Transfer Embargo

[Chutney]

Does anyone know how this works?

I understand that an embargo would mean that we are unable to make any permanent transfers, but does it also prevent us from completing loan deals/ free transfers etc?

[MJG]

Depends on the deal a club makes with the league. Many variations to punishment league give to clubs.

[Chutney]

I'd presume it would have to be similar to that imposed on blackburn?

[FPT]

I believe that you are embargoed until you can demonstrate that you have stayed within the operating and investment limits.

I don't think you are allowed to bring anybody in unless your squad is under 24 men. If that is the case and you have less than 24 people in your squad, you can make free transfers of about £10k a week maximum in wages; the same applies to loan transfers, we cannot pay a loan fee and can only pay £10k a week in wages towards that loan deal.

Despite selling Michail Antonio, Jamaal Lascelles and Karl Darlow for £14m in the past two seasons, I think Nottingham Forest are still under embargo. They are a up there for average attendances too, and I imagine their wage bill is a hell of a lot lower than ours also... We'll see what happens, I'm sure a potential embargo for us would be announced before January?

[westcliff white]

i have heard a rumour in the next 7 days or so there could be an announcement

[Wearethewhites]

We're more than likely going to get hit with it, so I suggest that fans start to prepare their selves for the news.

[Chutney]

i have heard a rumour in the next 7 days or so there could be an announcement

Hopefully this is the case, I think it will tie in to the head coach decision and as soon as the embargo business is cleared up everything else should fall in to place!

[MJG]

This is what Blackburn, Forest and Leeds were hit with:

The Football League has also confirmed the way in which FFP embargoes will operate for clubs placed under this sanction.

Clubs will be prohibited from registering any new professional players (permanent contract or loan) unless they have:

•    24 or fewer established players (players aged 21 or over that have made at least 5 starting appearances for the club).

Where clubs have fewer than 24 established players, they will only be permitted to sign players in the following circumstances (with the player in question being added to the club's list of established players regardless of his age or previous playing experience):

•    Where the employee costs of a player being signed are less than £600,000 per annum (or pro-rata if signed on a shorter contract).

Where clubs have 24 established players, they will be permitted to trade on a 'one out, one in' basis but only if the employee costs of the player coming in to the club are no more than whichever is the lower amount of:

•    75% of the equivalent costs of the player going out.
•    Or a maximum of £600,000 per annum (or pro-rata if signed on shorter contract)

In addition:

•    Clubs under an FFP embargo will be permitted to sign a goalkeeper on an emergency basis (in line with existing regulations).
•    Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay transfer fees or compensation fees for professional players.
•    Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay a loan fee to another club, they may only pay the player's wage (or a contribution towards it).
•    For incoming players, clubs can only pay Agents' Fees as a benefit in kind to the player in question (as long as they do not exceed the £600,000 employee costs limit).

[BedsFFC]

I dont pretend to understand the rules.

Can someone explain to me how getting rid of 90% of the first team between relegation and first game of new season, put us into a position of breaking rules? The only high earners left were Parker & Rodellaga.

If it is the case, I would suggest that the best option if you went up is not to spend a penny, earn a fortune and then get relegated and build again.

[westcliff white]

i have heard a rumour in the next 7 days or so there could be an announcement

Hopefully this is the case, I think it will tie in to the head coach decision and as soon as the embargo business is cleared up everything else should fall in to place!

I do not think it will tie in (if by that you mean an announcement at the same time etc), I think any coach coming in will not want to join until we have rectified the situation, so it is a possibility a head coach may not arrive until next summer (admittedly thats a worse case scenario).

[N_O_W_S]

I dont pretend to understand the rules.

Can someone explain to me how getting rid of 90% of the first team between relegation and first game of new season, put us into a position of breaking rules? The only high earners left were Parker & Rodellaga.

If it is the case, I would suggest that the best option if you went up is not to spend a penny, earn a fortune and then get relegated and build again.

To answer your question it honestly depends how the club structured its debt.

Fees for players are rarely paid in one go and often get broken down over there contract length. In some cases clubs may choose to pay off more than the annual value if that makes sense. I believe when we got relegated that is exactly what we did and why our loss figures are fairly hair raising.

Also, we aren't in the premier league with premier league gates. Mid week and half capacity gates cant help the coffers much! Must have a large effect.

I'm sure someone will be along to add / correct!

[MJG]

I dont pretend to understand the rules.

Can someone explain to me how getting rid of 90% of the first team between relegation and first game of new season, put us into a position of breaking rules? The only high earners left were Parker & Rodellaga.

If it is the case, I would suggest that the best option if you went up is not to spend a penny, earn a fortune and then get relegated and build again.

Its complicated and its not just a full set of accounts they look at.
We were not just left with Parker and Hugo on a wage, Stek & Trogg as well, also not everyone left by July 1st which is the start of the accounting period.

In a nutshell you lose over 50M a year getting relegated, ok you get 25M in parachute payments, but you also lose other income elsewhere. If You have a wage Bill pushing the 80M barrier you can see how much you have to cut it. A championship club will have a wage bill anywhere between 10-35M. Brighton for example in 14/15 season  had a wage bill of just over 20M. Blackburn in 13/14 ..the year their accounts were seen to give them an embargo was at 35M.

Its very hard to come down and clear the decks and stay within the requirements. You cant just let everyone go for free.

[N_O_W_S]

Its very hard to come down and clear the decks and stay within the requirements. You cant just let everyone go for free.

Especially if its the club that want to slim the books and not the player. It may be there is still time on the contract, which of course, cant be terminated for free and would be more money being paid out.

[res]

 So how is the Pat Roberts' money accounted for? My understanding is that we got £4.5m up front, a further £1m when he made his first appearance and payments up to £11m once he had played a certain number of games. Do the accounts for the year in question just show the £4.5m, and only being able to  credit further payments into future  accounts when they are received...or can we credit the initial accounts with amounts which are reasonably certain to be receivable in the future on the assumption that he will play a few games for Man. City (as the transfer was done in the period of the initial accounts)

[MJG]

So how is the Pat Roberts' money accounted for? My understanding is that we got £4.5m up front, a further £1m when he made his first appearance and payments up to £11m once he had played a certain number of games. Do the accounts for the year in question just show the £4.5m, and only being able to  credit further payments into future  accounts when they are received...or can we credit the initial accounts with amounts which are reasonably certain to be receivable in the future on the assumption that he will play a few games for Man. City (as the transfer was done in the period of the initial accounts)

For a start it was not in the financal year for 14/15 so his figures will be in next years accounts and lge review.

For a transfer out the accounts will show the money received only and no 'potential' income.

[bill taylors apprentice]

At the moment I'm more interested in how we have got to this point!

So, in simple terms, our TV income was massively out of proportion to any other form of income while in the PL and we spent the vast majority on the players salary.

Once relegated any cutbacks in off field areas were only going to be a drop in the ocean compared to high earning players on contracts.

Now we are fighting to bring our outgoings in line with our income and this is to be mainly achieved by reducing the players wage bill (and transfer fees) to a more manageable percentage of our income.

Is that it ?

[MJG]

At the moment I'm more interested in how we have got to this point!

So, in simple terms, our TV income was massively out of proportion to any other form of income while in the PL and we spent the vast majority on the players salary.

Once relegated any cutbacks in off field areas were only going to be a drop in the ocean compared to high earning players on contracts.

Now we are fighting to bring our outgoings in line with our income and this is to be mainly achieved by reducing the players wage bill (and transfer fees) to a more manageable percentage of our income.

Is that it ?

pretty much yes.

[Domino 1879]

You would have thought that with Khans business contacts he could have persuaded a number of companies to sponsor the club thereby increasing income and avoiding any possible breach of ffp?  Still cant understand why his car parts company cant be a major sponsor.

Surely where theres a will theres a way?

[Wimbledon_White]

I can see it now...The Flex'n'Gate Craven Cottage.

Billy The Badger, sponsored by QuickFit.

Or like they do in League Two...that Ivan lad on the mic...
"Fulham Substitution - sponsored by Calgon - coming off number 9 Matt Smith, is replaced by number whatever Cauley Woodrow. Washing Machines live longer with Calgon"

I sh1t you not; at the Cobblers, even the substitutions are sponsored.

[MJG]

You would have thought that with Khans business contacts he could have persuaded a number of companies to sponsor the club thereby increasing income and avoiding any possible breach of ffp?  Still cant understand why his car parts company cant be a major sponsor.

Surely where theres a will theres a way?

You can't just have an above going  rate of sponsorship to get round these things. I've seen people say just get a sponsor and say it's 50m,  that just won't wash.