NFR - Watching Reading tonight

[Admin]

Jamie Mackie run his absolute socks of all game. Never been gifted enough to be a good Premiership player, but in the Championship, I think he'd be an asset to any team pushing for promotion. Always full of energy and gives 100% effort. Having the likes of him and say McCormack running at defenses would give the best of teams problems. Give me 11 of him any day of the week.

[YankeeJim]

Are you talking about Hugo? 

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Another strange suggestion: buy a player who will be an asset in the Championship but one who hasn't enough talent to be good in the PL (turning your argument around).

As with managers with Championship experience, why get in someone who would be useful for a year but then would be out of their depth, according to the analysis, if we were successful and got promoted?

[Admin]

Another strange suggestion: buy a player who will be an asset in the Championship but one who hasn't enough talent to be good in the PL (turning your argument around).

As with managers with Championship experience, why get in someone who would be useful for a year but then would be out of their depth, according to the analysis, if we were successful and got promoted?

I agree with what you say, but as a squad player, how much would Mackie cost at 29-30 in the Championship, 1.5 million-ish? For a promotion push, its worth the bunce, and a utility player you can sit on the bench in the Premiership, or flog on again for near enough the same price. It's not an argument really, it's more of a no-brainer

[MasterHaynes]

Why do we always look at other players who have never really made it, having a good game and instantly believe they offer more than we have. I'd rather have Woodrow than Mackie any day of the week and use the money eleswhere

[MJG]

Another strange suggestion: buy a player who will be an asset in the Championship but one who hasn't enough talent to be good in the PL (turning your argument around).

As with managers with Championship experience, why get in someone who would be useful for a year but then would be out of their depth, according to the analysis, if we were successful and got promoted?

I agree with what you say, but as a squad player, how much would Mackie cost at 29-30 in the Championship, 1.5 million-ish? For a promotion push, its worth the bunce, and a utility player you can sit on the bench in the Premiership, or flog on again for near enough the same price. It's not an argument really, it's more of a no-brainer

I've said it recently but been ignored by people to discuss,  used to that :-), but really this season has proved in the Prem that you build a team to get promotion and then build one to stay up.

It's great to think you buy players who will help you in the PL,  while getting you out the Champ,  but in reality the jobbing 25 year old plus who's never played in the PL will probably not be up to it.
Younger players have a chance to improve but in a way you sign Mackie,  Turner etc to get up and then dump them like a stone in the summer you go up and get better quality in.

Promotion means you need 6-8 new first team players,  probably starters but at least in the matchday 18.

[Fernhurst]

It can be plainly seen at this point in the season the 3 promotees from last years Championship are heading straight back down.
If a formula is to be had based on their experience, a huge influx needs to take place (where you find such quality and persuade them to come to Fulham FC requires an entirely separate post) just to prevent such scenes witnessed at Sunderland last weekend! The exodus we saw against Bournemouth surprised me and reinforced my view, folk are increasingly more interested in the result than just supporting their team.
A real dilemma in the making, however, let's get to the position of having that dilemma

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Another strange suggestion: buy a player who will be an asset in the Championship but one who hasn't enough talent to be good in the PL (turning your argument around).

As with managers with Championship experience, why get in someone who would be useful for a year but then would be out of their depth, according to the analysis, if we were successful and got promoted?

I agree with what you say, but as a squad player, how much would Mackie cost at 29-30 in the Championship, 1.5 million-ish? For a promotion push, its worth the bunce, and a utility player you can sit on the bench in the Premiership, or flog on again for near enough the same price. It's not an argument really, it's more of a no-brainer

I've said it recently but been ignored by people to discuss,  used to that :-), but really this season has proved in the Prem that you build a team to get promotion and then build one to stay up.

It's great to think you buy players who will help you in the PL,  while getting you out the Champ,  but in reality the jobbing 25 year old plus who's never played in the PL will probably not be up to it.
Younger players have a chance to improve but in a way you sign Mackie,  Turner etc to get up and then dump them like a stone in the summer you go up and get better quality in.

Promotion means you need 6-8 new first team players,  probably starters but at least in the matchday 18.

I am sure you need some 'Championship' players to get out of the Championship but some would say we have quite enough of those already.

It is more the priority of buying Championship players over buying a few key players that will form the core of a PL team.

The thought of returning to the PL without having a core of PL ready players seems to me a bad idea and one that causes those promoted to be prime candidates to return quickly to the Championship.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

It can be plainly seen at this point in the season the 3 promotees from last years Championship are heading straight back down.
If a formula is to be had based on their experience, a huge influx needs to take place (where you find such quality and persuade them to come to Fulham FC requires an entirely separate post) just to prevent such scenes witnessed at Sunderland last weekend! The exodus we saw against Bournemouth surprised me and reinforced my view, folk are increasingly more interested in the result than just supporting their team.
A real dilemma in the making, however, let's get to the position of having that dilemma

[MJG]

Another strange suggestion: buy a player who will be an asset in the Championship but one who hasn't enough talent to be good in the PL (turning your argument around).

As with managers with Championship experience, why get in someone who would be useful for a year but then would be out of their depth, according to the analysis, if we were successful and got promoted?

I agree with what you say, but as a squad player, how much would Mackie cost at 29-30 in the Championship, 1.5 million-ish? For a promotion push, its worth the bunce, and a utility player you can sit on the bench in the Premiership, or flog on again for near enough the same price. It's not an argument really, it's more of a no-brainer

I've said it recently but been ignored by people to discuss,  used to that :-), but really this season has proved in the Prem that you build a team to get promotion and then build one to stay up.

It's great to think you buy players who will help you in the PL,  while getting you out the Champ,  but in reality the jobbing 25 year old plus who's never played in the PL will probably not be up to it.
Younger players have a chance to improve but in a way you sign Mackie,  Turner etc to get up and then dump them like a stone in the summer you go up and get better quality in.

Promotion means you need 6-8 new first team players,  probably starters but at least in the matchday 18.

I am sure you need some 'Championship' players to get out of the Championship but some would say we have quite enough of those already.

It is more the priority of buying Championship players over buying a few key players that will form the core of a PL team.

The thought of returning to the PL without having a core of PL ready players seems to me a bad idea and one that causes those promoted to be prime candidates to return quickly to the Championship.

But we are seeing two teams from last season who walked the championship come down because basically those players are not good enough.
You won't get Prem players to play in championship on hope we get promoted.
It's hard core to get out and then new hard core of players to stay up.
The youngsters who should stay around as they can improve.

[Logicalman]

Another strange suggestion: buy a player who will be an asset in the Championship but one who hasn't enough talent to be good in the PL (turning your argument around).

As with managers with Championship experience, why get in someone who would be useful for a year but then would be out of their depth, according to the analysis, if we were successful and got promoted?

I agree with what you say, but as a squad player, how much would Mackie cost at 29-30 in the Championship, 1.5 million-ish? For a promotion push, its worth the bunce, and a utility player you can sit on the bench in the Premiership, or flog on again for near enough the same price. It's not an argument really, it's more of a no-brainer

I've said it recently but been ignored by people to discuss,  used to that :-), but really this season has proved in the Prem that you build a team to get promotion and then build one to stay up.

It's great to think you buy players who will help you in the PL,  while getting you out the Champ,  but in reality the jobbing 25 year old plus who's never played in the PL will probably not be up to it.
Younger players have a chance to improve but in a way you sign Mackie,  Turner etc to get up and then dump them like a stone in the summer you go up and get better quality in.

Promotion means you need 6-8 new first team players,  probably starters but at least in the matchday 18.

You are perfectly correct. The most recent example of that would be Southampton, having gained promotion in 2012 they added some 8 players to their squad for the campaign :
Gastón Ramírez
Jay Rodríguez
Emmanuel Mayuka
Vegard Forren
Nathaniel Clyne
Paulo Gazzaniga
Maya Yoshida
Steven Davis

This list doesn't include the return of loanees and other academy players that moved up the ranks. Given Sotons success, that appears to be a good recipe.

[Domino 1879]

Isn't it the reality that we need to scour Europe (EEC) for players who have the skill, energy and appetite for playing in England?  Preferably under 25/26 years old?  In our present position we are unlikely to attract decent players in England - they are either too old or too greedy, or both.  Any really decent younger player is likely (but not always) to be signed up to a Premier team and we dont want to end up being a team of loanees or a 'feeder' club.

This suggests of course that we have a mangement team with first class contacts.  Roy managed to bring in a few players because of his European connections.  Lets hope Rigg does the same because KS is lacking in that department.

[jarv]

Why do we talk on here about the premier division. Fulham is a bottom 6 championship team and will be next season without almost a complete rebuild which will cost money. The needs are to find the right players (and manager) to make them a top 6 club and then, maybe......

[Bill2]

Jamie Mackie run his absolute socks of all game. Never been gifted enough to be a good Premiership player, but in the Championship, I think he'd be an asset to any team pushing for promotion. Always full of energy and gives 100% effort. Having the likes of him and say McCormack running at defenses would give the best of teams problems. Give me 11 of him any day of the week.

Have to agree he was really up for it today, however, I am surprised the ref did not show him a yellow card for his aggressive fouling throughout the game. I have seen players have an early bath for what he did the entire game.

[MJG]

Why do we talk on here about the premier division. Fulham is a bottom 6 championship team and will be next season without almost a complete rebuild which will cost money. The needs are to find the right players (and manager) to make them a top 6 club and then, maybe......

Because if you are looking to go up you have to plan ahead. ;-)

I dont think we are that far from a top six side. Now you can disagree with that if you like but get 3 possibly 4 starters added to the squad we have and thats enough to compete at that level.I dont believe a complete rebuild is needed at all. We have a basis of a decent championship squad and you start with that.
What you dont do is go around throwing 3/4 year contracts to run of the mill players who wont help the cause in the prem if you get there.

I asked this question the other day, but if we had found ourselves in the playoffs and promoted with this squad, how many would have been good enough to help in stay in the PL? Not many of those over 23 would be staying I reckon.

[BalDrick]

Didn't watch all of it - actually enjoyed the half-time talk more - but my thought was that Clarke's really turned them into a really tough outfit. I'm sure Mackie wasn't built like that when he played for Rangers. Quite pleased we're done playing them this season frankly

[ScalleysDad]

Promotion from the Championship and relegation from the Prem could be heading for a ridiculous pattern whereby we have ten sides sharing a cycle of continuously going up with the strongest team in the Championship and dropping down with one of the weaker teams in the Prem and a shed load of money. The bottom 5/6 places and top 5/6 places have been fairly constant for ages, a league within two leagues almost, and I can see the same happening again next season and we are a long way from being part of that group. However the impact of Prem club loanees at the likes of Boro, Watford and Derby cannot be underestimated, puts our two in their place with the jury out on Turner, and if they are called back to their parent Clubs all of the newly promoted Clubs will have huge gaps to fill straight away and the pattern will continue. Of the current bottom six in The Prem the three that survive will undoubtedly be there again next year.
For the teams trying to get into that top six Championship group the likes of Mackie are crucial. We had the Mackie discussion a while back, might have been during the Berbatov malaise, when we desperately needed somebody of his ilk to lead the line but we do not seem to be able to attract that type of player either as a transfer or as a loanee. Actually I would struggle to name the last loanee who got me out of my seat.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Another strange suggestion: buy a player who will be an asset in the Championship but one who hasn't enough talent to be good in the PL (turning your argument around).

As with managers with Championship experience, why get in someone who would be useful for a year but then would be out of their depth, according to the analysis, if we were successful and got promoted?

I agree with what you say, but as a squad player, how much would Mackie cost at 29-30 in the Championship, 1.5 million-ish? For a promotion push, its worth the bunce, and a utility player you can sit on the bench in the Premiership, or flog on again for near enough the same price. It's not an argument really, it's more of a no-brainer

I've said it recently but been ignored by people to discuss,  used to that :-), but really this season has proved in the Prem that you build a team to get promotion and then build one to stay up.

It's great to think you buy players who will help you in the PL,  while getting you out the Champ,  but in reality the jobbing 25 year old plus who's never played in the PL will probably not be up to it.
Younger players have a chance to improve but in a way you sign Mackie,  Turner etc to get up and then dump them like a stone in the summer you go up and get better quality in.

Promotion means you need 6-8 new first team players,  probably starters but at least in the matchday 18.

I am sure you need some 'Championship' players to get out of the Championship but some would say we have quite enough of those already.

It is more the priority of buying Championship players over buying a few key players that will form the core of a PL team.

The thought of returning to the PL without having a core of PL ready players seems to me a bad idea and one that causes those promoted to be prime candidates to return quickly to the Championship.

But we are seeing two teams from last season who walked the championship come down because basically those players are not good enough.
You won't get Prem players to play in championship on hope we get promoted.
It's hard core to get out and then new hard core of players to stay up.
The youngsters who should stay around as they can improve.

That is exactly my point but I will add that bringing in a new core after promotion and hoping that they will gel is also risky.

Of course it is unlikely that you will get PL players who are regulars to drop down but you might get some who are not regulars at their club or the likes of a Hangeland or Saha who have the potential rather than settle for those whose limits are realistically the Championship such as Mackie

If we returned to the PL then we would still need additional quality.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Why do we talk on here about the premier division. Fulham is a bottom 6 championship team and will be next season without almost a complete rebuild which will cost money. The needs are to find the right players (and manager) to make them a top 6 club and then, maybe......

I don't think it works like that. Did we try to consolidate our place in the Championship when we came up from the third tier or did we try to push on through?

I don't mean that we should spend silly money on fees or wages but I think you need to be looking for players with potential and ambition for the PL not those who will help you avoid relegation and put you in a comfortable place in the top half of the Championship.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

By the way, why are we talking about Mackie when we have Smith and Woodrow?