Honestly... what do we think of Slav now?

[Carborundum]

Thoughtful OP, highlights some of our key defensive characteristics.  Doesn't lead me to similar conclusions on all the points and not just because we have won four of the last five in the league. 

I like KMac dropping in to a back 3, mostly because he's very good at it.  I like fullbacks bombing forwards because it creates overloads and excitement.  I like the high line because when we play too far back we are horrible.  I accept that Spurs showed us up, but put that down to them being a lot better than us in every position.  Tom Cairney's good, but he's no Christian Erickson.

For me the really key feature of our defending is how we deliberately split the centrebacks.  Fairly unusual in this league.

The Championship is very evenly matched and so tactics can become a game of rock-paper-scissors.  The flaws identified can certainly be beaten.  But it isn't easy and we win more than we lose.  We make mistakes and concede goals.  That's football.

There's a couple of things I thoroughly agree with.  Letting LVC leave was not our managers best decision.  Watching live provides different insight to watching on a screen.

[bill taylors apprentice]

Its not in our human nature to imagine we are wrong but boy, this poster thinks he knows something, although he knows nothing!

I've learnt enough about Football to know I don't know it all, while this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's talking about!

[BedsFFC]

I blame the smoking ban.

The smoking ban has caused the demise of pubs.

In the old days, you would have found the grumpy old gits in the corner of pubs, on their own trying to grab the attention of anyone passing by for a piss or at the bar, with their constant negative take on everything. (The government is crap, the opposition is crap, nhs is crap, fags are too expensive, TV is poo, footballers are paid too much money, Fulham are crap, the chairman is crap)

Now all the pubs are closed, these grumpy sods have all come on here

[bill taylors apprentice]

I blame the smoking ban.

The smoking ban has caused the demise of pubs.

In the old days, you would have found the grumpy old gits in the corner of pubs, on their own trying to grab the attention of anyone passing by for a piss or at the bar, with their constant negative take on everything. (The government is crap, the opposition is crap, nhs is crap, fags are too expensive, TV is poo, footballers are paid too much money, Fulham are crap, the chairman is crap)

Now all the pubs are closed, these grumpy sods have all come on here

:005:

[Twig]

So you haven't seen seven of our last ten league games I dought you even support Fulham

Oh, OK, so because I don't live in London (and am only in London for Christmas hence the FA Cup game I went to), and can't afford a season ticket and the travel costs associated with it, I can't be a fan any more? Maybe I should go and support Brighton, because I live there now? That's a ridiculous argument as well you know. I've supported us since I was 7 years old in the days of Cookie. I'm not about to change now.

Edit: let me take the opportunity to clear it up, then. Unfortunately, because of these reasons, I've only seen 3 games in person, and we also have not won a televised game this year (all of which I have seen live).

Have you or have you not seen us win? You say you subscribe to Fulham TV, I get that you can't attend in person but surely you have seen us win on TV?
I disagree vehemently with your post which I find ridiculous in the extreme.  Our style of play is, at its best, scintillating and never pedestrian.  We play it on the ground, no hoofball and try to think about what we are doing.
Joka strikes me as a man who is passionate about his responsibilities at Fuham, hence his outbursts, unlike Jol.  And I can excuse those outbursts because he clearly wants the best for our team.
Excluding players? well why not if he feels he has better options? that's his job and it seems to me that a play off place last year and a similar trajectory this year suggests he knows his job very well indeed. 

[Slaphead in Qatar]

Its not in our human nature to imagine we are wrong but boy, this poster thinks he knows something, although he knows nothing!

I've learnt enough about Football to know I don't know it all, while this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's talking about!

I think I know what you are saying..... but I'm not sure

[davew]

So you haven't seen seven of our last ten league games I dought you even support Fulham

Oh, OK, so because I don't live in London (and am only in London for Christmas hence the FA Cup game I went to), and can't afford a season ticket and the travel costs associated with it, I can't be a fan any more? Maybe I should go and support Brighton, because I live there now? That's a ridiculous argument as well you know. I've supported us since I was 7 years old in the days of Cookie. I'm not about to change now.

Edit: let me take the opportunity to clear it up, then. Unfortunately, because of these reasons, I've only seen 3 games in person, and we also have not won a televised game this year (all of which I have seen live).

I wasn't questioning whether you can be classed as a fan or not, I am a fan and I haven't watched Fulham at the Cottage for many years! I am wondering how many televised games we have won this season, 1 of our stat's boys on here will provide that information. I didn't realise you were a Fulham TV subscriber, well that's good as you will have seen a lot of our recent wins, some not very pretty but wins are wins!

[brightster]

So you haven't seen seven of our last ten league games I dought you even support Fulham

Oh, OK, so because I don't live in London (and am only in London for Christmas hence the FA Cup game I went to), and can't afford a season ticket and the travel costs associated with it, I can't be a fan any more? Maybe I should go and support Brighton, because I live there now? That's a ridiculous argument as well you know. I've supported us since I was 7 years old in the days of Cookie. I'm not about to change now.

Edit: let me take the opportunity to clear it up, then. Unfortunately, because of these reasons, I've only seen 3 games in person, and we also have not won a televised game this year (all of which I have seen live).

Have you or have you not seen us win? You say you subscribe to Fulham TV, I get that you can't attend in person but surely you have seen us win on TV?
I disagree vehemently with your post which I find ridiculous in the extreme.  Our style of play is, at its best, scintillating and never pedestrian.  We play it on the ground, no hoofball and try to think about what we are doing.
Joka strikes me as a man who is passionate about his responsibilities at Fuham, hence his outbursts, unlike Jol.  And I can excuse those outbursts because he clearly wants the best for our team.
Excluding players? well why not if he feels he has better options? that's his job and it seems to me that a play off place last year and a similar trajectory this year suggests he knows his job very well indeed.



Well said totally agree, the players that he has let go, are they really better than what we have got in our starting 11 or even back up!
Football now days is not about compassion just because the crowd like certain players, it's about balancing the books in our case to create a better squad!   

[flyingfish]

Its not in our human nature to imagine we are wrong but boy, this poster thinks he knows something, although he knows nothing!

I've learnt enough about Football to know I don't know it all, while this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's talking about!

There is actually a term for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect . Basically, one's level of knowledge is related to confidence. With a little bit of knowledge, confidence is high. As one learns more about a subject, even though knowledge is increasing, confidence drops. Essentially you learn more about what you don't know over time.

You see this all the time in physical activities - for example - with a little experience really think they are the dog's knob, when they frankly haven't a clue what they are doing and don't know what they don't know.

Also skills required for many jobs - the more experienced one is, the less confident they are that they know all the answers as they have a better wider understanding.

I can't believe I just posted about the Dunning-Kruger effect in a football forum.

[davew]

Watching live provides different insight to watching on a screen.

It certainly does, watching a game live (which would be every bodies preference) only provides you with a split second analysis whereas TV/Fulham TV allows the viewer with a better opportunity to analyse what really went on. Sadly gone are the days when I am able to watch the lads at the Cottage, but thankful I can listen to GJ every week and watch Fulham TV as well as matches televised on Sky and BT Sports.

[davew]

I blame the smoking ban.

The smoking ban has caused the demise of pubs.

In the old days, you would have found the grumpy old gits in the corner of pubs, on their own trying to grab the attention of anyone passing by for a piss or at the bar, with their constant negative take on everything. (The government is crap, the opposition is crap, nhs is crap, fags are too expensive, TV is poo, footballers are paid too much money, Fulham are crap, the chairman is crap)

Now all the pubs are closed, these grumpy sods have all come on here

(LOL), I still smoke in the local pub car park though.

[BedsFFC]

I blame the smoking ban.

The smoking ban has caused the demise of pubs.

In the old days, you would have found the grumpy old gits in the corner of pubs, on their own trying to grab the attention of anyone passing by for a piss or at the bar, with their constant negative take on everything. (The government is crap, the opposition is crap, nhs is crap, fags are too expensive, TV is poo, footballers are paid too much money, Fulham are crap, the chairman is crap)

Now all the pubs are closed, these grumpy sods have all come on here

(LOL), I still smoke in the local pub car park though.

I did truly LOL. Good one

[Woolly Mammoth]

Ok in my ignorance what does "WUM" mean

It's a shortened version of Will U Marry me

[toshes mate]

@Brawn

A little more comprehension about your OP has now got the little grey matter I have left a glimpse into your malaise.  You are UK based and, therefore, must rely upon Sky (or BBC for FA Cup) to show you live coverage of Fulham's games something they have no reputation for fair coverage of even going back to PL days.  Villa are their favourite selection for coverage in the EFL (and also pretty high in PL days) by a country mile.  FFCTV does give you highlights and ninety minute playback afterwards but you yearn for the live experience.  By my reckoning the journey from Brighton Station to Putney Bridge Station is about seventy minutes long (Brighton-Clapham Junction-Wimbledon-Putney Bridge).  A travel card to cover the whole journey would cost about £20.  Add the cost of your seat.  Really want to enjoy Craven Cottage and Fulham football at its best then save up your money and have a good day out in London too.  If FFC win then you get a bonus, and if you don't you can always repeat until they do.

[Woolly Mammoth]

I blame the smoking ban.

The smoking ban has caused the demise of pubs.

In the old days, you would have found the grumpy old gits in the corner of pubs, on their own trying to grab the attention of anyone passing by for a piss or at the bar, with their constant negative take on everything. (The government is crap, the opposition is crap, nhs is crap, fags are too expensive, TV is poo, footballers are paid too much money, Fulham are crap, the chairman is crap)

Now all the pubs are closed, these grumpy sods have all come on here

We have to go somewhere!!

[bill taylors apprentice]

Its not in our human nature to imagine we are wrong but boy, this poster thinks he knows something, although he knows nothing!

I've learnt enough about Football to know I don't know it all, while this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's talking about!

I think I know what you are saying..... but I'm not sure

I was trying to be a bit cryptic (if that's the right word) LOL!
This guy has obviously put some time into his post so to give him the benefit of the doubt I say he's barking up the wrong tree!

We all know the squad has been thin on quality for some time and the Head Coach has developed a strategy to cover the weakness's and maximise the strengths, its not perfect but I see a plan.   

[Slaphead in Qatar]

Its not in our human nature to imagine we are wrong but boy, this poster thinks he knows something, although he knows nothing!

I've learnt enough about Football to know I don't know it all, while this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's talking about!

I think I know what you are saying..... but I'm not sure

I was trying to be a bit cryptic (if that's the right word) LOL!
This guy has obviously put some time into his post so to give him the benefit of the doubt I say he's barking up the wrong tree!

We all know the squad has been thin on quality for some time and the Head Coach has developed a strategy to cover the weakness's and maximise the strengths, its not perfect but I see a plan.   

I think Slav is very good - hope he sticks around

[Woolly Mammoth]

I believe Jok has had his hands tied with the recruitment, and therefore some players are not his choice, and he has been undermined by this recruitment policy the club has which clearly does not work, and occasionally his frustration boils over and he relays it in the odd interview, but then who wouldn't be, no wonder he doesn't feel like smiling.
He was probably made aware of how they operate, but nevertheless he may have not realised what a Control freak Kline was, and the lack of experience of the Chairman's son, and the amateurish way they operate culminating in an overal penny pinching recruitment washout in the transfer windows, which is made even more frustrating as we probably have much better prospects in our Academy who could step up, as opposed to recruiting dead wood and rejects from places far away, that has never made any sense to me.
On the other side of the coin is the fact that on occasions his team selections in the past have not met the full approval of many on here, and I can understand that, as sometimes his game management. Not forgetting his limited command of the English language, which may or may not effect team talks before and at half time.
But all that is small fry if we consider the wider picture. The Football we are watching is being admired in most camps.
Yes of course we need a CB a LB and a Striker asap, and I would like to see more of gritty and physical edge to our game and system of play, as this Division can be a graveyard for teams with a soft underbelly. But our football can be sublime, coupled with the little unbeaten run we have started and only a point behind the play offs makes me feel he must be doing something right.
Yes he may be a little stubborn, but nobodies perfect, and let's face it, put yourself in his place having to work with these amateurs, where is their support behind the scenes for our Manager, ARE THEY LISTENING TO HIM, or are they so busy with that daft game with crash helmets, that Fulham FC are just an after thought.
It's plainly obvious that we need three outfield positions strengthing properly big time. If that fails to happen by the end of this month, then we know who to blame if the wheels come off, and it isn't Jok.
At the end of the day, the grass is not always greener on the other side, and who is out there available who you could guarantee is better than Jok, assuming they would want to come and work under this regime anyway. Yes Kline has been removed, but there were others that should have followed him.

[Holders]

Its not in our human nature to imagine we are wrong but boy, this poster thinks he knows something, although he knows nothing!

I've learnt enough about Football to know I don't know it all, while this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's talking about!

I think I know what you are saying..... but I'm not sure

I was trying to be a bit cryptic (if that's the right word) LOL!
This guy has obviously put some time into his post so to give him the benefit of the doubt I say he's barking up the wrong tree!

We all know the squad has been thin on quality for some time and the Head Coach has developed a strategy to cover the weakness's and maximise the strengths, its not perfect but I see a plan.   

I think Slav is very good - hope he sticks around

Agree. The question was what do we think of him now? Well, with the benefit of seeing his teams play the past couple of seasons my opinion is higher than when he came in - I was optimistic then, based on his reputation, and have now seen Fulham playing the best football (on occasions) since the Tigana days. Simple as that but I suspect the question went deeper. He clearly has difficulties over recruitment and is perhaps a bit bloody-minded over not playing certain players whom he did not personally select. On the other hand, his reputation depends on results so I can understand why he takes the stand he's reported to. As Slaphead said, he seems to be skilled in plugging the gaps.

,

[bill taylors apprentice]

Its not in our human nature to imagine we are wrong but boy, this poster thinks he knows something, although he knows nothing!

I've learnt enough about Football to know I don't know it all, while this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's talking about!

There is actually a term for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect . Basically, one's level of knowledge is related to confidence. With a little bit of knowledge, confidence is high. As one learns more about a subject, even though knowledge is increasing, confidence drops. Essentially you learn more about what you don't know over time.

You see this all the time in physical activities - for example - with a little experience really think they are the dog's knob, when they frankly haven't a clue what they are doing and don't know what they don't know.

Also skills required for many jobs - the more experienced one is, the less confident they are that they know all the answers as they have a better wider understanding.

I can't believe I just posted about the Dunning-Kruger effect in a football forum.

I was talking to a couple of mates the other day and one used the DK effect to explain something, while no academic myself I found it an interesting subject.

In the case of this OP my view is he's putting forward his argument confidently but its based on his incorrect assessment !
I don't know enough about DK to say this is a classic case (possibly not) but thought some of the phrases my mate used where appropriate.