It has to be said.......

[bugsy]

.....Berbatov is running the team at his pace but it's not a pace the team can keep up with.  He is slowing the ball down too much!!  Am I the only one seeing this???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     

[fulham1234]

the problem today was he was showing no movement up front and was wanting the ball to feet all the time! that's fine when you have others around him but I would say that only dejagah and kaka are mobile in our front 6, which made it hard to break down a team sitting behind the ball

[MJG]

I wonder if the pace and lack of speed in our game is down to some players not wanting a bollocking from Berbatov?
Are they looking too much for the perfect ball and not gambling enough with balls into the box or space.
Easiest route is always backwards and we seem to be doing that too much.
Don't get me wrong I don't want to play like Stoke, but last ten minutes showed the urgency we needed in the previous 80.

[zzamora]

I wonder if the pace and lack of speed in our game is down to some players not wanting a bollocking from Berbatov?
Are they looking too much for the perfect ball and not gambling enough with balls into the box or space.
Easiest route is always backwards and we seem to be doing that too much.
Don't get me wrong I don't want to play like Stoke, but last ten minutes showed the urgency we needed in the previous 80.

Posession is key for me. If you have the ball, then the oppoition can't score.

I do agree that we are not urgent enough at times, espically for the majority of the second half. First half I thought was good however. Not much to gamble on with Berbatov as a striker, because he doesnt actually get in the box that often.

[Scrumpy]

Bugsy, I agree. We seemed to lack penetration all game.

Surely quick, quick passing is our best option for breaking through packed defences. That, or breaking on the oppostition at speed. Berbatov seems to receive the ball then turn backwards, slowing everything down. I accept that he can do stuff that barely any other player can do and slowing it down like this may benefit him, but does it benefit the team as whole?

[MJG]

I wonder if the pace and lack of speed in our game is down to some players not wanting a bollocking from Berbatov?
Are they looking too much for the perfect ball and not gambling enough with balls into the box or space.
Easiest route is always backwards and we seem to be doing that too much.
Don't get me wrong I don't want to play like Stoke, but last ten minutes showed the urgency we needed in the previous 80.

Posession is key for me. If you have the ball, then the oppoition can't score.

I do agree that we are not urgent enough at times, espically for the majority of the second half. First half I thought was good however. Not much to gamble on with Berbatov as a striker, because he doesnt actually get in the box that often.

I agree possession is the key, but our movement(making angles, running into space) is as poor as  when Cookie was in charge.
Also its fine having the ball for 60% of the time but you have to do something with it.

[zzamora]

I wonder if the pace and lack of speed in our game is down to some players not wanting a bollocking from Berbatov?
Are they looking too much for the perfect ball and not gambling enough with balls into the box or space.
Easiest route is always backwards and we seem to be doing that too much.
Don't get me wrong I don't want to play like Stoke, but last ten minutes showed the urgency we needed in the previous 80.

Posession is key for me. If you have the ball, then the oppoition can't score.

I do agree that we are not urgent enough at times, espically for the majority of the second half. First half I thought was good however. Not much to gamble on with Berbatov as a striker, because he doesnt actually get in the box that often.

I agree possession is the key, but our movement(making angles, running into space) is as poor as  when Cookie was in charge.
Also its fine having the ball for 60% of the time but you have to do something with it.

Yeah no movement too. I hope that gets worked on. Disappointing considering the talent we've got in that 3 behind the striker.

[TonyGilroy]

Piss poor from Berbatov today IMO.

I wish he'd stay up top and not crowd the midfield. He's getting in Ruiz' way and there's not enough movement or personnel ahead to create danger.

[Count Berbatov]

When Ronaldo was at Man Utd, Rooney and Tevez, not to mention Nani and Valencia, there's always a lot of speed and movement. He's used to that. He expects players to start moving once he gets the ball.
It does however begin with keeping possession all this. And after certain players left, there's where Fulham struggles
Don't get mad at him for wanting to keep the ball. The wingers and attacking midfielders, fullbacks...should start moving and attacking the space.
Sometimes I think they lack match fitness or are simply afraid to believe in their own abilities to keep the ball or make tha pass or shoot...

[fulhamben]

When Ronaldo was at Man Utd, Rooney and Tevez, not to mention Nani and Valencia, there's always a lot of speed and movement. He's used to that. He expects players to start moving once he gets the ball.
It does however begin with keeping possession all this. And after certain players left, there's where Fulham struggles
Don't get mad at him for wanting to keep the ball. The wingers and attacking midfielders, fullbacks...should start moving and attacking the space.
Sometimes I think they lack match fitness or are simply afraid to believe in their own abilities to keep the ball or make tha pass or shoot...

but when you play one up front, sometimes that one has to try and score himself. wouldnt kill him to run at a defence and have a shot, hell he even looks good when he occasionally does try it.

[Count Berbatov]

I think Berba wants to play like Barca do (who doesn't). So let me ask you. Who's Barca's centre forward?
...Exactly. They control the ball and everyone attacks, or drops back to recover the ball.
To some it looks like zombie passing, pass, pass, pass, pass....but it frustrates and exhausts the other team.
That's what berba wants. There's no need to play with a typical CF

[fulhamben]

I think Berba wants to play like Barca do (who doesn't). So let me ask you. Who's Barca's centre forward?
...Exactly. They control the ball and everyone attacks, or drops back to recover the ball.
To some it looks like zombie passing, pass, pass, pass, pass....but it frustrates and exhausts the other team.
That's what berba wants. There's no need to play with a typical CF

well then berba signed for the wrong team. cos we will never play like that

[MJG]

I think Berba wants to play like Barca do (who doesn't). So let me ask you. Who's Barca's centre forward?
...Exactly. They control the ball and everyone attacks, or drops back to recover the ball.
To some it looks like zombie passing, pass, pass, pass, pass....but it frustrates and exhausts the other team.
That's what berba wants. There's no need to play with a typical CF

simple...he's at the wrong club then.

[alfie]

I think Berba wants to play like Barca do (who doesn't). So let me ask you. Who's Barca's centre forward?
...Exactly. They control the ball and everyone attacks, or drops back to recover the ball.
To some it looks like zombie passing, pass, pass, pass, pass....but it frustrates and exhausts the other team.
That's what berba wants. There's no need to play with a typical CF

The trouble with that is we do not have Iniesta, Messi, etc etc,  he must know by now the type of players around him and they are just not capable of playing that way, i am afraid today the lazy tag looked like it was earned today, he just was not involved enough, he is a goal scorer but very rarely does he try and shoot.

[Count Berbatov]

I think Berba wants to play like Barca do (who doesn't). So let me ask you. Who's Barca's centre forward?
...Exactly. They control the ball and everyone attacks, or drops back to recover the ball.
To some it looks like zombie passing, pass, pass, pass, pass....but it frustrates and exhausts the other team.
That's what berba wants. There's no need to play with a typical CF

well then berba signed for the wrong team. cos we will never play like that

The system should be chosen according to the players available.
So far, I've seen the speedy players are Kaca, Frei, Hugo, the fullbacks....
I think Jol is pushing the only two options he's got, when you look at the personnel he has.
Either Berb-Ruiz and No typical CF. The threat comes from the wingers or Hugo up front to free space for berba and everyone else. When Rodallega is not on, and the wingers are slow, or do the midfield- not running from behind, or simply they have an off day.....expect to see what you do.
Perhaps you need a larger squad.
Sir Alex once said, that the team can "carry" up to 3 players, if those are not performing on the day. But I realsie your options are limited. Players can't be on their toes all season long. Expect a few off days from everyone. That's all

[fulhamben]

I think Berba wants to play like Barca do (who doesn't). So let me ask you. Who's Barca's centre forward?
...Exactly. They control the ball and everyone attacks, or drops back to recover the ball.
To some it looks like zombie passing, pass, pass, pass, pass....but it frustrates and exhausts the other team.
That's what berba wants. There's no need to play with a typical CF

well then berba signed for the wrong team. cos we will never play like that

The system should be chosen according to the players available.
So far, I've seen the speedy players are Kaca, Frei, Hugo, the fullbacks....
I think Jol is pushing the only two options he's got, when you look at the personnel he has.
Either Berb-Ruiz and No typical CF. The threat comes from the wingers or Hugo up front to free space for berba and everyone else. When Rodallega is not on, and the wingers are slow, or do the midfield- not running from behind, or simply they have an off day.....expect to see what you do.
Perhaps you need a larger squad.
Sir Alex once said, that the team can "carry" up to 3 players, if those are not performing on the day. But I realsie your options are limited. Players can't be on their toes all season long. Expect a few off days from everyone. That's all

very much doubt berba will ever need a day off :)

[leonffc]

I've noticed a lot lately that the team has no direct drive when attacking. Kaca today in the first half showed a bit but playing the ball through Berba AND Ruiz, for all their sublime ability they both slow the game down. Sometimes, especially against WBA someone just needed to get hold of the ball and run directly at them with support either side but it usually ends up slowing down and letting the opposition group between the ball and goal.
Oh and Dejagha isn't the answer I'm
afraid. I thought with his strength he would be a player to do this but he gets a bit lost with the ball too often.

[MikeCdawg]

Bugsy, I agree. We seemed to lack penetration all game.

Surely quick, quick passing is our best option for breaking through packed defences. That, or breaking on the oppostition at speed. Berbatov seems to receive the ball then turn backwards, slowing everything down. I accept that he can do stuff that barely any other player can do and slowing it down like this may benefit him, but does it benefit the team as whole?

That depends. If we are winning, great, it's a really beneficial thing to have....but if we are losing or drawing and looking to go on for the 3 points or to the next round, like today, it can be really frustrating. As said before we doo need a plan B when games aren't going our way. I don't think Jol has the guts to sub Berba in fear of him having the hump...

[somerset cockernee]

i sort of agree about this posession argument to a point,it doe's wear out the opposition,but it also wears out the team playing those tactics. trying to make yourself available all the time requires as much energy as the team trying to deny you aforementioned space ,it kind of cancells itself out no ?   also keep going backwards and sideways just to keep posession don't actually threaten the opposition much.....there thats my bit done

[A Humble Man]

Berbatov was very isolated as Ruiz was generally playing very deep.  We do much better when they keep close.