Great coach but useless tactician

[Whitesideup]

If we convert our chances and win 4-2, do you still sack him?

Is this seriously the mentality we have? I thought it was just a cliche to just say "sack the coach" after a loss, I didn't realize we gave up that quickly?

Baffling.

Tend to share this view. Maybe not our greatest performance, and I haven't seen the 90 minutes, but I bet Burton worked all week on how to get behind the ball and close down the important spaces, and yes, as Clough says they are better than last year. But yes, we lack a presence in the box. And this division is hugely competitive, look at Leeds v Millwall. And many games may be decided by fine margins - a penalty that looked incredibly harsh to me (compare that to the trip on Ayite the other week that wasn't given) and a glaring miss by Ojo. I know it's a ridiculous hypothesis, but if both of these go the other way, we run out 2-1 winners instead of losers. Point is, games will increasingly be decided by moments, and that includes referees' decisions.

Generally I like the way we play. And that's down to the manager. Remember, we still don't have arguably our most important player in the team. And Fonte may become the second.

[SG]

Until we stop conceding goals and keep clean sheets we are going nowhere. The players are good enough it is down to how they are set up and play. That is down to the management team and how the team is set up

[Lighthouse]

The problem is he has a limited amount of things he can do with this team. We have no plan B ever. We have not one target player so all he does is change the front three around during the match. He is on the wing, now he is in the middle. I am always puzzled by Sess being at wing back and not further up. I always think we are better with Odoi behind and Sess in front. Besides Sess is a poorer defender as Malone was.

However this side has never ever had a plan B. We have no forwards he trusts. We always play with a false number 9. When Fonte did come on did out tactics change?

Poor tactician is fair enough. But he has a squad of samey players. Take off one wide player and put on another. We will have good and bad days. But after last season not one of us can say we have a better team for him to work with.

[J.Perkins]

The board have given him a squad capable of so much more.

What is this statement based on?
The only evidence can be that Jokanovic had some of them playing well last year.
The new players are largely unknown quantities from lesser foreign leagues.
The only players that have been good anywhere else in England are Kalas and Norwood, and Norwood looks the worst of all for us ironically.

We needed more defensive depth, he got it.
We needed more midfield depth, he got it.
We needed more attacking depth, he got it.

The starting XI has lost 2 players. I'm quite certain Malone and Aluko weren't the glue that held the team together. So why are we so much poorer?

[J.Perkins]

If we convert our chances and win 4-2, do you still sack him?

Is this seriously the mentality we have? I thought it was just a cliche to just say "sack the coach" after a loss, I didn't realize we gave up that quickly?

Baffling.

The way we keep the ball and can play is superb. He's clearly focused on ball retention in training, and you can't argue that nearly every player we have can do that.

But nearly every player can't hit the target. I believe it shows a lack of finishing technique in training. He has 1 plan and 1 system only. And it's hurting us.

[J.Perkins]

Until we stop conceding goals and keep clean sheets we are going nowhere. The players are good enough it is down to how they are set up and play. That is down to the management team and how the team is set up

This.

[toshes mate]

We needed more defensive depth, [Jokanovic] got it.
We needed more midfield depth, he got it.
We needed more attacking depth, he got it.

And your evidence that 'he got it' is a poor start to the season which followed an abysmal pre-season fiasco.   In his summary SJ has said the players must show 'a desire to improve' and I take that to mean on the training ground so that the team will pick itself for him.  Players must desire to play and it is clear that the players SJ leaves out of the squad are not showing that desire, are injured, or are simply not good enough.  We are not scoring goals we should score and now we are conceding goals we should not concede.  That is down to the players SJ has got and not SJ.

[Lighthouse]

We needed more defensive depth, [Jokanovic] got it.
We needed more midfield depth, he got it.
We needed more attacking depth, he got it.

And your evidence that 'he got it' is a poor start to the season which followed an abysmal pre-season fiasco.   In his summary SJ has said the players must show 'a desire to improve' and I take that to mean on the training ground so that the team will pick itself for him.  Players must desire to play and it is clear that the players SJ leaves out of the squad are not showing that desire, are injured, or are simply not good enough.  We are not scoring goals we should score and now we are conceding goals we should not concede.  That is down to the players SJ has got and not SJ.

Where is the defensive depth. We sold a reserve centre half and brought in a reserve centre half. No improvement there. Kalas just returned and we have to play Ream at centre half. Neither are good at defending high balls in the area. Both are very good at one on one situations. Midfield, yes we did bring in two reserve players. Up front we brought in one forward to replace Martin. Lost Aluko and brought in a reserve forward who may or may not be good enough to replace Woodrow. Plus wingers and wide players. Lots of them. Where is the depth? Just lots of players that play the same way.

[Milo]

I get the impression he's like me with my long term girlfriend after I've just met a new, tasty Italian girl in a wine bar. You don't put the same energy or effort into the mundane everyday things you used to enjoy together and she slowly starts to notice. If you can keep it up for a few weeks she will actually dump you and you're free to go off with who you want!

Is he dreaming of West Ham etc in sexy lingerie or have I taken this analogy too far?

[toshes mate]

In other words Lighthouse, SJ got nothing except what the recruitment team could muster out out of a multitude of choice.   I agree with you that the recruitment has, until proven otherwise, not been good enough and it certainly hasn't been 'in depth' in defence.   Elsewhere I think the standard has roughly been the same except that we still are not seeing an out and out goal scoring talent.  I still believe we will come good in about a month's time, but players must inspire the head coach to play them.

[Lighthouse]

In other words Lighthouse, SJ got nothing except what the recruitment team could muster out out of a multitude of choice.   I agree with you that the recruitment has, until proven otherwise, not been good enough and it certainly hasn't been 'in depth' in defence.   Elsewhere I think the standard has roughly been the same except that we still are not seeing an out and out goal scoring talent.  I still believe we will come good in about a month's time, but players must inspire the head coach to play them.

We will have good days like the Ipswich game. But I cannot see how a coach can change things when he has lots of square pegs and only the odd square hole. Trying to fit so many same shapes into different ......well you see where I am going with this. We had such a good second half to last season. But for a poor start we would have been in the top two. What we needed was improvement. We are down on last seasons start. Not sure we can expect such a great revival again. However good or bad the coach is. As you say the standard is roughly the same. But every club now knows what to expect. Put pressure on us and send high balls into our area.

[J.Perkins]

The board have given him a squad capable of so much more.

What is this statement based on?
The only evidence can be that Jokanovic had some of them playing well last year.
The new players are largely unknown quantities from lesser foreign leagues.
The only players that have been good anywhere else in England are Kalas and Norwood, and Norwood looks the worst of all for us ironically.

We needed more defensive depth, he got it.
We needed more midfield depth, he got it.
We needed more attacking depth, he got it.

The starting XI has lost 2 players. I'm quite certain Malone and Aluko weren't the glue that held the team together. So why are we so much poorer?

Above all else We needed a striker to replace Martin... he didn't get it.

In all areas except the wings we lost at least as many players as we gained - dont forget Sigurdsson, Stearman, Parker, Thanos, LVC, Woodrow - so we haven't gained depth in terms of quantity.

There's this assumption that Djalo, Cisse, Mollo, Kamara et al are better quality but as I said, what's that based on other than YouTube highlights from the Kazakh 3rd tier and such like?

As for the existing players, Ream, Fredericks, Cairney, Johansen, McDonald et al, most were only good last year because Jokanovic coached them to play better than they had anywhere else in their respective careers, so I'm not going to hold it against the manager that they aren't playing to the same standard now.

Fonte is Martins replacement, Kamara Woodrow's. Are they an improvement? Yes.
Norwood and Cisse were LVC and Parker replacement. Same question? Yes.
Djalo and Soares replaced Sigurdsson and Malone. Once again? Yes.
And we have a multitude of wingers so there is a vast array of depth there.

Player performances is a coaching issue. You say the players aren't playing to a high enough standard. Button has improved. Fredericks much improved defensively. Kalas same standard, and Ream is doing superbly well. Sessegnon shouldn't be playing at LB, Odoi should. McDonald superb standards haven't dropped. I agree that the attacking players aren't playing to the same standards, but the fact that defense has improved, proves coaching issues attacking wise.

[Mince n Tatties]

Djalo and Soares an improvement on Sigg and Malone.
On what evidence do you base this?

[J.Perkins]

Djalo and Soares an improvement on Sigg and Malone.
On what evidence do you base this?

Sigurdsson was hopeless, any replacement was an upgrade.
Soares comes with glowing critics from the top tier of Portugese football with a £15m price put on him. Malone was average.

[Lighthouse]

Djalo and Soares an improvement on Sigg and Malone.
On what evidence do you base this?

Sigurdsson was hopeless, any replacement was an upgrade.
Soares comes with glowing critics from the top tier of Portugese football with a £15m price put on him. Malone was average.

This as you well know isn't really true. An injured player may have some wonderful write ups. But I prefer an average player that scores goals and plays at the top of his skill set. To a superb player who is on the treatment table. But when he is fit I am sure he will be  wonderful. Fingers crossed he is ever fit. Sigurdson wasn't hopeless but wasn't good enough. There is no proof that his replacement is any improvement as he is not good enough to make the team yet. Not one of the players we brought in has proved that they are any more than improvements on squad players that struggled to get in the team. Fonte has been injured and showed he is a clever player. But then an injured great player is not any improvement on an average fit one.

[SG]

In other words Lighthouse, SJ got nothing except what the recruitment team could muster out out of a multitude of choice.   I agree with you that the recruitment has, until proven otherwise, not been good enough and it certainly hasn't been 'in depth' in defence.   Elsewhere I think the standard has roughly been the same except that we still are not seeing an out and out goal scoring talent.  I still believe we will come good in about a month's time, but players must inspire the head coach to play them.

Maybe the head coach should be doing the inspiring . I think he gets away with a lot due to our style of play. Things had better start to improve or there may be some difficult conversations being had. I always say the table starts to take shape only after 10 games. It looks at the moment as if we are heading for mid table mediocrity

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

and Fonte when he came on was dropping back into midfield

[toshes mate]

Maybe the head coach should be doing the inspiring . I think he gets away with a lot due to our style of play. Things had better start to improve or there may be some difficult conversations being had. I always say the table starts to take shape only after 10 games. It looks at the moment as if we are heading for mid table mediocrity

At this level you are required to inspire yourself to the standard demanded by the coaching staff at training.  Players are paid loads of money and they should work for it.  SJ's job is to sort the players who cut the mustard from those who don't and we know he does that very well indeed.   None of the newbies has set the world on fire and whilst it may happen, until it does, you cannot say anyone was an upgrade.   Untried, untested, and mostly unknown quantities at Championship level (unlike Aluko, Martin and Malone).

[Gezza]

Can't believe the  people on this site ripping into SJ. It was only a couple of month's ago everyone was petrified he was going to leave and the main priority was to hold onto him. We played the best football in the championship last year  and exceeded expectations. We have some main players out through injury and we lose two games out of eight, both by the odd goal. SJ  is now seemingly clueless and should be replaced by Nigel Clough of all people ! God help us..

[masterhaynes]

Some people on here are starting to sound like club owners who have lost their bottle.

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:54:Spot on, what happens if we win the next game convincingly do we start proclaiming Joka as the 2nd coming. Wolves are the only team looking like they are slowly it together, Looking at the stats and reports Millwall played Leeds off the park and Cardiff snatched a late draw. Lets wait ans see how we perform with new players fit and bedded and Cairney back. Then Joka has a selection problem to contend with and different options available. I find it laughable the claims  by Fans from Villa, Leeds & QPR(although they have calmed down lately) being far too good for this league and having the best squad. This league is tough anyone can beat anyone.
If all the players are not on their game or ref is off his game then its going to be very tough, we need all our players to take their chances when they are presented and not be so wasteful and things will start looking better. 049:gif