Parker and next season

[Bocanegra]

Hey all,

I appreciate its a time to fully get behind the team and this thread isn't designed to cause disharmony but curious if anyone thinks the same:

I would get rid of Parker if we get promoted but would possibly keep him if we are still in championship. Would still look at other options but would be far more inclined to give him a chance in this league than in the prem.

Just thought Id post as haven't heard anyone else say this.

[Andy S]

I'd keep him and see how we started whatever league we were in

[Twig]

I don't see how on earth you can sack a manager for getting his team promoted. Hardly a great advert for the club and why on earth would good candidates come forward if that is how we treat success?

[ChesterTheTabby]

Whichever league - Parker stays.

[RaySmith]

I think Parker's defensively minded approach, could serve us well in the Prem, and  help us do better than last time.

And we will hopefully keep the  nucleus and team spirit of the team that got us up, with  two or three astute, Prem experienced acquisitions.

[filham]

It may be worth looking at history and previous managers who took us into the top flight.

1. Frank Osborne 1949
Frank stayed and the team did well for a couple of seasons.

2. Beddy Jezzard 1959
   Beddy played for us and won promotion in his first season as manager and was a huge success keeping us in the top flight for some six years until he resigned because of not being consulted about the transfer of Alan Mullerry.

3. Tigana
Tigan stayed on after promotion and set us of on a long stay in the Premier league.

4. Jocanovic.
Jocanovic stayed on after promotion but was quickly released as a newly built team failed and continued to fail after his release. The club had made bad signings which may not have been entirely under the managers control.

If we manage to get promotion of course you keep your manager and hope that his success continues, we always have done and until probable Stats based interference it has worked well for us.

Parker's player background with us  can be compared to Beddy Jezzard who was a great success.

[Penfold]

It may be worth looking at history and previous managers who took us into the top flight.

1. Frank Osborne 1949
Frank stayed and the team did well for a couple of seasons.

2. Beddy Jezzard 1959
   Beddy played for us and won promotion in his first season as manager and was a huge success keeping us in the top flight for some six years until he resigned because of not being consulted about the transfer of Alan Mullerry.

3. Tigana
Tigan stayed on after promotion and set us of on a long stay in the Premier league.

4. Jocanovic.
Jocanovic stayed on after promotion but was quickly released as a newly built team failed and continued to fail after his release. The club had made bad signings which may not have been entirely under the managers control.

If we manage to get promotion of course you keep your manager and hope that his success continues, we always have done and until probable Stats based interference it has worked well for us.

Parker's player background with us  can be compared to Beddy Jezzard who was a great success.

Frank Osborne actually stepped down from team management in 1949 and Bill Dodgin (Senior) took over team matters. Osborne remained general manager for a number of years and did, I believe, resume charge of team affairs during the mid 1950s.

[bog]

What ever happens Scott Parker had given us a chance of a quick return. After that clown Ranieri he has bought hope back to the club. I don't like the term 'get rid'. We could be Stoke, Hull, Wigan, Sunderland, Portsmouth or Huddersfield. I still miss Slav but for his first managerial appointment I think Scott has not flopped.  049:gif


092.gif   

[Matt10]

What ever happens Scott Parker had given us a chance of a quick return. After that clown Ranieri he has bought hope back to the club. I don't like the term 'get rid'. We could be Stoke, Hull, Wigan, Sunderland, Portsmouth or Huddersfield. I still miss Slav but for his first managerial appointment I think Scott has not flopped.  049:gif


092.gif

Agreed. I think if he got a bit more out of the wingers we signed in Cav and Knock, we'd be in much better shape. Maybe it will be a late stretch, we will see.

I've been re-watching last season of Slav's team versus Ranieri. It's just so obvious now how Ranieri's passive tactics and counter-attack dependence set us on a path of complacency and even more pressure on ourselves. Even though we made so many individual mistakes in Slav's reign, it was just tactically much better. The biggest issue with Slav is that he made subs when we didn't need them, or rarely made like-for-like subs.

I see more Slav tactics in Parker than I do Ranieri, but the wing play for Parker is less effective. Knockaert holds onto the ball too long in very wide positions compared to Schurrle who only holds onto the ball long enough if he is more central. Schurrle's key passes are world class while Knockaert is all effort, but even Vietto had better quality passing. I think Knock looked better when he went central, such as vs Sheffield Wed match, as it forced him to move the ball about quicker.

The movement off the ball by Slav's tactics is so much more varied compared to Parker as well. Slav doesn't just keep players wide to receive square passes. Instead, the wingers are constantly tucking in central and moving defending players to overload sides, so that we can switch the point of the attack. Parker opts for more square, to feet, passes to the wingers - who build off of square passes back to the midfielders or fullbacks. They become glued to the sides, and the way we get penetration is the single movement of the advanced midfielder such as BDR to connect triangle passes to our central midfielders. It wasn't until the most recent QPR match that Parker started pushing one of the other central midfielders (Cairney or Onomah) to get higher up in our attacks in order to get more penetration. This movement gives our wingers just a bit more freedom, but one has to wonder why it took Parker this long to start implementing that strategy.

Overall, with the right personnel in the winger spots, I think Parker deserves much more time. I also believe we are going to start to see more benefits of his strategy pushing the central midfielder up higher, resulting in more scoring opportunities. Hopefully with BDR scoring (finally), Knock will find his scoring form as well.

[FFC1987]

Regardless of whether you think he's a good fit for the Prem, if he gets us promoted, he deserves a shot at it. I don't want to be a club that barrels on managers after actually achieving something. Having said that, if he fails to get us up, I think he needs to go. He's had ample time to prepare for a promotion push and as seen by the table now, it was ripe for the taking. So no excuses but credit achievements.

[SuffolkWhite]

Keep SP regardless if we can keep the squad together, as I feel a couple of additions would get us automatic next season. If we go up then 4 tried and trusted Prem players could see us stay up.

[FFC1987]

Keep SP regardless if we can keep the squad together, as I feel a couple of additions would get us automatic next season. If we go up then 4 tried and trusted Prem players could see us stay up.

I can't see us keeping Mitro without promotion. Hopefully I'm wrong but he deserves a better standard than championship.

[Bassey the warrior]

If we get promoted then we will have to keep him but I don't see it working out either way. Credit where credit is due we are very good defensively, but attacking-wise we are very average and only really seem to score due to the individual quality of Mitrovic.

[Bocanegra]

Well Im not against giving him a chance but you must allow him to have the majority of next season then. None of this gone by November business. For me, we will get torn to shreds under Parker and I would rather address this in the Summer than 2 months into the season with new signings made.

[Statto]

Tough one. The expectation had to be promotion this year but even if he doesn't achieve that, we'll have come bloody close, so it would seem harsh to sack him. And if we go up, whilst I sympathise with the concern that he may well be out of his depth in the PL, again it would be extremely harsh to sack a manager after getting us promoted.

I do however agree with a much higher degree of certainty that if he stays, irrespective of the division, he has to be given the whole season, unless we're in a situation of Magath-type severity. Our intra-season manager changes under that Khans have never worked. Even when they got an appointment right with Jokanovic, he was crap until he was given a whole season.

[ByTheRiver]

I don't see how on earth you can sack a manager for getting his team promoted. Hardly a great advert for the club and why on earth would good candidates come forward if that is how we treat success?

This. You can't sack a manager who gets a team promoted. And, should he do that (despite reservations about possible under performance against comparable resources), he deserves a shot at the Premier League. Strangely, I think his tactics would suit us there. A team scrapping for their lives and pinching what they can, rather than the big fish with the money players that every side will want to beat (and expectations are high).

[ByTheRiver]

I've been re-watching last season of Slav's team versus Ranieri. It's just so obvious now how Ranieri's passive tactics and counter-attack dependence set us on a path of complacency and even more pressure on ourselves. Even though we made so many individual mistakes in Slav's reign, it was just tactically much better. The biggest issue with Slav is that he made subs when we didn't need them, or rarely made like-for-like subs.

I don't want to turn it into a Slav thread as, yes, he's gone and not coming back, etc, but I do agree. I also think that a lot depended on confidence that was lost in narrow margins (being 2-0 up at Brighton and squandering it, that game against Arsenal where we missed a hatful - Sess with a open goal tap in from 2 yards that he air shotted - and we got whacked, even the opening game against Palace where I thought we played them off the park but naively got hit.

We went up wondering if the way we played would work, we invested a lot in midfield (as we probably realised that was the basis of the way we played and having better ball players than the opposition was key in the Champ, so they tried to get one for the Prem in Seri), and confidence was on a knife edge. If we had held on for the away at Brighton, if we had beat (or not got whacked) by Arsenal, etc, the team could have been playing the way they did under Slav, growing in confidence, and it may have been similar to Tigana days.

But, alas we will never know.

Anyway, at this point, with the results and gritty performances in the last two weeks taking us to a final day showdown, I can't see how the club can legitimately remove Parker at the end of the season regardless of what happens at this point (barring maybe a sizeable loss at Wigan and a meek exit in the play off semi) so he has my support. 

[DanVerSar]

If we go up, he stays. If not then I think we should be bringing in someone else. I know it's not easy to steady a ship after relegation but with this squad, as others have said, we should have comfortably finished in the top two. Parker's tactical naiviety where we have picked up 0 or only 1 point from games we should be winning comfortably will ultimately cost us. To get 0 points from home games against Hull, Reading and Barnsley was an embarrassment.

Picking up 0 points from the first 2 games back after restart (Leeds and Brentford) has also hurt our chances of automatics. If you can't win those games you need to at least draw so no team gain a points advantage, especially with the top of the table as tight as it has been.

We're still in with a chance via automatics or playoffs so fully behind the boys but do think Scott should go if we fail to achieve our objective.

[LittleErn]

It may be worth looking at history and previous managers who took us into the top flight.

1. Frank Osborne 1949
Frank stayed and the team did well for a couple of seasons.

2. Beddy Jezzard 1959
   Beddy played for us and won promotion in his first season as manager and was a huge success keeping us in the top flight for some six years until he resigned because of not being consulted about the transfer of Alan Mullerry.

3. Tigana
Tigan stayed on after promotion and set us of on a long stay in the Premier league.

4. Jocanovic.
Jocanovic stayed on after promotion but was quickly released as a newly built team failed and continued to fail after his release. The club had made bad signings which may not have been entirely under the managers control.

If we manage to get promotion of course you keep your manager and hope that his success continues, we always have done and until probable Stats based interference it has worked well for us.

Parker's player background with us  can be compared to Beddy Jezzard who was a great success.

I was with you until your last sentence. There is no comparison between what Jezzard did for us on the pitch, and Parker's playing career with Fulham. It was the greatest tragedy of my young life when injury forced him to retire far too early. I have an image embedded in my mind of Jezzard running at full pelt and a long pass falling just behind him - without breaking stride, he flicked it up and over his head with his heel and went on to score. So much morre exciting than anything Parker offered, good as he was.

[Wolf]

Should we get promoted I think Parker will have proved himself and earned the right to manage us in the PL. Should we not be promoted we will have failed to reach the key objective, and in doing so we will have underachieved, and I don't see why we would keep him.