Parkerball feels empty

[Jim©]

Parker is single handedly destroying all that is dear to so many who support this club.

In an age of over reactions I think that the above beats the lot.

[Dr Quinzel]

The best high possession football doesn't come from retaining the ball in areas the other team can't be damaged, it comes from pressing and winning the ball back so high and fast that the other team cannot manage to have any possession themselves.

The best teams who we recognise as possession teams down the years, ie Barca in the early Pep years, were able to do both, but the key was how they won the ball back as that allowed them to still be offensive and dynamic, and still be leading the possession statistic so well.

We need to change our thinking of this.

[Ordar]

Plenty of valid points in this thread.

I think the main issue with the stupid tactics we've been employing all season, is that generally it results in the opposition being given more goal scoring opportunities (due to us losing the ball in dangerous areas) than we are creating ourselves (as the ball is never in the opposition penalty area).

How we play is incredibly easy to defend against, and teams know that they dont need to create anything themselves, as we'll give them high percentage scoring opportunities on our own.

The passing is slow, boring and directionless. The attacking players we have are totally being wasted. If we didnt have the best striker in the league (probably ever) up front to convert one of the half chances that comes his way, we'd be in alot of trouble. barely anyone else scores.

I personally think we'll fall away and wont make the playoffs. The sooner Parker is gone the better

[Jim©]

Plenty of valid points in this thread.

I think the main issue with the stupid tactics we've been employing all season, is that generally it results in the opposition being given more goal scoring opportunities (due to us losing the ball in dangerous areas) than we are creating ourselves (as the ball is never in the opposition penalty area).

How we play is incredibly easy to defend against, and teams know that they dont need to create anything themselves, as we'll give them high percentage scoring opportunities on our own.

The passing is slow, boring and directionless. The attacking players we have are totally being wasted. If we didnt have the best striker in the league (probably ever) up front to convert one of the half chances that comes his way, we'd be in alot of trouble. barely anyone else scores.

I personally think we'll fall away and wont make the playoffs. The sooner Parker is gone the better

Mitro has had the most shots of any player in the division this season. He has a goals per shot of 0.17, TC for instance has had a lot less shots, but a goals per shot of 0.20. Ollie Watkins a lot less shots but a conversion of 0.3 goals per shot (the highest in division).
We've also had the 4th most touches in opposition area which discounts another of your arguments.
Oh, and the most goals from open play in the division, which shows that we're actually not that easy to defend against (and we've had over 100 more shots than our opponents have against us).

[Statto]

Having had the 4th most touches in the opposition area isn't a particularly great stat for anyone thinking we should be aiming to finish higher than 4th in the table.

[Nero]

Plenty of valid points in this thread.

I think the main issue with the stupid tactics we've been employing all season, is that generally it results in the opposition being given more goal scoring opportunities (due to us losing the ball in dangerous areas) than we are creating ourselves (as the ball is never in the opposition penalty area).

How we play is incredibly easy to defend against, and teams know that they dont need to create anything themselves, as we'll give them high percentage scoring opportunities on our own.

The passing is slow, boring and directionless. The attacking players we have are totally being wasted. If we didnt have the best striker in the league (probably ever) up front to convert one of the half chances that comes his way, we'd be in alot of trouble. barely anyone else scores.

I personally think we'll fall away and wont make the playoffs. The sooner Parker is gone the better

Mitro has had the most shots of any player in the division this season. He has a goals per shot of 0.17, TC for instance has had a lot less shots, but a goals per shot of 0.20. Ollie Watkins a lot less shots but a conversion of 0.3 goals per shot (the highest in division).
We've also had the 4th most touches in opposition area which discounts another of your arguments.
Oh, and the most goals from open play in the division, which shows that we're actually not that easy to defend against (and we've had over 100 more shots than our opponents have against us).

some might say 4th most touches because no one shoots and just pass backward and we have to score from open play as we don't do set-pieces and how many of those shots have been from outside of the area and how many have been clear cut chances

[Sting of the North]

Wasn't the fourth most touches thing in direct response to the claim that we never have the ball in the opposition's penalty area? Not a claim that we are great, but maybe a try to balance the debate a bit?

[HobGoblin]

If people enjoy the way we are playing at the moment they must have something wrong with them.

The pass pass pass then back back back is so dull.

[The Rational Fan]

Wasn't the fourth most touches thing in direct response to the claim that we never have the ball in the opposition's penalty area? Not a claim that we are great, but maybe a try to balance the debate a bit?

There is nothing wrong with Parker's tactics unless you think we have players capable of more. Statistically, as England manager Sven-Goran Ericisson (three quarters) has marginally better statistics than Gareth Southgate (one semi), but most would consider the former a under-performer and the later an over-performer. One could say SGE didn't have the players to do better, but i consider the 2006 team much better than 2018

In 18/19, we got a bunch of players that were good over Europe and through them in the Premier League that didn't perform as a unit with recruitment and coaching getting the blame, most people assumed the recruitment of top Ligue players was the problem and not the coaching. I was one of a minority that believed it was coaching, and mostly Slavisa needed more than one season to make the new players into a great team.

In 19/20, we recruited players that torn apart the championship for other teams. We could still blame recruitment and/or coaching, but apart from the extremist most people have started to realise that this bunch of players are too good for being the 4th-6th best attacking team in the division.

Blaming recruitment has been masking over problems for the past few seasons. We didn't get great value for £100m of recruitment, but we started with a team killing the championship. No doubt recruitment has been a little below average, but with the players we have a decent coaching staff would have been in a relegation battle until the season end last season and be in an automatic promotion spot this season.

Both seasons we have dropped half the points available against relegation teams and more than half the points against promoted teams. Our DOF spent a lot of money and probably didn't get great value for money, but coaches didn't get all the value out of those players. Any coach should be able to beat Charlton and Barnsley with the players we have.

[kiwian]

Agree with most of this. I watched the wellington Phoenix ( ALeague) game recently-in possession from the back with forward players running off the ball to give defenders choices. Great to watch and high skill level. I wonder how many times Odoi moved up the right in space, stopped and passed sideways/back. No one was making diagonal runs in front of him wanting the ball. Turgid is a perfect description of this performance.

[Dr Quinzel]

There's a lot wrong with Parker's tactics if you're someone who has to stand, freezing their nuts off whilst watching it, hoping to avoid falling asleep. Probably easier to stomach from home. I could pardon it if it was beyond doubt successful (thinking Mourinho at Inter/ 1-0 to the Arsenal etc), but I don't even think it is that.

I would say that recruitment has been as good as Tony and his team have managed since he's had control, excusing the delayed signing of Hector as the main aberration. For once I do feel like the manager has been given the best tools, or as close as is reasonably possible to, to achieve success. I don't consider playoffs success this year due to the position we are in with parachute payments and the time urgency surrounding that opportunity.

There feels to be a feel of the inevitable about games, and I find myself more surprised when we do grind out a win from it than anything else. Many have said Bracewell and it does take me back to that 0-0 style. I said very early in the season that I just don't look forward to games anymore and got hounded - I now hear many others saying the same. I'm not sure that it is beyond repair, but I also don't see that Scott wants to play any differently; he's been Mourinho-esque since he was trying to secure the job and now he has it, the style hasn't evolved despite the team being much more well equipped.

[Statto]

Wasn't the fourth most touches thing in direct response to the claim that we never have the ball in the opposition's penalty area? Not a claim that we are great, but maybe a try to balance the debate a bit?

Maybe so, but it's still not meaningful relative to our expectations. It's like someone complaining our defence isn't good enough for automatic promotion, and another person arguing back that it's actually the 5th best in the division.

[The Rational Fan]

Wasn't the fourth most touches thing in direct response to the claim that we never have the ball in the opposition's penalty area? Not a claim that we are great, but maybe a try to balance the debate a bit?

Maybe so, but it's still not meaningful relative to our expectations. It's like someone complaining our defence isn't good enough for automatic promotion, and another person arguing back that it's actually the 5th best in the division.

Maybe this team is not that strong, but we have five players Knockaert, Cairney, Reid, Cav and Mitro that should be challenging for a place in this years "PFA Championship Team of the Year", plus there backups Kamara, Onamah, Stefjo and Kebano should be pretty good too. We should be scoring 2 goals per game, if we conceed a lot I can accept it but we have the players to score more. Parker has failed in attack.

[Jim©]

Wasn't the fourth most touches thing in direct response to the claim that we never have the ball in the opposition's penalty area? Not a claim that we are great, but maybe a try to balance the debate a bit?

Maybe so, but it's still not meaningful relative to our expectations. It's like someone complaining our defence isn't good enough for automatic promotion, and another person arguing back that it's actually the 5th best in the division.

As Sting said, i was responding to a specific point about the ball "never being in the opposition penalty area" which the stat shows is clearly incorrect. There were other inaccuracies that I countered too. Not trying to be clever or say that we're playing exceptionally, just trying to show a bit of reason against things that soon become gospel and another reason to change  manager.

[toshes mate]

Mitro has had the most shots of any player in the division this season. He has a goals per shot of 0.17, TC for instance has had a lot less shots, but a goals per shot of 0.20. Ollie Watkins a lot less shots but a conversion of 0.3 goals per shot (the highest in division).

As Johan Cruyff once said 'my talents and techniques couldn't be detected by computers or statistics' ... or as Douglas Adams put it "The complexities of cause and effect defy analysis."

[Jim©]

Mitro has had the most shots of any player in the division this season. He has a goals per shot of 0.17, TC for instance has had a lot less shots, but a goals per shot of 0.20. Ollie Watkins a lot less shots but a conversion of 0.3 goals per shot (the highest in division).

As Johan Cruyff once said 'my talents and techniques couldn't be detected by computers or statistics' ... or as Douglas Adams put it "The complexities of cause and effect defy analysis."

I'm not sure there's anything there that we don't see with the naked eye; that he has a lot of shots (perhaps dispelling the idea he gets no chances) and that he's not quite as accurate as he could be (though I'd never complain with the numbers of goals he scores).
His favourite quote of mine was something like "i dont believe in god. in spain every player does the sign of the cross when they go on to the pitch. If there was a god, and 22 players did this, every game would end in a draw".

[Twig]

I've tried to be patient with our football this season.  Indeed I have nothing against a possession based game if it is constructive possession.  But after getting soaked attending the Barnsley game and then sitting through 90 mins watching the Derby game on Sky I'm where MJG is. 

We are 3rd and still (theoretically) in with a shout of automatic promotion but I can't raise a shred of excitement.  Our football has become more and more conservative. We never see the TC of old anymore.  Top players like Knock, Cav etc. disappoint week in, week out.  The atmosphere on the terraces in as muted as the mood seems to be amongst the players.

I would love Parker to take off the shackles and give this team licence to play quicker, more adventurous football but I know now that he just won't.  Early on I thought; ok, he has to solidify our porous defence so fair enough.  To be fair our defense is a bit less leaky but at what a cost! 

That's it for me, I'll trudge along to home games for the rest of the season out of a sense of duty but with no anticipation of enjoyment.  If Parker is still there next season then no season ticket for me, thank you very much.

[toshes mate]

Mitro has had the most shots of any player in the division this season. He has a goals per shot of 0.17, TC for instance has had a lot less shots, but a goals per shot of 0.20. Ollie Watkins a lot less shots but a conversion of 0.3 goals per shot (the highest in division).

As Johan Cruyff once said 'my talents and techniques couldn't be detected by computers or statistics' ... or as Douglas Adams put it "The complexities of cause and effect defy analysis."

I'm not sure there's anything there that we don't see with the naked eye; that he has a lot of shots (perhaps dispelling the idea he gets no chances) and that he's not quite as accurate as he could be (though I'd never complain with the numbers of goals he scores).
His favourite quote of mine was something like "i dont believe in god. in spain every player does the sign of the cross when they go on to the pitch. If there was a god, and 22 players did this, every game would end in a draw".

Our eyes are normally pretty good except when they are pretty bad but our brains and memory tend to scrambled by emotional context rather than through reasoning.  I don't listen to commentary when watching games simply because I trust my brain to assimilate situations better although I tend to deteriorate rapidly when bad decisions are made by officials that, IMO, spoil games.  That is why I love to watch the full ninety minutes over again (without commentary) and see whether I react the same way to incidents as I did the first time.  If the emotion is the same as it was 'live' then I judge it as a game changing moment.  My problem with Parker is that I often get frustrated simply looking at the team sheet and thinking 'Oh no, not again'.  It has been a common feature with managers and coaches in the Khan era the only exceptions being Jokanovic and, strangely enough, Symons.

My 'most apposite to Parker' Cruyff quote is 'Quality without results is pointless. Result without quality is boring.'

[Statto]

Wasn't the fourth most touches thing in direct response to the claim that we never have the ball in the opposition's penalty area? Not a claim that we are great, but maybe a try to balance the debate a bit?

Maybe so, but it's still not meaningful relative to our expectations. It's like someone complaining our defence isn't good enough for automatic promotion, and another person arguing back that it's actually the 5th best in the division.

As Sting said, i was responding to a specific point about the ball "never being in the opposition penalty area" which the stat shows is clearly incorrect. There were other inaccuracies that I countered too. Not trying to be clever or say that we're playing exceptionally, just trying to show a bit of reason against things that soon become gospel and another reason to change  manager.

If you interpreted the original comment literally, ie that it absolutely "never" happens, then I agree, your stat shows it was incorrect. I interpreted as meaning something along the lines of we don't have the ball in the opposition penalty area as much as we should if we're expecting to compete for the automatic positions.

[Sting of the North]

I don't think anyone interpreted it literally. It is however fair to assume that it was originally meant to indicate that we are poor at getting to the oppositions penalty area. Which we are seemingly not, although we could be better. It should not be needed to be top 2 on all 'positive' stats in order to compete for promotion.

With that said, I don't think the stat of how much a team touches the ball in the oppositions penalty area is necessarily indicative of how many quality chances are created, which should be more important.