FIFA won'r allow Poppies on England Shirts - Merged Topics

[GoldCoastWhite]

Think this is being hyped up beyond reason. I don't think England or any other teams wore Poppies in years gone by so why make a big issue now ? In fact I think wearing them on football shirts trivialises the event which was meant to be silent remembrance of the dead on the 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th month. - In years gone by I remember the whole country (schools , offices , factories) fell into solemn remambrance of the dead.

I believe politicians changed the timing to the nearest Sunday so as not to interefere with business.
My Father and Grandfather who fought in the wars and lived in Fulham said that in the twenties and thirties in Fulham you could end up being punched to the ground if you did not observe the silence.  It was virtually that way at my school in Fulham in the Fifties - no argument - a common cause.

Seems a long way from chasing a bloody ball around the field ! If the FA care so much let them dedicate all the advertising to the Poppy Appeal and Help for Heoes fund. They won't because they are bloody hypocrites. Failing that pay to decorate the stadium with Poppies.

+ 1  :048:

[finnster01]

Think this is being hyped up beyond reason. I don't think England or any other teams wore Poppies in years gone by so why make a big issue now ? In fact I think wearing them on football shirts trivialises the event which was meant to be silent remembrance of the dead on the 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th month. - In years gone by I remember the whole country (schools , offices , factories) fell into solemn remambrance of the dead.

I believe politicians changed the timing to the nearest Sunday so as not to interefere with business.
My Father and Grandfather who fought in the wars and lived in Fulham said that in the twenties and thirties in Fulham you could end up being punched to the ground if you did not observe the silence.  It was virtually that way at my school in Fulham in the Fifties - no argument - a common cause.

Seems a long way from chasing a bloody ball around the field ! If the FA care so much let them dedicate all the advertising to the Poppy Appeal and Help for Heoes fund. They won't because they are bloody hypocrites. Failing that pay to decorate the stadium with Poppies.

And I remember coming back from a war and nobody gave a damn. You'll never imagine how much that hurt. Couldn't even get folks to buy me a beer as I was skint.

What is better, ignore the veterans and shove the fallen under the carpet or recognize their sacrifice in what I think is a tasteful way? This can never be over hyped in my book. Especially these days when nobody gives a crap about their country anyways.

Don't ever forget, and don't ever be silent because that may make other people forget.

[In the Enclosure]

Finnter - I am not saying we should forget because we shouldn't and the silence should be observed on Remembrance Sunday.
However the Poppy Appeal is also about raising funds for soldiers  down on their luck (as you were) or injured . But I do think that this year the Politicians and FA are hi- jacking this matter as part of the 'Fifa / Europe etc . can't tell us what to do' movement therefore making it political,

We should put pressure on both to donate substantial funds to the poppy appeal now - they have all acted outraged - now lets see some real money to support our service men and women when they need it.

[Oakeshott]

Hopefully this decision, and our treatment over the World Cup, will be remembered when bag-of-pus Blatter strolls around the Olympics next Summer - I hope he gets loudly boo'd whenever he is sighted.

[MrFantastic]

Football is a sport and not a branch of army or a political stage where countries can promote their wars. Nothing wrong with this decision but I understand some peoples anger with this decision specially if they are from UK because in their mind their wars are justified. I am not arguing here that wars involving UK soldiers now are justified or not only that there should be no mention of wars or politics in football games.

[LordNelson]

Football is a sport and not a branch of army or a political stage where countries can promote their wars. Nothing wrong with this decision but I understand some peoples anger with this decision specially if they are from UK because in their mind their wars are justified. I am not arguing here that wars involving UK soldiers now are justified or not only that there should be no mention of wars or politics in football games.

It doesn't have jack poo to do with promoting war or justifying war, mate.  If that's what you were taught then you need to reeducate yourself.  It has to do with honoring those who didn't come back and who mostly had no choice in getting sent and who could have cared less about the politics involved--they died for their mates not politics.

[flirpit]

Completely the right decision in my view, if FIFA allows us to wear the poppy on our shirts then how can they object when another country wants to commerorate their war dead who may well have died fighting an unjust, repressive war (possibly involving war crimes etc.). As others have mentioned it is fully appropriate to hold a minutes silence - which we are doing, to wear black armbands - which we are doing.

This has never been a problem in the past it has only become an issue as there becomes more and more pressure on everyone to wear the poppy all the time. It seems like anyone who appears in the national consciousness without a poppy from midway through october right up until the end of rememberance sunday is universally slated. I wear my poppy with pride yet I do so as a personal choice - I don't believe anyone should be vilified for not wanting to wear a poppy, if they have other ways of commemorating the dead/for some reason disagree with the poppy - that's fine. After all the reason behind the wars was so that we could live in a country where different opinions could be expressed.

[ImperialWhite]

Football is a sport and not a branch of army or a political stage where countries can promote their wars. Nothing wrong with this decision but I understand some peoples anger with this decision specially if they are from UK because in their mind their wars are justified. I am not arguing here that wars involving UK soldiers now are justified or not only that there should be no mention of wars or politics in football games.

It doesn't have jack sh1t to do with promoting war or justifying war, mate.  If that's what you were taught then you need to reeducate yourself.  It has to do with honoring those who didn't come back and who mostly had no choice in getting sent and who could have cared less about the politics involved--they died for their mates not politics.

Wrong.

"Poppy culture" makes it impossible to criticise our military, and what our military is doing.

-If the EDL starts a campaign about something, you know there's something very ugly going on deep down.

[finnster01]

Completely the right decision in my view, if FIFA allows us to wear the poppy on our shirts then how can they object when another country wants to commerorate their war dead who may well have died fighting an unjust, repressive war (possibly involving war crimes etc.).
... After all the reason behind the wars was so that we could live in a country where different opinions could be expressed.

So why not wear the poppy then? You just rested your own case. Because without a lot of brave men this conversation would be in German and it bugs me to no end  092.gif

[flirpit]

I support wearing the poppy I just think that if we do it it open's the door to any tin-pot dictatorship in africa wearing a symbol on their shirt to commemorate the genocide by which their dictators took hold of the country, or china commemorating Maos cultural revolution etc.

My point is that there shouldn't have to be this crusade campaigning for people to wear the poppy, it is (or should be) a personal choice. Politics should stay out of football. 

[MrFantastic]

Everybody here would be angry if Iran tried to pull something like this off to remember their dead secret service members who were sent to Iraq to fight the Americans and UK soldiers. In their mind they died for just cause and in your mind your soldiers died for just cause. If you argue that these soldiers had no choice but to go to war, you are wrong. They choose to go to the army and in the army that is what you do go to war. Everybody makes their own decisions at least in USA and UK considering going to the army. It is fine to remember your dead soldiers, but you can do it at home on the street and something like that, but not in any sport games. Sport is here to promote peace and unity among people well some sports are not like fighting sports, but most sport are promoting peace and respect. So by having England have this on their shirts might offend some people watching the game in other countries whose family member might have been killed by a bomb dropped by a UK fighter plane who was killed and was innocent. As I said before some people in UK would be offended if Iran tried to remember their dead who went to fight in Iraq. FIFA is a sport organization and it shouldn't be forced to choose which wars are justified and which are not there.

[LordNelson]

Should just "temporarily" redesign the shield and add a poppy with the 3 lions and tell 'em to piss off.

[aussierod]

People say its not political, and its not political in the domestic sense, however globally, war is political (one country against another, where in most cases, the winner gets to write the history and be proud of their achievements whereas the other is said to be evil) How would most English fans feel remembering the fallen soldiers of Germany or Afghanistan for instance at a football match? What about other nations too, eg Serbia remembering their fallen soldiers playing against say Kosovo.

The poppy, I believe, is only remembering the dead of one nation (or group of nations with regards to the UK). Perhaps its time for the world to create a global Rememberance day for all fallen soldiers, and how would people respect this? I doubt with as much passion as Rememberance day so it is a day, of sorts, for national pride, ie we are remembering those who died for a 'just' cause as opposed to just all soldiers.

I believe, as others have mentioned above, that football is a sport, it is neutral and should only be about the sport. I cannot believe the build up by the press and politicians with this, all trying to point score.

Also, with regards to the poppy, I personally find it odd as an Aussie that you have Rememberance Day which is not a public holiday and display the poppy for weeks ahead. I say this as our national rememberance day is ANZAC day being, a public holiday with dawn service, parades etc. I'm not saying that we shouldn't respect the lives of those who gave the ultimate sacrifice fighting for their country (we most definitely should) however I think it should just be on one day where everyone's attention is centred on those fallen in combat, not for weeks where it seems it is just the done thing with little regard to the actual thinking of what it would be like to be in that situation of war and remembering all the lives lost fighting for a cause they believed in or was forced into

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

just on BBC news :yay: :yay:
well on black arm bands that are on the shirt but still :yay: :yay:

[leonffc]

I wonder if it had anything to do with some of the EDL lads managing to get on the roof of FIFA HQ this afternoon in protest?

[MOR :]

England players WILL wear the poppy after winning their battle with FIFA. After a week of refusing to back down, football's governing body has finally allowed the FA to let their players pull on special armbands bearing the poppy to mark Remembrance Day.


LEST WE FORGET THOSE WHO LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES SO WE COULD DEBATE SUCH TOPICS...SOME OF THE COMMENTS ON HERE RE "POPPY WEARING ON THE ENGLAND SHIRTS" MAKE ME SICK...Shame on you...

[luckykat]

I find the idea that wearing a poppy is political is absurd. Try suggesting that all those lovely people in Wootton Bassett who used to line the streets whenever a soldier's coffin was repatriated through the nearby airfield that they were expressing a political view and you will get just blank looks and your sanity would be questioned.

[os5889]

The right result, even though I don't approve the way we went about getting it!

[finnster01]

The poppy to me is a sign of remembrance regardless of country, but to those who fell fighting for their country during a war. Anyone who has lost someone or been there knows what I am talking about.

Call me old fashioned or whatever you want, but I will be having the day off and watching the parade in New York on Remembrance day and I am sure many a tear will be shed in my end. God Bless.   :Haynes The Maestro:

[MrFantastic]

For all those who support this tell me what would you say if some African country tried to remember their  dictator and his soldiers who killed a lot of people, or if Germans remembered their dead soldiers during world war 2 during a football game. How does FIFA decide who and which country has the right to remember their dead soldiers and from which wars. Should FIFA have a group of historian deciding this. Remember some UK wars were not for good cause like those colonial wars in Africa so should FIFA say you can remember your dead soldiers as long as you don't remember soldiers from those wars and for Germany they could say it's fine you remember your soldiers as long as they are not from world war 2 and so on. Some say that these soldiers died so I and we can express our opinions, that is why my opinion doesn't have to agree with yours. Remember your dead soldiers and I will remember my countries  dead soldiers but not during sports games in which we should celebrate unity and respect. Can someone who supports wearing poppy answer me how should FIFA decide who has the right to remember their dead or should that right only be for 2 countries UK and USA because they never fought a bad war or killed innocent people well they did but didn't mean to, it's thought that counts and all those dead children and woman killed by mistake by UK bombers in Afghanistan, Iraq don't count. Well be it a mistake or not UK army did kill some innocent people and that is why FIFA doesn't want to start a tradition of remembering soldiers of any country during a football game there.