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We need to talk about Sergio Rico

Started by andyk, January 20, 2019, 07:02:29 PM

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filham

It was noticeable all through the game that Rico seemed to be stuck on his line but the Spurs crosses were of some quality.
I wonder if Betts would have done better, Schwartzer and Van der Sah certainly would have done but then they were both proven Premier league quality.

Plodder

Quote from: Statto on January 20, 2019, 08:51:31 PM
Bettinelli doesn't come for crosses. In 5-6 years playing for Fulham, I don't think he has ever claimed a cross where it involved coming more than 18 inches off his line and/or competing with another player.

Personally, I don't think there is much to choose between all three of our keepers, but if you want to make a case for Rico beng better than Bettinelli (which is a legitimate opinion), make sensible points, because inane dissing of Bettinelli destroys your credibility. If you are seriously claiming that Bettinelli has neither claimed a cross more than 18 inches from his line nor competed with an opposing player beyond that distance from goal....I simply am at a loss to know what to write.

Statto

Quote from: Plodder on January 22, 2019, 01:09:41 AM
Quote from: Statto on January 20, 2019, 08:51:31 PM
Bettinelli doesn't come for crosses. In 5-6 years playing for Fulham, I don't think he has ever claimed a cross where it involved coming more than 18 inches off his line and/or competing with another player.

Personally, I don't think there is much to choose between all three of our keepers, but if you want to make a case for Rico beng better than Bettinelli (which is a legitimate opinion), make sensible points, because inane dissing of Bettinelli destroys your credibility. If you are seriously claiming that Bettinelli has neither claimed a cross more than 18 inches from his line nor competed with an opposing player beyond that distance from goal....I simply am at a loss to know what to write.

Simple solution. Plenty of video of those Fulham games online. Show me this famous time Bettinelli suddenly became great at catching crosses.


Neil D

You can clearly see Odoi duck when the cross comes in for their first goal, expecting Rico to claim it.  I think Bettinelli warrants a recall. 

The Rational Fan

Quote from: Statto on January 22, 2019, 07:30:17 AM
Quote from: Plodder on January 22, 2019, 01:09:41 AM
Quote from: Statto on January 20, 2019, 08:51:31 PM
Bettinelli doesn't come for crosses. In 5-6 years playing for Fulham, I don't think he has ever claimed a cross where it involved coming more than 18 inches off his line and/or competing with another player.

Personally, I don't think there is much to choose between all three of our keepers, but if you want to make a case for Rico beng better than Bettinelli (which is a legitimate opinion), make sensible points, because inane dissing of Bettinelli destroys your credibility. If you are seriously claiming that Bettinelli has neither claimed a cross more than 18 inches from his line nor competed with an opposing player beyond that distance from goal....I simply am at a loss to know what to write.

Simple solution. Plenty of video of those Fulham games online. Show me this famous time Bettinelli suddenly became great at catching crosses.

The Whoscored Statistics say i) Marcus Bettinelli "Comes off his line often", but is weak at "Catching Crosses"; ii) Rico doesn't "comes off his line often much" and is average at catching crossses; iii) Fabri "comes off his line often" and is average at catching crossses. Statsiticallly, for the "Tottenham Goals" Fabri was best suited, but I think we should keep Rico as he has been one of the best 5 players every game until this week.

toshes mate

Fulham have had some pretty useful keepers during my time as a supporter, my favourite being Tony Macedo who was brave, agile and a terrific shot stopper.  The currently available first team keepers do not inspire me at all, and I'd say they are much of a muchness having weaknesses and strengths that render them pretty ordinary as professional keepers go.  But this season is highlighted through all its defensive weaknesses, its lack of communication, organisation, and cohesiveness under pressure.  When you are winning the possession stats and putting pressure on opponents by scoring goals then defence becomes a different game of minimising chances offered and maximising the blocking or stopping the crosses and shots of those players who breach the defence.  Our record is weak on all counts, and really hasn't matured or improved with age.

This is just a very poor Fulham side, initially crippled by poor investment choices, inadequate thought prior to selection, choice and decision making, and then hampered by trying to solve the resulting chaos via management change rather than cutting away the weak and infested organ causing all those initial issues.  And at root I include all summer window purchases except Mitro, MLM, and Bryan who, at least, do seem VFM unlike the others and when money is concerned that it is all that matters, IMHO. 

Pity we can't time travel, it really is.


clarkey

Of course Rico should have claimed the ball for both goals. And used up the time left on the clock.It is laughable to defend him. Both goals were stoppable. Betts would have caught them.Rico is no good on crosses and every single club in the Prem now knows this.

BUT our defence is still very nervous, sure Ream had an air shot but he was good Sunday, Odoi looked nervy throughout and Le Marchand just can't wait to get booked or give away a penalty. But the real weakness is at full back. Both Christie and Bryan had the wrong body shape throughout. Christie was slow and panicked when in possession. Bryan was poor defending and was not goal side of Wicks when he headed the ball. That is about the third time he has been poor at the far post in four games.

Also they do not make stopping crosses going into the box a priority.It is vital as our goalkeeper can't catch them.

The huge mistake was letting Freddo go and not signing Targett. We can't attack with the current two as they are poor on the ball, slow and unambitious going forward and we certainly can not defend.If we had spent half the money wasted on the goalkeepers and CDM's and got two decent full backs we would be at least 12 points better off.

We will continue to lose until we get two new ones. Why did we not sign Cole or even get Moussa back from Spurs.We need muscle, more effort and more control...thank goodness for Chambers.


MJG

Quote from: Neil D on January 22, 2019, 07:44:06 AM
You can clearly see Odoi duck when the cross comes in for their first goal, expecting Rico to claim it.  I think Bettinelli warrants a recall.
Or there was no shout and Odoi needs dropping for that mistake?
Just the views of a long term fan


toshes mate

Quote from: clarkey on January 22, 2019, 08:48:28 AM
The huge mistake was letting Freddo go and not signing Targett. We can't attack with the current two as they are poor on the ball, slow and unambitious going forward and we certainly can not defend.If we had spent half the money wasted on the goalkeepers and CDM's and got two decent full backs we would be at least 12 points better off.
Concur with this and the many times Jokanovic made it obvious how he would make pacey fullbacks the kingpins of transition from defence to attack, with central defensive cover when possession was lost until the fullbacks could get back and cover the flanks.   It took Jokanovic many attempts to get it right in both his more successful seasons because of the trading of Malone and the R Sessegnon issue that created.  Targett and Fredericks were a dynamic duo compared to which Bryan and Christie simply do not compare at all.  I really do not understand what our recruitment team is there for if they cannot rationalise the importance of players who do 'click' and are therefore worth their weight in gold.   

toshes mate

Quote from: MJG on January 22, 2019, 08:58:34 AM
Quote from: Neil D on January 22, 2019, 07:44:06 AM
You can clearly see Odoi duck when the cross comes in for their first goal, expecting Rico to claim it.  I think Bettinelli warrants a recall.
Or there was no shout and Odoi needs dropping for that mistake?
If we start dropping players for 'mistakes' then pretty soon there will be nobody left....

Camel Club

I have no doubts that Rico is PL quality. Even the best goalkeepers are going to be in two minds playing in front of a defence that has leaked as many goals as this one.

Defences who have no confidence in their keeper tend to defend a little too deep to compensate and keepers who lack a bit of faith in those in front of them either make mad dashes off the line to do the job themselves or are reluctant to leave their line at all.


Plodder

Quote from: Statto on January 22, 2019, 07:30:17 AM
Quote from: Plodder on January 22, 2019, 01:09:41 AM
Quote from: Statto on January 20, 2019, 08:51:31 PM
Bettinelli doesn't come for crosses. In 5-6 years playing for Fulham, I don't think he has ever claimed a cross where it involved coming more than 18 inches off his line and/or competing with another player.

Personally, I don't think there is much to choose between all three of our keepers, but if you want to make a case for Rico beng better than Bettinelli (which is a legitimate opinion), make sensible points, because inane dissing of Bettinelli destroys your credibility. If you are seriously claiming that Bettinelli has neither claimed a cross more than 18 inches from his line nor competed with an opposing player beyond that distance from goal....I simply am at a loss to know what to write.

Simple solution. Plenty of video of those Fulham games online. Show me this famous time Bettinelli suddenly became great at catching crosses.

I didn't write "Bettinelli suddenly became great at catching crosses". You were the one who made the reference to him never coming more than 18 inches to claim a cross or compete with an opposing player. Your hyperbole (assuming it is such) undermines your argument.

filham

Quite right to say that our whole back five is not strong and we are being a little out of order to single out the keeper but he does seem to have a problem with crosses.

The big question though is has there ever been a club that started their season in the Premier league with full backs not as good as the ones that helped to get them promoted.

Sting of the North

Quote from: MJG on January 22, 2019, 08:58:34 AM
Quote from: Neil D on January 22, 2019, 07:44:06 AM
You can clearly see Odoi duck when the cross comes in for their first goal, expecting Rico to claim it.  I think Bettinelli warrants a recall.
Or there was no shout and Odoi needs dropping for that mistake?

Surely it is borderline insane to drop a player because of a single mistake, as your post indicates? Multiple mistakes, maybe, but first and foremost players should of course be assessed on their overall performance, of which mistakes are one of many factors to weigh in. I know that fans love knee jerk reactions, but thankfully professional managers are most of the time better than that.

In any case, with less than someone coming out to explain what actually happened (i.e. was there a shout or not, what was Odoi thinking), we cannot know for sure. I believe most of us can agree on i) Ream should of course have cleared the ball, ii) Odoi should at least have tried to head it if nothing else to make it more difficult for Alli, and iii) Rico should have had better command of the box in this situation. Should we immediately drop all three of them for next game?


MJG

Just so Im clear...a post saying we should drop Rico because he didnt come out for a ball is ok.
But me replying lets drop another player who made a mistake is wrong?

As long as im clear on that.

Just the views of a long term fan

Sting of the North

Quote from: MJG on January 22, 2019, 11:10:29 AM
Just so Im clear...a post saying we should drop Rico because he didnt come out for a ball is ok.
But me replying lets drop another player who made a mistake is wrong?

As long as im clear on that.

You missunderstood, was meant to be directed at both statements as they are equally ridiculous. Sorry for being so unclear.

Woolly Mammoth

Well there have been a number of players over a number of matches have all been making mistakes, but we cannot drop them all otherwise we will have difficulty in fielding a team. 
Mistakes are a consequence of poor quality players, lack of confidence and togetherness and communication. Together with the usual rotten luck of a club associated with being in the bottom three.
It is what it is, and in the absence of reinforcements we have to ride the storm for better or for worse.
Its not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man.  🐘

Never forget your Roots.


MJG

Quote from: Sting of the North on January 22, 2019, 01:15:07 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 22, 2019, 11:10:29 AM
Just so Im clear...a post saying we should drop Rico because he didnt come out for a ball is ok.
But me replying lets drop another player who made a mistake is wrong?

As long as im clear on that.

You missunderstood, was meant to be directed at both statements as they are equally ridiculous. Sorry for being so unclear.
And clearly my sarcastic reply was misunderstaood. At least we all understand now. ;-)
Just the views of a long term fan

Sting of the North

Quote from: MJG on January 22, 2019, 01:24:57 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on January 22, 2019, 01:15:07 PM
Quote from: MJG on January 22, 2019, 11:10:29 AM
Just so Im clear...a post saying we should drop Rico because he didnt come out for a ball is ok.
But me replying lets drop another player who made a mistake is wrong?

As long as im clear on that.

You missunderstood, was meant to be directed at both statements as they are equally ridiculous. Sorry for being so unclear.
And clearly my sarcastic reply was misunderstaood. At least we all understand now. ;-)

It was, and my apologies. Sarcasm isn't always apparent in writing, but was a bit surprised by your comments seeing that I usually find you both level headed and reasonable. That should probably have been a clue for me...