martin

[millsy]

I don't believe there is any conscious decision for anyone not passing to him but in the last two games I noticed at least a couple of instances where Martin was better placed than the man who actually received the ball. I think the problem is that he doesn't seem eager enough to make the runs, either attacking space in front of goal, nor for that matter attacking balls played across the face.

I agree Martin is quite clinical when given space, as when inexplicably left totally unmarked by Preston but I also noted a break last night where Cairney escaped alone with the ball at his feet up our right wing. Due to the speed of the break only Martin was upfield and he did sprint to keep up but unfortunately when Tom looked across for someone, all he would have seen was two defenders sprinting back, with Martin's white shirt hidden behind them and totally unavailable.

Seems to me Martin wants balls laid on a plate for him. Don't know how many times we got in behind Preston and Leeds and laid balls in. Can't remember Martin getting on the end of one. Just not acceptable for a striker in a promotion chasing team, in my view.

[Twig]

I don't believe there is any conscious decision for anyone not passing to him but in the last two games I noticed at least a couple of instances where Martin was better placed than the man who actually received the ball. I think the problem is that he doesn't seem eager enough to make the runs, either attacking space in front of goal, nor for that matter attacking balls played across the face.

I agree Martin is quite clinical when given space, as when inexplicably left totally unmarked by Preston but I also noted a break last night where Cairney escaped alone with the ball at his feet up our right wing. Due to the speed of the break only Martin was upfield and he did sprint to keep up but unfortunately when Tom looked across for someone, all he would have seen was two defenders sprinting back, with Martin's white shirt hidden behind them and totally unavailable.

Seems to me Martin wants balls laid on a plate for him. Don't know how many times we got in behind Preston and Leeds and laid balls in. Can't remember Martin getting on the end of one. Just not acceptable for a striker in a promotion chasing team, in my view.

I just think he lacks half a yard of pace and in our team that is a huge problem.

[Samsara]

Against Preston, Martin made countless runs but it was almost as if the team are reluctant to pass to him unless he is irrefutably the best option available.

Martin wasn't really a factor in the match today, overall a bit of a no mark, but not necessarily all his fault - again he was generally starved of service. Like him or not, give him the right service and odds are he will put the ball in the net as his record shows.

Not standing up for him or digging him out - just an objective observation.

Don't want him here next season though regardless of his situation with Derby, his bridges are well and truly burned. Would give anything to see Tammy Abraham here either on loan or permanent next season - I honestly think he'd be the missing piece of our attacking jigsaw.

+1

[Samsara]

It seems every game, Martin has some existential crisis which determines whether he'll play well for us. That being said, there definitely have been times this season where he has found space in the box only to see a shot taken or a simple pass played elsewhere. Maybe Mcclaren makes Martin more of a talisman than we do. So his allegiance is where he feels more important. Which is unfortunate. Who knows though.

[NogoodBoyo]

I don't believe there is any conscious decision for anyone not passing to him but in the last two games I noticed at least a couple of instances where Martin was better placed than the man who actually received the ball. I think the problem is that he doesn't seem eager enough to make the runs, either attacking space in front of goal, nor for that matter attacking balls played across the face.

I agree Martin is quite clinical when given space, as when inexplicably left totally unmarked by Preston but I also noted a break last night where Cairney escaped alone with the ball at his feet up our right wing. Due to the speed of the break only Martin was upfield and he did sprint to keep up but unfortunately when Tom looked across for someone, all he would have seen was two defenders sprinting back, with Martin's white shirt hidden behind them and totally unavailable.

Seems to me Martin wants balls laid on a plate for him. Don't know how many times we got in behind Preston and Leeds and laid balls in. Can't remember Martin getting on the end of one. Just not acceptable for a striker in a promotion chasing team, in my view.

I just think he lacks half a yard of pace and in our team that is a huge problem.

This says it all.
Nogood "in a nutbag, see" Boyo

[Fulham 442]

I thought he looked lazy, disinterested and well off the pace.  Made a couple of half hearted jogs in the  vicinity of the box but tbh looked like he couldn't be bothered.  I was glad when he was subbed.  I'll be even happier when he has gone back to Derby and we can replace him with someone who actually cares about the team, as the rest of them clearly do.

[Southcoastffc]

Just a question which I think might be pertinent - if Chris Martin is fat/lazy/useless/slow/sh** etc, why does Jokanovic pick him either to start or on the bench?  Might SJ's judgement be a little more sound than some of CM's detractors who have posted on this thread?

[davew]

Just a question which I think might be pertinent - if Chris Martin is fat/lazy/useless/slow/sh** etc, why does Jokanovic pick him either to start or on the bench?  Might SJ's judgement be a little more sound than some of CM's detractors who have posted on this thread?

And the option to pick another goalscorer to Martin is........oh yes Martin (lol). There are no other options!!! SJ can't really win, if he picks him and we lose and he can't win if he doesn't pick him and we lose, fortunately we don't keep losing! I wouldn't agree with all of the adjectives which you use that some have described Martin as, mine would be far worse and not quotable on this forum.

[Neil D]

I thought Martin put a lot of work in last night as he did against Preston. It is true tho' as someone said the other day, Cairney won't pass to him.

That was me.  Still happening, then.

[Holders]

I thought Martin put a lot of work in last night as he did against Preston. It is true tho' as someone said the other day, Cairney won't pass to him.

That was me.  Still happening, then.

Yet, they're supposed to be rooming together and Martin doing Tom's ironing.

[Neil D]

I thought Martin put a lot of work in last night as he did against Preston. It is true tho' as someone said the other day, Cairney won't pass to him.

That was me.  Still happening, then.

Yet, they're supposed to be rooming together and Martin doing Tom's ironing.

Maybe he lets him iron his underpants before they get washed...

[YankeeJim]

I find it interesting that so many know what is in Martin's heart. His face is often expressionless, but that may simply indicate that he is a private type person. His style doesn't necessarily fit that of the team but when we got him (please recall that everyone was screaming for a top striker), he was the best available. That also might explain why sometimes nothing much happens in a given window. We went out and got the Greek because we HAD to have somebody. We took a gamble on him and it failed. Key the Khan slamming. We on here, know nothing of what is going on in the transfer market. Yet, the "experts" never seem to quiet.
Gotta love football. Opinions are fact and facts are imagined. 

[AnEssexFan]

I thought Martin put in a good shift last night. He made a number of good runs into the channels and we passed backwards or sideways instead of into him. When we got the ball wide he pulled off of his man and found space in the box awaiting a cross to attack and we played backwards rather than put crosses in to him. Martin is a goalscorer but can only score if given the service, playing around out wide and teeing up shots on the edge of the box does not suit his style and is why he looks bad playing for us. Get quick balls into him and he'll score.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I find the assessments and allowances made by some on here for Martin bizarre.

We are talking about a player who, if I remember correctly, is costing us over £2m + wages on loan this season and would cost us approximately another £7m to take on permanently. Does he look like a £9m player to anyone here? Does he look worth two or three times more than even the next most expensive players in our squad?

Does Martin deserve a place on the team sheet ahead of Kebano, Aluko, Ayite, PIazon or, now, Cyriac? Not in my estimation. Yes, it would be good to have some variety in the skills on offer amongst our forwards because the others are rather alike but not at the cost of impact and goal threat.

Wouldn't you expect a £9m pound player to create some opportunities for himself or to cause the opposition defence some trouble? His so called runs are very ordinary and don't demand a pass from the player on the ball.

The other ten players (and substitutes) seem to be on the same wavelength and are playing well together so why does Martin look as though he does not fit in? Why does need excuses like they are not passing him the ball as though he was the oddball kid in a playground game of football?

Posters have been keen in the past to abuse Bent for his lack of impact and also Berbatov (unfairly in my opinion) and at Zamora for his attitude. Martin does a comparable amount of shrugging and moaning but offers little to compensate.

Let's have no more rose tinted views or excuses. He has never performed to the level we would expect and his attitude does not come near that of the rest of the squad. Is he really going to make the difference to us getting in the playoffs or not? I don't think so. Is he good enough to be a PL forward? Definitely not. He is beyond rehabilitation. I cannot wait to see him leave and for us to acquire a forward of genuine quality and commitment.

And that does not even take into account him going on strike!

[toshes mate]

Martin has never performed to the level we would expect and his attitude does not come near that of the rest of the squad.

That is the question SJ has faced on a game by game basis the whole season from September on, but one option he has never been given (for whatever reason) is an alternative rated striker to Martin.  His other options prior to January also fell short of the required standard but January yielded little relief beyond the promise Cyriac may flourish in this team when he has settled.  Aluko, Ayite, Piazon, and Kebano can both score goals and cause problems that lead to others in the team scoring goals and so I believe this to be one of SJ's training ground options.   An off form Martin simply isn't good enough for anything other than bench duty or as a decoy runner provided SJ has someone else in the team who can move around to cause defences to lose shape, pass the ball, and score goals.  The four mentioned already plus Cyriac can do all the things Martin mostly does and do them better, unless Martin is playing like a multi-million pound player.

[Southcoastffc]

Just a question which I think might be pertinent - if Chris Martin is fat/lazy/useless/slow/sh** etc, why does Jokanovic pick him either to start or on the bench?  Might SJ's judgement be a little more sound than some of CM's detractors who have posted on this thread?

And the option to pick another goalscorer to Martin is........oh yes Martin (lol). There are no other options!!! SJ can't really win, if he picks him and we lose and he can't win if he doesn't pick him and we lose, fortunately we don't keep losing! I wouldn't agree with all of the adjectives which you use that some have described Martin as, mine would be far worse and not quotable on this forum.

2 obvious alternatives to Martin are Cyriac and Kebano (who has said quite plainly that he enjoys playing anywhere up front).  My main comment stands - if Martin is so poor, howcome SJ picks him.  Or is SSJ's footballing knowledge and tactical acumen less than those who knock Martin? 

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I find the assessments and allowances made by some on here for Martin bizarre.

We are talking about a player who, if I remember correctly, is costing us over £2m + wages on loan this season and would cost us approximately another £7m to take on permanently. Does he look like a £9m player to anyone here? Does he look worth two or three times more than even the next most expensive players in our squad?

Does Martin deserve a place on the team sheet ahead of Kebano, Aluko, Ayite, PIazon or, now, Cyriac? Not in my estimation. Yes, it would be good to have some variety in the skills on offer amongst our forwards because the others are rather alike but not at the cost of impact and goal threat.

Wouldn't you expect a £9m pound player to create some opportunities for himself or to cause the opposition defence some trouble? His so called runs are very ordinary and don't demand a pass from the player on the ball.

The other ten players (and substitutes) seem to be on the same wavelength and are playing well together so why does Martin look as though he does not fit in? Why does need excuses like they are not passing him the ball as though he was the oddball kid in a playground game of football?

Posters have been keen in the past to abuse Bent for his lack of impact and also Berbatov (unfairly in my opinion) and at Zamora for his attitude. Martin does a comparable amount of shrugging and moaning but offers little to compensate.

Let's have no more rose tinted views or excuses. He has never performed to the level we would expect and his attitude does not come near that of the rest of the squad. Is he really going to make the difference to us getting in the playoffs or not? I don't think so. Is he good enough to be a PL forward? Definitely not. He is beyond rehabilitation. I cannot wait to see him leave and for us to acquire a forward of genuine quality and commitment.

And that does not even take into account him going on strike!

Sorry I disagree with everything you've written but in particular comparing transfer fees for championship strikers (or any players really) is frankly silly for more reasons than I could explain in a single post. Do Rhodes, McCormack, Kodjia, Hogan et al look twice as good as Ngolo Kante did for Leicester last year?

The point others have made about him not being passed to is a total red herring because it just isn't true. We all love a conspiracy theory but sorry, 9/11 was not staged by the US government, and Jokanovic isn't sticking a player up front who the team captain hates so much he won't pass to him. Ridiculous. It's clear from the players' social media, Tony Khan, Jokanovic and the players' body language on the pitch that he's well liked. I still wouldn't be surprised if we signed him in the summer after all. Of course that would mean the fans need to find a new pantomime villain but hopefully McCormack won't be so pathetically fat by then and we can go back to abusing him without feeling guilty.

I think most people will have understood exactly what I meant by comparing fees. Martin will be very poor value for money for £9m or do you disagree?

I didn't say that players don't pass to him. Others in this thread were saying that. I am saying that is a silly excuse to make for him.

The manager, players and the club are not going to be negative about anyone at the club in public are they? I do not care if they are all best buddies off the pitch. The problem is that Martin is ineffective on the pitch.

Jokanovic is playing Martin because he should offer something different: physical strength, height, ability to hold up the ball. The problem is that he is pretty bang lower Championship level average in all these departments. He should be playing for a team like Derby.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Just a question which I think might be pertinent - if Chris Martin is fat/lazy/useless/slow/sh** etc, why does Jokanovic pick him either to start or on the bench?  Might SJ's judgement be a little more sound than some of CM's detractors who have posted on this thread?

And the option to pick another goalscorer to Martin is........oh yes Martin (lol). There are no other options!!! SJ can't really win, if he picks him and we lose and he can't win if he doesn't pick him and we lose, fortunately we don't keep losing! I wouldn't agree with all of the adjectives which you use that some have described Martin as, mine would be far worse and not quotable on this forum.

2 obvious alternatives to Martin are Cyriac and Kebano (who has said quite plainly that he enjoys playing anywhere up front).  My main comment stands - if Martin is so poor, howcome SJ picks him.  Or is SSJ's footballing knowledge and tactical acumen less than those who knock Martin? 

I think Jokanovic is playing Martin because he potentially offers something different, the qualities of an old fashioned centre forward such as physical strength, ability to challenge centre halfs for the ball in the air, etc., in comparison to small stature, pace and ball skills of our other forwards.

A question worth asking is would Martin be starting if PIazon was fit? And another, will Martin be starting ahead of Cyriac in a few weeks?

[Southcoastffc]

Apprentice, I would not disagree.  And I'm not saying that Martin is a wonderful player.  I am saying that Martin has abilities/attitude/talent/value to the team that are reasons SJ decides to include him in the match squad.   Given a choice between SJ and all the posters on this board in respect of team selection I know who I'd favour!

[J.Perkins]

Fredericks and Malone's crossing was pitiful. Martin's role in our system is to pull defenders away and create room for the midfielders.

You only realise what Martin does when he doesn't play. We are a much better side with him. The performances have proved it.