I do not see what Fulham fans see in Kevin

[hopper]

He is bad terrible a complete novice of a footballer he is not suited to premier league football and when he plays he is a liability we have had our pants well and truly pulled down . You could wait 3 years and he would still be 💩

Kevin is 23, In three years time, by the time he is 26 like Chuk is right now, he will be miles ahead of Chuk. For once we have invested in talent that has real development potential.

Big claim, Chukwueze was tearing apart Real Madrid for Villarreal a few seasons ago. If he becomes as good as Chukwueze that would be a great achievement.

[HV71]

Hope , excitement and currently a large dose of frustration

[nwg]

As I have posted separately, the 'problem' at this point is that Kevin does not appear to be learning - and/or the staff do not appear to be coaching him into learning - how to use his talents effectively.

In my post-match thread reply yesterday, I wrote: does anyone think that he watched any of the last 40 minutes and saw Chuk's activity and said to himself, "Ohhhhh...I get it."

Frankly, I do not think Kevin gets 'it', and there is no evidence that the staff are telling him to stop holding the ball for ten seconds only to be dispossessed by a single defender when one of his this-works-in-Ukraine 'cute' moves fails again. Wilson's (and others') body language after repeated dead-end possessions by Kevin has been obvious.

At the same time, Kevin lacks pace and general fitness. Each time he has had a step or been sent by a searching pass downfield, he has been caught up easily - which was the glaring difference seen in Chuk's goal-scoring run yesterday. Kevin never would have gotten to that ball, possessed it, and hit the target.

Yes, he is young, but is he young and willing? Or is he young and complacent? If he is the latter, it is incumbent on Marco and his staff to break him.

[acji]

He is bad terrible a complete novice of a footballer he is not suited to premier league football and when he plays he is a liability we have had our pants well and truly pulled down . You could wait 3 years and he would still be 💩

Kevin is 23, In three years time, by the time he is 26 like Chuk is right now, he will be miles ahead of Chuk. For once we have invested in talent that has real development potential.

Big claim, Chukwueze was tearing apart Real Madrid for Villarreal a few seasons ago. If he becomes as good as Chukwueze that would be a great achievement.

Indeed.

Kevin has better footwork and dribbling, but does not have as much positional and situational vision.

Those two can be more inate in some, but also they are to do with experience of playing at a properly high level, which Kevin is now getting and crucially, and at the risk of being boring, brain development.
The prefrontal cortex and parietal lobes—responsible for spatial skils and  planning only fully mature in the mid-20s.

Basically Kevin should develop what he lacks.

[hopper]

He is bad terrible a complete novice of a footballer he is not suited to premier league football and when he plays he is a liability we have had our pants well and truly pulled down . You could wait 3 years and he would still be 💩

Kevin is 23, In three years time, by the time he is 26 like Chuk is right now, he will be miles ahead of Chuk. For once we have invested in talent that has real development potential.

Big claim, Chukwueze was tearing apart Real Madrid for Villarreal a few seasons ago. If he becomes as good as Chukwueze that would be a great achievement.

Indeed.

Kevin has better footwork and dribbling, but does not have as much positional and situational vision.

Those two can be more inate in some, but also they are to do with experience of playing at a properly high level, which Kevin is now getting and crucially, and at the risk of being boring, brain development.
The prefrontal cortex and parietal lobes—responsible for spatial skils and  planning only fully mature in the mid-20s.

Basically Kevin should develop what he lacks.

Yeah agreed, I'm really excited to see what he could become. But I'm also reining in my excitement somewhat now as it's not a foregone conclusion. People are gonna take the piss a bit but at times his trickery and skills makes me think of Neymar. I like watching him, but right now I just can never see him scoring. I dunno what the spark will be, we just have to hope one time he makes the right connection and it ignites him. He struck such a fierce snapshot against Leeds on his debut, so he's got it in him.

Also in warmups he often strikes it so beautifully.

[The Little Dave]

Kevin has to learn to play in a system and right now the system is very flawed.

The entire left side of our attack is broken. Many times we'd set up a triangle and it seemed like no one knew what to do. You also saw ESR and Kevin make runs in the channel, no pass attempt. Brighton were very organized and ready they squeezer the 3-4 players in the space, and many times we'd pass it backwards all the way to Leno.

Marco has a tough job picking the lock on the system with the right players. ESR and Sess seem to rly understand each other. But Iwobi and Robinson also seem to work well together. Sess lacks the direct style of Kevin, but clearly works in the system better. Etc, etc, there's just a lot of permutations going on.

I trust Marco to figure it out, and I don't think Kevin is on the outside of the system, it's just going to take time.

The prem is so system based, as is Marco. If Kevin and grasp, and find his way into it he will be fine. Marco also needs to work on making some space for a more direct player.

[Carborundum]

The league is very difficult, far more difficult than anything he's seen before.  He's learning the level of respect opponents need to be given and the teamwork needed to unlock opposing defences.  Particularly in the first 70 mins before tiredness leads to gaps.

At a similar age I, and others, landed myself into a career the like of which I wasn't fully prepared for, none of us were, none of us could have been. We all made mistakes during the acclimation process.  Those who were prepared to put effort in  to learn prospered those who weren't did not.  Thankfully I wasn't judged too harshly for well meaning errors made before I'd got to grips with everything.  Football's different, but forgiveness is an underrated human quality. 

He tracks back and defends, the effort signs are good.  If the thinks "I've made it" and coasts of course he will come unstuck. 

I'd much rather have a winger who takes people on in the final third than one who shies away from the personal battle.  The things he can do with a football are delicious, but they can't be done at 100 miles per hour. He's never going to be that type of player, but he needs to get better and should watch how Sessegnon uses a high cruising speed to affect games.

Summerville's now flying for West Ham after a torrid and extended period of struggle.  Fairly sure Kevin's better than he is.

[RAY Rock]

I appreciate everyone's opinion but I see absolutely nothing in him . He played in Brazil has had a year in Europe if you look at Estevao he came straight from Brazil to chelscum and is doing really well he beats players scores goals and is assisting and is making a difference and he is younger . When you pay 40 million surely you see some end product I see nothing what I see is scared rabbit in the headlights that is a novice. When we pay big fees I dont expect to wait a year or 18 months to see if they are good enough i have seen enough with my own eyes to tell me he isn't good enough .

[hopper]

I appreciate everyone's opinion but I see absolutely nothing in him . He played in Brazil has had a year in Europe if you look at Estevao he came straight from Brazil to chelscum and is doing really well he beats players scores goals and is assisting and is making a difference and he is younger . When you pay 40 million surely you see some end product I see nothing what I see is scared rabbit in the headlights that is a novice. When we pay big fees I dont expect to wait a year or 18 months to see if they are good enough i have seen enough with my own eyes to tell me he isn't good enough .

Remember, players do not choose their transfer fees and shouldn't be blamed for them. Happens all the time I see fans do this. "When we pay big fees I dont expect to wait a year or 18 months to see if they are good enough" - respectfully, this is such a short-sighted and bloody minded opinion.

Secondly, Estevao is widely touted as being a potential Ballon d'Or winner and one of the future best players in the world - pretty hard standard to match up to.

[Matt10]

This isn't a flawed system, it's the system modern football has demanded. This is why long balls are back in fashion because it's the anti-Pep approach. Passing backwards to the keeper in open play is the same reason defenders pass back to the keeper on goal kicks - the goalie is one less player that isn't marked, and they start from a central position - which means the defending team doesn't know what side of the press to trigger yet.

Switching the ball as a means to reset the play doesn't happen as often anymore, instead the common attack comes from inviting the press while rotations through the midfield are done off the ball. This is why some supporters hate Berge because he passes back all the time, except his passing back is a way of our system's patience coming into play to allow movement off the ball to get in threatening positions.

Kevin is learning this. Within the first 10 minutes of the match he's made safe passes, aggressive dribbles and a brilliant maradona to set up his shot that went high. It's a tough thing to learn, to have patience in such a high paced environment. He's recently established the desire to get back on defense and put in challenges, now it's about making the right decisions on and off the ball. In fact, he was part of a lot of our chances yesterday. Simple moments of being in the right place at the right time like running onto the chipped through ball from Robinson, then heading the ball back towards Jimenez's volley attempt.

I think a solid signing of a winger would be the make or break for Kevin. The same way Adama Traore has been pushed out, the same needs to happen with Kevin to challenge him even further. 

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

I'm more than happy with the lad. Ya, its human nature to expect instant results after paying out such a high fee, but as everyone and their dog has already pointed out, Kevin is finding his feet and is already showing signs of success. Patience is a virtue and impatience wins you frustration.

I'll settle for the Patience and Success!

[ffcthereligion]

We said the same thing about ESR last season and look at him now

Yeah he's still rubbish

[jayffc]

We said the same thing about ESR last season and look at him now

Yeah he's still rubbish

He's not though. At all.
Played well and retook the place off king deservedly, and was a positive part of our big run through December into January.

Teams 7th for a reason and hes played a real part in us being there through our most successful stretch of the season so far

[ffcthereligion]

We said the same thing about ESR last season and look at him now

Yeah he's still rubbish

He's not though. At all.
Played well and retook the place off king deservedly, and was a positive part of our big run through December into January.

Teams 7th for a reason and hes played a real part in us being there through our most successful stretch of the season so far

I don't really see him as having played a significant role personally. He doesn't offer enough, one tap in from a corner and admittedly scored a great header v city when we were 3-0 down. No assists. I know king hasn't scored at all. But he is much more positive on with the ball at his feet and drives us forward. All just my opinion, I know criticism of our players isn't liked by many but the idea that we should 'look at him now' as if there's been a huge improvement from last season is over praising the mediocre to me

[perry geyton]

I appreciate everyone's opinion but I see absolutely nothing in him . He played in Brazil has had a year in Europe if you look at Estevao he came straight from Brazil to chelscum and is doing really well he beats players scores goals and is assisting and is making a difference and he is younger . When you pay 40 million surely you see some end product I see nothing what I see is scared rabbit in the headlights that is a novice. When we pay big fees I dont expect to wait a year or 18 months to see if they are good enough i have seen enough with my own eyes to tell me he isn't good enough .

There's no guarantee in anything in life, If Marco's starting him he's OBVIOUSLY seeing something in training, we've seen bright sparks eventually he will shine

You coming and completely writing him off says a lot about your footballing brain

Instant gratification

[Twig]

[/quote]

He excites me.  He is a player that will take a defender and drive on rather than the standard stop, pass back and recycle the ball back to Leno.

Yes, he loses the ball, yes he misplaces a pass but I pay my money to be entertained and Kevin does that for me.  Leno receiving the ball when we have been on the edge of the opponents 18-yard line does not.

As commented in this thread, his defensive work is good too.

One day, I would like to see Kevin on the left, Chukwueze on the right, Muniz at no9 and Wilson at 10. I was frustrated yesterday that Kevin was sacrificed when Robinson was replaced and Iwobi (Marco favourite) moved wide left.  I think Kevin would have benefited from Sess behind him rather than an out of sorts Robinson.

Sorry have I lost the plot. I thought Chuck replaced Kevin wide left not Iwobi?

[Twig]

We said the same thing about ESR last season and look at him now

Yeah he's still rubbish

Sorry is this a WUM?

[Somerset Fulham]

I think Chuck did replace Kevin but then Iwobi went wide left, Harry through the middle and Chuck on the right.

[Matt10]

We said the same thing about ESR last season and look at him now

Yeah he's still rubbish

He's not though. At all.
Played well and retook the place off king deservedly, and was a positive part of our big run through December into January.

Teams 7th for a reason and hes played a real part in us being there through our most successful stretch of the season so far

I don't really see him as having played a significant role personally. He doesn't offer enough, one tap in from a corner and admittedly scored a great header v city when we were 3-0 down. No assists. I know king hasn't scored at all. But he is much more positive on with the ball at his feet and drives us forward. All just my opinion, I know criticism of our players isn't liked by many but the idea that we should 'look at him now' as if there's been a huge improvement from last season is over praising the mediocre to me

I think that's a bit of a narrow approach where it's goal contributions related rather than the overall product. He doesn't lose the ball often, finds teammates and supports them at different thirds of the pitch. Can play with his back to goal and uses both feet well. He knows how to find space very well and doesn't skip his defensive duties. He can, and has, scored goals - created chances to attempt those goals.

My main criticism in the Brighton match was finishing his runs too soon when his teammates were trying to find him. Once where Iwobi looked like it was a 1-2 with Kevin, but it was in fact for a further pass to ESR into the box. Another was when he had started to curl a run around the center back, but stopped abruptly. Cuenca had already sent the ball over the top expecting the deeper run.

[Angus Telford]

ESR is solid now.
First touch, control and passing are all class, spot on pretty much 100% of the time. When a move breaks down, it's never, ever with him.
I do think that rather than just keeping our attacking play flowing, he needs to start producing those moments of brilliance, like beating his man or picking a shot, that give you a goal out of nothing. But at that point he becomes our best player and Champions' League clubs/ Spurs will start sniffing around.