we are now further from safety than we was

[Woolly Mammoth]

May I suggest that there is a bloke who when called answers to the name of Scott Parker ex player and ex coach who is currently doing a grand job as Manager of Fulham against opponents and also their biased referees. A bird in the hand is worth two in the Bush, and Scott Parker is in a better position than anyone to lead Fulham than anybody at this time. Let us let him do his job even though he is hamstrung by not having any other strikers to choose from.

[colinwhite]

Keep sticking to your little snippets of statistics . I prefer to go by what I am seeing growing in front of my eyes. A team that is confident and together,pulling in the same direction and looks 100 percent behind Parker,who is looking as though he could be one of the brightest managers coming through . And you want rid and would contemplate Allardyce ! 
At last the club is looking like it is heading in the right direction and we are competetive and yet we are all still having to read all this crap . It really does beggar belief!!!!

[Statto]

scott is doing a great job as far as you can tell even if we get relegated? is that how far we have fallen, that we are now just making up the numbers.

We came up in 4th, spent very little money (because TK had already spent it all on Fabri, Knockaert, Seri, Mawson et al) and most of the key players weren't signed in time for the start of the season. All in all, I don't think it's reasonable to expect us to be anywhere besides 17th/18th.

well big Sam currently has a better points per game average than Parker. But I agree it probably wouldn't be much of an upgrade.

Not over the same period, ie the last 5 games. Which again shows that we're being undermined by a crap start when we had Ream and Odoi at CB.

[fulhamben]

scott is doing a great job as far as you can tell even if we get relegated? is that how far we have fallen, that we are now just making up the numbers.

We came up in 4th, spent very little money (because TK had already spent it all on Fabri, Knockaert, Seri, Mawson et al) and most of the key players weren't signed in time for the start of the season. All in all, I don't think it's reasonable to expect us to be anywhere besides 17th/18th.

well big Sam currently has a better points per game average than Parker. But I agree it probably wouldn't be much of an upgrade.

Not over the same period, ie the last 5 games. Which again shows that we're being undermined by a crap start when we had Ream and Odoi at CB.

no the last 5 games they are exactly the same aren't they. Albeit brom don't have as good a squad. And come on now, budget isn't a factor.  Tosin robinson tete aina and Anderson cost less than mlm didn't they.  And yes maybe 17/ 18th is the best we can hope for. It's just a shame that we are so far away from 17th currently.

[Lyle from Hangeland]

You will not hear a different opinion from me. He got us up and he can get us up again if the worst happens.
Look at Norwich if you want to see a good recent example. Top of the division having been easily relegated. Sold a couple of players to balance the books but kept a core.
If we go down I would back Scott to get us back up. Consistency of management and the stability it brings is so important. For the record I don't think we will go down

Couldn't agree more. Smart, mindful take.

[Statto]

no the last 5 games they are exactly the same aren't they.

Yes but I was replying to your point that Big Sam had done better

And come on now, budget isn't a factor.  Tosin robinson tete aina and Anderson cost less than mlm didn't they. 

Of course it is. Tosin, Robinson and Tete cost peanuts for a reason. Two of them were playing in the Championship last year. At this level they're bang average but Parker has got them playing the best football of their careers. That's what good managers do, like Hodgson did with Etuhu. Admittedly Anderson is quality but on paper so was Chambers in 18/19. Difference is that Jokanovic had players like him playing the worst football of their careers for us.

And FWIW i expect the aggregate cost of buying those 5 would be about 10x what we spent on MLM but not sure that's relevant to the point we're discussing...

And yes maybe 17/ 18th is the best we can hope for. It's just a shame that we are so far away from 17th currently.

5pts from 17th with two games in hand, and a six pointer coming up against the team we need to catch. Not "so far away" IMO (but clearly you disagree... so be it)

[fulhamben]

no the last 5 games they are exactly the same aren't they.

Yes but I was replying to your point that Big Sam had done better

And come on now, budget isn't a factor.  Tosin robinson tete aina and Anderson cost less than mlm didn't they. 

Of course it is. Tosin, Robinson and Tete cost peanuts for a reason. Two of them were playing in the Championship last year. At this level they're bang average but Parker has got them playing the best football of their careers. That's what good managers do, like Hodgson did with Etuhu. Admittedly Anderson is quality but on paper so was Chambers in 18/19. Difference is that Jokanovic had players like him playing the worst football of their careers for us.

And FWIW i expect the aggregate cost of buying those 5 would be about 10x what we spent on MLM but not sure that's relevant to the point we're discussing...

And yes maybe 17/ 18th is the best we can hope for. It's just a shame that we are so far away from 17th currently.

5pts from 17th with two games in hand, and a six pointer coming up against the team we need to catch. Not "so far away" IMO (but clearly you disagree... so be it)

is this like us finishing joint 3rd last season. We are four points from 17th.

[MJG]

Over last 4 and 6 games WBA and Fulham are the same points wise. We are no better off as I said before from when Sam took them over.

[Statto]

is this like us finishing joint 3rd last season.

Yes Ben. It's called reality. But I know that's not something you care about when discussing Parker.

[fulhamben]

is this like us finishing joint 3rd last season.

Yes Ben. It's called reality. But I know that's not something you care about when discussing Parker.

😂

[jayffc]

Yes...but put simply...we didnt have 2 games in hand on one of those teams above us. If youd compared us after 17 games whilst Brighton had also only played 17, youd find us 2 points off safety given they wouldnt have played their last 2.

Just overall better to look objectively at how were shaping up, and what we look capable of doing now we have a considerably stronger defence and are currently looking to add some more firepower.

As stated ...under Roy Hodgson we were all but relegated with just a few games to play its foolish to get drawn into all this with over half a season to play. Let's just see where we are once the window closes and hope we have some capable reinforcements

so let me ask you this, do you think we would have stayed up if we never sacked sanchez and didnt appoint hodgson

What a bizarre diversion , the Hodgson point was literslly just to say were not cut adrift completely and anything is possible... but comparison is at least relevant because Hodgson built our team around being better organised defensively and harder to beat, then later on managed to get us winning.

Under Sanchez the football was dire (many referred to it as long ball s***te and as mentioned hed completely lost the locker room. This year the team seem behind him and the style of play is ininfinitley better. You keep cherry picking random stats or moments that fit the narrative while ignoring as early as our last prem season when we sacked 3 managers and still got relegated. but it could go any way. We could just as equally sack Parker, and still go down .

To being us back to this moment instead if randonlynco paring to the  past , weve been playing much better....as mentioned again , just see what comes in during the january break and then go from.

This is coming from someone who's been deeply critical of Parker at times, but to compare our chances with that under the likes of Sanchez is way off. Were a much better team than then, with a few additions in happy to give Scott the chance to push on.

[fulhamben]

Yes...but put simply...we didnt have 2 games in hand on one of those teams above us. If youd compared us after 17 games whilst Brighton had also only played 17, youd find us 2 points off safety given they wouldnt have played their last 2.

Just overall better to look objectively at how were shaping up, and what we look capable of doing now we have a considerably stronger defence and are currently looking to add some more firepower.

As stated ...under Roy Hodgson we were all but relegated with just a few games to play its foolish to get drawn into all this with over half a season to play. Let's just see where we are once the window closes and hope we have some capable reinforcements

so let me ask you this, do you think we would have stayed up if we never sacked sanchez and didnt appoint hodgson

What a bizarre diversion , the Hodgson point was literslly just to say were not cut adrift completely and anything is possible... but comparison is at least relevant because Hodgson built our team around being better organised defensively and harder to beat, then later on managed to get us winning.

Under Sanchez the football was dire (many referred to it as long ball s***te and as mentioned hed completely lost the locker room. This year the team seem behind him and the style of play is ininfinitley better. You keep cherry picking random stats or moments that fit the narrative while ignoring as early as our last prem season when we sacked 3 managers and still got relegated. but it could go any way. We could just as equally sack Parker, and still go down .

To being us back to this moment instead if randonlynco paring to the  past , weve been playing much better....as mentioned again , just see what comes in during the january break and then go from.

This is coming from someone who's been deeply critical of Parker at times, but to compare our chances with that under the likes of Sanchez is way off. Were a much better team than then, with a few additions in happy to give Scott the chance to push on.

we are a much better team but worse off now than we were under sanchez at the same point. we might look better and be harder to beat, but as it stands, sanchez team was more affective than this one

[FFC1987]

You will not hear a different opinion from me. He got us up and he can get us up again if the worst happens.
Look at Norwich if you want to see a good recent example. Top of the division having been easily relegated. Sold a couple of players to balance the books but kept a core.
If we go down I would back Scott to get us back up. Consistency of management and the stability it brings is so important. For the record I don't think we will go down

Couldn't agree more. Smart, mindful take.

I think you've mistook what I said when different opinion. I was referring to the attitudes and posts recently suggesting 'we're too good to go down' and the like. Or that they're 'confident' we'll stay up. If you think so after defeats or draws to Brighton and Brom, well, I'd say your overly optimistic. I certainly won't be calling for a managers head who knows the players, has experience in getting us promoted and has really helped the club go from strength to strength. I think you'll hear a few more Parker out posts maybe, but I think people will naturally be more inclined to say we'll likely be relegated if we can't get victories from those games.

[jayffc]

Yes...but put simply...we didnt have 2 games in hand on one of those teams above us. If youd compared us after 17 games whilst Brighton had also only played 17, youd find us 2 points off safety given they wouldnt have played their last 2.

Just overall better to look objectively at how were shaping up, and what we look capable of doing now we have a considerably stronger defence and are currently looking to add some more firepower.

As stated ...under Roy Hodgson we were all but relegated with just a few games to play its foolish to get drawn into all this with over half a season to play. Let's just see where we are once the window closes and hope we have some capable reinforcements

so let me ask you this, do you think we would have stayed up if we never sacked sanchez and didnt appoint hodgson

What a bizarre diversion , the Hodgson point was literslly just to say were not cut adrift completely and anything is possible... but comparison is at least relevant because Hodgson built our team around being better organised defensively and harder to beat, then later on managed to get us winning.

Under Sanchez the football was dire (many referred to it as long ball s***te and as mentioned hed completely lost the locker room. This year the team seem behind him and the style of play is ininfinitley better. You keep cherry picking random stats or moments that fit the narrative while ignoring as early as our last prem season when we sacked 3 managers and still got relegated. but it could go any way. We could just as equally sack Parker, and still go down .

To being us back to this moment instead if randonlynco paring to the  past , weve been playing much better....as mentioned again , just see what comes in during the january break and then go from.

This is coming from someone who's been deeply critical of Parker at times, but to compare our chances with that under the likes of Sanchez is way off. Were a much better team than then, with a few additions in happy to give Scott the chance to push on.

we are a much better team but worse off now than we were under sanchez at the same point. we might look better and be harder to beat, but as it stands, sanchez team was more affective than this one

Yes...but different circumstances all together which is why comparing to random stats doesnt tell the full picture and isnt particularly useful...wether we were closer in points to safety is only one element....

The issue for Sanchez was having also only got 2 wins that season by December....we were deteriorating fast and on a strongly downward trend. Sanchez was fired off the back of a string of losses (think it was like 4 in 5 or something like that if I recall) and it was clear to say we weren't showing any signs of improving under him. Plus the football was dire.

This season having started shakily, we replaced 9 of the 11 starters and since then have seen an upward trend that has led us to the point where we just went on an unbeaten run in 5 or 6 games and against some very good clubs. This has led many of us to the point where the general feeling is that with a couple of striking options there is plenty to suggest we are capable of turning some of our draws into wins...

It may not materialise of course but the trend is that we have improved from a bad start with new additions, to the point where everyone in the league has noticed our vast improvements... that makes dumping the manager out at a time when we could well bring in a striker or 2 to really ramp things up, inadvisable....

Forget getting caught up in numbers...we could equally fish out various cherry picked examples that work the other way. But were better off looking objectively at what we are seeing right now and making judgments based on that.

Anyway....if you disagree with that so be it I guess. Again...wasnt a Parker fan last year but there is a reason every friend of mine who supports other clubs in the league that were ripping me early in the season, have all changed their tune and think well stay up. They're seeing what most of us are seeing.

[fulhamben]

Yes...but put simply...we didnt have 2 games in hand on one of those teams above us. If youd compared us after 17 games whilst Brighton had also only played 17, youd find us 2 points off safety given they wouldnt have played their last 2.

Just overall better to look objectively at how were shaping up, and what we look capable of doing now we have a considerably stronger defence and are currently looking to add some more firepower.

As stated ...under Roy Hodgson we were all but relegated with just a few games to play its foolish to get drawn into all this with over half a season to play. Let's just see where we are once the window closes and hope we have some capable reinforcements

so let me ask you this, do you think we would have stayed up if we never sacked sanchez and didnt appoint hodgson

What a bizarre diversion , the Hodgson point was literslly just to say were not cut adrift completely and anything is possible... but comparison is at least relevant because Hodgson built our team around being better organised defensively and harder to beat, then later on managed to get us winning.

Under Sanchez the football was dire (many referred to it as long ball s***te and as mentioned hed completely lost the locker room. This year the team seem behind him and the style of play is ininfinitley better. You keep cherry picking random stats or moments that fit the narrative while ignoring as early as our last prem season when we sacked 3 managers and still got relegated. but it could go any way. We could just as equally sack Parker, and still go down .

To being us back to this moment instead if randonlynco paring to the  past , weve been playing much better....as mentioned again , just see what comes in during the january break and then go from.

This is coming from someone who's been deeply critical of Parker at times, but to compare our chances with that under the likes of Sanchez is way off. Were a much better team than then, with a few additions in happy to give Scott the chance to push on.

we are a much better team but worse off now than we were under sanchez at the same point. we might look better and be harder to beat, but as it stands, sanchez team was more affective than this one

Yes...but different circumstances all together which is why comparing to random stats doesnt tell the full picture and isnt particularly useful...wether we were closer in points to safety is only one element....

The issue for Sanchez was having also only got 2 wins that season by December....we were deteriorating fast and on a strongly downward trend. Sanchez was fired off the back of a string of losses (think it was like 4 in 5 or something like that if I recall) and it was clear to say we weren't showing any signs of improving under him. Plus the football was dire.

This season having started shakily, we replaced 9 of the 11 starters and since then have seen an upward trend that has led us to the point where we just went on an unbeaten run in 5 or 6 games and against some very good clubs. This has led many of us to the point where the general feeling is that with a couple of striking options there is plenty to suggest we are capable of turning some of our draws into wins...

It may not materialise of course but the trend is that we have improved from a bad start with new additions, to the point where everyone in the league has noticed our vast improvements... that makes dumping the manager out at a time when we could well bring in a striker or 2 to really ramp things up, inadvisable....

Forget getting caught up in numbers...we could equally fish out various cherry picked examples that work the other way. But were better off looking objectively at what we are seeing right now and making judgments based on that.

Anyway....if you disagree with that so be it I guess. Again...wasnt a Parker fan last year but there is a reason every friend of mine who supports other clubs in the league that were ripping me early in the season, have all changed their tune and think well stay up. They're seeing what most of us are seeing.

0 wins in 7 is what I see right now, with barely a goal scored and a gap opening up between us and safety.

[RufusBrevettatemyhamster]

 :hook:

[jayffc]

Yes...but put simply...we didnt have 2 games in hand on one of those teams above us. If youd compared us after 17 games whilst Brighton had also only played 17, youd find us 2 points off safety given they wouldnt have played their last 2.

Just overall better to look objectively at how were shaping up, and what we look capable of doing now we have a considerably stronger defence and are currently looking to add some more firepower.

As stated ...under Roy Hodgson we were all but relegated with just a few games to play its foolish to get drawn into all this with over half a season to play. Let's just see where we are once the window closes and hope we have some capable reinforcements

so let me ask you this, do you think we would have stayed up if we never sacked sanchez and didnt appoint hodgson

What a bizarre diversion , the Hodgson point was literslly just to say were not cut adrift completely and anything is possible... but comparison is at least relevant because Hodgson built our team around being better organised defensively and harder to beat, then later on managed to get us winning.

Under Sanchez the football was dire (many referred to it as long ball s***te and as mentioned hed completely lost the locker room. This year the team seem behind him and the style of play is ininfinitley better. You keep cherry picking random stats or moments that fit the narrative while ignoring as early as our last prem season when we sacked 3 managers and still got relegated. but it could go any way. We could just as equally sack Parker, and still go down .

To being us back to this moment instead if randonlynco paring to the  past , weve been playing much better....as mentioned again , just see what comes in during the january break and then go from.

This is coming from someone who's been deeply critical of Parker at times, but to compare our chances with that under the likes of Sanchez is way off. Were a much better team than then, with a few additions in happy to give Scott the chance to push on.

we are a much better team but worse off now than we were under sanchez at the same point. we might look better and be harder to beat, but as it stands, sanchez team was more affective than this one

Yes...but different circumstances all together which is why comparing to random stats doesnt tell the full picture and isnt particularly useful...wether we were closer in points to safety is only one element....

The issue for Sanchez was having also only got 2 wins that season by December....we were deteriorating fast and on a strongly downward trend. Sanchez was fired off the back of a string of losses (think it was like 4 in 5 or something like that if I recall) and it was clear to say we weren't showing any signs of improving under him. Plus the football was dire.

This season having started shakily, we replaced 9 of the 11 starters and since then have seen an upward trend that has led us to the point where we just went on an unbeaten run in 5 or 6 games and against some very good clubs. This has led many of us to the point where the general feeling is that with a couple of striking options there is plenty to suggest we are capable of turning some of our draws into wins...

It may not materialise of course but the trend is that we have improved from a bad start with new additions, to the point where everyone in the league has noticed our vast improvements... that makes dumping the manager out at a time when we could well bring in a striker or 2 to really ramp things up, inadvisable....

Forget getting caught up in numbers...we could equally fish out various cherry picked examples that work the other way. But were better off looking objectively at what we are seeing right now and making judgments based on that.

Anyway....if you disagree with that so be it I guess. Again...wasnt a Parker fan last year but there is a reason every friend of mine who supports other clubs in the league that were ripping me early in the season, have all changed their tune and think well stay up. They're seeing what most of us are seeing.

0 wins in 7 is what I see right now, with barely a goal scored and a gap opening up between us and safety.

we did win in the cup in the last 7.
But yes, as far as the premier league is concerned, I understand it's 5points from 7 games that include playing Man City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. Not ideal stats (though notice your decision to look at it from a half full angle "0 wins" rather than 5 draws. Also importantly notice you didn't choose the same sample of 5 in 6 game losing streak that brought Sanchez to being fired. you went for 7 games as it helped with the narrative, whilst stopping short of 8 - because that would have had to include the win against Leicester, this is the cherry-picking I'm referring to being unhelpful and I wish we'd drop it as its becoming a distraction more than anything)

The point people are making is that the general consensus is that we are improving (ask any of the pundits and experts as well as notice how the talk around us online has changed)and the missing ingredient is that we need a consistent finisher/more attacking options, and we are in the middle of a transfer window.

I.E there is still reason to believe = massive defensive improvement made + new striking options better than what we have = better results. Last time in the premier league we felt we had a decent team on paper, and we changed manager 3 times - only to find out, maybe the problem wasn't the managers - considering we replaced Slav with the vastly experienced Ranieri, only to find that didn't work either. No one is saying it's impossible we could sack Parker and see a sudden upturn in results, but why disrupt a clearly improving team just as it appears likely we're about to add the pieces most of us suspect are all that's missing.

Parker has proven given the right defenders he can improve that area no end, so the is a reasonable reason to suggest he may be able to do the same if he gets better striking options. Not guaranteed of course, but had we looked like we had under Sanchez or Ranieri I wouldn't be defending him or the team

[fulhamben]

Yes...but put simply...we didnt have 2 games in hand on one of those teams above us. If youd compared us after 17 games whilst Brighton had also only played 17, youd find us 2 points off safety given they wouldnt have played their last 2.

Just overall better to look objectively at how were shaping up, and what we look capable of doing now we have a considerably stronger defence and are currently looking to add some more firepower.

As stated ...under Roy Hodgson we were all but relegated with just a few games to play its foolish to get drawn into all this with over half a season to play. Let's just see where we are once the window closes and hope we have some capable reinforcements

so let me ask you this, do you think we would have stayed up if we never sacked sanchez and didnt appoint hodgson

What a bizarre diversion , the Hodgson point was literslly just to say were not cut adrift completely and anything is possible... but comparison is at least relevant because Hodgson built our team around being better organised defensively and harder to beat, then later on managed to get us winning.

Under Sanchez the football was dire (many referred to it as long ball s***te and as mentioned hed completely lost the locker room. This year the team seem behind him and the style of play is ininfinitley better. You keep cherry picking random stats or moments that fit the narrative while ignoring as early as our last prem season when we sacked 3 managers and still got relegated. but it could go any way. We could just as equally sack Parker, and still go down .

To being us back to this moment instead if randonlynco paring to the  past , weve been playing much better....as mentioned again , just see what comes in during the january break and then go from.

This is coming from someone who's been deeply critical of Parker at times, but to compare our chances with that under the likes of Sanchez is way off. Were a much better team than then, with a few additions in happy to give Scott the chance to push on.

we are a much better team but worse off now than we were under sanchez at the same point. we might look better and be harder to beat, but as it stands, sanchez team was more affective than this one

Yes...but different circumstances all together which is why comparing to random stats doesnt tell the full picture and isnt particularly useful...wether we were closer in points to safety is only one element....

The issue for Sanchez was having also only got 2 wins that season by December....we were deteriorating fast and on a strongly downward trend. Sanchez was fired off the back of a string of losses (think it was like 4 in 5 or something like that if I recall) and it was clear to say we weren't showing any signs of improving under him. Plus the football was dire.

This season having started shakily, we replaced 9 of the 11 starters and since then have seen an upward trend that has led us to the point where we just went on an unbeaten run in 5 or 6 games and against some very good clubs. This has led many of us to the point where the general feeling is that with a couple of striking options there is plenty to suggest we are capable of turning some of our draws into wins...

It may not materialise of course but the trend is that we have improved from a bad start with new additions, to the point where everyone in the league has noticed our vast improvements... that makes dumping the manager out at a time when we could well bring in a striker or 2 to really ramp things up, inadvisable....

Forget getting caught up in numbers...we could equally fish out various cherry picked examples that work the other way. But were better off looking objectively at what we are seeing right now and making judgments based on that.

Anyway....if you disagree with that so be it I guess. Again...wasnt a Parker fan last year but there is a reason every friend of mine who supports other clubs in the league that were ripping me early in the season, have all changed their tune and think well stay up. They're seeing what most of us are seeing.

0 wins in 7 is what I see right now, with barely a goal scored and a gap opening up between us and safety.

we did win in the cup in the last 7.
But yes, as far as the premier league is concerned, I understand it's 5points from 7 games that include playing Man City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. Not ideal stats (though notice your decision to look at it from a half full angle "0 wins" rather than 5 draws. Also importantly notice you didn't choose the same sample of 5 in 6 game losing streak that brought Sanchez to being fired. you went for 7 games as it helped with the narrative, whilst stopping short of 8 - because that would have had to include the win against Leicester, this is the cherry-picking I'm referring to being unhelpful and I wish we'd drop it as its becoming a distraction more than anything)

The point people are making is that the general consensus is that we are improving (ask any of the pundits and experts as well as notice how the talk around us online has changed)and the missing ingredient is that we need a consistent finisher/more attacking options, and we are in the middle of a transfer window.

I.E there is still reason to believe = massive defensive improvement made + new striking options better than what we have = better results. Last time in the premier league we felt we had a decent team on paper, and we changed manager 3 times - only to find out, maybe the problem wasn't the managers - considering we replaced Slav with the vastly experienced Ranieri, only to find that didn't work either. No one is saying it's impossible we could sack Parker and see a sudden upturn in results, but why disrupt a clearly improving team just as it appears likely we're about to add the pieces most of us suspect are all that's missing.

Parker has proven given the right defenders he can improve that area no end, so the is a reasonable reason to suggest he may be able to do the same if he gets better striking options. Not guaranteed of course, but had we looked like we had under Sanchez or Ranieri

yes it is only 5 points from 7 games, that's why we have slipped behind 17th place. Anything under a point a game is relegation form.  Parker has proven that given the right players he can improve the area no end? Well that's the problem isn't it. We might not get upgrades in our attack, and as you have rightly pointed out, Parker requires new better players to improve us as he has struggled since he has been here to improve what we already had.

[Logicalman]

OK, lets call this discussion a draw shall we (not that we haven't had a hatful of those recently) and stop bickering, as people are not going to change their (other others') minds and the discussion is getting both nit-picky and pointless (like one of our last 5 games) and finally just agree to disagree.

[jayffc]

Yes...but put simply...we didnt have 2 games in hand on one of those teams above us. If youd compared us after 17 games whilst Brighton had also only played 17, youd find us 2 points off safety given they wouldnt have played their last 2.

Just overall better to look objectively at how were shaping up, and what we look capable of doing now we have a considerably stronger defence and are currently looking to add some more firepower.

As stated ...under Roy Hodgson we were all but relegated with just a few games to play its foolish to get drawn into all this with over half a season to play. Let's just see where we are once the window closes and hope we have some capable reinforcements

so let me ask you this, do you think we would have stayed up if we never sacked sanchez and didnt appoint hodgson

What a bizarre diversion , the Hodgson point was literslly just to say were not cut adrift completely and anything is possible... but comparison is at least relevant because Hodgson built our team around being better organised defensively and harder to beat, then later on managed to get us winning.

Under Sanchez the football was dire (many referred to it as long ball s***te and as mentioned hed completely lost the locker room. This year the team seem behind him and the style of play is ininfinitley better. You keep cherry picking random stats or moments that fit the narrative while ignoring as early as our last prem season when we sacked 3 managers and still got relegated. but it could go any way. We could just as equally sack Parker, and still go down .

To being us back to this moment instead if randonlynco paring to the  past , weve been playing much better....as mentioned again , just see what comes in during the january break and then go from.

This is coming from someone who's been deeply critical of Parker at times, but to compare our chances with that under the likes of Sanchez is way off. Were a much better team than then, with a few additions in happy to give Scott the chance to push on.

we are a much better team but worse off now than we were under sanchez at the same point. we might look better and be harder to beat, but as it stands, sanchez team was more affective than this one

Yes...but different circumstances all together which is why comparing to random stats doesnt tell the full picture and isnt particularly useful...wether we were closer in points to safety is only one element....

The issue for Sanchez was having also only got 2 wins that season by December....we were deteriorating fast and on a strongly downward trend. Sanchez was fired off the back of a string of losses (think it was like 4 in 5 or something like that if I recall) and it was clear to say we weren't showing any signs of improving under him. Plus the football was dire.

This season having started shakily, we replaced 9 of the 11 starters and since then have seen an upward trend that has led us to the point where we just went on an unbeaten run in 5 or 6 games and against some very good clubs. This has led many of us to the point where the general feeling is that with a couple of striking options there is plenty to suggest we are capable of turning some of our draws into wins...

It may not materialise of course but the trend is that we have improved from a bad start with new additions, to the point where everyone in the league has noticed our vast improvements... that makes dumping the manager out at a time when we could well bring in a striker or 2 to really ramp things up, inadvisable....

Forget getting caught up in numbers...we could equally fish out various cherry picked examples that work the other way. But were better off looking objectively at what we are seeing right now and making judgments based on that.

Anyway....if you disagree with that so be it I guess. Again...wasnt a Parker fan last year but there is a reason every friend of mine who supports other clubs in the league that were ripping me early in the season, have all changed their tune and think well stay up. They're seeing what most of us are seeing.

0 wins in 7 is what I see right now, with barely a goal scored and a gap opening up between us and safety.

we did win in the cup in the last 7.
But yes, as far as the premier league is concerned, I understand it's 5points from 7 games that include playing Man City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. Not ideal stats (though notice your decision to look at it from a half full angle "0 wins" rather than 5 draws. Also importantly notice you didn't choose the same sample of 5 in 6 game losing streak that brought Sanchez to being fired. you went for 7 games as it helped with the narrative, whilst stopping short of 8 - because that would have had to include the win against Leicester, this is the cherry-picking I'm referring to being unhelpful and I wish we'd drop it as its becoming a distraction more than anything)

The point people are making is that the general consensus is that we are improving (ask any of the pundits and experts as well as notice how the talk around us online has changed)and the missing ingredient is that we need a consistent finisher/more attacking options, and we are in the middle of a transfer window.

I.E there is still reason to believe = massive defensive improvement made + new striking options better than what we have = better results. Last time in the premier league we felt we had a decent team on paper, and we changed manager 3 times - only to find out, maybe the problem wasn't the managers - considering we replaced Slav with the vastly experienced Ranieri, only to find that didn't work either. No one is saying it's impossible we could sack Parker and see a sudden upturn in results, but why disrupt a clearly improving team just as it appears likely we're about to add the pieces most of us suspect are all that's missing.

Parker has proven given the right defenders he can improve that area no end, so the is a reasonable reason to suggest he may be able to do the same if he gets better striking options. Not guaranteed of course, but had we looked like we had under Sanchez or Ranieri

yes it is only 5 points from 7 games, that's why we have slipped behind 17th place. Anything under a point a game is relegation form.  Parker has proven that given the right players he can improve the area no end? Well that's the problem isn't it. We might not get upgrades in our attack, and as you have rightly pointed out, Parker requires new better players to improve us as he has struggled since he has been here to improve what we already had.

Alright man, I understand what you are saying, I just disagree with it. No point dragging this out anymore, most people it seems, on here and in the media, including those who weren't too hot on Parker last year and early this year (myself included) think he has made pretty huge improvements this year with what we now have in place - having completed the summer window. The difference from the first 4 games- to the rest of the season, is a pretty obvious testament to that. It's led many of us to the opinion that maybe Parker isn't the main problem at this moment at this point. It appears you don't agree and you have no interest in changing that perspective.

I believe strongly that we will bring in an alternative attacking option, Scott has stated that's what he feels he needs publically, and I think any new manager coming in would say exactly the same. I expect the club can see that and will be working on it.

You are not so sure we'll bring anyone in and so are looking ahead to make the chop. Go ahead.... If we sign a striker by the end of Jan and start to win games and stay up, I hope you'll be ready and willing to accept you were wrong on this.

If we get a good striking option or 2 in and we still are failing to score goals and get wins, then I have no problem in facing the reality that given a complete set of tools, Scott failed to be successful and failed to implement those tools properly.

If we fail to sign any strikers then I'll be saying Tony has made a big mistake aswell.

Either way I'll be trying to make a reasonable assessment of what is going on based on consideration of the nuances of each scenario in the moment. I am always willing to have my mind changed if things turn out differently to how I'd originally predicted, and this season will be no different.