Could Martin Jol have saved us?

[GloucesterWhite]

LOL. Some on here even blamed him for Saturday's loss  064.gif

The team Jol had after he moved Dembele to CM was probably the best I have seen in my 60 + years following Fulham - although the Jimmy Conway, Les Barratt, Stevie Earle team was probably more exciting. After the Ds were sold it went pear shaped. How quickly people forget.

Agreed - the team that destroyed Norwich 5-0 played some of the best free flowing, 90 minutes displays of attacking football Fulham have played in the Premiership. Unfortunately the follow up display at Old Trafford persuaded Spurs ( and possibly some of the other 'big boys') that they too fancied most of our midfield and the rest was history.
So in answer to the original question - no, Jol could not have saved us this season. In mitigation he did not apparently have any money to use in a number of transfer periods and had to make do with loans and free transfers, but I was particularly disappointed that when we reached 37 points so quickly least season he did not then introduce some younger players with an eye on this season.
So as others have pointed out he was a problem, but not the only one.
The really interesting question to pose however is IF he had been well supported financially over more than one transfer window could he have even moved us up to the next level?
Jol certainly could certainly produce an attacking team - and equally certainly could not balance it with a defensively sound team. Maybe the loss of Ray Lewington to Roy and England afected Fulham more than was apparent at the time!

Funny how, judging by some of the comments on here, only you and I saw that game against Norwich! Beautiful football. THAT was Jol's team. What he was GIVEN after Dembele, Dempsy and Murphy were sold (no jarv, Jol didn't dismantle the team) was the start of the decline. No Jol couldn't make a decent team out of the freebies and loanees he was given following the departure of the heart of his team, but nobody else could either. Whether Jol could have taken us further if money had been spent we will never know. But the way Jol is treated here is very unjust.

[PokerMatt]

LOL. Some on here even blamed him for Saturday's loss  064.gif

The team Jol had after he moved Dembele to CM was probably the best I have seen in my 60 + years following Fulham - although the Jimmy Conway, Les Barratt, Stevie Earle team was probably more exciting. After the Ds were sold it went pear shaped. How quickly people forget.

Agreed - the team that destroyed Norwich 5-0 played some of the best free flowing, 90 minutes displays of attacking football Fulham have played in the Premiership. Unfortunately the follow up display at Old Trafford persuaded Spurs ( and possibly some of the other 'big boys') that they too fancied most of our midfield and the rest was history.
So in answer to the original question - no, Jol could not have saved us this season. In mitigation he did not apparently have any money to use in a number of transfer periods and had to make do with loans and free transfers, but I was particularly disappointed that when we reached 37 points so quickly least season he did not then introduce some younger players with an eye on this season.
So as others have pointed out he was a problem, but not the only one.
The really interesting question to pose however is IF he had been well supported financially over more than one transfer window could he have even moved us up to the next level?
Jol certainly could certainly produce an attacking team - and equally certainly could not balance it with a defensively sound team. Maybe the loss of Ray Lewington to Roy and England afected Fulham more than was apparent at the time!

Funny how, judging by some of the comments on here, only you and I saw that game against Norwich! Beautiful football. THAT was Jol's team. What he was GIVEN after Dembele, Dempsy and Murphy were sold (no jarv, Jol didn't dismantle the team) was the start of the decline. No Jol couldn't make a decent team out of the freebies and loanees he was given following the departure of the heart of his team, but nobody else could either. Whether Jol could have taken us further if money had been spent we will never know. But the way Jol is treated here is very unjust.

The last time I was truly delighted with a Fulham performance.

I backed Jol for a long, long time. Probably too long... but when that team played together at Norwich and Old Trafford few could argue we were heading places.

That we sold the Dems wasn't his fault, but that we didn't replace them it was a big mistake to try to play the same total, fluid football. He wasn't right in the selling situation and he never recovered from that. And he wouldn't have kept us up this season.

[hovewhite]

I supported jol and I believe given the money he could of took us to the next level.however I do think he let himself lose his way. And became very aggresive towards the fans ,in fact I think he was forcing the club to sack him.

[Berserker]

I think MJ had run out of idea's.

[WayneKerrins]

No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS


In a word No.

Nay never....

[Moussa Dembele the 3rd]

No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS


In a word No.

Nay never....

Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.

[ron]

Jol had become a loser, and to quote someone I can't remember...."don't mix with losers,because their despair is contagious"

[WayneKerrins]

No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS


In a word No.

Nay never....

Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.

No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS


In a word No.

Nay never....

Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.

Which of those points can you rebutt? I'm all ears.

[@jolslover]

im actually going to say yes, not sure why just have a feeling he would have turned things around

[epsomraver]

im actually going to say yes, not sure why just have a feeling he would have turned things around

WUM alert!

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

This thread should have been drowned at birth

[Andy S]

I disagree Kcat. I know its not the end of the season yet but there have been some serious mistakes made by the club this season. In my opinion it was never an option to leave Jol in place. He lost not only the players but us the paying supporters as well. We are paying the price following two terrible years of very poor results and football that is not enjoyable. Tell me when was the last time any of us looked forward to a match? Yes, I'll support Felix but I think the managers job here this season has been shown to be a poison chalice.

[Twig]

No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS


In a word No.

Nay never....

Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.

In what sense is this nonsense?   Seems a pretty fair summary to me.

[GloucesterWhite]

No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS


In a word No.

Nay never....

Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.

In what sense is this nonsense?   Seems a pretty fair summary to me.

I feel sorry for youand Wayne Kerrins that you obviously missed out on the exciting football played by Jol's team BEFORE the best players were sold. Maybe you weren't around then? The team since then (when you take out the current loanees) is fit only for the bottom half of the Championship, and that's where we are headed. Why? Because the club's owners did not make money available for quality players. A lot of money should have been spent last summer, instead we got Bent and Taraabt on loan, a freebie centre half, and Parker and Stek.

Yes, Jol went to pieces after the heart of his team was sold. Could anyone have done better? Well nobody has yet. Maybe Magath can get us a few wins now that money has finally been spent, but I can't see him saving us - for a start he seems to prefer to sit and watch
rather than stand on the touchline, one of the failings on your list.

[epsomraver]

One good game against Norwich, that is all, what about the boring limp effort at Europa he masterminded? Sometimes I wished I had a book to read when we played under Jol, we were that boring

[GloucesterWhite]

One good game against Norwich, that is all, what about the boring limp effort at Europa he masterminded? Sometimes I wished I had a book to read when we played under Jol, we were that boring

Then I have to ask you the question you asked me! Did you miss a lot of games?! And Roy's team has been called boring. Oh for some of that same 'boring' now.

[epsomraver]

 0001.jpeg

One good game against Norwich, that is all, what about the boring limp effort at Europa he masterminded? Sometimes I wished I had a book to read when we played under Jol, we were that boring

Then I have to ask you the question you asked me! Did you miss a lot of games?! And Roy's team has been called boring. Oh for some of that same 'boring' now.

0001.jpeg

[LBNo11]

...I agree with Wayne Kerrins' comments, pretty much sums it up for me, as well as the capitulation of the Europa campaign where my doubts about Jol began to formulate.

Just for the record I did endure much of Jol's games, we did have a handful of good games, and capitalised against weak opposition.

We lost the two D's, one of which (Dempsey) everyone seemed to think was not that good and the other Moussa, could have been replaced by Ruinz if he had been up to/for it...

[WayneKerrins]

No tactics
No man management
No ability to manage on budget
No sense when talking to media
No presence on touchline
No sense in choosing coaches
No scruples in buying his agent's clients
No defensive organisation
No attention to fitness
No clue at West Ham away
No idea how to balance a squad (invested scarce resources in three players who play in same position Ruiz, berba and Taraabt)
No real track record in the market Reither..Pog (if you discount luck) déjà at a push...
No sense if priorities: spunked 4m on a GK when funds were tight when we had another season in MS


In a word No.

Nay never....

Jol's last year and a half were indefensible, but this is just nonsense.

In what sense is this nonsense?   Seems a pretty fair summary to me.

I feel sorry for youand Wayne Kerrins that you obviously missed out on the exciting football played by Jol's team BEFORE the best players were sold. Maybe you weren't around then? The team since then (when you take out the current loanees) is fit only for the bottom half of the Championship, and that's where we are headed. Why? Because the club's owners did not make money available for quality players. A lot of money should have been spent last summer, instead we got Bent and Taraabt on loan, a freebie centre half, and Parker and Stek.

Yes, Jol went to pieces after the heart of his team was sold. Could anyone have done better? Well nobody has yet. Maybe Magath can get us a few wins now that money has finally been spent, but I can't see him saving us - for a start he seems to prefer to sit and watch
rather than stand on the touchline, one of the failings on your list.

Risible son, risible.
BTW I've been going to games for a while now, I think its 37 years and about 600. I know a bad manager when I see one and Jol without a big cheque book is a bad manager.