Silva is the current worst member of the squad

[Lyle from Hangeland]

Also "support players" already know they are "support players". They especially know this when a first choice player is picked to play over them when the first choice player is eligible and fit to play again.

[ALG01]

Also "support players" already know they are "support players". They especially know this when a first choice player is picked to play over them when the first choice player is eligible and fit to play again.

#That is not a good way to manage people, even 'support players.'
if they do well they need to be given a chance not dropped otherwise they become demoralised and when needed again will not bother because what then is the point.

i really did not think this basic day 1 firs rule of simple management woiuld be quite so difficult for some people to get their heads around. If they are hopeless then that is one thing nbut when they perfom it is quoite another and hector perfromed well enough to keep his place AND we were then winning in style.

[Arthur]

So what you appear to be saying is that when Silva brings a player you like back into the side, that's okay, but when he restores someone you don't fancy to the starting XI, that's bad man-management.

Of course performance is a matter of opinion and I absolutely did not say if he brings back a player I like that is OK. In fact it is the absolutel opposite of what i have said. In fact tosin is a case in point. I like him, he is better than hector and would notmally start first BUT hector was in the team because tosin was sent off, he took his chance and the team was playing well and winning, hector was IMO doing OK, well enough not to merit being dropped at that point..and in that case Tosin just had to wait for his chance to get back in the side.

Thank you for your reply.

I am glad you like Tosin, per se. My remark, however, is referring to your not liking that he was brought back into the starting XI at Hector's expense. (But that was obvious to you already, I'm sure.) As an opinion, to decry Tosin's return is fine, but it's not evidence of his being 'untouchable'.

There is no weakness or inconsistency in my argument. What silva did was poor man mangement because he told the support players they are just that and no matter how good they may perform it will never be good enough and they will never have a chance of a proper run in the team.

As you have no idea what Silva has actually said to the players, I assume you mean you think his restoring Tosin to the side has conveyed this message. Yet again, however, it's only your opinion this was the wrong decision.

Before his sending off, Tosin was also playing well in a winning team. Of Hector's three matches, one was against a team reduced to ten men for an hour and the others were against the two teams with the worst records in the Championship - Barnsley and Peterborough. If Silva took into consideration that Tosin is, as you say, better than Hector, our manager may have decided Hector's 'okay' performances against weak opponents were not enough to merit keeping Tosin from returning. Nothing unreasonable in such thinking, even if one thinks differently. To be of the opinion this was poor management is your prerogative, but is it's not evidence of Silva having told the 'support' players (whomever they are) that 'no matter how good they perform, it will never be good enough'.


In the friendliest way possible, may I suggest that, rather than think I am finding it 'so difficult to get my head around' what Silva is not doing right (for I am one of those at whom your remark is aimed), you might care to take a moment to consider that Silva may not be thinking in exactly the way you think he is.

[ALG01]

So what you appear to be saying is that when Silva brings a player you like back into the side, that's okay, but when he restores someone you don't fancy to the starting XI, that's bad man-management.

Of course performance is a matter of opinion and I absolutely did not say if he brings back a player I like that is OK. In fact it is the absolutel opposite of what i have said. In fact tosin is a case in point. I like him, he is better than hector and would notmally start first BUT hector was in the team because tosin was sent off, he took his chance and the team was playing well and winning, hector was IMO doing OK, well enough not to merit being dropped at that point..and in that case Tosin just had to wait for his chance to get back in the side.

Thank you for your reply.

I am glad you like Tosin, per se. My remark, however, is referring to your not liking that he was brought back into the starting XI at Hector's expense. (But that was obvious to you already, I'm sure.) As an opinion, to decry Tosin's return is fine, but it's not evidence of his being 'untouchable'.

There is no weakness or inconsistency in my argument. What silva did was poor man mangement because he told the support players they are just that and no matter how good they may perform it will never be good enough and they will never have a chance of a proper run in the team.

As you have no idea what Silva has actually said to the players, I assume you mean you think his restoring Tosin to the side has conveyed this message. Yet again, however, it's only your opinion this was the wrong decision.

Before his sending off, Tosin was also playing well in a winning team. Of Hector's three matches, one was against a team reduced to ten men for an hour and the others were against the two teams with the worst records in the Championship - Barnsley and Peterborough. If Silva took into consideration that Tosin is, as you say, better than Hector, our manager may have decided Hector's 'okay' performances against weak opponents were not enough to merit keeping Tosin from returning. Nothing unreasonable in such thinking, even if one thinks differently. To be of the opinion this was poor management is your prerogative, but is it's not evidence of Silva having told the 'support' players (whomever they are) that 'no matter how good they perform, it will never be good enough'.


In the friendliest way possible, may I suggest that, rather than think I am finding it 'so difficult to get my head around' what Silva is not doing right (for I am one of those at whom your remark is aimed), you might care to take a moment to consider that Silva may not be thinking in exactly the way you think he is.

Your kidding?
You are attempting to forensically disect my opinion and pick at each word.
Bringing tosin back was rank bad management, a first year management student wouldn't need to be taught that.

In afriendly way i think this discusion is now circular. So i wish you compliments of the season, look forward to disecting a fine victory in our next outing and see if there is a bit of something more positive for us to chew over.
:wine:

[@jolslover]

Nonsense OP, hitting a rough patch which happens to every team in this tough league but we will be back - our performances at the start of the season were the best I had seen from a Fulham team in a long while

[WolverineFFC]

Robinson and Tete had absolute shockers when we were in possession. But the bigger issue is it looked like Parkerball. Wingers isolated against two defenders, no movement at all, useless possession and then wasteful when we created one big chance. I'm really surprised Bryan wasn't brought on for Antonee to provide early service from the left.

I was thinking about the umbrella possession system we all criticized last season under Parker. Looked the same. There was no penetration, everyone was static, and almost nothing happened in the middle of the pitch separating Mitro and the CB's in possession. It was like there was no central midfield at all.

Complacency has set in. If I was Silva, half the starting 11 would be out for the next match. There has been 1 goal in open play over the last 5 matches which is pathetic for a team aspiring for promotion. The current attacking options absent Mitro have been given a fair shake and it is not good enough. Time to give others a chance. To me, Neeskens, Fabio, JMS, AR, and Tete hit the bench. BDR, Muniz, JB, TC, and Dennis come in. Let Harry Wilson know you expect better or he will be next off.

Silva's managerial chops are on trial now. This team needs a kick start. It is on him to get it going.

[ALG01]

Nonsense OP, hitting a rough patch which happens to every team in this tough league but we will be back - our performances at the start of the season were the best I had seen from a Fulham team in a long while

Well other than 'Nonsense OP' I agree with you. My post is an observation that says essentially we are rumbled and need to adapt our play smewhat. In combination a number of kkey players are off form. we are also playing the ball too slow, players hanging on to it too long and not using the simple pass and overlap that were all principle featiures of our brilliant start.

The holding of the ball too long and not hitting the runners early is clearly a managerial thing. The attempt to overload down the wings is down to the manager and his very poor decison to change a winning side as discussed is also his fault. He is a member of the squad and juyst as we are critical of players that are not at their best, we have to be critical of him.

To say my post was nonsense is clearly out of step with the majority on the MB judging by the number of similar threads and comments. The only major alternate views seem to have come from people that always disagreee with me as a matter of proinciple without actually addressing my points (One or two exceptions are excluded).

It's christmas and i forgive you... hope we can discuss the finer points of winning come boxing day!

[Terry Towling]

When Silva became our manager i checked into his previous club's forums and there was an opinion that he gets you so far and then the performace goes over acliff and he can't respond. I hope this isn't the case here as I really liked our style of play and our performances up until now.

[MartyFFC]

We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.

[WindyCity]

We have one way of playing and no matter what we stick to it.
Despite that i like silva, but will soon change my mind if he continues to sleepwalk.

I'm not ready to say Silva is the worst squad member, because I do like him, BUT, a good team (and manager) adapts and does not simply resort to the same old same old when the opponent is having success against. 

Poor shows v SHU were Robinson, Kebano, Carvalho (what's all the hype about?), Rodak (should have done better on goal scored), and general midfield play.  Might be time to make some changes with that depth everyone in this forum seems to think FFC has.  I wouldn't mind seeing some others get a start.  And I say that whilst I do like some of these players who have had poor shows recently.

[WindyCity]

We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.

Nice having some perspective, agreed, but I do think FFC has had more than just one poor show v SHU.  Have had big opportunity to put some space between top two and rest of the field.  Sadly let slip away.....

[davew]

We need to regroup with some new additions in January, the way things are going we might not even finish in the play offs. If we play 1 dimensional football (exciting as it has been most of the first half of the season), many more teams will stop us from winning, we need a Plan B and Plan C from our coach.

[MartyFFC]

We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.

Nice having some perspective, agreed, but I do think FFC has had more than just one poor show v SHU.  Have had big opportunity to put some space between top two and rest of the field.  Sadly let slip away.....

Yeah looking at the season as a whole, I'd say you could add Coventry and possibly Blackpool. Two or three poor performances out of 23 doesn't cause me to question Silva though

[Woolly Mammoth]

You may have a change of mind if you reconsider the slow build ups and pedestrian movement of the players as the other teams have sussed us out, and Silva does not have the ability to respond to counter. So Fulham who lacked urgency , creativity and leadership faltered against Sheffield despite sending cavalry on without any horses, and despite being 1 0 down for almost all the match had no kitchen sink to throw at a well organised defence who won their own personal battles, and watched in astonishment whilst Fulham wasted the best part of half an hour passing across their own penalty area, backwards sideways and clueless, and when we did cross the halfway line Fulham decided to pass back towards their own penalty area, no wonder we hardly had a shot on target.

[H4usuallysitting]

Historically we've usually been better in the second half of the season..... Yes, we couldn't break down Sheff Utd - but we only needed to take our one chance, and we didn't - I'm putting this down to a blip....true, we need to mix it up more, true, we shouldn't be afraid to drop player's - but most of us thought the starting 11, was our best 11.... I'm not overly concerned.... we'll still get promoted - onwards & upwars

[toshes mate]

I am unsure what the value of calling Silva the worst member of the squad is other than drawing attention to the thread.  For starters the claim is without proof, doesn't solve anything even if true, and produces no substantial evidence to back the claim up simply because, at this stage, there isn't any.   

Had Adarabioyo not been sent off then Hector would presumably have been, at best, on the bench.  A head coach cannot operate in isolation. S/he has their own team of assistants who are all free to vote with their feet.  The players conversely have freely signed contracts and get paid regardless.   If they want to play regularly then by quite an early age they will know how the system tends to work.   Hector is in competition for a place in the team and he will know exactly what is required to overtake the present occupant(s) of the position(s) he covets.

I don't know if there are problems at the Club which have arisen from the current poor run but my best bet is that it is the simple case of the honeymoon period being over and now the relationship between Silva and the Club will either prove itself to be good or not as the case may be.    All staff tend to go through this same period or phase of largely indeterminate length but there is nothing in management 101 that covers it.   However a book about randomness would tell you that any and all human beings find it a hell of subject to even begin to understand.

I wish you all a very happy Xmas.

[Somerset Fulham]

I don't want to risk getting into trouble for this but it does need to be said. A lot of threads are becoming nonsensical of late with the amount content that is being removed.

[Arthur]

Your kidding?
You are attempting to forensically disect my opinion and pick at each word.
Bringing tosin back was rank bad management, a first year management student wouldn't need to be taught that.

In afriendly way i think this discusion is now circular. So i wish you compliments of the season, look forward to disecting a fine victory in our next outing and see if there is a bit of something more positive for us to chew over.

I agree that our discussion of your opinion of Silva's management has run its course in this thread and I echo your hope for an upturn in form.

I shall, however, comment upon your incredulity that I should take your words to mean what they say. If I attempt to explain why I think your interpretation has not drawn a reasonable conclusion, why are you upset by the depth of my analysis? The time I spend is showing you the respect that wouldn't be evident if I were simply to post along the lines of 'You're talking rubbish again, ALGO'. (Earlier in this thread, you thanked the moderator who deleted such responses.)

You have no less opportunity to challenge my interpretations and the opinions I draw from them as I have yours. This is a debating forum and I try to debate with logical and valid arguments.

[ALG01]

I am unsure what the value of calling Silva the worst member of the squad is other than drawing attention to the thread.  For starters the claim is without proof, doesn't solve anything even if true, and produces no substantial evidence to back the claim up simply because, at this stage, there isn't any.   

Had Adarabioyo not been sent off then Hector would presumably have been, at best, on the bench.  A head coach cannot operate in isolation. S/he has their own team of assistants who are all free to vote with their feet.  The players conversely have freely signed contracts and get paid regardless.   If they want to play regularly then by quite an early age they will know how the system tends to work.   Hector is in competition for a place in the team and he will know exactly what is required to overtake the present occupant(s) of the position(s) he covets.

I don't know if there are problems at the Club which have arisen from the current poor run but my best bet is that it is the simple case of the honeymoon period being over and now the relationship between Silva and the Club will either prove itself to be good or not as the case may be.    All staff tend to go through this same period or phase of largely indeterminate length but there is nothing in management 101 that covers it.   However a book about randomness would tell you that any and all human beings find it a hell of subject to even begin to understand.

I wish you all a very happy Xmas.

thank you for your usual style of response and misquote and presumably intentional misreading/understanding of what i said. I intentionally said Silva was currently the worst perfomer despite me actully liking him. Current worst, not overall worst, as you suggest. he needs to doi much bettter, and he is surely capable of much better.

He has has demonstatably not adapted our tactics to accomdate the fact teams are now all setting up to stop up us. this was apparent in  very many recent games Luton and sheffield united being obvious examples when they both adopted the same approach to denying our wide men space, the key to all that has been good.

The issue about tosin's return is entirely to do with management of people and how it affects the whole group. Silva made a massive error of management judgement. Tosin IMO is the better player but that change then will have resonated through the squad. Hector was doing OK and we were playing well but he was instantly dropped. This is rank bad management for team spirit because you need the whole squad not just the first 11 or 12 and he slapped the rest of the squad in the face with that. It is basic stuff.

I wish you a happy christmas and hope on boxing day we can move on to discuss how we came to win so handsomely.  :wine:

[ALG01]

Your kidding?
You are attempting to forensically disect my opinion and pick at each word.
Bringing tosin back was rank bad management, a first year management student wouldn't need to be taught that.

In afriendly way i think this discusion is now circular. So i wish you compliments of the season, look forward to disecting a fine victory in our next outing and see if there is a bit of something more positive for us to chew over.

I agree that our discussion of your opinion of Silva's management has run its course in this thread and I echo your hope for an upturn in form.

I shall, however, comment upon your incredulity that I should take your words to mean what they say. If I attempt to explain why I think your interpretation has not drawn a reasonable conclusion, why are you upset by the depth of my analysis? The time I spend is showing you the respect that wouldn't be evident if I were simply to post along the lines of 'You're talking rubbish again, ALGO'. (Earlier in this thread, you thanked the moderator who deleted such responses.)

You have no less opportunity to challenge my interpretations and the opinions I draw from them as I have yours. This is a debating forum and I try to debate with logical and valid arguments.

I take you comments on board in the spirit they are offered. I am not sure with my poetic style it is  appropriate to attempt to disect my comments so forensoically. All I am saying is the manager should be doing better than this and I do think he is responsible in large measure for recent poor perfomances and bringing tosin back , whether he is the better player or not when he did was rank bad management.... but thta does not get it off my chest quite so well
we all want the same

have a brilliant christmas and I will look forward to further debate, I do enjoy it, honest.