Old Sod's Army.

[bog]

Good morning fellow footsoldiers. Was not the silky footwork of Brede after Mark had saved from Odemwingie quite out of keeping with the central defender club? His gentle carressing of the ball as he walzed past another marauding attacker was an exceptional display of ball control. However, this went completely unnoticed by MOTD....wonder what would have happened if this had been demonstrated by a defender of the top four clubs?
Now doubt the man is close to being our best ever central defender....and they put that donkey Richard Dunne in the prem top team the year we got to Hamburg...   

[Fernhurst]

..and they put that donkey Richard Dunne in the prem top team the year we got to Hamburg...   


Only for his goal scoring prowess Capt  :005:

[bog]

Yes he is lethal in front of his own goal. :011:

[cebu]

I nominate Dunne for the Zat Knight Award for Excellence.   :55:

[Burt]

Our own Johnny Pantsil was quite adept at finding his own net, I seem to remember...

[cmg]

Yes, Brede's footwork was quite remarkable (as our ex-manager and tv pundit would say). Hate to think of the stick he'd have got if it hadn't come off! But that's confidence for you. It's what turned Zamora's career with us around, and what Ruiz needs to show us what he is capable of.

I'd have to agree that Hangeland is probably our best ever centre back. But it is a pretty competitive field. I can remember the likes of Bentley, Keetch, Dempsey, Went, Lacy, Howe, Money, Brown, Coleman, Morgan, Symonds, Melville, Goma, Knight (not everybody's favourite, I know!) and Hughes to name a few. They might not all have been world-beaters, but it does show that we have been well served in this position over the years.

[bog]

As you rightly say cmg we have had many a great centre back. My best so far is Roy Bentley. Swapped from a top quality centre forward he made an imposing centre back. Was Bobby Keecth our most uncompromising?
No doubt Brede is among the top three in the league....mind you no oen in the media would say this.

[TonyGilroy]

Keetch was terrifying. By the standards even of his day he was "uncompromising". No way a player like that could play today.

[cmg]

Bobby Keetch - "uncompromising", a very interesting use of the word!
He wasn't around for long, but left an indelible impression in all who saw him - and a great deal of scar tissue on the limbs of those cente-forwards who he opposed.
He got away with it for a while, but after he was sent off for brawling with Irvine (or Lochhead, can't remember which) of Burnley in a Christmas return fixture the referees had him sussed and he was never quite so effective.

Roy Bentley was probably my favourite, too (although I think Coleman had a great deal of class). The year we went up (1959) we played Swansea at the Cottage (I think this was one of the few home matches we lost). It had just been announced that Mel Charles (John's younger brother) was to sign for Arsenal and the young hero was surrounded by press photographers before the match. Bentley seemed to take exception to this adulation (he was quite a fearsome figure with his craggy features and hooded eyes, the epitome of the old pro) and young Mel spent the match either on his back or falling. The boy's football annuals I got for christmas that year all had pictures of Mel Charles from that game (usually in retouched Arsenal colours), they were tightly cropped, but they couldn't get rid of Roy Bentley's boot in all of them making violent contact with the Welshman's person.

[Peabody]

In my time, I have seen a fair few centre halfs playing for Fulham. From Jim Taylor, who was quite handy, Derek Lampe and Gordon Brice, both of whom never met the promise of earlier years and Roy Bentley, who was very nearly capped by England as a centre half, also don't for get Eddie Lowe, who inlater years moved to Centre half. Have to say though that I think that Brede is properbly our best, especially with his partnership with Aaron Hughes, who is also up there. Might be interesting to have a top ten. Mine would be:
1. Brede Hangerland
2. Chris Coleman
3. Roy Bentley
4. Jim Taylor
5. Aaron Hughes
6. Tony Gale
7. Eddie Lowe
8. Roger Brown
9. Bobby Keetch
10. Paul Went.

[alfie]

would like to make it a top 12 and have chris baird and carlos boccanegra (spelling) sitting in there somewhere.

[cmg]

I wouldn't disagree with Peabody's assessment, although Jim Taylor predates my experience.
I'd forgotten about Tony Gale an excellent payer of considerable skill, unlucky not to get a full cap, he formed a fine partnership with Roger Brown. Taking over from Lacy and Mooro - who, if past his best, was still pretty good for us and is, of course, considered by some judges (including Pele and Kaiser Franz) to have been the greatest defensive player of all.

Eddie Lowe was my old man's favourite from that era (he greatly admired Haynes, but, I think, secretely thought that Alex James was better) but I remember him more of an old fashioned defensive wing-half (holding midfielder , in today's parlance?). Whatever, he must surely be unique in having been dropped by his country after playing in a 10-0 away victory (v Portugal)!

[Peabody]

Of course Bobby Moore was brilliant for us but I thought we were talking of Nos 5's (the traditional number for a centre half). Technically, I suppose that on that premise I should'nt include Tony Gale or Aaron Hughes who would be defensive wing halfs. Whilst I am on, I mentioned Paul Went, who was a very good player but could be a red card in waiting. When he moved to Portsmouth from us, his first game against us was just prior to our 1975 cup final and he did a shocking tackle on Les Strong, which meant Les missed the cup final.

[bog]

Glad to see Jim Taylor mentioned. 'Gentleman Jim' was reckoned to be good enough for England but Neil Franklin kept him out. He was playing when I first started going.
As for Roy Bentley I used to go to primary school (West Twyford) with his daughter and still recall him picking her up at 3 and looking to stand about 8 foot tall. Him not his daughter.
Whatever is said about subtle Bobby Keetch he loved the club and apparently was really upset when he was sold to QPR.
As for Eddie Lowe, like Aaron Hughes, a quiet man who just got on with his job, nice bloke he always seemed.     

[cmg]

I think what happened was that the game changed.
Bentley, Dodgin, Keetch etc. played as solo central defenders with a no. 5 on their backs. Englands WC win in '66 virtually confirmed the supremacy of the back 4 with twin centre-backs becoming the norm (in the best set-ups one of them would be a more cultured player eg. Moore or Gale), and numbers became less relevent.
I was usually confused by 'systems', at least until Hodgson opened my eyes, but did we not sometimes use THREE centre-backs in the Coleman/Melville/Symods/Morgan era? As an erstwhile solo centre-half myself, I sometimes wondered what they all found to do.

[cmg]

I don't want to get too bogged down in nostalgia, but I've enjoyed this thread and am particularly pleased to find those about who go further back than I do.

My abiding memory of Bobby Keetch, apart from the mayhem he wraught on the field, was his off-field style. In an age when pro footballers dressed like schoolteachers and carried their boots in a brown paper bag to see Keetch emerge from the team coach in immaculate cashmere overcoat with astrakhan collar carrying his mohair suit on a hanger ready for the evening's King's Road festivities was a sight to behold.
His taste for the stylish, which included some impressive female company, did not extend to his football boots which were iron toe-capped monstrosities which looked like the cast-offs of a 1930's second-row forward.
A tragically young death and a great mate of Johnny Haynes, Keetch was an excellent bloke and always had time for his fans.

[Peabody]

Glad to see Jim Taylor mentioned. 'Gentleman Jim' was reckoned to be good enough for England but Neil Franklin kept him out. He was playing when I first started going.
As for Roy Bentley I used to go to primary school (West Twyford) with his daughter and still recall him picking her up at 3 and looking to stand about 8 foot tall. Him not his daughter.
Whatever is said about subtle Bobby Keetch he loved the club and apparently was really upset when he was sold to QPR.
As for Eddie Lowe, like Aaron Hughes, a quiet man who just got on with his job, nice bloke he always seemed.     


Jim Taylor did get two England caps Bog. One against Portugal and the other against Ireland (I think). How come I can remember that but regularly forget my post code?

[ron]

I don't want to get too bogged down in nostalgia

Why? In an Old Sod's Army thread it's nothing short of essential !

[Fernhurst]

I'd have to agree that Hangeland is probably our best ever centre back. But it is a pretty competitive field. I can remember the likes of Bentley, Keetch, Dempsey, Went, Lacy, Howe, Money, Brown, Coleman, Morgan, Symonds, Melville, Goma, Knight (not everybody's favourite, I know!) and Hughes to name a few. They might not all have been world-beaters, but it does show that we have been well served in this position over the years.
[/quote]

Oh I was so enjoying your list CMG until you mentioned ZAT  :58:
My flabber remains ghasted that he is still playing at Premiership level.

Regarding the flamboyant Keetch, I remember a game against our neighbours at The Cottage and unusually we were pressing toward the hammy end when a long ball was quickly played over the top.
Keetch (Terry Venables  best friend btw) and Bobby Tambling turned together... however is was only a race for 3 strides as he streaked away to slot past Macedo.



Really good thread... My top man would be Coleman..... just

[bog]

Yes Peabody you are right he got them two caps, I should have said that he would have got a lot more if it was not for Franklin....sorry to be pedantic...