Right - I'm going to say it...

[Tktd]

Thanks for the video all 4:17 secs of it... it could've been longer as Dempsey has scored muc better goals than those.... the question though is not what he can already do, but what and how often he's found wanting because of all the bits in between those you've illustrated in the video... is there a video of all his bad attributes? I doubt it. Doesn't mean they don't exist though.

It's about consistancy and other mental things and technical things being a professional footballer - what I'm saying is I think he's not as good as everyone says he is and I find him as a player frustrating and at times I think he jus isn't good enough (mainly when comparing to others views of him) - I think he could be a lot better - his speed, touch and ability to be inconsistant whether taking shots which trickle along the ground relatively often or the amount of time it takes him to find his feet with the ball at his feet when we're counter attacking in which we lose momentum etc is irritating.

I believe we have players who make up for those skills he lacks but also maintain the basics he does well which for me means that he's a bench player and possibly a super sub.

I've been a season ticket holder for coming upto 14 years and have missed very few home matches and made my fair few trips to away games, I was at the Juve game, the liverpool game and many many more, I know how bad players can be and I've watched this club in more divisions than most - I appreciate therefoe his contribution but think there is better in the squad given the time he has in the team who could make a bigger impact - Gera, Davies and Dembele are three and give us a better and more dynamic dimension whlst playing and also I think add more to the team in assists, build up play to goals, attacking football, better touch etc etc....

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).

[Tktd]

Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).

Can you really compare two players one of whom, in Dempsey, has played 29 games to a player who's played 13 games?... Dempsey has scored 10 in all competitions compared to Gera who's scored 4 in all competitions... Gera also has 6 assists in comparison to Dempsey's 4...

So What I've been trying to say is that I think Gera has more to offer the team and would do if given the time on the field to prove himself.

Gera - in total 10 goals either scored or contributed to in 13 games - Dempsey - 15 in 29 games. Sounding a bit less crazy now.

I will say again - whilst i'm not Dempseys biggest fan I do see some value in him - that said I see it from the bench - and based on those figures - taken from Fulhamfc.com it'd look like I'd be right in thinking so...

Now if we take AJ out for Davies do we get the same type of stats - Simon Davies - assists 4 and 2 goals - 6 goals scored or contributed to in  23 games  AJ - 2 goals and 3 assists... contribution = 5 goals scored or assisted in 12games.... So AJ would seem to be more productive so I stnd corrected on him althouh would argue can you compare a striker to a midfielde???

[BalDrick]

But making or scoring goals isn't the entire contribution is it? For any player.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).

Can you really compare two players one of whom, in Dempsey, has played 29 games to a player who's played 13 games?... Dempsey has scored 10 in all competitions compared to Gera who's scored 4 in all competitions... Gera also has 6 assists in comparison to Dempsey's 4...

So What I've been trying to say is that I think Gera has more to offer the team and would do if given the time on the field to prove himself.

Gera - in total 10 goals either scored or contributed to in 13 games - Dempsey - 15 in 29 games. Sounding a bit less crazy now.

I will say again - whilst i'm not Dempseys biggest fan I do see some value in him - that said I see it from the bench - and based on those figures - taken from Fulhamfc.com it'd look like I'd be right in thinking so...

Now if we take AJ out for Davies do we get the same type of stats - Simon Davies - assists 4 and 2 goals - 6 goals scored or contributed to in  23 games  AJ - 2 goals and 3 assists... contribution = 5 goals scored or assisted in 12games.... So AJ would seem to be more productive so I stnd corrected on him althouh would argue can you compare a striker to a midfielde???

The problem with the 'all competition' stats is that they completely distort the real picture.

Gera scored 2 goals and got 3 assists against Port Vale in the league cup, and a further goal and another assist in the FA cup against peterborough. Say what you want but he has produced against minnows and not in the Premier League.

Also, according to the Fulham website, he has made 24 appearances this season in the league rather than 13, scoring 1 goal and notching up 2 assists. Dempsey has made 27 apps in the league scoring 9 goal and helping out with four assists. Those are the pertinent stats.

I like Gera but I dont think he has offered much this season and that is why he has been warming the bench. Dempsey has been the heart and soul of  the team whilst we went through a striking crisis - now he has had a couple of off games and missed a penalty (that he won completely on his own) the knives are out, which IMO is pretty disrespectful of what he has done for Fulham this season.

[mccscratch]

Current Top 25 players in the Prem from ACTIM... FTR...Brede is 31

1   Dimitar Berbatov   Man Utd   504
2   Florent Malouda   Chelsea   456
3   Nemanja Vidic   Man Utd   438
4   Carlos Tevez   Man City   436
5   Didier Drogba   Chelsea   383
6   Luis Nani   Man Utd   376
7   Kevin Nolan   Newcastle   375
8   Gareth Bale   Tottenham   372
9   Joe Hart   Man City   362
10   Patrice Evra   Man Utd   359
11   Alex Song   Arsenal   355
12   Vincent Kompany   Man City   354
13   Darren Fletcher   Man Utd   346
14   Nicolas Anelka   Chelsea   342
15   Morten Gamst Pedersen   Blackburn   341
16   John Terry   Chelsea   339
17   Andrey Arshavin   Arsenal   336
18   Petr Cech   Chelsea   335
19   Ashley Cole   Chelsea   335
20   Samir Nasri   Arsenal   331
21   Clint Dempsey   Fulham   331
22   Dirk Kuyt   Liverpool   324
23   Gareth Barry   Man City   321
24   Stewart Downing   Aston Villa   319
25   Jose Reina   Liverpool   318

[SoCalJoe]

Burt hit the nail on the head  :007:  For whatever reason Clint is the most polarizing player on the squad.

Tbh I stopped going on the offal years ago just to avoid all the 'Dempsey is a...' threads. Admittingly yanks in our desperate need to have an American succeed can turn a blind eye to faults. However, it's silly to argue anything but that he has improved every year since he got here. Hmm, I wonder if it's attributed to his obviously poor work habits in training?  

[ToodlesMcToot]

Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).

Can you really compare two players one of whom, in Dempsey, has played 29 games to a player who's played 13 games?... Dempsey has scored 10 in all competitions compared to Gera who's scored 4 in all competitions... Gera also has 6 assists in comparison to Dempsey's 4...

So What I've been trying to say is that I think Gera has more to offer the team and would do if given the time on the field to prove himself.

Gera - in total 10 goals either scored or contributed to in 13 games - Dempsey - 15 in 29 games. Sounding a bit less crazy now.

I will say again - whilst i'm not Dempseys biggest fan I do see some value in him - that said I see it from the bench - and based on those figures - taken from Fulhamfc.com it'd look like I'd be right in thinking so...

Now if we take AJ out for Davies do we get the same type of stats - Simon Davies - assists 4 and 2 goals - 6 goals scored or contributed to in  23 games  AJ - 2 goals and 3 assists... contribution = 5 goals scored or assisted in 12games.... So AJ would seem to be more productive so I stnd corrected on him althouh would argue can you compare a striker to a midfielde???

3 of 4 of Gera's goals came against Port Vale and Peterborough in Cup competition blowouts. While, to use your words, I do see the value in them, they pale against the importance of 9 of Clint's 10 goals that have gone a long long way toward our survival while we awaited our injured. So, while I see where you're going with Gera's 10 in 13 versus Clint's 15 in 29 comparison, it just doesn't work for me.

I'm a Gera fan by the way and wish he'd seen more of the field this season, just not at the expense of Dempsey. We'd have scored more goals with both on the field IMO.

[BalDrick]

'I like Gera but I dont think he has offered much this season and that is why he has been warming the bench. Dempsey has been the heart and soul of  the team whilst we went through a striking crisis - now he has had a couple of off games and missed a penalty (that he won completely on his own) the knives are out, which IMO is pretty disrespectful of what he has done for Fulham this season.'

What I imagine the original point was is that Gera may have been a tad unlucky not to get the nod in front of Dempsey as the person to do all this work. Once Deuce got the nod, and started producing, then frankly the writing was on the wall for Gera, barring injury. And as Gera has become staler, he has looked less impressive coming off the bench.

What it all boils down to is is there room in the squad for both players? Personally I like them both but I think Deuce shades it as a player - not by a huge distance though. Who will play off Zamora is of course the next question. Had RH stayed then Gera could well have expected to be asked to do the job, but he didn't so he won't be.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

'I like Gera but I dont think he has offered much this season and that is why he has been warming the bench. Dempsey has been the heart and soul of  the team whilst we went through a striking crisis - now he has had a couple of off games and missed a penalty (that he won completely on his own) the knives are out, which IMO is pretty disrespectful of what he has done for Fulham this season.'

What I imagine the original point was is that Gera may have been a tad unlucky not to get the nod in front of Dempsey as the person to do all this work. Once Deuce got the nod, and started producing, then frankly the writing was on the wall for Gera, barring injury. And as Gera has become staler, he has looked less impressive coming off the bench.

What it all boils down to is is there room in the squad for both players? Personally I like them both but I think Deuce shades it as a player - not by a huge distance though. Who will play off Zamora is of course the next question. Had RH stayed then Gera could well have expected to be asked to do the job, but he didn't so he won't be.

See, I am not even sure you are asking the right question - is there room for both Dembele and Gera in the same team? As soon as Dembele arrived, Gera was benched as he cannot really play on the wing.

Dempsey on the other hand can play LM/RM/CF/SS basically a midfield/forward utility man. Therein lies the value of Clint.

[White Noise]

Who do you think the fans love best? Dempsey. Without any doubt.

He makes more column inches than any other player, he sells more shirts, he puts his body on the line every game, he never gives up, he makes things happen, he is lucky, he is skillful, he scores more goals than almost any other player of his type in the division, he is that rarest of things - a successful American who is also likeable, he is determined to succeed but humble enough to never take his place for granted, he wants to improve, he is rarely injured, his stats suggest he does more of most things than anyone else, he is resolutely Fulham and has never let paper talk distract him.

He is the sort of player I am happy for my kids to idolise and he is partly what I imagine the players of old to have been like. He is not flashy or celebrity obsessed and seems to be a devoted family man.

Whats more,  he will never leave Fulham. He is good enough to be amongst the best at a club like Fulham but not quite good enough to move to a top 5 club. His popularity will oustrip that of McBride and he will go down as one of the foremost Fulham players of the modern era. (And this thread will be one of the longest running!! :005:)

Whats not to like?

[mccscratch]

Who do you think the fans love best? Dempsey. Without any doubt.

He makes more column inches than any other player, he sells more shirts, he puts his body on the line every game, he never gives up, he makes things happen, he is lucky, he is skillful, he scores more goals than almost any other player of his type in the division, he is that rarest of things - a successful American who is also likeable, he is determined to succeed but humble enough to never take his place for granted, he wants to improve, he is rarely injured, his stats suggest he does more of most things than anyone else, he is resolutely Fulham and has never let paper talk distract him.

He is the sort of player I am happy for my kids to idolise and he is partly what I imagine the players of old to have been like. He is not flashy or celebrity obsessed and seems to be a devoted family man.

Whats more,  he will never leave Fulham. He is good enough to be amongst the best at a club like Fulham but not quite good enough to move to a top 5 club. His popularity will oustrip that of McBride and he will go down as one of the foremost Fulham players of the modern era. (And this thread will be one of the longest running!! :005:)

Whats not to like?

+3... (why 3? because my two dogs Lazz and Macy who both watch every game with me get a vote too and they love da Deuce...)

[MJG]

Dempsey is the Gary Brazil of today, half of us rate him the other half do not.

I like him but my god does he get on my nerves with diving, yes diving, ok its part of the modern game but it would be good to see him try to stay on his feet a bit more than he does. His main trick is the two feet together and then timberrrrrrrrrr down he goes as soon as someone touches him.

The other main moan about him is he does not take the ball with him, he sort of drags it along the ground instead of having real control over it and then he loseses the ball.

But as I said earlier he is top goalscorer and we would be a lesser squad without him.

[Logicalman]

Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).

Can you really compare two players one of whom, in Dempsey, has played 29 games to a player who's played 13 games?

Well, YOU did, so I guess its fair for others to as well. isn't it? You have been prattling on about what a waste of space Dempsey is, and why Gera et al others should be starters except him, but when push comes to shove, you cannot back your assertions up. The bottom line is that you appear to disagree with Sparky's choice of player. You deride others on here that provide something to back their arguments up, and little else to disprove them. I've got an idea, as you seem to like to second-guess Sparky in respect to Demps, why don't you become a manger, and see how you fair?  Unfortunately, I would do the same, but I know my place in this world, and Football Management is nowhere on my horizons.

[TonyGilroy]

I don't know what the problem is. Dempsey's been an important part of our most successful ever team. If he's not absolute top quality then that explains why he's still with us. In addition, like our entire squad, he appears to be honest, decent and grounded unlike far too many footballers.

[Tktd]

Oh Dear White Noise - Normally such a formiddable and diplomatic poster - lets dissect...

Who do you think the fans love best? Dempsey. Without any doubt.

- Ok , have to disagree with you on the first point... if he's the players the fans love most than why are we having this discussion - he's obviously not everyone's cup of tea and as a player his popularity within the stands isn't as great as you may think... he's someone who no doubt has a lot of people split down the middle - maybe that's what he is, a mediocre player!? - he is though improving constantly but fan favourite? Not so sure - definately not up there with Hangeland, Pantsil (when he was playing and not scoring own goals), Zamora etc...

He makes more column inches than any other player,

can't disagree with that but those column inches are more about his attractive story - boy comes from impoverished background, h to go miles and miles to play football catered for by loving parents, then sister had promising career as tennis player and Dempsey made sacrifice , then sister sadly (and I mean that genuinely) dies, shaking Dempseys world and making him fight for a football career and dedicate it to his family and sister. - His story is true and one I respect a lot, but it is the majority of what articles about him entail. That or his rapping. The fact that he's one of few Americans who've made it/are making it over here - Friedel, Howard, McBride and Dempsey been all of them and maybe Bocanegra, makes it a massive story in the states - almost like when England have a star of the future who noones really seen play and then the press wax yrical about him and then he does diddly squat due to the pressure.

he sells more shirts,

Arguably true but then again he does represent the United States and even then it's still debateable whether Dempsey sells the most shirts.


he puts his body on the line every game, he never gives up, he makes things happen, he is lucky, he is skillful, he scores more goals than almost any other player of his type in the division, he is that rarest of things - a successful American who is also likeable, he is determined to succeed but humble enough to never take his place for granted, he wants to improve, he is rarely injured, his stats suggest he does more of most things than anyone else, he is resolutely Fulham and has never let paper talk distract him.


Some fair and some no so true facts about him, his work ethic and willingness to improve himself has never been in doubt and he is evidently improving year in yer out but the rest is debatable.

He is the sort of player I am happy for my kids to idolise and he is partly what I imagine the players of old to have been like. He is not flashy or celebrity obsessed and seems to be a devoted family man.


I admire this about him too but would like to think my children would appreciate those skills you have mentioned but idolise other players. that though is a taste difference and pretty void.

Whats more,  he will never leave Fulham.



He's suggested he wants to leave Fulham this season or more aptly that he would like to play Champions League football and can't see that happening at Fulham.

He is good enough to be amongst the best at a club like Fulham but not quite good enough to move to a top 5 club. His popularity will oustrip that of McBride and he will go down as one of the foremost Fulham players of the modern era. (And this thread will be one of the longest running!! :005:)

Whats not to like?

[BalDrick]

Who do you think the fans love best? Dempsey. Without any doubt.

He makes more column inches than any other player, he sells more shirts, he puts his body on the line every game, he never gives up, he makes things happen, he is lucky, he is skillful, he scores more goals than almost any other player of his type in the division, he is that rarest of things - a successful American who is also likeable, he is determined to succeed but humble enough to never take his place for granted, he wants to improve, he is rarely injured, his stats suggest he does more of most things than anyone else, he is resolutely Fulham and has never let paper talk distract him.

He is the sort of player I am happy for my kids to idolise and he is partly what I imagine the players of old to have been like. He is not flashy or celebrity obsessed and seems to be a devoted family man.

Whats more,  he will never leave Fulham. He is good enough to be amongst the best at a club like Fulham but not quite good enough to move to a top 5 club. His popularity will oustrip that of McBride and he will go down as one of the foremost Fulham players of the modern era. (And this thread will be one of the longest running!! :005:)

Whats not to like?

And he's got the best song, think you're forgetting a major thing there.

[Lighthouse]

Everything has been well put forward here. But I am bemused that Clint Falling down is a criticism of him. We have one player who has mastered the art of winning fouls and penalties and yet we have a go at him. While other teams seem to use it as part of their training structure.

For my part I think Dempsey is in the top three most important players we have.

[LordNelson]

It doesn't matter how well Dempsey does, Tktd has never rated him and never will.  There is no use trying to convince him otherwise as the actual evidence matters not.  I remember him/her from the offal and as I recall the criticisms were usually petty and/or baseless.

[mccscratch]

Tktd... I was often wound up rather easy but I have gotten better over the years on here... I wont bother calling your names etc because we are all entitled to opinions...HOWEVER... I will not let you get away with saying that Clint was quoted as saying he could not earn CL football here... That was never ever in the real and direct quote... Clint said he would love to play CL football someday and that was it...did you ever think that perhaps he might see Fulham as good enough to do that in the coming years?

Don't put false words into a through and through Fulham man's mouth just to try and refuediate something that WN said....