Time to Start Building The Team

[filham]

Sure the transfer market is not easy to negotiate but just keep your eyes on a couple of promotion possibles. I bet Leeds, Derby and Cardiff have things sorted in good time for the season start.

[aaronmcguigan]

I think the main thing we need to look at is being prepared for the season. Whether it's pre season tours, friendlies, getting the right individuals, we just haven't done that the past few seasons.
I'm a firm believer that if the squad stayed the same, we could easily challenge top6, given an entire season of preparing, set plays, coaching, developing team spirit etc instead of ripping so that up in the last week of the window. We have 2 months and probably half a dozen games in pre season. We need to make it worth it, ie don't waste preseason playing Djalo and co if we have no intention of playing them In August. Parker needs all the help he can get and he needs supported as much as possible from those around and above him

[toshes mate]

I didn't say anything about ineptitude, but you have so let's talk about what it is you want to talk about --- FFC's ineptitude in last summer's transfer market. So you're saying FFC didn't strive or want to be successful in the transfer market last summer, but instead wanted to be inept? Striving to be successful and turning out to be inept at it are two different things. Sure FFC was a complete and total failure in the transfer market last summer... but that says nothing about FFC's desire or want to not be inept or fail. If was just a matter of striving and want, FFC might would have had a decent chance to win the league, but sadly it's not just a matter of striving and want.

It's just asinine to think they aren't striving to be successful, because they failed. Failure isn't evidence of not striving.

Much of football dealing is done on networks among former team mates, friends and fellow professionals and I would argue that a high percentage of the deals that get done are because those working together to get them done know which strings to pull to get something over a hurdle.

Ineptitude is primarily showing a lack of judgement and striving to be successful would presumably be the action of someone not wanting to be found lacking in judgement.  I think it is well established that many people believe TK, and, by inference, his team seems to lack experience in making judgements about transfers and many of them would say it is down to an over reliance of TK's preferred tool - statistics and analytics.  I give him the benefit of the doubt only by virtue of the football experience he is surrounded by - his scouts and his CEO.  However, it would appear he excludes or ignores his coaching staff from a lot of the stuff that goes on recruitment wise and I would argue that suggests he is not 'striving to succeed on behalf of FFC' but 'striving to appear good to his own peer group'.   Perhaps TK is the one being asinine?

   

[Lyle from Hangeland]

I didn't say anything about ineptitude, but you have so let's talk about what it is you want to talk about --- FFC's ineptitude in last summer's transfer market. So you're saying FFC didn't strive or want to be successful in the transfer market last summer, but instead wanted to be inept? Striving to be successful and turning out to be inept at it are two different things. Sure FFC was a complete and total failure in the transfer market last summer... but that says nothing about FFC's desire or want to not be inept or fail. If was just a matter of striving and want, FFC might would have had a decent chance to win the league, but sadly it's not just a matter of striving and want.

It's just asinine to think they aren't striving to be successful, because they failed. Failure isn't evidence of not striving.

Ineptitude is primarily showing a lack of judgement and striving to be successful would presumably be the action of someone not wanting to be found lacking in judgement.  I think it is well established that many people believe TK, and, by inference, his team seems to lack experience in making judgements about transfers and many of them would say it is down to an over reliance of TK's preferred tool - statistics and analytics.  I give him the benefit of the doubt only by virtue of the football experience he is surrounded by - his scouts and his CEO.  However, it would appear he excludes or ignores his coaching staff from a lot of the stuff that goes on recruitment wise and I would argue that suggests he is not 'striving to succeed on behalf of FFC' but 'striving to appear good to his own peer group'.   Perhaps TK is the one being asinine?

This argument is inept. You can say TK is inept at what he does for living or that that he has failed over the last year or however long, but you can't say FFC, including TK, haven't been striving to be successful. After all, a majority of fans were quite stoked after his spending spree last summer. Fans predicted Fulham would be a mid-table side after all the transfers. Maybe FFC fans this past year were as inept as TK?

[Twig]

I have no confidence we will make the right kind of signings or in plenty of time to settle in before the season starts.

I don't disagree. Football is competitive. It's shard signing and integrating players. There are 43 other teams Fulham's got to out bid (PL and Championship teams)... not to mention all the other European 1st division clubs.

In spite of the competitive nature of this situation, FFC still needs to do a much better job of preparedness, and not rely on last minute signings and acquisitions that leave the club short on training heading into the first game.  This past season really highlighted poor management in this regard.  Need to avoid the last minute fire drill.  I'm sure many clubs, both in the Champ and the Prem, head into the start of a new season ready to go.  FFC should strive to be one of those teams.

I'm quite sure FFC strives to be one of those teams. It really is easier said than done though. If it was so easy and was just a matter of want, FFC would be one of the greatest clubs to ever exist.

So you really think last summer's transfer window was unavoidable? Not ineptitude just more difficult than we all understand?  Sorry, I'm not buying that.

You're having some kind of conversation with yourself. That's very clearly not an argument I've made or was selling to you.

I didn't say anything about ineptitude, but you have so let's talk about what it is you want to talk about --- FFC's ineptitude in last summer's transfer market. So you're saying FFC didn't strive or want to be successful in the transfer market last summer, but instead wanted to be inept? Striving to be successful and turning out to be inept at it are two different things. Sure FFC was a complete and total failure in the transfer market last summer... but that says nothing about FFC's desire or want to not be inept or fail. If was just a matter of striving and want, FFC might would have had a decent chance to win the league, but sadly it's not just a matter of striving and want.

It's just asinine to think they aren't striving to be successful, because they failed. Failure isn't evidence of not striving.

Where did I say that FFC are not trying (or even striving) to be successful?  You said "it's easier said than done" and I responded to that statement.  Nothing asinine about it and neither was I having a conversation with myself. But since you insist on being bloody rude that's my last word on this topic.

[MikeW]

"I give him the benefit of the doubt only by virtue of the football experience he is surrounded by - his scouts and his CEO."

Tosh - you are being very generous.  They have been proven to be pretty bloody useless most of the time.

[Statto]

I have no confidence we will make the right kind of signings or in plenty of time to settle in before the season starts.

I don't disagree. Football is competitive. It's shard signing and integrating players. There are 43 other teams Fulham's got to out bid (PL and Championship teams)... not to mention all the other European 1st division clubs.

In spite of the competitive nature of this situation, FFC still needs to do a much better job of preparedness, and not rely on last minute signings and acquisitions that leave the club short on training heading into the first game.  This past season really highlighted poor management in this regard.  Need to avoid the last minute fire drill.  I'm sure many clubs, both in the Champ and the Prem, head into the start of a new season ready to go.  FFC should strive to be one of those teams.

I'm quite sure FFC strives to be one of those teams. It really is easier said than done though. If it was so easy and was just a matter of want, FFC would be one of the greatest clubs to ever exist.

So you really think last summer's transfer window was unavoidable? Not ineptitude just more difficult than we all understand?  Sorry, I'm not buying that.

You're having some kind of conversation with yourself. That's very clearly not an argument I've made or was selling to you.

I didn't say anything about ineptitude, but you have so let's talk about what it is you want to talk about --- FFC's ineptitude in last summer's transfer market. So you're saying FFC didn't strive or want to be successful in the transfer market last summer, but instead wanted to be inept? Striving to be successful and turning out to be inept at it are two different things. Sure FFC was a complete and total failure in the transfer market last summer... but that says nothing about FFC's desire or want to not be inept or fail. If was just a matter of striving and want, FFC might would have had a decent chance to win the league, but sadly it's not just a matter of striving and want.

It's just asinine to think they aren't striving to be successful, because they failed. Failure isn't evidence of not striving.

Where did I say that FFC are not trying (or even striving) to be successful?  You said "it's easier said than done" and I responded to that statement.  Nothing asinine about it and neither was I having a conversation with myself. But since you insist on being bloody rude that's my last word on this topic.

Twig, your point is very clear and I agree entirely.

If a doctor botched an operation, the fact that it was a particularly difficult operation and he tried his best, wouldnt mean he hadn't been negligent or inept.

I think you could go so far as to say, our performance this season, given the amount of money spent, is conclusive proof that the club has been inept in some way. Whether you put that down to late signings or some other reason (eg having too many different managers or signing the wrong types of player) is debatable, but I posted some stats previously showing our signings were overall later than most PL clubs. No one else signed 5 on deadline day, did they. So we're very clearly underperforming in that regard.

[Lyle from Hangeland]

I have no confidence we will make the right kind of signings or in plenty of time to settle in before the season starts.

I don't disagree. Football is competitive. It's shard signing and integrating players. There are 43 other teams Fulham's got to out bid (PL and Championship teams)... not to mention all the other European 1st division clubs.

In spite of the competitive nature of this situation, FFC still needs to do a much better job of preparedness, and not rely on last minute signings and acquisitions that leave the club short on training heading into the first game.  This past season really highlighted poor management in this regard.  Need to avoid the last minute fire drill.  I'm sure many clubs, both in the Champ and the Prem, head into the start of a new season ready to go.  FFC should strive to be one of those teams.

I'm quite sure FFC strives to be one of those teams. It really is easier said than done though. If it was so easy and was just a matter of want, FFC would be one of the greatest clubs to ever exist.

So you really think last summer's transfer window was unavoidable? Not ineptitude just more difficult than we all understand?  Sorry, I'm not buying that.

You're having some kind of conversation with yourself. That's very clearly not an argument I've made or was selling to you.

I didn't say anything about ineptitude, but you have so let's talk about what it is you want to talk about --- FFC's ineptitude in last summer's transfer market. So you're saying FFC didn't strive or want to be successful in the transfer market last summer, but instead wanted to be inept? Striving to be successful and turning out to be inept at it are two different things. Sure FFC was a complete and total failure in the transfer market last summer... but that says nothing about FFC's desire or want to not be inept or fail. If was just a matter of striving and want, FFC might would have had a decent chance to win the league, but sadly it's not just a matter of striving and want.

It's just asinine to think they aren't striving to be successful, because they failed. Failure isn't evidence of not striving.

Where did I say that FFC are not trying (or even striving) to be successful?  You said "it's easier said than done" and I responded to that statement.  Nothing asinine about it and neither was I having a conversation with myself. But since you insist on being bloody rude that's my last word on this topic.

Twig, your point is very clear and I agree entirely.

If a doctor botched an operation, the fact that it was a particularly difficult operation and he tried his best, wouldnt mean he hadn't been negligent or inept.

I think you could go so far as to say, our performance this season, given the amount of money spent, is conclusive proof that the club has been inept in some way. Whether you put that down to late signings or some other reason (eg having too many different managers or signing the wrong types of player) is debatable, but I posted some stats previously showing our signings were overall later than most PL clubs. No one else signed 5 on deadline day, did they. So we're very clearly underperforming in that regard.

Thank goodness football isn't anything like surgery. We'd all be in trouble.

Most Fulham fans, at the time, thought the surgery was a resounding success. Lots of money spent and some supposed wonderful players brought in. Logically most Fulham fans are as much of a failure as TK was over the last year. Lol.

[filham]

Right then, not much doubt that Sess will be moving on but say that Parker managed to persuade others, including Mitro,to stay for another season , how would we feel about starting the season with this line up:-

                                                                  Betts
                                        Odoi          Ream           Mawson       Bryan

                                                      Anguissi           MacDonald
                                   Kamara                    Cairney                  Sess. Replacement

                                                                   Mitrovic

The Sess replacement being a top player signed within the next month and therefore the team enjoys a full pre season together.

Could we be in the top six at Christmas and then in a position to make a couple of signings that would ensure a big push in the second half of the season.


                                                         

[Nero]

Right then, not much doubt that Sess will be moving on but say that Parker managed to persuade others, including Mitro,to stay for another season , how would we feel about starting the season with this line up:-

                                                                  Betts
                                        Odoi          Ream           Mawson       Bryan

                                                      Anguissi           MacDonald
                                   Kamara                    Cairney                  Sess. Replacement

                                                                   Mitrovic

The Sess replacement being a top player signed within the next month and therefore the team enjoys a full pre season together.

Could we be in the top six at Christmas and then in a position to make a couple of signings that would ensure a big push in the second half of the season.

We need another goal scorer to pitch in which Sess did, you cant see Kamara get 15+ goals or Ayite we need a someone that will pop up with a goal when Mitro doesn't  oh and a right back and centre back but we might be able to get away with the last 2

[Sting of the North]

Thank goodness football isn't anything like surgery. We'd all be in trouble.

Most Fulham fans, at the time, thought the surgery was a resounding success. Lots of money spent and some supposed wonderful players brought in. Logically most Fulham fans are as much of a failure as TK was over the last year. Lol.

Maybe you want to think that line of reasoning through another time? I can give you two clues as to why it doesn't hold up (as in, it is the opposite of logical).

1. Thinking that the surgery was a resounding success has no bearing on whether it was a success or not. This is extra obvious if you bleed out the next day because it was in fact not a success.

2. Last time I checked it wasn't the job of "most Fulham fans" to put together a team that could compete in the PL, or maybe think of it as the patient is not the doctor. 

[Statto]

I have no confidence we will make the right kind of signings or in plenty of time to settle in before the season starts.

I don't disagree. Football is competitive. It's shard signing and integrating players. There are 43 other teams Fulham's got to out bid (PL and Championship teams)... not to mention all the other European 1st division clubs.

In spite of the competitive nature of this situation, FFC still needs to do a much better job of preparedness, and not rely on last minute signings and acquisitions that leave the club short on training heading into the first game.  This past season really highlighted poor management in this regard.  Need to avoid the last minute fire drill.  I'm sure many clubs, both in the Champ and the Prem, head into the start of a new season ready to go.  FFC should strive to be one of those teams.

I'm quite sure FFC strives to be one of those teams. It really is easier said than done though. If it was so easy and was just a matter of want, FFC would be one of the greatest clubs to ever exist.

So you really think last summer's transfer window was unavoidable? Not ineptitude just more difficult than we all understand?  Sorry, I'm not buying that.

You're having some kind of conversation with yourself. That's very clearly not an argument I've made or was selling to you.

I didn't say anything about ineptitude, but you have so let's talk about what it is you want to talk about --- FFC's ineptitude in last summer's transfer market. So you're saying FFC didn't strive or want to be successful in the transfer market last summer, but instead wanted to be inept? Striving to be successful and turning out to be inept at it are two different things. Sure FFC was a complete and total failure in the transfer market last summer... but that says nothing about FFC's desire or want to not be inept or fail. If was just a matter of striving and want, FFC might would have had a decent chance to win the league, but sadly it's not just a matter of striving and want.

It's just asinine to think they aren't striving to be successful, because they failed. Failure isn't evidence of not striving.

Where did I say that FFC are not trying (or even striving) to be successful?  You said "it's easier said than done" and I responded to that statement.  Nothing asinine about it and neither was I having a conversation with myself. But since you insist on being bloody rude that's my last word on this topic.

Twig, your point is very clear and I agree entirely.

If a doctor botched an operation, the fact that it was a particularly difficult operation and he tried his best, wouldnt mean he hadn't been negligent or inept.

I think you could go so far as to say, our performance this season, given the amount of money spent, is conclusive proof that the club has been inept in some way. Whether you put that down to late signings or some other reason (eg having too many different managers or signing the wrong types of player) is debatable, but I posted some stats previously showing our signings were overall later than most PL clubs. No one else signed 5 on deadline day, did they. So we're very clearly underperforming in that regard.

Thank goodness football isn't anything like surgery. We'd all be in trouble.

Most Fulham fans, at the time, thought the surgery was a resounding success. Lots of money spent and some supposed wonderful players brought in. Logically most Fulham fans are as much of a failure as TK was over the last year. Lol.

There are probably only about 100 people in the world with TK's level of responsibility in relation to a club Fulham's size. To say most fans couldnt do a better job than TK is a bit like saying most fans couldn't do a better job at right back than Timothy Fosu-Mensah. It's not really a defence, anymore than it is to say he's doing a difficult job, or that he's trying hard. None of these things preclude the person from being inept.

I'd also query whether "most" fans thought we'd had a successful window, or were just pleased with the money spent, ie ambition shown. But that's another argument for another day and in any case, it may be another difference to subtle for you to grasp.

[wheelerdeeler]

Right then, not much doubt that Sess will be moving on but say that Parker managed to persuade others, including Mitro,to stay for another season , how would we feel about starting the season with this line up:-

                                                                  Betts
                                        Odoi          Ream           Mawson       Bryan

                                                      Anguissi           MacDonald
                                   Kamara                    Cairney                  Sess. Replacement

                                                                   Mitrovic

The Sess replacement being a top player signed within the next month and therefore the team enjoys a full pre season together.

Could we be in the top six at Christmas and then in a position to make a couple of signings that would ensure a big push in the second half of the season.


                                                         

No to Kamara, Odoi and Ream. And Zambo won't be ready at the start of the season because of AFCON.

I've personally always had a belief that the players we have (and that are likely to stay) are perfect for a 3 at the back. Especially with the defenders, Mawson's the ideal central Centre-Back, Le Marchand LCB, pushes Bryan further up the pitch so him getting caught out at the back post is less of a worry etc.

We don't really know what Parker wants out of the summer window, but my hope is we're starting the season with something like;

3-4-1-2
Bettinelli; New RCB, Mawson, Le Marchand; New RWB, McDonald, New DM, Bryan; Cairney; New Target Man/Mitrovic, New Pressing Forward

With a bench of Rodak, Ream, Odoi, S. Sessegnon, O'Riley, New Winger/Quick Striker, Ayite and players like Rui Fonte, Kebano, Elliott, de la Torre and a back-up "4th" defensive midfielder (someone new or Cisse) in the reserves.

And then we'd work Zambo back into the mix over the first stretch of 6-7 games before the September Internationals so he's ready to start coming off the back of them.

I don't think that's too unrealistic either. Let's say we're bringing in 55-60m which then rises to 90m with a Mitrovic sale. I'd look at signing;
Fikayo Tomori (RCB) (Loan)
Nazim Sangare (RWB) (3m)
Taras Romanczuk (CM) (2-2.5m)
Fredrik Gulbrandsen (Pressing Striker) (Free)
Andreas Geipl (Back-Up DM) (500k-1m)

Spending roughly 6m (and paying Gulbrandsen's inflated wages for being on a free) compared to bringing in 55-60m. And then if we sell Mitrovic in addition we'd have money to play with for another Striker.

[toshes mate]

Maybe FFC fans this past year were as inept as TK?

Perhaps it is you and a few others who just cannot grasp the notion of judgement and are therefore suffering from ineptitude in the face of solid evidence.  The Khans, in six years have sacked several managers who they themselves appointed with or without help.   They are certainly not alone in making hashes of decisions but only one of their appointees has been even remotely successful (i.e. a points per game ratio above one).  One in eight appointments is the kind of success rate that would dismiss large numbers of workers without hope of claiming mitigating circumstances.  The only remarkable thing about last summer was the amount of money spent.  It didn't have me leaping up and down in exaltation.  It just made me very suspicious of TK's motives.   

[Woolly Mammoth]

I have no confidence we will make the right kind of signings or in plenty of time to settle in before the season starts.

I don't disagree. Football is competitive. It's shard signing and integrating players. There are 43 other teams Fulham's got to out bid (PL and Championship teams)... not to mention all the other European 1st division clubs.

In spite of the competitive nature of this situation, FFC still needs to do a much better job of preparedness, and not rely on last minute signings and acquisitions that leave the club short on training heading into the first game.  This past season really highlighted poor management in this regard.  Need to avoid the last minute fire drill.  I'm sure many clubs, both in the Champ and the Prem, head into the start of a new season ready to go.  FFC should strive to be one of those teams.

I'm quite sure FFC strives to be one of those teams. It really is easier said than done though. If it was so easy and was just a matter of want, FFC would be one of the greatest clubs to ever exist.

So you really think last summer's transfer window was unavoidable? Not ineptitude just more difficult than we all understand?  Sorry, I'm not buying that.

You're having some kind of conversation with yourself. That's very clearly not an argument I've made or was selling to you.

I didn't say anything about ineptitude, but you have so let's talk about what it is you want to talk about --- FFC's ineptitude in last summer's transfer market. So you're saying FFC didn't strive or want to be successful in the transfer market last summer, but instead wanted to be inept? Striving to be successful and turning out to be inept at it are two different things. Sure FFC was a complete and total failure in the transfer market last summer... but that says nothing about FFC's desire or want to not be inept or fail. If was just a matter of striving and want, FFC might would have had a decent chance to win the league, but sadly it's not just a matter of striving and want.

It's just asinine to think they aren't striving to be successful, because they failed. Failure isn't evidence of not striving.

Where did I say that FFC are not trying (or even striving) to be successful?  You said "it's easier said than done" and I responded to that statement.  Nothing asinine about it and neither was I having a conversation with myself. But since you insist on being bloody rude that's my last word on this topic.

Twig, your point is very clear and I agree entirely.

If a doctor botched an operation, the fact that it was a particularly difficult operation and he tried his best, wouldnt mean he hadn't been negligent or inept.

I think you could go so far as to say, our performance this season, given the amount of money spent, is conclusive proof that the club has been inept in some way. Whether you put that down to late signings or some other reason (eg having too many different managers or signing the wrong types of player) is debatable, but I posted some stats previously showing our signings were overall later than most PL clubs. No one else signed 5 on deadline day, did they. So we're very clearly underperforming in that regard.

Thank goodness football isn't anything like surgery. We'd all be in trouble.

Most Fulham fans, at the time, thought the surgery was a resounding success. Lots of money spent and some supposed wonderful players brought in. Logically most Fulham fans are as much of a failure as TK was over the last year. Lol.

What do you mean most Fulham fans, I think you are a little presumptuous there. All the ones I know, and I know many, were confused and Could not understand the logic of what TK was doing, and that many were panic buys whereupon far too much money was spent on certain players in a panic attempt to get the deal over the line, therefore paying well over the top, as has been proved since, and on top of that the judgement on their strength of character was also floored. On top of that it was obvious then that TK was a poor negotiator and knew next to nothing about Association Football or the Culture of the English Leagues. In other words he was his fathers son. A fish out of water, and up until 18 months ago the rest of the staff had to put up with his arrogant best mate CK the Hannibal Lector of something called statts until he was eventually thrown overboard after TK had covered up for him once too often. It's not what you know, it's who you know.
The chuckle brothers would have done a far better job than these two little rich boys.

[H4usuallysitting]

I have no confidence we will make the right kind of signings or in plenty of time to settle in before the season starts.

I think we will make the correct signings - but they will be only good at cricket

[Fernhurst]

It just made me very suspicious of TK's motives. 


Hmmm Mate, can you explain that comment please?

[toshes mate]

It just made me very suspicious of TK's motives. 


Hmmm Mate, can you explain that comment please?

Certainly, Sir.

I mentioned them in reply #22 thus 'However, it would appear he excludes or ignores his coaching staff from a lot of the stuff that goes on recruitment wise and I would argue that suggests he is not 'striving to succeed on behalf of FFC' but 'striving to appear good to his own peer group'. '  TK's apparent immaturity (for his age) has been mentioned before in respect of social media behaviour and his constant movement into other areas of business rather than sticking to one thing - a wheeler-dealer kind of guy rather than a determined individual who will stick to his projects like glue until he can make them successful.  I do not necessarily believe wheeler-dealers cannot succeed but I do believe that if you are a key figure running a football club then it is important to be inclusive and involving and the Khans failed to do that, IMO, with Jokanovic, their best coach/managerial appointment by a country mile (i.e. nobody else the Khans have appointed gets close to SJ's achievements - even when promotion is excluded).   

I believe at least three of the players recruited for last season were 'show casing' rather than meeting an outstanding team/squad requirement.  Did any of 'his team' pick him up on that and if not why not?

[Arthur]

... if Parker is to have four weeks preparation with his new squad all ins and outs need to be sorted during June.

The irony, for me, is that when the transfer window extended until the end of August, there was never, as I recollect, any expectation on here for the Club to have the squad in place by July. And it wasn't that there was no one bemoaning that we leave our business until too late in the day; there were complaints aplenty. In the years before last summer, however, the mantra seemed to be that we needed to have all our players in by the first game of the season.

[Milo]

Right then, not much doubt that Sess will be moving on but say that Parker managed to persuade others, including Mitro,to stay for another season , how would we feel about starting the season with this line up:-

                                                                  Betts
                                        Odoi          Ream           Mawson       Bryan

                                                      Anguissi           MacDonald
                                   Kamara                    Cairney                  Sess. Replacement

                                                                   Mitrovic

The Sess replacement being a top player signed within the next month and therefore the team enjoys a full pre season together.

Could we be in the top six at Christmas and then in a position to make a couple of signings that would ensure a big push in the second half of the season.


                                                         

Agree!

Would also want a Bryan-esque RB. Ie 25-26 years old and top Championship level.

Ps Odoi will no doubt end up holding down a CB position anyway!