West Brom

[Sting of the North]

I believe it is totally reasonable that many are looking at our current situation in a somewhat negative manner and thinking that something needs to change. Especially since the last few games has looked rather like a step in the wrong direction. Likewise, I can see why one would point to the table and say that every position is up for grabs, and we are in it with a real chance. Especially seeing that we have played well in many games ´(unfortunately less so the last few weeks). Neither of those positions are really contradictory.

I believe that the Khan's gambled on Parker, and that if you gamble in such a way you should be prepared for a bumpy ride. Therefore I believe that they should give him this season unless it is a complete failure. In my opinion we are not at that point yet.

I also am afraid of the choice in replacement should they decide to pull the trigger. I really don't trust the Khan's in appointing managers, as it seem completely random.

Interesting, so if we're say 7-10 at Xmas and behind the pack by say 10+ points to top 2 and 5+ points to playoffs, you'd still want to give Parker the season? Or have I read that wrong?

Yes, most definitely. I fail to see why that is so interesting though?

One of the reasons is that I obviously have another view on what is a fair chance than some on here. Which is fine. Another reason is that I believe that the chance of the Khan's messing up the replacement is very high. Therefore I think that we will not improve if we replace Parker. At least not this season.

[Spirit of 2000]

I believe it is totally reasonable that many are looking at our current situation in a somewhat negative manner and thinking that something needs to change. Especially since the last few games has looked rather like a step in the wrong direction. Likewise, I can see why one would point to the table and say that every position is up for grabs, and we are in it with a real chance. Especially seeing that we have played well in many games ´(unfortunately less so the last few weeks). Neither of those positions are really contradictory.

I believe that the Khan's gambled on Parker, and that if you gamble in such a way you should be prepared for a bumpy ride. Therefore I believe that they should give him this season unless it is a complete failure. In my opinion we are not at that point yet.

I also am afraid of the choice in replacement should they decide to pull the trigger. I really don't trust the Khan's in appointing managers, as it seem completely random.

Interesting, so if we're say 7-10 at Xmas and behind the pack by say 10+ points to top 2 and 5+ points to playoffs, you'd still want to give Parker the season? Or have I read that wrong?

Ok this isn't my personal take - think I've made it clear that I'm of the opinion that Parker should go now and that way we have a shot at salvaging our season as the gap isn't huge and the points to play for is a decent amount.


HOWEVER - at what stage do we/others look at it and say "this season is done, Parker has failed as we are "X" points off playoffs? In that scenario even if we're writing the rest of this season off then surely we're planning to build for next season and should be doing so under whoever it is that's likely to be leading us at the start of next season. IF SP has utterly failed to get us even to the playoffs given one of the most talented (top 3) squads in the division then there cannot surely be those who maintain giving him until the end of the season and keeping faith hoping he learns and it's all different come May 2020? No value in keeping a "dead man walking" at the helm so even if another caretaker is in whilst the search for a new permanent manger is carried out. So I don't see a "give him the rest of the season, come what may" argument holding any validity.


The above all purely hypothetical and I sustain personally I'd have him gone asap as I don't think this season is done yet ... but in 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 games time it may well be. (and in MY opinion he's not learning, his style has been worked out & he has no plan b & I see no sudden upturn without a radical re-think on his behalf)

[FFC1987]

I believe it is totally reasonable that many are looking at our current situation in a somewhat negative manner and thinking that something needs to change. Especially since the last few games has looked rather like a step in the wrong direction. Likewise, I can see why one would point to the table and say that every position is up for grabs, and we are in it with a real chance. Especially seeing that we have played well in many games ´(unfortunately less so the last few weeks). Neither of those positions are really contradictory.

I believe that the Khan's gambled on Parker, and that if you gamble in such a way you should be prepared for a bumpy ride. Therefore I believe that they should give him this season unless it is a complete failure. In my opinion we are not at that point yet.

I also am afraid of the choice in replacement should they decide to pull the trigger. I really don't trust the Khan's in appointing managers, as it seem completely random.

Interesting, so if we're say 7-10 at Xmas and behind the pack by say 10+ points to top 2 and 5+ points to playoffs, you'd still want to give Parker the season? Or have I read that wrong?

Yes, most definitely. I fail to see why that is so interesting though?

One of the reasons is that I obviously have another view on what is a fair chance than some on here. Which is fine. Another reason is that I believe that the chance of the Khan's messing up the replacement is very high. Therefore I think that we will not improve if we replace Parker. At least not this season.

I find it interesting as that would be unacceptable to me and a complete failure so you obviously accept it whereas I don't. I'd rather we didn't accept mediocrity  to save face and the guys who employ, do their job and actually get the right man.

[Jim©]

I'm hearing this "no plan B" all the time, yet he did revert to plan B v Charlton and it worked a treat 2nd half, we were superb.
Plan B became plan A at Stoke, and despite there being lots of praise for the starting line up, he got slated afterwards for changing the formation.

in response to your "should we be doing better points wise", I think we're about  4 or 5 away from what we deserve: W Brom (GK gave 2 points away), Charlton (looked like we'd win it, their keeper was excellent) Forest (keeper good again, we deserved a point ). This doesn't include Sheff W away where we were unlucky to not hold on, Cardiff where with 11 men we looked the more likely (good point in the end). Boro away where we played 73 mins with 10 men. I think the 3 losses have been fair enough, but there's a good few points there that'd put us high up in the table. It's why i don't get the doom and gloom at all.

We're still 2nd in most shots on target and top of least shots on target conceded. If our GK was a bit better we'd probably be top as we've only conceded 40 shots on target yet conceded 17 goals(i know that's a big IF...)

[Sting of the North]

I find it interesting as that would be unacceptable to me and a complete failure so you obviously accept it whereas I don't. I'd rather we didn't accept mediocrity  to save face and the guys who employ, do their job and actually get the right man.

Different interpretations of what constitutes a complete failure perhaps? And obviously also different interpretations of the potential reasons to retain Parker. If this was a wish list, I would rather us winning every game. However, since it's not I rather take my chances with Parker for the time being than take my chances that the Khan's will strike gold by pure coincidence when appointing Parker's replacement.

[Facts Not Fiction]

I'm hearing this "no plan B" all the time, yet he did revert to plan B v Charlton and it worked a treat 2nd half, we were superb.
Plan B became plan A at Stoke, and despite there being lots of praise for the starting line up, he got slated afterwards for changing the formation.

in response to your "should we be doing better points wise", I think we're about  4 or 5 away from what we deserve: W Brom (GK gave 2 points away), Charlton (looked like we'd win it, their keeper was excellent) Forest (keeper good again, we deserved a point ). This doesn't include Sheff W away where we were unlucky to not hold on, Cardiff where with 11 men we looked the more likely (good point in the end). Boro away where we played 73 mins with 10 men. I think the 3 losses have been fair enough, but there's a good few points there that'd put us high up in the table. It's why i don't get the doom and gloom at all.

We're still 2nd in most shots on target and top of least shots on target conceded. If our GK was a bit better we'd probably be top as we've only conceded 40 shots on target yet conceded 17 goals(i know that's a big IF...)

There isn't an effective plan A now. Teams have figured us out, going on the fact in 3/4 last games we haven't scored. Can't have a plan B if you don't have a plan A.

[FFC1987]

I find it interesting as that would be unacceptable to me and a complete failure so you obviously accept it whereas I don't. I'd rather we didn't accept mediocrity  to save face and the guys who employ, do their job and actually get the right man.

Different interpretations of what constitutes a complete failure perhaps? And obviously also different interpretations of the potential reasons to retain Parker. If this was a wish list, I would rather us winning every game. However, since it's not I rather take my chances with Parker for the time being than take my chances that the Khan's will strike gold by pure coincidence when appointing Parker's replacement.

Sure, I mean, you asked why I found it interesting, and that's why. It just differs on what the failure of the objective means. In this case, failure to be close to top 2 by Xmas is a failure. As I said, I don't know if Parker is the answer, results and performances with this squad/budget and the fact we're on a downwards slope after on paper, easier fixtures would point to no but I can appreciate others optimism. I don't think the Khans necessarily need to 'strike gold' on a new appointment either. the hard work for this squad should of been done already ie the decent transfer window, we just need someone competent enough to steady teh ship and get the most out of a handful of key players and we'll be fine.

[Spirit of 2000]

I'm hearing this "no plan B" all the time, yet he did revert to plan B v Charlton and it worked a treat 2nd half, we were superb.
Plan B became plan A at Stoke, and despite there being lots of praise for the starting line up, he got slated afterwards for changing the formation.

in response to your "should we be doing better points wise", I think we're about  4 or 5 away from what we deserve: W Brom (GK gave 2 points away), Charlton (looked like we'd win it, their keeper was excellent) Forest (keeper good again, we deserved a point ). This doesn't include Sheff W away where we were unlucky to not hold on, Cardiff where with 11 men we looked the more likely (good point in the end). Boro away where we played 73 mins with 10 men. I think the 3 losses have been fair enough, but there's a good few points there that'd put us high up in the table. It's why i don't get the doom and gloom at all.

We're still 2nd in most shots on target and top of least shots on target conceded. If our GK was a bit better we'd probably be top as we've only conceded 40 shots on target yet conceded 17 goals(i know that's a big IF...)

I was briefly hopeful after the Charlton 2nd half as we showed more intensity, tempo etc than previously, but what I've seen subsequently makes me think it was more of a reaction to being totally tactically out-done by Bowyer in the 1st half & he just matched us up with them. Then to take the matching up vs Charlton and then apply it to a different opposition against Stoke who played a different formation entirely was naïve & not only was the tactic/formation ineffective but it was applied with the same old familiar walking pace, sideways, backwards rubbish seen before & after that. Not only do I think SP has no plausible plan b, but his plan a is failing and I really don't think knows his best starting X1 or how to work the playing resource at his disposal into a cohesive unit. In short he's not doing what I'd expect a genuinely good & tactically clued up manager to do, there's an element of if we have the ball more than you and have better man for man players, then we'll win, which really is naïve.

[colinwhite]

Slavisa was the first one to question the plan B argument. If plan a works you dont need a plan B. The line up /set Stoke away is the main time that SP got it wrong and should have changed it .

Plan B against charlton was to go 3 at the back 2nd ,half which not only worked but should have got us 3 points

[RaySmith]

Yes Colin, I remember Slavisa saying we didn't need a plan B.

Parker did well to change things in the second half v Charlrton - to  use a Plan B, and we deserved to win .

[Jim©]

I'm hearing this "no plan B" all the time, yet he did revert to plan B v Charlton and it worked a treat 2nd half, we were superb.
Plan B became plan A at Stoke, and despite there being lots of praise for the starting line up, he got slated afterwards for changing the formation.

in response to your "should we be doing better points wise", I think we're about  4 or 5 away from what we deserve: W Brom (GK gave 2 points away), Charlton (looked like we'd win it, their keeper was excellent) Forest (keeper good again, we deserved a point ). This doesn't include Sheff W away where we were unlucky to not hold on, Cardiff where with 11 men we looked the more likely (good point in the end). Boro away where we played 73 mins with 10 men. I think the 3 losses have been fair enough, but there's a good few points there that'd put us high up in the table. It's why i don't get the doom and gloom at all.

We're still 2nd in most shots on target and top of least shots on target conceded. If our GK was a bit better we'd probably be top as we've only conceded 40 shots on target yet conceded 17 goals(i know that's a big IF...)

I was briefly hopeful after the Charlton 2nd half as we showed more intensity, tempo etc than previously, but what I've seen subsequently makes me think it was more of a reaction to being totally tactically out-done by Bowyer in the 1st half & he just matched us up with them. Then to take the matching up vs Charlton and then apply it to a different opposition against Stoke who played a different formation entirely was naïve & not only was the tactic/formation ineffective but it was applied with the same old familiar walking pace, sideways, backwards rubbish seen before & after that. Not only do I think SP has no plausible plan b, but his plan a is failing and I really don't think knows his best starting X1 or how to work the playing resource at his disposal into a cohesive unit. In short he's not doing what I'd expect a genuinely good & tactically clued up manager to do, there's an element of if we have the ball more than you and have better man for man players, then we'll win, which really is naïve.

I certainly agree that our last few away games have been poor. It happens, and the reaction is what counts now. We're going to a pretty hostile ground to a team in better form than us. IF (again, in capitals) we can turn this around, we need to start immediately. We can play teams off the park, we do have a  very good front 6 (bog standard back 5 exacerbated by a poor keeper IMO) and we're still within touching distance.

Plan A can work and I don't subscribe to the "we've been found out" thread of argument. Hull are the best counter attcking team in the division- 2.5 times more counter attacking goals than any other team in the division (unsurprisingly we've not scored one).
I really hope it is turned around- I'm not a huge "liker" of SP, but think that change isn't a great thing at the moment whilst we're still just a run of wins away from the top.

[Statto]

Interesting, so if we're say 7-10 at Xmas and behind the pack by say 10+ points to top 2 and 5+ points to playoffs, you'd still want to give Parker the season? Or have I read that wrong?

Yes, most definitely. I fail to see why that is so interesting though?

One of the reasons is that I obviously have another view on what is a fair chance than some on here. Which is fine. Another reason is that I believe that the chance of the Khan's messing up the replacement is very high. Therefore I think that we will not improve if we replace Parker. At least not this season.

I find it interesting as that would be unacceptable to me and a complete failure so you obviously accept it whereas I don't. I'd rather we didn't accept mediocrity  to save face and the guys who employ, do their job and actually get the right man.

But out of interest, if we are "say 7-10 at Xmas and behind the pack by say 10+ points to top 2 and 5+ points to playoffs" and we then sack Parker and "get the right man", then what do you expect to happen in the second half of the season?

Because I can tell you now, it will not be us making the top 2.

[FFC1987]

Interesting, so if we're say 7-10 at Xmas and behind the pack by say 10+ points to top 2 and 5+ points to playoffs, you'd still want to give Parker the season? Or have I read that wrong?

Yes, most definitely. I fail to see why that is so interesting though?

One of the reasons is that I obviously have another view on what is a fair chance than some on here. Which is fine. Another reason is that I believe that the chance of the Khan's messing up the replacement is very high. Therefore I think that we will not improve if we replace Parker. At least not this season.

I find it interesting as that would be unacceptable to me and a complete failure so you obviously accept it whereas I don't. I'd rather we didn't accept mediocrity  to save face and the guys who employ, do their job and actually get the right man.

But out of interest, if we are "say 7-10 at Xmas and behind the pack by say 10+ points to top 2 and 5+ points to playoffs" and we then sack Parker and "get the right man", then what do you expect to happen in the second half of the season?

Because I can tell you now, it will not be us making the top 2.

Win every game and get promoted as champions obviously