Espanyol line up Fulham's Jokanovic

[toshes mate]

The evidence is there that if you back Jok then he will deliver.

You would be a fine counsel to have with such an eloquent rebuttal of the prosecution's weak and arbitrary case.  I may have also argued that SJ looks like he can make things happen even when some people in the Club try to make things as difficult as they can for him, but perhaps I would be a little guilty of being semantic.

[filham]

We have a fantastic manager who knows the game and wants his team to play it stylishly. He can only use the tools at his disposal. If, in the transfer window, he gets the players he has asked the board for and we don't get better then he can be judged accordingly. In Slav I trust. COYW.

The tools looked in good order and just right for the tough job in hand on Boxing day. It would seem that the Coach just has to keep the tools in good order and sharp to undertake the easier job on Saturday. Lose on Saturday and it will be difficult for Jocanovic to blame his tools . More likely that he will have fallen back into the bad habit of not using them correctly.

[davew]

We have a fantastic manager who knows the game and wants his team to play it stylishly. He can only use the tools at his disposal. If, in the transfer window, he gets the players he has asked the board for and we don't get better then he can be judged accordingly. In Slav I trust. COYW.

This whole subject gets boring including some of my comments, some of the tools at his disposal he hasn't really tried almost like a kid who gets presents for Christmas and doesn't like them and throws them out of their pram! Dream on if you think he will get the players that he thinks he needs, do you really think a team like FFC would really have relied on an owner, his son and a statistical genius who between the 3 of them know f--k all about Fulham to determine which players we need to make the club stronger without any contribution from our coach, come on, get real (lol)! If Joka was not given any involvement in the decision making in the last transfer window, he would have walked!!! Like the rest of us after last seasons over achievement, maybe for a moment he thought we could over achieve again. The point of this posting, none really, fans are fickle, me included!!!

[ScalleysDad]

Makes me chuckle reading all these "Slav out / hurry up" etc. posts on here as if all he is doing is holding up the arrival of Pep on his trusty steed to lead our march to inevitable Champions League glory in 2020.

Opinions aside, let's look at some facts / hopefully add some perspective:

- Led Watford to the league title in this very division a few years back.
- Took Fulham from 21st to 6th in his first full season with some of the best football played with virtually the same team as now.
- Of the players missing from last season, Slav lamented Malone wasn't adequately replaced and also stated he didn't want Aluko to leave. Factors out of his control.
- He has also stated we need more competition at CB and we are in desperate need of a goal scoring no.9 - again all out of his ultimate control under the current set-up, yet he is either blamed for being tactically inflexible / blamed when he does change his tactics to try and get the best out of his currently unbalanced squad he has been handed.
- Whereas last season we were fairly lucky with injuries, this season we have been hit with injuries to key players such as StefJo, TC, Ayite, Piazon, Kalas and Ojo. Given our squad is already unbalanced, asking anyone to put together a title contending run against teams such as millionaire playboys Wolves is expecting a lot.
- When SJ has had a fairly balanced squad and lucky with injuries, we have performed well / got the points to go with it.

Yes he has made some questionable tactical decisions, but so did Pep last season and now look at Man City. He has just had more luck with injuries this season and been given the players that now fit his system.

My point being, factoring all the above points when SJ is afforded players that fit his system and luck with injuries we perform - his teams get results, so why get rid of the manager? Just give him the players he (and most of us) can see he needs in January. It's far too lazy to blame the coach when things aren't going right - most the time it is their fault but that doesn't stack up presently given the clubs recent recruitment not fitting his system / injuries to key players - all factors out of his control. The evidence is there that if you back Jok then he will deliver.

We ought to clarify that the Watford gig, which started in the late October of the promotion season, was not going well until the appointment of Dean Austin as assistant coach and the 'English Voice' in the January. The beginning of the run to promotion began with them thumping us at the Cottage with Abdi and Deeney unleashed in their natural positions. Sounding a bit familiar? I will add that I hope we have found our mojo but the Watford aspect of the JOka cv does not make him the messiah. If he is learning to be less belligerent that's fine.
Austin stayed on post promotion, have to say I have no idea if he is still at Watford, but very little effort was made to retain JOka.

[Milo]

Doubt very much that he would go there. His Spanish is far worse than his English. Madness to even think of replacing him until at least the end of the season.

Do we think he'll ever produce a legible post-match talk

[davew]

Doubt very much that he would go there. His Spanish is far worse than his English. Madness to even think of replacing him until at least the end of the season.

Do we think he'll ever produce a legible post-match talk

NO!!

[Count Flapula]

We ought to clarify that the Watford gig, which started in the late October of the promotion season, was not going well until the appointment of Dean Austin as assistant coach and the 'English Voice' in the January. The beginning of the run to promotion began with them thumping us at the Cottage with Abdi and Deeney unleashed in their natural positions. Sounding a bit familiar? I will add that I hope we have found our mojo but the Watford aspect of the JOka cv does not make him the messiah. If he is learning to be less belligerent that's fine.
Austin stayed on post promotion, have to say I have no idea if he is still at Watford, but very little effort was made to retain JOka.

So the inference being Watford went up despite Jok rather than because of him, with Austin coming in to bail him out and run the show? Not sure I buy this "power behind the throne" theory in the slightest. The Championship is one of the hardest leagues in football to get out of so I'd wager no team would get promoted if they weren't playing for their head coach.

So was Dean "English voice" Austin saving us from Jok by secretly coaching us from a cupboard when we went from 21st to 6th last season? Think I might give Slav the benefit of the doubt that he actually did coach Watford to promotion and us to the playoffs rather than both teams playing well in spite of him. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck I'm a firm believer it's usually a duck - not Dean Austin in disguise.

[Bill2]

Ok for all those Joka out group, who else. Who out there without a job would we get to replace him and are they such a better manager than SJ. I can't think of one.

[ScalleysDad]

We ought to clarify that the Watford gig, which started in the late October of the promotion season, was not going well until the appointment of Dean Austin as assistant coach and the 'English Voice' in the January. The beginning of the run to promotion began with them thumping us at the Cottage with Abdi and Deeney unleashed in their natural positions. Sounding a bit familiar? I will add that I hope we have found our mojo but the Watford aspect of the JOka cv does not make him the messiah. If he is learning to be less belligerent that's fine.
Austin stayed on post promotion, have to say I have no idea if he is still at Watford, but very little effort was made to retain JOka.

So the inference being Watford went up despite Jok rather than because of him, with Austin coming in to bail him out and run the show? Not sure I buy this "power behind the throne" theory in the slightest. The Championship is one of the hardest leagues in football to get out of so I'd wager no team would get promoted if they weren't playing for their head coach.

So was Dean "English voice" Austin saving us from Jok by secretly coaching us from a cupboard when we went from 21st to 6th last season? Think I might give Slav the benefit of the doubt that he actually did coach Watford to promotion and us to the playoffs rather than both teams playing well in spite of him. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck I'm a firm believer it's usually a duck - not Dean Austin in disguise.

No inferences whatsoever. Ask a Watford fan or trawl their forums. Austin came in primarily to work with the players who were struggling with the Joka methodology, highlighted by the return of nil points from 15 in the early part of his reign which had only started a couple of months previously.
As for us last season. You can go with JOka if you want. I seem to remember the catalyst being Cairney and Stephjo playing like Premiership players, Leeds and Wolves imploding and ultimately Stam showing JOka what tactics were. Yes we were a joy to watch but top six on merit? Not so sure.
The analogy of a duck being a duck is I assume translated as JOka looks and talks like a coach and therefore he must be one. Not so. The season up to now has shown wE make the same errors, players have looked confused and we have put in some bang average team performances. We have not followed up on convincing wins and the odd 'iffey' result like the Millwall and Birmingham games papered over a whole host of problems. However we are where we are. Let's see how the Hull game and the cup adventure go and see if, this time, we can nurture the confidence after a convincing win which the Cardiff result was.

[Count Flapula]

You seem determined to downplay or downright deny Jok's role in any of the successes his teams have had - pretty much finding anyone else to attribute any of it to. He must be one lucky bugger in that case.

I think I will stick to the duck theory - the facts are there that his teams have performed - rather than your conspiracy theories about Austin doing his job / our confused players being carried to 6th by Cairney / Stefjo in spite of our headless coach.

[Asotosyios]

I think I prefer the Count's duck theory and not Scalleys analogy that Jokanovic is not actually a coach (really?).

Nobody insisted that Jokanovic is God or the best football manager ever set foot on earth. He makes mistakes, he is stubborn with his selections, he doesn't have plans B and C, etc. However he has a plan A that when it works, it results in beautiful football and, more often than not, good results. Does it always work? No, thus the average team performances in some games. But it does work and we all witnessed that in the second half of last season and in a few games this year. Will that lead us to the Premier League? Who knows? But we will enjoy watching it more than a non-creative, very disciplined, hard to beat team. I was reading the comments of the Cardiff fans and even though, I'm sure, they're happy that their team is 3rd, it looks like they would prefer to watch Fulham. Of course, all these are subjective: some prefer to win and some prefer attractive football. Ideally they should go together but it's not always the case.

Personally, I would still have been happy last year even if Leeds had not imploded and we had not made the playoffs. However, I find it sad and unfair that last season's achievement is only attributed to Cairney's and Johansen's performance and the contribution of Jokanovic is belittled. As far as Stam and his tactics go, no comment. I can only imagine what people would say if he was our manager and we were where Reading is now.

I've said it before but we should have another go next year with Jokanovic again, even if we don't make the top-10 this year. Obviously we should have an overall review at the end of the year, but he should be our manager at least until June 2019 when his contact expires. In fact, I never really understood why we would even think of getting rid of him.

[ScalleysDad]

You seem determined to downplay or downright deny Jok's role in any of the successes his teams have had - pretty much finding anyone else to attribute any of it to. He must be one lucky bugger in that case.

I think I will stick to the duck theory - the facts are there that his teams have performed - rather than your conspiracy theories about Austin doing his job / our confused players being carried to 6th by Cairney / Stefjo in spite of our headless coach.

Not at all. The written word, statistics and talking to people are my points of reference. JOka is yet to score highly on any level in any of those mediums but I understand how we get to be linked with his past. Tell you what if JOka gets the likes of Fredericks, Kebano, AK, Ayite and Odoi to be consistently good in their roles and not be so hit and miss, Ojo begins to look like a member of a Premiership team and we don't wince as either keeper prepares to clear the ball I will give you the floor. A good coaching set up half a season in, which everybody buys into, would have nailed those crucial, and regular, errors and we would be purring along. It was only a few weeks ago that it was claimed his touch line demeanour and the attitude of some players equated to him losing the dressing room. It is an ill fitting glove but that is not necessarily all down to him.

Don't worry about Austin in the cupboard. I believe he has paired up with Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank.

[ScalleysDad]

I think I prefer the Count's duck theory and not Scalleys analogy that Jokanovic is not actually a coach (really?).

Nobody insisted that Jokanovic is God or the best football manager ever set foot on earth. He makes mistakes, he is stubborn with his selections, he doesn't have plans B and C, etc. However he has a plan A that when it works, it results in beautiful football and, more often than not, good results. Does it always work? No, thus the average team performances in some games. But it does work and we all witnessed that in the second half of last season and in a few games this year. Will that lead us to the Premier League? Who knows? But we will enjoy watching it more than a non-creative, very disciplined, hard to beat team. I was reading the comments of the Cardiff fans and even though, I'm sure, they're happy that their team is 3rd, it looks like they would prefer to watch Fulham. Of course, all these are subjective: some prefer to win and some prefer attractive football. Ideally they should go together but it's not always the case.

Personally, I would still have been happy last year even if Leeds had not imploded and we had not made the playoffs. However, I find it sad and unfair that last season's achievement is only attributed to Cairney's and Johansen's performance and the contribution of Jokanovic is belittled. As far as Stam and his tactics go, no comment. I can only imagine what people would say if he was our manager and we were where Reading is now.

I've said it before but we should have another go next year with Jokanovic again, even if we don't make the top-10 this year. Obviously we should have an overall review at the end of the year, but he should be our manager at least until June 2019 when his contact expires. In fact, I never really understood why we would even think of getting rid of him.

Interesting. I did not say he, JOka, was not a coach. Stams tactics when put into play did work did they not but No I would not want him at The Cottage and I am afraid Cairney and Johansen were consistently on fire, something we have clearly missed so far this season....... and No I am not blaming him for injuries.

[Asotosyios]

I think I prefer the Count's duck theory and not Scalleys analogy that Jokanovic is not actually a coach (really?).

Nobody insisted that Jokanovic is God or the best football manager ever set foot on earth. He makes mistakes, he is stubborn with his selections, he doesn't have plans B and C, etc. However he has a plan A that when it works, it results in beautiful football and, more often than not, good results. Does it always work? No, thus the average team performances in some games. But it does work and we all witnessed that in the second half of last season and in a few games this year. Will that lead us to the Premier League? Who knows? But we will enjoy watching it more than a non-creative, very disciplined, hard to beat team. I was reading the comments of the Cardiff fans and even though, I'm sure, they're happy that their team is 3rd, it looks like they would prefer to watch Fulham. Of course, all these are subjective: some prefer to win and some prefer attractive football. Ideally they should go together but it's not always the case.

Personally, I would still have been happy last year even if Leeds had not imploded and we had not made the playoffs. However, I find it sad and unfair that last season's achievement is only attributed to Cairney's and Johansen's performance and the contribution of Jokanovic is belittled. As far as Stam and his tactics go, no comment. I can only imagine what people would say if he was our manager and we were where Reading is now.

I've said it before but we should have another go next year with Jokanovic again, even if we don't make the top-10 this year. Obviously we should have an overall review at the end of the year, but he should be our manager at least until June 2019 when his contact expires. In fact, I never really understood why we would even think of getting rid of him.

Interesting. I did not say he, JOka, was not a coach. Stams tactics when put into play did work did they not but No I would not want him at The Cottage and I am afraid Cairney and Johansen were consistently on fire, something we have clearly missed so far this season....... and No I am not blaming him for injuries.

You might have meant he is not a good manager, but your actual words implied he is not a coach - apologies if I misunderstood.

"The analogy of a duck being a duck is I assume translated as JOka looks and talks like a coach and therefore he must be one. Not so."

[hovewhite]

Slav is not perfect  but would not be happy if he left!coyw

[General]

Oh well

You seem not too bothered if he left?
Its interesting that there have been two twitter polls (A thousand votes between them) over last 24 hours and both give an overwhelming verdict (75% & 81%) that they want Joka to stay in place and they would not sack him.

I think people recognise that it has been a struggle for him this season and we need to give him to the end of this season and see where we are. I just wrote on another thread about the need to grow for next year and I think it's fair to give Joka that opportunity.

I do like sanchez though. Also would have worked under a similar transfer system at Watford.

See this is absurd - ridiculous even... This post - which does seem to follow most people's perspective is completely off and subjective. We're in almost the exact same position this season at this time of the year than we were last year and have only lost two of our last eight games... including beating Cardiff in Cardiff (they were second in the league and unbeaten at home), and sheff utd who were in a similar position. If we kept this last eight game form for the rest of the season then we'd likely find ourselves in the playoffs again - and that's having had ridiculous amounts of our best players out for most of the season and still dominating most teams we've played this season in every stat available apart from balls into the final third (which has since changed due to cairney being fit).

Two or three players brought in during the Jan window and we'll push on. Move on a few like Graham etc and we'll be competing again.

[Count Flapula]

Tell you what if JOka gets the likes of Fredericks, Kebano, AK, Ayite and Odoi to be consistently good in their roles and not be so hit and miss, Ojo begins to look like a member of a Premiership team and we don't wince as either keeper prepares to clear the ball I will give you the floor.

So how about last season when Jokanovic had substantially the whole squad playing better than any of them had in their entire respective careers up to that point? 

Clearly that was Dean Austin working his magic again 😁

[ScalleysDad]

Tell you what if JOka gets the likes of Fredericks, Kebano, AK, Ayite and Odoi to be consistently good in their roles and not be so hit and miss, Ojo begins to look like a member of a Premiership team and we don't wince as either keeper prepares to clear the ball I will give you the floor.

So how about last season when Jokanovic had substantially the whole squad playing better than any of them had in their entire respective careers up to that point? 

Clearly that was Dean Austin working his magic again 😁

Now,now. Austen was still at Watford last season but as I said earlier he is now wherever Hasselbank is. Look the story up. It is actually quite interesting as it showed that like Reading who had invested in training and coaching earlier sometimes the requirements to succeed were staring you right in the face. In the case in point if training is not going well because the information is not understood then fix it, in this case with Austen. Quite simple. We have invested heavily at Motspur Park and all hail the Academy. Even little old Exeter invested all of the 1.75m Ashley Grimes transfer money on their training facilities so training and coaching, including all the science, is at last a fundamental part of the game. Is speaking the language a science?
Anyway back to the debate. I was going to explore the stats from the back half of last season to show how reliant we were on Cairney and Stefjo but its been a bit busy and I was up very late guiding Cooke past 200. I do remember more often than not the back line, especially Button and Kmac, being voted FoF MoM so we were regularly tested but I also remember the late Cairney equaliser at Elland Road that only he could have pulled out of the bag which kept the season ticking over  and I also remember a couple of braces from Steffjo just when we needed them. Did'nt the latter totally 'boss' the good hiding we gave out to Huddersfield and its that nagging expletive of what could have been had Martin settled in and these three clicked. Other players dipped in and out of form, and indeed favour, but these two and plus perhaps Kmac were the consistency that drove the team along post Christmas.
Players playing at their full potential last season down to Joka? I would whole heartedly agree if they were doing it now as practice makes permanent and added to a game plan those players should be consistently over performing. That tone is set by the coach. I hope to goodness that the appearances of Edun and DLT were a genuine taster of what is to come.  I would applaud Joka for that.

[Keynsham]

Yes we were a joy to watch but top six on merit? Not so sure.

Nope.

No matter how hard I try I simply cannot understand this.

[PokerMatt]

Doubt very much that he would go there. His Spanish is far worse than his English. Madness to even think of replacing him until at least the end of the season.

Do we think he'll ever produce a legible post-match talk

NO!!

Difficult to answer as I've not seen his handwriting.