Arbeloa

[C Block]

https://medium.com/@frankie.taylor/alvaro-arbeloa-an-introduction-a424ef9ab470

Good article

That was an excellent read, thanks for posting it, hopefully (though I doubt it) it can quell some of the negativity.

[Sting of the North]

I think he is a risk option and likely a bad mistake. He has no proper experience and I suspect this is a big step backwards.

If he does join, I hope my concerns prove to be unfounded.

But objectively this really is a crazy option to be considering.

Been coaching for several years, started out with youth football and steadily progressed to senior football after winning trophies at all levels. Not sure how it's objectively a crazy option as it feels like that's your subjective opinion

With all due respect, you are joking aren't you.

He has not managed a senior team except real where he failed, using the talent he had at his disposal as the benchmark. He is moving to new country to a team he knows nothing about.

Of course it's objective based on facts based on lack of experience and failing with the best players.

If you have a different opinion and think this is a brilliant unexpected choice that's up to you.

If it was objective, he couldn't have a different opinion... I don't think you understand the word...

[sarnian]

I think he is a risk option and likely a bad mistake. He has no proper experience and I suspect this is a big step backwards.

If he does join, I hope my concerns prove to be unfounded.

But objectively this really is a crazy option to be considering.

Been coaching for several years, started out with youth football and steadily progressed to senior football after winning trophies at all levels. Not sure how it's objectively a crazy option as it feels like that's your subjective opinion

With all due respect, you are joking aren't you.

He has not managed a senior team except real where he failed, using the talent he had at his disposal as the benchmark. He is moving to new country to a team he knows nothing about.

Of course it's objective based on facts based on lack of experience and failing with the best players.

If you have a different opinion and think this is a brilliant unexpected choice that's up to you.

His mandate when he took over at Real Madrid was ensure they secured second in the league which they did so where did he fail?  Anything else would have been just a bonus.

[v]

Glad to see we finally managed to get Rylan Clark over the line... 🛒

[Arthur]

With all due respect, you are joking aren't you.
He has not managed a senior team except real where he failed, using the talent he had at his disposal as the benchmark. He is moving to new country to a team he knows nothing about.
Of course it's objective based on facts based on lack of experience and failing with the best players.
If you have a different opinion and think this is a brilliant unexpected choice that's up to you.

If it was objective, he couldn't have a different opinion...

This, to me, is an instance of an objective opinion: Andrew has used facts to form an opinion but this doesn't necessarily make his opinion a fact.

Andrew has used the fact Arbeloa has little senior managerial experience, the fact he will be coaching in the P.L. for the first time, the fact he likely knows little about our squad, and the fact he failed (was sacked) by Real Madrid to form the opinion it would be a crazy appointment. But it is just that: an opinion.

Firstly, Arbeloa may have failed to achieve the results to satisfy Real Madrid's President - hence his sacking - but this isn't the same as saying he failed per se. Arbeloa won 18 out of his 28 games in charge of Real Madrid. I think it is entirely a matter of opinion as to whether this represents 'failure' - particularly so when put in the context of the player unrest that had precipitated Xabi Alonso's departure mid-way through last season.

Secondly, I think it highly debatable how much of a drawback Arbeloa's lack of knowledge of the Club and its players will be. How many weeks and how many training sessions will he require to assess the talent at his disposal, to assess the areas of the squad he wants to improve, and to implement his ideas? And how certain is it that another manager would make better first-hand assessments and implement sounder ideas on the basis of having already seen us play a number of times? Are these not questions to which it is exceptionally difficult - impossible, even - to determine a factual answer?

To my mind, therefore, Andrew's is an opinion that carries somewhat limited merit.

[SG]

Didn't he beat Man City in the CL. If he makes us competitive against them it would be a start instead of rolling over and having our tummy tickled almost every time

[Woolly Mammoth]

Why haven't we gone for Neil Warnock, he only lives in Cornwall  and it will save a lot of fannying around.
We could have done it weeks ago, and he would have been charming a pile of new players through the gates at Motspur Park by now.

[Sting of the North]

With all due respect, you are joking aren't you.
He has not managed a senior team except real where he failed, using the talent he had at his disposal as the benchmark. He is moving to new country to a team he knows nothing about.
Of course it's objective based on facts based on lack of experience and failing with the best players.
If you have a different opinion and think this is a brilliant unexpected choice that's up to you.

If it was objective, he couldn't have a different opinion...

This, to me, is an instance of an objective opinion: Andrew has used facts to form an opinion but this doesn't necessarily make his opinion a fact.

Andrew has used the fact Arbeloa has little senior managerial experience, the fact he will be coaching in the P.L. for the first time, the fact he likely knows little about our squad, and the fact he failed (was sacked) by Real Madrid to form the opinion it would be a crazy appointment. But it is just that: an opinion.

Firstly, Arbeloa may have failed to achieve the results to satisfy Real Madrid's President - hence his sacking - but this isn't the same as saying he failed per se. Arbeloa won 18 out of his 28 games in charge of Real Madrid. I think it is entirely a matter of opinion as to whether this represents 'failure' - particularly so when put in the context of the player unrest that had precipitated Xabi Alonso's departure mid-way through last season.

Secondly, I think it highly debatable how much of a drawback Arbeloa's lack of knowledge of the Club and its players will be. How many weeks and how many training sessions will he require to assess the talent at his disposal, to assess the areas of the squad he wants to improve, and to implement his ideas? And how certain is it that another manager would make better first-hand assessments and implement sounder ideas on the basis of having already seen us play a number of times? Are these not questions to which it is exceptionally difficult - impossible, even - to determine a factual answer?

To my mind, therefore, Andrew's is an opinion that carries somewhat limited merit.

To my mind, if one should entertain the idea of "objective opinions", this cannot simply be used for any opinion just because they have a couple of arguments (that may or may not be objective in themselves) in favour of said opinion. Such a term should be saved for opinions that are heavily grounded in facts and methodology. Mr Andrew was not even close to earning the term objective for his opinion.

In my (subjective) opinion.

I think I'll leave this sideways discussion with the above words. Feel free to disagree. 

[Neil D]

Why haven't we gone for Neil Warnock, he only lives in Cornwall  and it will save a lot of fannying around.
We could have done it weeks ago, and he would have been charming a pile of new players through the gates at Motspur Park by now.

Caretaker manager of Torquay is about the summit of his managerial capabilities.

[Volz]

With all due respect, you are joking aren't you.
He has not managed a senior team except real where he failed, using the talent he had at his disposal as the benchmark. He is moving to new country to a team he knows nothing about.
Of course it's objective based on facts based on lack of experience and failing with the best players.
If you have a different opinion and think this is a brilliant unexpected choice that's up to you.

If it was objective, he couldn't have a different opinion...

This, to me, is an instance of an objective opinion: Andrew has used facts to form an opinion but this doesn't necessarily make his opinion a fact.

Andrew has used the fact Arbeloa has little senior managerial experience, the fact he will be coaching in the P.L. for the first time, the fact he likely knows little about our squad, and the fact he failed (was sacked) by Real Madrid to form the opinion it would be a crazy appointment. But it is just that: an opinion.

Firstly, Arbeloa may have failed to achieve the results to satisfy Real Madrid's President - hence his sacking - but this isn't the same as saying he failed per se. Arbeloa won 18 out of his 28 games in charge of Real Madrid. I think it is entirely a matter of opinion as to whether this represents 'failure' - particularly so when put in the context of the player unrest that had precipitated Xabi Alonso's departure mid-way through last season.

Secondly, I think it highly debatable how much of a drawback Arbeloa's lack of knowledge of the Club and its players will be. How many weeks and how many training sessions will he require to assess the talent at his disposal, to assess the areas of the squad he wants to improve, and to implement his ideas? And how certain is it that another manager would make better first-hand assessments and implement sounder ideas on the basis of having already seen us play a number of times? Are these not questions to which it is exceptionally difficult - impossible, even - to determine a factual answer?

To my mind, therefore, Andrew's is an opinion that carries somewhat limited merit.

To my mind, if one should entertain the idea of "objective opinions", this cannot simply be used for any opinion just because they have a couple of arguments (that may or may not be objective in themselves) in favour of said opinion. Such a term should be saved for opinions that are heavily grounded in facts and methodology. Mr Andrew was not even close to earning the term objective for his opinion.

In my (subjective) opinion.

I think I'll leave this sideways discussion with the above words. Feel free to disagree. 

Any "opinion" originates, by its very nature, from a subject, hence it is formed and framed by the background, the  knowledge and the perspectives from said subject, regardless of it being attempted to or articulated as "objective".
Not even cold data or "facts" are truly "objective", as they can all be set in a context and tweaked or cherry picked to support whatever argument one has when presenting them in the first place.
Better to just acknowledge that we are all opinionated, and equally so, imo 

[AJW48361]

It's a Risky Appointment but I suppose any Appointment is Risky.I like the fact he played in the premier league at Liverpool and a little for West Ham he will have a fair idea what's required on and off the pitch.

[KentFulham]

I for one can't wait for him to sign, If he comes in shortly, and revamps the team by cutting the dross we carry, and bringing in some exciting new talent, I can see us pushing for Europe, and at the same time having extertaining football to watch. This season cant come quick enough!

[Oakeshott]

"This season cant come quick enough!"

Absolutely agree. If, of course, he signs.

[Thailand Mick]

His La Liga record was 13 wins, 2 draws, 4 defeats. Out of those 4 defeats 2 of them came immediately after each leg of the Champions league games against Benfica and 1 came immediately before the first leg of the champions league game against Bayern Munich. The other defeat was away to Barcelona. We have seen with the English clubs that they can struggle in games after European midweek games.

[Andrew]

I think he is a risk option and likely a bad mistake. He has no proper experience and I suspect this is a big step backwards.

If he does join, I hope my concerns prove to be unfounded.

But objectively this really is a crazy option to be considering.

Been coaching for several years, started out with youth football and steadily progressed to senior football after winning trophies at all levels. Not sure how it's objectively a crazy option as it feels like that's your subjective opinion

With all due respect, you are joking aren't you.

He has not managed a senior team except real where he failed, using the talent he had at his disposal as the benchmark. He is moving to new country to a team he knows nothing about.

Of course it's objective based on facts based on lack of experience and failing with the best players.

If you have a different opinion and think this is a brilliant unexpected choice that's up to you.

If it was objective, he couldn't have a different opinion... I don't think you understand the word...

The objective bit he has very limited experience and underachieved with his only senior appointment, which by all accounts saw him have a very fractious relationship with the squad. That is what makes this an objectively high risk option. It is how one objectively looks at a CV for any candidate for a job..... The subjective part would be if I weigh that against other factors and still feel he is a good fit. 

But his background/ lack of exerience at our level, makes him a high risk option. I do not think it is me that doesn't understand the word.

[Andrew]

With all due respect, you are joking aren't you.
He has not managed a senior team except real where he failed, using the talent he had at his disposal as the benchmark. He is moving to new country to a team he knows nothing about.
Of course it's objective based on facts based on lack of experience and failing with the best players.
If you have a different opinion and think this is a brilliant unexpected choice that's up to you.

If it was objective, he couldn't have a different opinion...

This, to me, is an instance of an objective opinion: Andrew has used facts to form an opinion but this doesn't necessarily make his opinion a fact.

Andrew has used the fact Arbeloa has little senior managerial experience, the fact he will be coaching in the P.L. for the first time, the fact he likely knows little about our squad, and the fact he failed (was sacked) by Real Madrid to form the opinion it would be a crazy appointment. But it is just that: an opinion.

Firstly, Arbeloa may have failed to achieve the results to satisfy Real Madrid's President - hence his sacking - but this isn't the same as saying he failed per se. Arbeloa won 18 out of his 28 games in charge of Real Madrid. I think it is entirely a matter of opinion as to whether this represents 'failure' - particularly so when put in the context of the player unrest that had precipitated Xabi Alonso's departure mid-way through last season.

Secondly, I think it highly debatable how much of a drawback Arbeloa's lack of knowledge of the Club and its players will be. How many weeks and how many training sessions will he require to assess the talent at his disposal, to assess the areas of the squad he wants to improve, and to implement his ideas? And how certain is it that another manager would make better first-hand assessments and implement sounder ideas on the basis of having already seen us play a number of times? Are these not questions to which it is exceptionally difficult - impossible, even - to determine a factual answer?

To my mind, therefore, Andrew's is an opinion that carries somewhat limited merit.

Arthur,
Thank you for a sensible answer and thank you for understanding what I actually said. The fact you do not agree with my opinion is another matter and we are all entitled to our own view.

What i said was that I consider this man to be a high risk option for the reasons I stated. Nobody has actually said he is a good choice or is a low risk option.

I am interested to learn that you think having no experience of managing in the UK let alone the Premiership or indeed been a manager anywhere for any reasonable length of time, and the only job he has had, he was sacked from, is 'of little merit.'  But that is your opinion and we shall just have to wait and see how it all pans out.

[demeant0r]

With all due respect, you are joking aren't you.
He has not managed a senior team except real where he failed, using the talent he had at his disposal as the benchmark. He is moving to new country to a team he knows nothing about.
Of course it's objective based on facts based on lack of experience and failing with the best players.
If you have a different opinion and think this is a brilliant unexpected choice that's up to you.

If it was objective, he couldn't have a different opinion...

This, to me, is an instance of an objective opinion: Andrew has used facts to form an opinion but this doesn't necessarily make his opinion a fact.

Andrew has used the fact Arbeloa has little senior managerial experience, the fact he will be coaching in the P.L. for the first time, the fact he likely knows little about our squad, and the fact he failed (was sacked) by Real Madrid to form the opinion it would be a crazy appointment. But it is just that: an opinion.

Firstly, Arbeloa may have failed to achieve the results to satisfy Real Madrid's President - hence his sacking - but this isn't the same as saying he failed per se. Arbeloa won 18 out of his 28 games in charge of Real Madrid. I think it is entirely a matter of opinion as to whether this represents 'failure' - particularly so when put in the context of the player unrest that had precipitated Xabi Alonso's departure mid-way through last season.

Secondly, I think it highly debatable how much of a drawback Arbeloa's lack of knowledge of the Club and its players will be. How many weeks and how many training sessions will he require to assess the talent at his disposal, to assess the areas of the squad he wants to improve, and to implement his ideas? And how certain is it that another manager would make better first-hand assessments and implement sounder ideas on the basis of having already seen us play a number of times? Are these not questions to which it is exceptionally difficult - impossible, even - to determine a factual answer?

To my mind, therefore, Andrew's is an opinion that carries somewhat limited merit.

Arthur,
Thank you for a sensible answer and thank you for understanding what I actually said. The fact you do not agree with my opinion is another matter and we are all entitled to our own view.

What i said was that I consider this man to be a high risk option for the reasons I stated. Nobody has actually said he is a good choice or is a low risk option.

I am interested to learn that you think having no experience of managing in the UK let alone the Premiership or indeed been a manager anywhere for any reasonable length of time, and the only job he has had, he was sacked from, is 'of little merit.'  But that is your opinion and we shall just have to wait and see how it all pans out.

At some point some PL clubs have to take the plunge to hire an up-and-coming manager with no experience in the league otherwise we will get this situation where there's only 30-40 managers worldwide that have managed in the PL and are not dinosaur-aged. Obviously, Arbeloa is going to be a risk but he seemingly plays a similar formation and tactics to Marco so the risk is mitigated somewhat.

[AnotherVicHalomLoveChild]

Why haven't we gone for Neil Warnock, he only lives in Cornwall  and it will save a lot of fannying around.
We could have done it weeks ago, and he would have been charming a pile of new players through the gates at Motspur Park by now.

Caretaker manager of Torquay is about the summit of his managerial capabilities.

What did you expect? Wildebeests crossing the Serengeti?

[Sting of the North]

Even two of your examples (that he underachieved, and his relationship with the squad) are good examples of things that are subjective, not objective. But I assume you now that.

But if I ignore the objectiveness-hill that you for some strange reason seem willing to die on, I can agree that the appointment (should it happen) sounds quite risky. However, one would hope that the Khans did not just simply glance at Arbeloa's CV and then decided to appoint him because they were starstruck by the legend that is Real Madrid. I assume that quite a lot more goes into the process, which means that from the outside we lack a lot of context.

I also believe all appointments that we are likely to be able to make more or less are quite risky, but the reasons perhaps varies (experience, knowledge of players/leagues, tactics vs existing squad, etc.).

[Neutral Zone Ultra]

Why haven't we gone for Neil Warnock, he only lives in Cornwall  and it will save a lot of fannying around.
We could have done it weeks ago, and he would have been charming a pile of new players through the gates at Motspur Park by now.

Caretaker manager of Torquay is about the summit of his managerial capabilities.

What did you expect? Wildebeests crossing the Serengeti?

Word on the street is that C K Watt (aged 40) is being strongly considered