 or so touches, that was a sequence that rarely came about. Regardless, I agree, he should be more aggressive. At least he drove into the box, for once, and tried something - who knows what could have happened. I appreciate him trying something further in tackling Lemina even if it ended up being a lost cause.

The air-shot was the issue I've had with him being unselfish. He can at least try to take a shot, even if the ball is slightly behind him, but instead tries to flick it for a teammate.

[WindyCity]

Voted for Iwobi.  Felt he was most impactful player in the side.  Scored a nice opening goal and almost had a second, a great keeper save preventing.  Always lively on the ball, made a number of nice cuts from the wing into middle of pitch, creating offensive opportunities. 

Honorable mention to Cairney, Cantstandya, Robinson, Bassey, Willian.

[btffc]

Tom Cairney showed his class this game.

Bassey very strong at CB this game. Wonder if him and Tosin/Diop will partner at some point.

I do think Tim Ream is struggling at the moment 😕

Your just saying that cos he gave away a penalty, other then that he was solid as usual today,,,,

He had an overall decent game but his lack of pace gave him a yellow card, which could very easily have become a red with the penalty situation. It would have been harsh, but Ream's lack of pace is a problem, especially without Palhinha to protect out back four,

Ream should have seen red either way for the penalty incident. He was last man when Hwang was clear on goal. Outside the box that's a straight red. Inside the box it's a penalty and his second yellow. Luckily I don't think VAR can add a yellow in that situation but had they judged it to be outside the box it should have been straight red.

[Lighthouse]

Old fogeys like me have to realise that the game has changed and is changing. I read and am reading all the views on the penalties. There is now no doubt in my mind that VAR has encouraged the attacking players in the area to leave their trailing leg dangling in the hope it is caught by the defender. The Fulham penalties were very much of that ilk. Playing in the area at speed and leaving a trailing leg in the hope that it is touched by a defender.

I see it week in and week out and that is the way the game is now. Also interested that Ream has come in for polite criticism. May be interesting to see Bassey play in his preferred side with the pick of any the other three alongside him. 

[JimOG]

I did not expect to win. I am still getting over the 9-0 at Molyneux back in 1959. We now have a proper penalty taker, TC's tackle that led to the 3rd goal was phenomenal, probably the best he has ever made and the whole team was battling for the win at the end, I like to see team spirit hard at it. For once we got some breaks with VAR. A much needed win and a good display against a good side.     

Me too! I was at primary school in Hammersmith and remember that result. How could my hero, Macedo, let in 9 goals??

[perry geyton]

Perry Geyton

Your just saying that cos he gave away a penalty, other then that he was solid as usual today,,,,
[/quote]

I'm a huge Tim Ream fan but the penalty was not his only mistake last night.

When Hwang ran through the middle in the first half after a wayward pass from Reed, Ream was slow to get across/react and (rightly) chose to pull out of a challenge to avoid a possible red card. A quicker player would have covered in time to make a clean challenge.

In the second half Ream lost possession by the touch line right near the half way line. Wolves countered down our left side and only an excellent last ditch covering tackle by Castagne prevented a tap-in for Wolves.

As I say, love Tim and Silva won't drop him for the foreseeable future I imagine BUT I'm keen to see a pairing of Bassey and Diop, or Tosin if he re-signs and gets back to his best form
[/quote]


Fair enough and that day is inevitably coming considering his age, for me tho he's still our best center back, all players make mistakes here and there but for some reason Tim seems to get knit picked for em more then others, I can also reflect on all the things he did brilliantly last night,
Personally Diop frightens me at times on the ball

[Chi_FFC]

Tim most certainly does not get nit picked more than others here...in fact it's actually the opposite (in my opinion this is because of his long tenure with the club/popularity and the fact expectations were so low for him after our previous relegation seasons in PL). The fact that so many are starting to question his position in the starting 11 suggests just how rough he's looked so far this season.

[Deeping_white]

Tom Cairney showed his class this game.

Bassey very strong at CB this game. Wonder if him and Tosin/Diop will partner at some point.

I do think Tim Ream is struggling at the moment 😕

Your just saying that cos he gave away a penalty, other then that he was solid as usual today,,,,

He had an overall decent game but his lack of pace gave him a yellow card, which could very easily have become a red with the penalty situation. It would have been harsh, but Ream's lack of pace is a problem, especially without Palhinha to protect out back four,

Ream should have seen red either way for the penalty incident. He was last man when Hwang was clear on goal. Outside the box that's a straight red. Inside the box it's a penalty and his second yellow. Luckily I don't think VAR can add a yellow in that situation but had they judged it to be outside the box it should have been straight red.

It's no longer an automatic red card for being last man and it hasn't been since 2016

[btffc]

Tom Cairney showed his class this game.

Bassey very strong at CB this game. Wonder if him and Tosin/Diop will partner at some point.

I do think Tim Ream is struggling at the moment 😕

Your just saying that cos he gave away a penalty, other then that he was solid as usual today,,,,

He had an overall decent game but his lack of pace gave him a yellow card, which could very easily have become a red with the penalty situation. It would have been harsh, but Ream's lack of pace is a problem, especially without Palhinha to protect out back four,

Ream should have seen red either way for the penalty incident. He was last man when Hwang was clear on goal. Outside the box that's a straight red. Inside the box it's a penalty and his second yellow. Luckily I don't think VAR can add a yellow in that situation but had they judged it to be outside the box it should have been straight red.

It's no longer an automatic red card for being last man and it hasn't been since 2016

It's an automatic yellow if it is in the box and Ream was on a yellow so he would have gotten his second yellow and been sent off.

[Deeping_white]

Tom Cairney showed his class this game.

Bassey very strong at CB this game. Wonder if him and Tosin/Diop will partner at some point.

I do think Tim Ream is struggling at the moment 😕

Your just saying that cos he gave away a penalty, other then that he was solid as usual today,,,,

He had an overall decent game but his lack of pace gave him a yellow card, which could very easily have become a red with the penalty situation. It would have been harsh, but Ream's lack of pace is a problem, especially without Palhinha to protect out back four,

Ream should have seen red either way for the penalty incident. He was last man when Hwang was clear on goal. Outside the box that's a straight red. Inside the box it's a penalty and his second yellow. Luckily I don't think VAR can add a yellow in that situation but had they judged it to be outside the box it should have been straight red.

It's no longer an automatic red card for being last man and it hasn't been since 2016

It's an automatic yellow if it is in the box and Ream was on a yellow so he would have gotten his second yellow and been sent off.

No it's not - only a yellow if it's judged to be a DOGSO incident by the referee (which in this case it wasn't since Hwang wasn't in control of the ball, going away from goal on an angle and Robinson was also there on the cover), with official guidance below:

DENYING A GOAL OR AN OBVIOUS GOAL-SCORING OPPORTUNITY (DOGSO)

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball or a challenge for the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.), the offending player must be sent off. The following must be considered:

distance between the offence and the goal
general direction of the play
likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
location and number of defenders

[Motspur Park]

Tom Cairney showed his class this game.

Bassey very strong at CB this game. Wonder if him and Tosin/Diop will partner at some point.

I do think Tim Ream is struggling at the moment 😕

Your just saying that cos he gave away a penalty, other then that he was solid as usual today,,,,

He had an overall decent game but his lack of pace gave him a yellow card, which could very easily have become a red with the penalty situation. It would have been harsh, but Ream's lack of pace is a problem, especially without Palhinha to protect out back four,

Ream should have seen red either way for the penalty incident. He was last man when Hwang was clear on goal. Outside the box that's a straight red. Inside the box it's a penalty and his second yellow. Luckily I don't think VAR can add a yellow in that situation but had they judged it to be outside the box it should have been straight red.

It's no longer an automatic red card for being last man and it hasn't been since 2016

It's an automatic yellow if it is in the box and Ream was on a yellow so he would have gotten his second yellow and been sent off.

No it's not - only a yellow if it's judged to be a DOGSO incident by the referee (which in this case it wasn't since Hwang wasn't in control of the ball, going away from goal on an angle and Robinson was also there on the cover), with official guidance below:

DENYING A GOAL OR AN OBVIOUS GOAL-SCORING OPPORTUNITY (DOGSO)

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball or a challenge for the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.), the offending player must be sent off. The following must be considered:

distance between the offence and the goal
general direction of the play
likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
location and number of defenders

I admit being totally blinkered when it comes to Fulham decisions but I cannot comprehend anybody other than Wolves fans (and their manager) suggesting that Ream should have been sent off or booked for that.

[General]

Have to admit, whilst cairney was impressive in his cameo start and clearly was the difference for our second goal, the one player I saw on the pitch that I felt made a huge difference was that of Harrison Reed, who we've dropped this season to try and accommodate other players.

He was always at wolves players heels, he played sensible but still relatively forward thinking and ambitious balls, was tenacious in the tackle and popped up in the right spots. I think we really need to bring him back in to the starting lineup alongside palhinha, I think the two of them work well.

I'd also put Iwobi on the right wing, Pereira through the middle, they both had some really decent interchanges with one another showing they may be forming a good understanding of how each other plays.

His pressure unsettled wolves and also meant that we were competitive higher up the pitch, giving out defence a bit more time to breathe and our attack more momentum.

My thoughts at least.

[Chi_FFC]

Reed was better in the second half but was quite poor in the first. He nearly gifted Wolves 2 goals. 

[TC's Sporran]

Tom Cairney showed his class this game.

Bassey very strong at CB this game. Wonder if him and Tosin/Diop will partner at some point.

I do think Tim Ream is struggling at the moment 😕

Your just saying that cos he gave away a penalty, other then that he was solid as usual today,,,,

He had an overall decent game but his lack of pace gave him a yellow card, which could very easily have become a red with the penalty situation. It would have been harsh, but Ream's lack of pace is a problem, especially without Palhinha to protect out back four,

Ream should have seen red either way for the penalty incident. He was last man when Hwang was clear on goal. Outside the box that's a straight red. Inside the box it's a penalty and his second yellow. Luckily I don't think VAR can add a yellow in that situation but had they judged it to be outside the box it should have been straight red.

It's no longer an automatic red card for being last man and it hasn't been since 2016

It's an automatic yellow if it is in the box and Ream was on a yellow so he would have gotten his second yellow and been sent off.

No it's not - only a yellow if it's judged to be a DOGSO incident by the referee (which in this case it wasn't since Hwang wasn't in control of the ball, going away from goal on an angle and Robinson was also there on the cover), with official guidance below:

DENYING A GOAL OR AN OBVIOUS GOAL-SCORING OPPORTUNITY (DOGSO)

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball or a challenge for the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.), the offending player must be sent off. The following must be considered:

distance between the offence and the goal
general direction of the play
likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
location and number of defenders

even the co commentators get it wrong ie last man -must be a red. i heard micheal owen say that last season.

[Twig]

Have to admit, whilst cairney was impressive in his cameo start and clearly was the difference for our second goal, the one player I saw on the pitch that I felt made a huge difference was that of Harrison Reed, who we've dropped this season to try and accommodate other players.

He was always at wolves players heels, he played sensible but still relatively forward thinking and ambitious balls, was tenacious in the tackle and popped up in the right spots. I think we really need to bring him back in to the starting lineup alongside palhinha, I think the two of them work well.

I'd also put Iwobi on the right wing, Pereira through the middle, they both had some really decent interchanges with one another showing they may be forming a good understanding of how each other plays.

His pressure unsettled wolves and also meant that we were competitive higher up the pitch, giving out defence a bit more time to breathe and our attack more momentum.

My thoughts at least.

I thought Reed recovered from a very poor first half to be more solid in the second but I thought his his poor distribution and positioning was clear to see in the first half.

[btffc]

Tom Cairney showed his class this game.

Bassey very strong at CB this game. Wonder if him and Tosin/Diop will partner at some point.

I do think Tim Ream is struggling at the moment 😕

Your just saying that cos he gave away a penalty, other then that he was solid as usual today,,,,

He had an overall decent game but his lack of pace gave him a yellow card, which could very easily have become a red with the penalty situation. It would have been harsh, but Ream's lack of pace is a problem, especially without Palhinha to protect out back four,

Ream should have seen red either way for the penalty incident. He was last man when Hwang was clear on goal. Outside the box that's a straight red. Inside the box it's a penalty and his second yellow. Luckily I don't think VAR can add a yellow in that situation but had they judged it to be outside the box it should have been straight red.

It's no longer an automatic red card for being last man and it hasn't been since 2016

It's an automatic yellow if it is in the box and Ream was on a yellow so he would have gotten his second yellow and been sent off.

No it's not - only a yellow if it's judged to be a DOGSO incident by the referee (which in this case it wasn't since Hwang wasn't in control of the ball, going away from goal on an angle and Robinson was also there on the cover), with official guidance below:

DENYING A GOAL OR AN OBVIOUS GOAL-SCORING OPPORTUNITY (DOGSO)

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball or a challenge for the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.), the offending player must be sent off. The following must be considered:

distance between the offence and the goal
general direction of the play
likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
location and number of defenders

Hwang wasn't in control of the ball but as you state "likelihood of gaining control of the ball" must be considered and he was certain to gain control and get a shot off if not for the foul therefore it was a DOGSO and should have been a yellow. The ref got it wrong.