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The Official Silly Season Summer Transfer Thread 2021/22

Started by Friendsoffulham, May 21, 2021, 03:23:46 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Whitestone

Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 03:37:04 PM
Surely the last thing we need is a CB. I mean of course there is a chance that Hector, Tosin, Mawson, Kongolo, Ream, Odoi and MLM will all be injured at the same time (for Kongolo and Mawson it's guaranteed) but is there any other position where we're going to have 7 levels of backup?

Tosin, Kongolo and Mawson are the only decent centre backs  we have and as you say Kongolo and Mawson can't be relied on so on that basis we need a partner for Tosin. Just the thought of seeing Ream, Odoi and Le Marchand as anything more than back up would be concerning. I hope that Odoi and Le Marchand are able to find other clubs in the window.

Statto

Quote from: Whitestone on June 16, 2021, 05:05:55 PM
Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 03:37:04 PM
Surely the last thing we need is a CB. I mean of course there is a chance that Hector, Tosin, Mawson, Kongolo, Ream, Odoi and MLM will all be injured at the same time (for Kongolo and Mawson it's guaranteed) but is there any other position where we're going to have 7 levels of backup?

Tosin, Kongolo and Mawson are the only decent centre backs  we have and as you say Kongolo and Mawson can't be relied on so on that basis we need a partner for Tosin. Just the thought of seeing Ream, Odoi and Le Marchand as anything more than back up would be concerning. I hope that Odoi and Le Marchand are able to find other clubs in the window.

My word. Arguably our best CB Hector not even mentioned because he fell out of favour with Parker. May as well presume Mitro won't be playing next year either then. And Kongolo who has two false hips and has played about 30 seconds of football in the last 12 years gets a mention.


JimOG

Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on June 16, 2021, 05:05:55 PM
Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 03:37:04 PM
Surely the last thing we need is a CB. I mean of course there is a chance that Hector, Tosin, Mawson, Kongolo, Ream, Odoi and MLM will all be injured at the same time (for Kongolo and Mawson it's guaranteed) but is there any other position where we're going to have 7 levels of backup?

Tosin, Kongolo and Mawson are the only decent centre backs  we have and as you say Kongolo and Mawson can't be relied on so on that basis we need a partner for Tosin. Just the thought of seeing Ream, Odoi and Le Marchand as anything more than back up would be concerning. I hope that Odoi and Le Marchand are able to find other clubs in the window.

My word. Arguably our best CB Hector not even mentioned because he fell out of favour with Parker. May as well presume Mitro won't be playing next year either then. And Kongolo who has two false hips and has played about 30 seconds of football in the last 12 years gets a mention.

Statto I don't know that you can blame SP for Hector's strange loss of form. He was outstanding Jan-March Lockdown and then he seemed a completely different player, nervous, indecisive . For me after watching football for 60 years I can't explain it.


filham

In view of his two recent performances in premier league matches I would say Ream may well have another good championship season in him. Sorting out the four players to be our two centre backs for next season is a priority for the new manager.

Statto

Let's not rewrite history Jim. Hector went from looking PL quality to somewhat average Championship quality but was still part of a solid defence in the run-in and play offs despite his partner being Tim Traffic Cone Ream. He looked totally overwhelmed in those first few PL games but so did everyone. Tosin followed a similar trajectory - started off looking PL quality, looked out of his depth second half of the season, and I expect that if his next match was home to Arsenal with Ream and Odoi alongside him he'd complete the fall from grace to basket case. The lesson is surely to consider players' multi-year track records rather than reacting to the short-term highs and lows. As to who's to blame for the lows, well there can be all sorts of reasons but the coach's job is motivation so that's the first place I'd look.

colinwhite

Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 05:38:43 PM
Let's not rewrite history Jim. Hector went from looking PL quality to somewhat average Championship quality but was still part of a solid defence in the run-in and play offs despite his partner being Tim Traffic Cone Ream. He looked totally overwhelmed in those first few PL games but so did everyone. Tosin followed a similar trajectory - started off looking PL quality, looked out of his depth second half of the season, and I expect that if his next match was home to Arsenal with Ream and Odoi alongside him he'd complete the fall from grace to basket case. The lesson is surely to consider players' multi-year track records rather than reacting to the short-term highs and lows. As to who's to blame for the lows, well there can be all sorts of reasons but the coach's job is motivation so that's the first place I'd look.

One thing parker did get right was motivating the team. slag him off ,but not for that


JimOG

Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 05:38:43 PM
Let's not rewrite history Jim. Hector went from looking PL quality to somewhat average Championship quality but was still part of a solid defence in the run-in and play offs despite his partner being Tim Traffic Cone Ream. He looked totally overwhelmed in those first few PL games but so did everyone. Tosin followed a similar trajectory - started off looking PL quality, looked out of his depth second half of the season, and I expect that if his next match was home to Arsenal with Ream and Odoi alongside him he'd complete the fall from grace to basket case. The lesson is surely to consider players' multi-year track records rather than reacting to the short-term highs and lows. As to who's to blame for the lows, well there can be all sorts of reasons but the coach's job is motivation so that's the first place I'd look.

That's my point Statto your version is inaccurate in my opinion. I remembered a number of us writing on message boards asking what had happened to Hector in the lockdown (just like Mitro came back in different shape). Hector was a nervous wreck. One regular contributor wondered whether having his first child might have been the cause although that left most of us scratching our heads. Whatever Parker has to answer for it's not this

Statto

Quote from: JimOG on June 16, 2021, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 05:38:43 PM
Let's not rewrite history Jim. Hector went from looking PL quality to somewhat average Championship quality but was still part of a solid defence in the run-in and play offs despite his partner being Tim Traffic Cone Ream. He looked totally overwhelmed in those first few PL games but so did everyone. Tosin followed a similar trajectory - started off looking PL quality, looked out of his depth second half of the season, and I expect that if his next match was home to Arsenal with Ream and Odoi alongside him he'd complete the fall from grace to basket case. The lesson is surely to consider players' multi-year track records rather than reacting to the short-term highs and lows. As to who's to blame for the lows, well there can be all sorts of reasons but the coach's job is motivation so that's the first place I'd look.

That's my point Statto your version is inaccurate in my opinion. I remembered a number of us writing on message boards asking what had happened to Hector in the lockdown (just like Mitro came back in different shape). Hector was a nervous wreck. One regular contributor wondered whether having his first child might have been the cause although that left most of us scratching our heads. Whatever Parker has to answer for it's not this

Not really disagreeing with you Jim so not sure what the argument is. I don't dispute that he was poor - my point is just that every player has been poor at some point (Mitrovic best recent example) and it makes no sense to write them off because of it. As to whether Parker is to blame, that's pure speculation so your guess might be different to mine but that's all it is, a guess.

@colinwhite you know we normally agree but if you think that team was motivated when it got 2 points from 10 games at the most important time of the season, sorry but you need your head examined. I used to buy into the Parker rhetoric and believe he was a good motivator but seeing those players mentally capitulate and go from favourites to finish above Newcastle to finishing 17 (seventeen!!) pts below them showed Parker is most definitely not a good motivator.

RaySmith

2 from 10 points, but should have at least 4, and possibly 6 - with the Man U goal in the 1-1 draw blatantly offside, and the Arsenal equaliser  at their place controversial to say the  least.

Agree that Hector's  falling apart in the Prem, seemed inexplicable, and psychologically related, and likely  to do with issues outside the game, though his lack of confidence v Prem attackers possibly hints at why he hasn't made the top grade, when he'd looked so accomplished for us in the Champ.

And wasn't his form in the Champ. to do with Parker's motivationally skills, if Parker is held responsible for not motivating him in the Prem?

Though I don't believe that these highly paid elite players, contending for such high stakes, who've made it to this level against  great competition, should need much outer motivation.

But Parker always expressed confidence in the the team, and praised them, and seemed a very  good leader and motivator, who was much liked and respected by  the players.


JimOG

Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 06:20:28 PM
Quote from: JimOG on June 16, 2021, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: Statto on June 16, 2021, 05:38:43 PM
Let's not rewrite history Jim. Hector went from looking PL quality to somewhat average Championship quality but was still part of a solid defence in the run-in and play offs despite his partner being Tim Traffic Cone Ream. He looked totally overwhelmed in those first few PL games but so did everyone. Tosin followed a similar trajectory - started off looking PL quality, looked out of his depth second half of the season, and I expect that if his next match was home to Arsenal with Ream and Odoi alongside him he'd complete the fall from grace to basket case. The lesson is surely to consider players' multi-year track records rather than reacting to the short-term highs and lows. As to who's to blame for the lows, well there can be all sorts of reasons but the coach's job is motivation so that's the first place I'd look.

That's my point Statto your version is inaccurate in my opinion. I remembered a number of us writing on message boards asking what had happened to Hector in the lockdown (just like Mitro came back in different shape). Hector was a nervous wreck. One regular contributor wondered whether having his first child might have been the cause although that left most of us scratching our heads. Whatever Parker has to answer for it's not this

Not really disagreeing with you Jim so not sure what the argument is. I don't dispute that he was poor - my point is just that every player has been poor at some point (Mitrovic best recent example) and it makes no sense to write them off because of it. As to whether Parker is to blame, that's pure speculation so your guess might be different to mine but that's all it is, a guess.

@colinwhite you know we normally agree but if you think that team was motivated when it got 2 points from 10 games at the most important time of the season, sorry but you need your head examined. I used to buy into the Parker rhetoric and believe he was a good motivator but seeing those players mentally capitulate and go from favourites to finish above Newcastle to finishing 17 (seventeen!!) pts below them showed Parker is most definitely not a good motivator.

Statto I think it's more optimist v pessimist. I see your argument & by season end Mitro was flying - hence making that decision by SP really strange in the light of our need for a natural striker. And if you can look in your crystal ball & tell me you see good Hector - Hector Mark 1 who appeared in Jan 2020 reappearing I'll be first to buy you a drink. My fear is that Hector Mark 2 , the post lockdown version, is what we've got. I watched him closely v Brentford in the League Cup (?) where he avoided aerial challenges, and Burnley in the FA Cup where he was really shocking. If we can see the Hector of last January 12 months return nobody would be happier than me. He, Tosin, Kongolo with Ream (it's a long season) would be the best central defence in the Championship. As you say all players go through a bad spell...

We Are Premier League

Would expect to see us linked with Ayew, Grimes and Hourihane if we get cooper to replace SP...all decent signings imo

Barrett487



WolverineFFC

Quote from: Bronaldinho on June 16, 2021, 09:47:53 AM
Quote from: Friendsoffulham on June 16, 2021, 09:04:52 AM



Can imagine this happening if Tosin goes early.

Followed CCV since he was a youth player. Always been a fan of him. One of those understated but effective CB's. If Tosin is moving on, would be happy to see him brought in to partner with Hector or Kongolo.

love4ffc

A quick note on Hector, IMHO he is a squad player for the Championship level.  He had a short decent period there but then showed his true colors in my eyes at being a red card waiting to happen.  Just for context, I have been watching him in the CONCACAF and he really hasn't shown anything special that would make me think that he should be a starter for next season.  He recently played a holding defending midfielder for Jamaica and again several times looked like he was going to get a red card. 

Fulham need a better option IMO.  Let the stoning begin  086.gif
Anyone can blend into the crowd.  How will you standout when it counts?

The Rational Fan

#214
Quote from: Arthur on June 12, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 11, 2021, 11:26:43 PM
Very good analysis. I trust statistics a lot and the statistics say that Tosin is a "top centre-back when alongside Anderson", but before that time he was a "decent centre-back comparable to Hector", only much younger so better for the long-term. The statistics could a) indicate Anderson is the difference,  b) indicate Tosin is improving or c) the statistic could be misleading. I suspect a little truth with all three, but the most important of the three was Anderson improving Tosins statistics.

I'm not aware of any of the statistics connected to Tosin or Andersen, but in saying 'Andersen is the difference' (in the case of Tosin's improvement), I wonder whether Andersen's statistics also improved. And if they did, does this not indicate that both players benefited from the partnership, not just Tosin? In which case, does this not raise the possibility that a centre-back pairing of Hector and Tosin could, likewise, be beneficial to both players' performance levels? May I also ask, TRF, why you suspect Tosin's statistics may be misleading?

The reason that I suspect Tosin's statistics are misleadingly high is twofold.
Firstly, Tosin who scored statistics went from 6.99 in the championship to 6.73 in the premier league (equal to about 7.13 in the championship), which is a fairly significant rise in a season.
Secondly, Joachim Andersen who scored a rating of 6.78 seems quite low for two reasons as it is almost identical to Tosin and is lower than some of his previous seasons at Sampdoria (yet he is suppose to have played better).

I believe Joachim Andersen who scored performance this season should be around +0.1 higher (at 6.88 placings him as the 14th best center back in the premier league) and Tosin's who scored rating this season should be potential 0.1 lower (at 6.63 placing him around the level of Eric Dyer as CB), which would translate to about 7.03 who scored performance in the championship, which is about the improvement expected from a player his age.

Assuming Tosin continues improving at that rate, he should be the best central defender in the championship but not by much and that seems about correct to me. I think his statistics are misleading as he is closer to Hector before lockdown in quality (although he is marginally better than Hector before lockdown) than he is to the far superior Anderson.


vancouver

Marcondes is available on a free transfer. Id imagine he has some prem interest, and i realize we had a tiff with him over his comments before our final win.

roberto w6

Quote from: vancouver on June 24, 2021, 10:42:51 PM
Marcondes is available on a free transfer. Id imagine he has some prem interest, and i realize we had a tiff with him over his comments before our final win.

I'd take a punt on him. Always looked good in the (admittedly few) games I've seen him in. You'd assume he would welcome a move without the upheaval of moving house etc unless he intends going back to Denmark or a big PL team comes in for him

Whitestone

There is no chance of a Premier League team signing Marcondes. The fact that Brentford don't want him should be sufficient to recognise that. He wasn't a regular starter at Brentford either. It would be a backwards step if we start to sign players of his calibre.


Marcel_Gecov

Quote from: roberto w6 on June 25, 2021, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: vancouver on June 24, 2021, 10:42:51 PM
Marcondes is available on a free transfer. Id imagine he has some prem interest, and i realize we had a tiff with him over his comments before our final win.

I'd take a punt on him. Always looked good in the (admittedly few) games I've seen him in. You'd assume he would welcome a move without the upheaval of moving house etc unless he intends going back to Denmark or a big PL team comes in for him

Hate the phrase 'take a punt'.

Our transfers need to be based on a clear strategy. And whats the point of filling the bench with players in their mid 2os when you can promote youth or buy a start and relegate a current player to the subs...

junior white

Greek club Aris Salonika have tabled a bid worth over £4,000,000 for Abou Kamala according to Sky Sports