Who says suicide is painless... its not for those who are left !!

[SHADY1]

some lovely comments on here following the sad suicide of Gary Speed...  but i need to add this from the other side of the coin...
As many know and now all will my father did exactly the same when i was 16 he was 36 ... depression took its toll...  his choice i know (or the voices deep inside) some said  brave man yeh yeh i've heard all the comments BUT one thing HE, Gary and everyone else who's killed themselves doesn't understand or at the the time doesn't care about is those left behind...

His wife, children, family and every single friend will never understand how the Husband, father, son, friend that loved them so much and was loved so much could do this too them... Christmas will never be the same thier lives will never be the same ...for all of them when the 1st mention of christmas is heard all they will think about is Gary's suicide .. not death or passing but suicide...  something none of them will ever forget or probably forgive ... I know from personal experience as you get older you try to get your head around the place they must have been in but you never honestly can .... but when younger I also know that the hurt, anger and torment changed my life and not for the better ... I feel for every family of every person who take there own life and trust me i've had as many reasons as any if not more to do the same ... i'm not stronger ..i'm not wiser or a chicken ... I just couldn't do it to those around me I love... so so sad and in this case especially so so hard to understand why... he had so much more than most ever dream of... thats depression...it's inside and a killer ...
Who knows what will come out in the future about Gary's life  I hope so much it will be nothing to ruin the reputation of someone who seemed such a decent man and great ambassadorfor the game we love, RIP Gary and all those who have felt they had no choice and "it gets better" to all those left behind !!


IF this is pulled I understand I'm not looking for sympathy, nice words this is the last place i'd come  but something like this opens up feelings so many just don't talk about and i know i'm not alone others reading this will understand.

[Drake44444]

thanks for sharing.  it's a perspective most of us can't fathom.  very sad.

[Drake44444]

I wonder if everything he did was an act, always acting - that is forcing himself himself to have a strong and positive front.  and being extremely successful at it.

[Airfix]

Whilst I share your sentiment (I know one person who committed suicide and the over-riding question at the funeral was "why?", coupled with huge resentment of his actions), I think we need to be careful here.  To explain, I will draw on the example of the tragic death of an acquaintance of mine, someone called Charles...

Like with Gary Speed, the official release when Charles was found dead at his home was that he was found hanged.  Of course, the natural reaction was of shock at his death (he was 32) and that he had everything to live for, didn't seem to be in trouble, why didn't he speak to someone, etc etc.  There was also the usual suicide-related resentment that he had taken this way out, rather than attempt to use the support of his family and friends to resolve the situation.

One week later, we found out that he had been in the loft, slipped and gone through the floor, hanging himself on a mains electrical cable.  You can imagine how we all felt then.

So far, the police have said that Gary Speed was found hanged, they have not said that it was suicide.  I think we need to consider that it may just have been an accident.

[richie17]

some lovely comments on here following the sad suicide of Gary Speed...  but i need to add this from the other side of the coin...
As many know and now all will my father did exactly the same when i was 16 he was 36 ... depression took its toll...  his choice i know (or the voices deep inside) some said  brave man yeh yeh i've heard all the comments BUT one thing HE, Gary and everyone else who's killed themselves doesn't understand or at the the time doesn't care about is those left behind...

His wife, children, family and every single friend will never understand how the Husband, father, son, friend that loved them so much and was loved so much could do this too them... Christmas will never be the same thier lives will never be the same ...for all of them when the 1st mention of christmas is heard all they will think about is Gary's suicide .. not death or passing but suicide...  something none of them will ever forget or probably forgive ... I know from personal experience as you get older you try to get your head around the place they must have been in but you never honestly can .... but when younger I also know that the hurt, anger and torment changed my life and not for the better ... I feel for every family of every person who take there own life and trust me i've had as many reasons as any if not more to do the same ... i'm not stronger ..i'm not wiser or a chicken ... I just couldn't do it to those around me I love... so so sad and in this case especially so so hard to understand why... he had so much more than most ever dream of... thats depression...it's inside and a killer ...
Who knows what will come out in the future about Gary's life  I hope so much it will be nothing to ruin the reputation of someone who seemed such a decent man and great ambassadorfor the game we love, RIP Gary and all those who have felt they had no choice and "it gets better" to all those left behind !!


IF this is pulled I understand I'm not looking for sympathy, nice words this is the last place i'd come  but something like this opens up feelings so many just don't talk about and i know i'm not alone others reading this will understand.

Really sorry to hear that.  I don't suppose there's anything anyone can say, from any angle, that you haven't thought 1,000 times already.  Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[BalDrick]

Stirring stuff Shady - the whole suicide thing brings up different opinions and thoughts in everyone, for me one of the biggest eye-opening moments I had was when I realised, after I'd become a father, that I had no respect for Kurt Cobain at all (if in fact that was suicide; think it probably was) simply because he had a young daughter and he was leaving her here without a father (before you even get into how irresponsible the mother is/was). I am sure both he and Gary Speed, and indeed your father, had reasons they felt strongly enough about, but to my mind the minute you become a parent, you've struck a deal that until your kids are grown up, you're there to help them with anything and everything.

Think what you've posted there says a hell of a lot about you; that you're made of strong stuff.

Please note I am not belittling depression in any way, shape or form here - I am aware it's a horrible disease.

[TonyGilroy]

Baldrick

That echoes what I came to realise when I had kids.

The world is divided into 2 types of people and it's not male/female or old/young or rich/poor or black/white or anything other than those who have parental responsibilities and those who don't.

Whatever may happen, my kids are much more important to me than I am and I think most parents feel the same.

The Gary Speed thing is obviously sad and I'm as curious as anyone but I have to say that all the speculation, however well intentioned, is distasteful.

[ImperialWhite]

Thankyou for your story, Shady.

but to my mind the minute you become a parent, you've struck a deal that until your kids are grown up, you're there to help them with anything and everything.

...

Please note I am not belittling depression in any way, shape or form here - I am aware it's a horrible disease.

I can only look at this from the angle of a child - not being a parent, and only for a few years been largely independant - but I think these two opinions you hold contradict. If suicide is the terrible symptom of a disease, how can it be said to be reneging on the duty of care you have with your children? One wouldn't say a parent who died of cancer had reneged on this duty (even if they smoked, drank and didn't exercise), so I think it shouldn't be said about those who suffer from depression either.

Just my tuppence worth!  093.gif

[finnster01]

My sister has suffered on/off from severe depression since she was 20. Still does. She is 54 now. She has raised two wonderful kids (both grownup now, the son/my nephew did three tours of Afghanistan).

However, her depression put her back in hospital for two months this summer. When it is at its worst, she doesn't even know who you are due to her condition. However, the good news is that the medical research in the area of depression has come a long way now. As long as she takes her medication she is now capable of holding down a job, and nobody would detect she has any issues. But back when she was first diagnosed some 30 years ago, she was suicidal and a constant worry for all of us in her family. Although I hope for the best, I don't think she will ever shed her inner demons, just control them.

Depression is a nasty, nasty disease that may exist under the cover and nobody will know until he/she cracks

[Lighthouse]

Depression comes in many forms and effects everybody way beyond the original victim of it. It is not something that can be looked on logically. It can hit the bride or groom on a wedding day or even the parent on the birth of A kid. It is not something you can make a deal with anymore than you can make a deal with a broken leg.

Pointless asking why people are pushed into suicide or attempting it. We just need to except it is what it is and move on. Help those as best we can who suffer from it and not feel guilty if helping is beyond all efforts. Whatever happened to Gary Speed lets be less eager to judge people.

As for SHADY1 original post and indeed Finns post, Mods please leave the thread up. I guarantee talking about it will help somebody. I applaud the effort it must have taken to post them both.

[TheDaddy]

Shady thanks for sharing mate,

Im a man of few words but i can understand in ways how you feel as my dad did the same.At the time i was in my mid twentys i knew he had problems( tried many times with drink and drugs)but he wouldn't help himself i tried ! .I resented him for a long time and only went to the funeral to support my younger brother and sister .It wasn't until many years later that i forgave him in my heart, still call him a few choice words ever now and then .He never got over the death of my mum at such an early age and after looking after three kids and keeping a job down i can perhaps now understand some bit. He just hit the bottle until he killed himself some 20 years later.

As for me i haven't had the easiest of lifes but hey im breathing,happy and just keep going no matter what life throws at me, its not a test this life thing its for real and we only have one go at it so do your best and enjoy as much as you can.....

[BalDrick]

Thankyou for your story, Shady.

but to my mind the minute you become a parent, you've struck a deal that until your kids are grown up, you're there to help them with anything and everything.

...

Please note I am not belittling depression in any way, shape or form here - I am aware it's a horrible disease.

I can only look at this from the angle of a child - not being a parent, and only for a few years been largely independant - but I think these two opinions you hold contradict. If suicide is the terrible symptom of a disease, how can it be said to be reneging on the duty of care you have with your children? One wouldn't say a parent who died of cancer had reneged on this duty (even if they smoked, drank and didn't exercise), so I think it shouldn't be said about those who suffer from depression either.

Just my tuppence worth!  093.gif

Truth is, I don't know very much about depression, whereas I've been a parent for 11 and three quarter years, twice for the last 8 and a half. But, thank goodness, although I've been in some fairly low places at times, I've never been so low I'd leave my kids.

[King_Crud]

as someone recently dignosed with depression all i can say is that it's hard to describe. I haven't put a noose around my neck, but sometimes it just appears for no reason, i think the thing is you just have to be prepared for it when it happens.

[Oakeshott]

The important thing with depression is to take it seriously. Some find prescribed drugs effective, others (myself included) need to understand more about why they feel depressed as well as wanting some help and turn to talking-based therapies. Those at real risk are those who either don't admit to themselves they've a problem or (perhaps more commonly) know they have but are too embarrassed to seek help

[Burt]

Shady1, Daddy, Finn, King Crud... Thanks for sharing what must be very painful insights.

My wife is a GP and sees many, many cases from all walks of life and from both sides of the fence (i.e. those who are being eaten up by their depression, and those whose lives are destroyed when someone dear to them takes their own life).

It is such a difficult subject because:
1. There is still an element of it being a taboo subject.
2. One size doesn't fit all i.e. people cope with things in different ways, get depressed for different reasons, and respond to treatments in different ways. We are all individuals...
3. It can strike regardless of the social background, health, sex, age, wealth, etc. of the person concerned.

Realising you have an issue, having a support structure around you, and being able to feel that you have someone to turn to, are vital...

[GoldCoastWhite]

Thanks for continuing with this gents. I was diagnosed with depression in the early 90's and have had my ups and downs and have come to the realisation that like a lot of ailments, and particularly psychiatric/psychological ones, it affects people differently and there are various ways to cope with it.  I'm convinced that discussions like this one are one of the best ways to reaching some sort of understanding. I have to be careful of getting too down on myself while not using the disease as a cop out because I'm a lazy bastard at the best of times ! For Baldrick, Tony and Shady I can only offer this - in the fleeting, very dark moments I have thought that noone would miss me if I were gone and that could lead to thinking that the world, and even family would be better off without me. Your logical mind is saying don't be idiotic, so selfish, so dismissive of the hurt you know you will cause but those dark thoughts can overpower every rational instinct. Gary Speed and perhaps Shady senior must have been in that awful place and couldn't fight it off. Hitting the bottle is proven to put you on a very slippery slope so I keep my drinking in check (truly) and drink in the right company. I've had two good mates take their own lives and another was fatally shot by a policeman after he went for him with a knife. The coroners report was harrowing but shed a little light on what was happening inside his head. Conversely my Mum battled cancer for ten years after being told she had about two years to live. Twenty two years on I still miss the old girl most days and use her courage and spirit as a beacon when my skies get a little too grey.    

[michaelread]

I'll throw my hand up. I've been diagnosed with bi polar and depression, about 2 years ago. It sucks. Theres not much else to it. I lost someone I love very much because I couldn't handle my actions or thought patterns when at my lowest points. It's not so easy as to just 'figure yourself out' or 'be prepared', sometimes I have done things and said things that I look back at later and am disgusted with myself. I was very lucky that this very important person put my mental health before her own needs, and was by my side through the darkest of days, and in fairness, she got out before she got totally consumed by it all. I cant blame her.

It takes a lot of hard work, and a lot of effort to learn to live with it. And until you can find your feet and come to terms with the fact that it IS a disease, and its not YOUR fault, then you can move towards living WITH it, rather than trying to eradicate it, or feeling as if you're different because of it.

Now, that girl and I are working hard at that second shot. I have never touched medication, I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it without it, and despite moments of madness, I feel like I have a handle on it all.

Unfortunately for some, if they don't have amazing support, they feel like the truly are a let down to the ones they love. And we all know how crippling that can be. Unfortunately, the logic doesnt always add up, and while it's absurd to think those who love us wont be affected, in moments of true darkness, its not hard to feel as if you are actually a burden to those around you. It sounds dumb right now, but I cant count on my fingers and toes the amount of times I have gone through this.

RIP, Gary Speed. Hopefully his story will encourage others to open up to their loved ones, it's the only way. Even this thread is a form of therapy within itself, and as both a depression sufferer and a Psychology student, I can only commend the bravery of those posting about their conditions and their stories in front of friends. It's not easy.

[michaelread]

Thanks for continuing with this gents. I was diagnosed with depression in the early 90's and have had my ups and downs and have come to the realisation that like a lot of ailments, and particularly psychiatric/psychological ones, it affects people differently and there are various ways to cope with it.  I'm convinced that discussions like this one are one of the best ways to reaching some sort of understanding. I have to be careful of getting too down on myself while not using the disease as a cop out because I'm a lazy bastard at the best of times ! For Baldrick, Tony and Shady I can only offer this - in the fleeting, very dark moments I have thought that noone would miss me if I were gone and that could lead to thinking that the world, and even family would be better off without me. Your logical mind is saying don't be idiotic, so selfish, so dismissive of the hurt you know you will cause but those dark thoughts can overpower every rational instinct. Gary Speed and perhaps Shady senior must have been in that awful place and couldn't fight it off. Hitting the bottle is proven to put you on a very slippery slope so I keep my drinking in check (truly) and drink in the right company. I've had two good mates take their own lives and another was fatally shot by a policeman after he went for him with a knife. The coroners report was harrowing but shed a little light on what was happening inside his head. Conversely my Mum battled cancer for ten years after being told she had about two years to live. Twenty two years on I still miss the old girl most days and use her courage and spirit as a beacon when my skies get a little too grey.     

top man, put it wonderfully

[GoldCoastWhite]

Thanks for continuing with this gents. I was diagnosed with depression in the early 90's and have had my ups and downs and have come to the realisation that like a lot of ailments, and particularly psychiatric/psychological ones, it affects people differently and there are various ways to cope with it.  I'm convinced that discussions like this one are one of the best ways to reaching some sort of understanding. I have to be careful of getting too down on myself while not using the disease as a cop out because I'm a lazy bastard at the best of times ! For Baldrick, Tony and Shady I can only offer this - in the fleeting, very dark moments I have thought that noone would miss me if I were gone and that could lead to thinking that the world, and even family would be better off without me. Your logical mind is saying don't be idiotic, so selfish, so dismissive of the hurt you know you will cause but those dark thoughts can overpower every rational instinct. Gary Speed and perhaps Shady senior must have been in that awful place and couldn't fight it off. Hitting the bottle is proven to put you on a very slippery slope so I keep my drinking in check (truly) and drink in the right company. I've had two good mates take their own lives and another was fatally shot by a policeman after he went for him with a knife. The coroners report was harrowing but shed a little light on what was happening inside his head. Conversely my Mum battled cancer for ten years after being told she had about two years to live. Twenty two years on I still miss the old girl most days and use her courage and spirit as a beacon when my skies get a little too grey.     

top man, put it wonderfully

Cheers big fella, as did you. But the Aussies seem to be a bit over represented on here. SAD can only be blamed if you live in Melbourne or Hobart surely ? And on a serious note, your living with it sentiment is one I heartily agree with. You can't throw the bastard out but you can make it sit in the corner where you can keep an eye on it...

[ClarksOriginal]

It takes a lot of hard work, and a lot of effort to learn to live with it. And until you can find your feet and come to terms with the fact that it IS a disease, and its not YOUR fault, then you can move towards living WITH it, rather than trying to eradicate it, or feeling as if you're different because of it.

This is something I am trying to do on a personal level now. Its hard, and is taking me a long time to put it in the corner and keep an eye of it as GCW said, there are days, like yesterday where the dark clouds come and I think 'F this'. I become seriously low to the point of thinking, what if?

Unless you meet someone who feels the same as you nobody seems to realise how hard it really is for some people. I'm glad (probably the wrong word as I know what you are all going through) that there are people on here who feel the same.

Today the outlook is clear, with a hint of sun and no black clouds. Partly because I know some of you feel the same.