Interesting post from Tiff (if true)

[Canary White]

Won't state his name, but the author of that TIFF article is known to me offline, so I am sure he is posting in good faith and am therefore dismayed. First teams are always transitory, but it's been at youth level that we really seemed to have been laying down longer-term roots. Such investment is confirmed as exempt from Financial Fair Play regulations, so governed only by an owner's own spending policy.

Some people will say this person is a liar and to the extent it might sound like I was doing so in my post above I feel inclined to apologise. However, it's nigh on impossible for any single person to "know" everything in that Tiff post, and it follows that the author is broadcasting hearsay and rumours on a public forum with, at best, reckless disregard for the welfare of the people and organisations being criticised. That's not consistent with "good faith". We're all wrong some of the time but when you claim as fact something that's damaging to others you really should be sure.

[Canary White]

Can someone on this board explain how long our academy contracts with youth players run?  I'm just wondering if the club trains them only to unwittingly find itself nearing a period in time where another club can come in and swoop the player away for big money.  If so, then if I am Khan, I have to wonder where the value is in spending on staff and infrastructure and training of youngsters only to see them picked up by higher ranked clubs when the window opens for them to be able to leave.  Don't get me wrong--I believe in academies and youth farm systems.  Sure works at Barcelona.  But of course Barcelona doesn't have to worry like Fulham would about being outbid by bigger clubs for its promising youth...And that leads me to another question.  In North America, contracts with minors are voidable at the will of the minor.  The law assumes they don't have the sufficient capacity to enter into contracts, and that they are in need of protection from being bound thereby.  Most of our contract law jurisprudence is patterned after the English common law system, so I can't imagine the law in this regard is all that different.  Yes?  So, to me it looks like the academy system at a club like Fulham is a kind of house of cards.  We develop great players, but richer clubs can pick them off if and when some of them bloom.  So, again, if I am Khan, I wonder if this is money well spent.  Make sense?

Like most law I should imagine it varies depending on context but clearly most of our youth (eg Roberts) achieve capacity to contract before they "bloom"

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

If they only run 5/6 miles a day, that's fine and leaves many hours to do all of the other stuff.
I'm sure they get more than the hour Jol had with them each day :0)

I reckon these professional people should know that Roberts needs this and
Dembele needs that and the training is adapted accordingly. to suit every player.
eg: There'd be no point having Voser or Roberts training to attack headers at corners.
The same way it would be ludicrous not to have Smith practicing defending corners
or practicing leaving our slowest player on the halfway line hoping for a quick counter attack

As for cutting the academy, I have no idea how much it costs each year to run, but
if you look at the potential value of the clutch of youngsters we have in and around the
first team (and slightly beyond) who mostly cost nothing to buy surely it would exceed
the costs to run Motspur Academy.

I'm sure Southampton have made a killing selling some off their younger players and although
perhaps we're 3/4 years behind them we could easily do as well, and there's another crop coming
through for us.
In a profession where very few junior players ever make the grade, we have succeeded
remarkably and I can't think of any teams (except Man Utd)  that have had this
many players ready or nearly ready for 1st team football, albeit currently CS

IMO:  Roberts, (both) Williams, David, Hyndman, Woodrow, Kavanagh could all command huge
sale fees as and when the time comes, which sadly we all know will come.

Look what we made on Smalling, compared to how much we paid and how long was he with us ?

If Khan was solely money orientated and didn't give a monkeys about us or the club, financially he'd
probably be better off selling the Football Club and just make money from the Academy by training and then selling the players.

Although I'm sure there's laws against that or a "not-affiliated to a club rule)

[Fulham58]

If they are running 5 or 6 miles a day should it really be that hard to confirm, unless they're running round in circles, it must be quite easy to spot around 25 grown (ish) men dressed in FFC training kit running round south west London

[RidgeRider]

I doubt they are running that much per every day. I would venture they run 3 miles and 6miles on alternating days. Since a typical starting footballer will run about 6 miles in a match, it makes sense to train at the level consistently so on game day they possess the aerobic capacity to keep moving for 90 plus minutes, but my guess is it the training sessions included anaerobic sprinting intervals as well, which is probably included in the distance totals.

To me, for a game that is so running dependent, including match days, you would want your team doing volume days at least 2 to 3 times per week and lighter volume (miles) but more intense days 2 times per week, with proper recovery days as well.

I would doubt they are doing 6 miles every training session.

I could easily see him making the bench players and players not on the game day squad, staying back at Motspur and doing a volume day workout with lots of intervals on game days.

[Burt]

I have no problem with them running 5 to 6 miles a day, given that this is par for the course for distance covered in a typical football match.

Anything to increase stamina is good, given how badly we used to fade in the final 10 minutes over the past couple of seasons.

It would be disappointing if we start cutting back on academy funding, given we are really starting to see the results of what is a long term investment. I am hoping it is not true, but suspect there is substance to it.

[Forever Fulham]

As for cutting the academy, I have no idea how much it costs each year to run, but
if you look at the potential value of the clutch of youngsters we have in and around the
first team (and slightly beyond) who mostly cost nothing to buy surely it would exceed
the costs to run Motspur Academy.

I'm sure Southampton have made a killing selling some off their younger players and although
perhaps we're 3/4 years behind them we could easily do as well, and there's another crop coming
through for us.
In a profession where very few junior players ever make the grade, we have succeeded
remarkably and I can't think of any teams (except Man Utd)  that have had this
many players ready or nearly ready for 1st team football, albeit currently CS

IMO:  Roberts, (both) Williams, David, Hyndman, Woodrow, Kavanagh could all command huge
sale fees as and when the time comes, which sadly we all know will come.

Look what we made on Smalling, compared to how much we paid and how long was he with us ?

That makes sense to me.  Thanks. 

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

My next door neighbour asked me to walk their dog for a week while they were on holiday.
I asked them how far each day and they replied "about 3 miles"
So I agreed to do it but then when I thought some more I realized that I'd be
21 miles away by the end of the week.


With thanks to my Dear Old Dad (RIP) who told this at my wedding.

[WayneKerrins]

Won't state his name, but the author of that TIFF article is known to me offline, so I am sure he is posting in good faith and am therefore dismayed. First teams are always transitory, but it's been at youth level that we really seemed to have been laying down longer-term roots. Such investment is confirmed as exempt from Financial Fair Play regulations, so governed only by an owner's own spending policy.

Some people will say this person is a liar and to the extent it might sound like I was doing so in my post above I feel inclined to apologise. However, it's nigh on impossible for any single person to "know" everything in that Tiff post, and it follows that the author is broadcasting hearsay and rumours on a public forum with, at best, reckless disregard for the welfare of the people and organisations being criticised. That's not consistent with "good faith". We're all wrong some of the time but when you claim as fact something that's damaging to others you really should be sure.

Had a browse through your previous posts in the last 4 days. Kind of answered the questions I had reading your contribution to this thread.

[Canary White]

Won't state his name, but the author of that TIFF article is known to me offline, so I am sure he is posting in good faith and am therefore dismayed. First teams are always transitory, but it's been at youth level that we really seemed to have been laying down longer-term roots. Such investment is confirmed as exempt from Financial Fair Play regulations, so governed only by an owner's own spending policy.

Some people will say this person is a liar and to the extent it might sound like I was doing so in my post above I feel inclined to apologise. However, it's nigh on impossible for any single person to "know" everything in that Tiff post, and it follows that the author is broadcasting hearsay and rumours on a public forum with, at best, reckless disregard for the welfare of the people and organisations being criticised. That's not consistent with "good faith". We're all wrong some of the time but when you claim as fact something that's damaging to others you really should be sure.

Had a browse through your previous posts in the last 4 days. Kind of answered the questions I had reading your contribution to this thread.

Cheers ;)

[EJL]

Did Mark Hughes stay for a sleepover when he visited Sidwell's house? Maybe they ordered a Domino's as well.

[love4ffc]

Nah.  They just sat down smoked a peace pipe and declared their love for one another.  Of course that hasn't gotten Sidwell off the bench. 

[Forever Fulham]

You get Domino's pizza in England?  Yuck.  As pizza franchises go, Domino's has a pretty bad reputation for quality over here.  Started in Detroit by Tom Monaghan.  Like eating cardboard (IMHO).  Went head to head against Little Caesar's (interestingly, another Detroit-based pizza franchise empire).  Is Little Caesar's also in Britain now?

[Berserker]

Not heard of Little Caesar's pizza in the UK, but I'm not a big pizza eater so msy have just missed them

[westcliff white]

If they are running 5 or 6 miles a day should it really be that hard to confirm, unless they're running round in circles, it must be quite easy to spot around 25 grown (ish) men dressed in FFC training kit running round south west London

I doubt very much it is street running, it is mor likely at Motspur, comprising of sprints and endurance running

[TheManOnTheBus]

Can someone on this board explain how long our academy contracts with youth players run?  I'm just wondering if the club trains them only to unwittingly find itself nearing a period in time where another club can come in and swoop the player away for big money.  If so, then if I am Khan, I have to wonder where the value is in spending on staff and infrastructure and training of youngsters only to see them picked up by higher ranked clubs when the window opens for them to be able to leave.  Don't get me wrong--I believe in academies and youth farm systems.  Sure works at Barcelona.  But of course Barcelona doesn't have to worry like Fulham would about being outbid by bigger clubs for its promising youth...And that leads me to another question.  In North America, contracts with minors are voidable at the will of the minor.  The law assumes they don't have the sufficient capacity to enter into contracts, and that they are in need of protection from being bound thereby.  Most of our contract law jurisprudence is patterned after the English common law system, so I can't imagine the law in this regard is all that different.  Yes?  So, to me it looks like the academy system at a club like Fulham is a kind of house of cards.  We develop great players, but richer clubs can pick them off if and when some of them bloom.  So, again, if I am Khan, I wonder if this is money well spent.  Make sense?

Yes - under 18 yr olds cannot easily be bound to contracts. However, the FA/UEFA etc sort it out by having rules (in effect agreements between the clubs) to pay "compensation" if a developed youth is taken on professionally by another club.

[Two Ton Ted]

Won't state his name, but the author of that TIFF article is known to me offline, so I am sure he is posting in good faith and am therefore dismayed. First teams are always transitory, but it's been at youth level that we really seemed to have been laying down longer-term roots. Such investment is confirmed as exempt from Financial Fair Play regulations, so governed only by an owner's own spending policy.

Some people will say this person is a liar and to the extent it might sound like I was doing so in my post above I feel inclined to apologise. However, it's nigh on impossible for any single person to "know" everything in that Tiff post, and it follows that the author is broadcasting hearsay and rumours on a public forum with, at best, reckless disregard for the welfare of the people and organisations being criticised. That's not consistent with "good faith". We're all wrong some of the time but when you claim as fact something that's damaging to others you really should be sure.

I too know the original TIFF poster and have done for some years, and I agree entirely with Canary White,

[TonyGilroy]

I'd suggest that he is reporting truthfully what he has been told by someone he believes is in a position to know. I'd also suggest that the poster will have been genuinely alarmed by what he was told.

Doesn't make it true of course but it does have high credibility.

[b+w geezer]

As Tony says. I will, however, agree that the poster was too scattergun, not least for optimum effect on his own terms. He'd have done better from every point of view to stick to the youth aspect. There'd have been more responses about the message than the messenger.

[LBNo11]

...people are naturally sceptical about conspiracy theories from mere fans who must be mass speculating based on rumour and conjecture, and their patent hatred for the club, i mean, how the hell would they know what's going on at the club? These rumour-mongers are proven to be nothing but fakes as they won't reveal their sources, absolute give away, they're not protecting people who have grave concerns about what is happening at the club, no, they're non-fans who don't speak for the majority, so their cannot be any credence in what they say - can there?

To those who think all is sweetness and light at the club - at all levels - or even at any level, you are just the sort of fans the club want...