Are WHU a big club?

[ClarksOriginal]

From Twitter this morning:

talkSPORTDrive talkSPORTDrive

Ed Warner UK Athletics chiarman says he wouldn't be surprised if WHU take up tenancy of Olympic Stadium. WHUFC surely too big to be tenants?


The main point in this tweet is the last sentance 'Surely WHUFC are too big to be tenants' , this has got me thinking, are  087.gif a big club anymore?


I may be being cynical here, but I don't think WHU are 'big' anymore.

Two or three reasons got me thinking this:

1. The club are in the Championship, now this is no dicredit to the league itself but can a 'Big' club participate in such a league? The seasons when they have been in the Premiership they have survived by the skin of their teeth. 

2. Financially, the club are a mess, yes, in the off season they showed their financial muscle against the likes of Bristol City and Peterborough, but in a PL season could they attract the likes of Riise, Ruiz or even to an extent the players that NUFC or even WWFC have bought in (Roger Johnson)?

3. The stadium mess, everyone knows about this and with the deal collapsing, does that mean something really isn't right at WHUFC.


I know, like all of you that WHU have a massive history & fan base, which I can more than appreciate, but I am thinking modern day and achievements on the pitch, are they still big?

Maybe I am being cynical, but I would like to know what you guys thought too.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

I think they are still a big club - most of which is defined by their fan base.

They still are THE club in east London, which is a huge catchment area that goes out to essex. No other club in the area really come that close.

Financial mismanagement has scuppered them in recent years, but they generally will always be a top tier team

[WhiteJC]

Leeds are a big club, how long since the've been in the Premiership?

[finnster01]

Yes.
And a necessary evil to ensure keeping the Cottage a wide-boys free zone.  :005:  

[ClarksOriginal]

Leeds are a big club, how long since the've been in the Premiership?

Yes, actually, thinking about it now the amount of 'fallen giants' in football is actually quite deastating. Sheff Weds too.

[richie17]

Not sure where West Ham's claim to be a big club comes from. 

The league's really good teams:

Preston
Sunderland
Villa
Possibly Newcastle
Huddersfield
Possibly Everton
Arsenal
Spurs
Wolves
Spurs
United
Leeds
Forest
Liverpool
Everton
Liverpool
Arsenal
United
Arsenal
Chelsea
And now City

West Ham have the whole 1966 thing going on, I appreciate, but haven't made a dent in the game's history really.  Any of the above can legitimately claim to have been a big club, but West Ham?  Not sure about that. 

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Not sure where West Ham's claim to be a big club comes from. 

The league's really good teams:

Preston
Sunderland
Villa
Possibly Newcastle
Huddersfield
Possibly Everton
Arsenal
Spurs
Wolves
Spurs
United
Leeds
Forest
Liverpool
Everton
Liverpool
Arsenal
United
Arsenal
Chelsea
And now City

West Ham have the whole 1966 thing going on, I appreciate, but haven't made a dent in the game's history really.  Any of the above can legitimately claim to have been a big club, but West Ham?  Not sure about that. 

Not sure I would agree about Nottingham Forest:

http://www.surrealfootball.com/2011/10/10/steve-mcclaren-nottingham-forest-forestiti/

[ClarksOriginal]

Not sure where West Ham's claim to be a big club comes from. 

The league's really good teams:

Preston
Sunderland
Villa
Possibly Newcastle
Huddersfield
Possibly Everton
Arsenal
Spurs
Wolves
Spurs
United
Leeds
Forest
Liverpool
Everton
Liverpool
Arsenal
United
Arsenal
Chelsea
And now City

West Ham have the whole 1966 thing going on, I appreciate, but haven't made a dent in the game's history really.  Any of the above can legitimately claim to have been a big club, but West Ham?  Not sure about that. 

Not sure I would agree about Nottingham Forest:

http://www.surrealfootball.com/2011/10/10/steve-mcclaren-nottingham-forest-forestiti/

Clough Era I'm guessing.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Not sure where West Ham's claim to be a big club comes from. 

The league's really good teams:

Preston
Sunderland
Villa
Possibly Newcastle
Huddersfield
Possibly Everton
Arsenal
Spurs
Wolves
Spurs
United
Leeds
Forest
Liverpool
Everton
Liverpool
Arsenal
United
Arsenal
Chelsea
And now City

West Ham have the whole 1966 thing going on, I appreciate, but haven't made a dent in the game's history really.  Any of the above can legitimately claim to have been a big club, but West Ham?  Not sure about that. 

Not sure I would agree about Nottingham Forest:

http://www.surrealfootball.com/2011/10/10/steve-mcclaren-nottingham-forest-forestiti/

Clough Era I'm guessing.

That was an amazing era, but they won two consecutive european cups and a league cup. Since then? Bupkiss. They used to be a provincial team, and they are one again now.

[ImperialWhite]

Not sure where West Ham's claim to be a big club comes from. 

The league's really good teams:


West Ham have the whole 1966 thing going on, I appreciate, but haven't made a dent in the game's history really.  Any of the above can legitimately claim to have been a big club, but West Ham?  Not sure about that. 

Not sure I would agree about Nottingham Forest:

http://www.surrealfootball.com/2011/10/10/steve-mcclaren-nottingham-forest-forestiti/

Clough Era I'm guessing.

That was an amazing era, but they won two consecutive european cups and a league cup. Since then? Bupkiss. They used to be a provincial team, and they are one again now.

But two European Cups is two European cups. That's twice the number achieved by all of the French clubs, ever.

If you've ever won anything, you're a big club, in my opinion - because most clubs have never won anything (non-top flight division title wins not included, of course).

[FC Silver Fox]

Just to go off on a slight tangent on this debate, I don't think its a criterion of a large club to own its own stadium. Practically no top division club in France owns its stadium and I think that's the case in a number of countries.
   As financial stability becomes more of an issue in the coming years, I think we will see more Premiership clubs selling off their stadium and then leasing it back in order to decrease their level of debt. The risk of other development of the site can be avoided with a long-term lease. Clubs will focus on their core business of trying to make money from football.
 Who knows, this may also extend to the revolutionary idea of clubs not owning players in the future and only leasing them for a couple of seasons ?
 How will you define a big club in the future? One who wins trophies regularly and has a large turnover.

[ClarksOriginal]

Not sure where West Ham's claim to be a big club comes from.  

The league's really good teams:


West Ham have the whole 1966 thing going on, I appreciate, but haven't made a dent in the game's history really.  Any of the above can legitimately claim to have been a big club, but West Ham?  Not sure about that.  

Not sure I would agree about Nottingham Forest:

http://www.surrealfootball.com/2011/10/10/steve-mcclaren-nottingham-forest-forestiti/

Clough Era I'm guessing.

That was an amazing era, but they won two consecutive european cups and a league cup. Since then? Bupkiss. They used to be a provincial team, and they are one again now.

But two European Cups is two European cups. That's twice the number achieved by all of the French clubs, ever.

If you've ever won anything, you're a big club, in my opinion - because most clubs have never won anything (non-top flight division title wins not included, of course).

Marseille won the European cup (Champions League) in 1993. Sorry, I am a L'OM follower too.

But I agree with your second point to an extent, obviously having a legacy i.e Liverpool or United helps greatly in determine a big club.

[FC Silver Fox]

yeah but Marseille did cheat to get there by bribing officials and players.  "Allez Lyon".

Mind you, I was at that game where it allegedly took place (Valenciennes v Marseille) and I didn't spot anything. I thought Valenciennes were just crap.

[richie17]

exactly. I wouldn't include Forest in a shorter list of the game's really great teams but in terms of England's 'big clubs' they certainly have a claim based on the aforementioned European Cups.  West Ham? What's the story?  What makes them a big club?  (Apart from beating us in the FA Cup Final, obviously.) 

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Not sure where West Ham's claim to be a big club comes from. 

The league's really good teams:


West Ham have the whole 1966 thing going on, I appreciate, but haven't made a dent in the game's history really.  Any of the above can legitimately claim to have been a big club, but West Ham?  Not sure about that. 

Not sure I would agree about Nottingham Forest:

http://www.surrealfootball.com/2011/10/10/steve-mcclaren-nottingham-forest-forestiti/

Clough Era I'm guessing.

That was an amazing era, but they won two consecutive european cups and a league cup. Since then? Bupkiss. They used to be a provincial team, and they are one again now.

But two European Cups is two European cups. That's twice the number achieved by all of the French clubs, ever.

If you've ever won anything, you're a big club, in my opinion - because most clubs have never won anything (non-top flight division title wins not included, of course).

I cant agree with that. Are portsmouth a big club for buying their way to an FA cup? Would we suddenly be a big club if we had won the Europa league? No.

[ImperialWhite]

yeah but Marseille did cheat to get there by bribing officials and players.  "Allez Lyon".

Mind you, I was at that game where it allegedly took place (Valenciennes v Marseille) and I didn't spot anything. I thought Valenciennes were just crap.

OL - booooo! Allez Les Verts!

The OM saga never made sense to me. If you're good enough to get to a European Cup final, you're good enough to win a league. Why bother match fixing? (assuming, as you say, that they won it fairly - which one assumes they did since UEFA presumably looked into it pretty carefully given the goings on in Ligue 1).

Marseille won the European cup (Champions League) in 1993. Sorry, I am a L'OM follower too.

Exactement! That's why I said Forest have achieved twice as much as France (two European Cups to OM's one).

That said, France really does have a terrible return on the number of finals it's clubs have been in - six finals, only one winner.

[TonyGilroy]

If you were selecting a Premier League of 20 clubs based upon history and fan base West Ham would probably just make the cut whereas we wouldn't.

They're big but not that big. If ManU are 6ft 4" they're about 5ft 10".

[AlFayedsChequebook]

If you were selecting a Premier League of 20 clubs based upon history and fan base West Ham would probably just make the cut whereas we wouldn't.

They're big but not that big. If ManU are 6ft 4" they're about 5ft 10".

Would that make us an Andy Johnsonesque 5' 7"?

[ImperialWhite]

Not sure where West Ham's claim to be a big club comes from. 

The league's really good teams:


West Ham have the whole 1966 thing going on, I appreciate, but haven't made a dent in the game's history really.  Any of the above can legitimately claim to have been a big club, but West Ham?  Not sure about that. 

Not sure I would agree about Nottingham Forest:

http://www.surrealfootball.com/2011/10/10/steve-mcclaren-nottingham-forest-forestiti/

Clough Era I'm guessing.

That was an amazing era, but they won two consecutive european cups and a league cup. Since then? Bupkiss. They used to be a provincial team, and they are one again now.

But two European Cups is two European cups. That's twice the number achieved by all of the French clubs, ever.

If you've ever won anything, you're a big club, in my opinion - because most clubs have never won anything (non-top flight division title wins not included, of course).

I cant agree with that. Are portsmouth a big club for buying their way to an FA cup? Would we suddenly be a big club if we had won the Europa league? No.

On a grander scale, yes, I think we are big clubs. There are big clubs and "big clubs" - only clubs like Real Madrid, Milan, Manchester United etc fit into that lofty latter category - but not being a footballing giant doesn't mean you're not a big club.

Portsmouth, and us had we won the Europa (or even just by reaching a final) are massive clubs compared to (say) Hereford United, Bath City, Oxford City, Crawley Town, Stockport County and the like.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

On a grander scale, yes, I think we are big clubs. There are big clubs and "big clubs" - only clubs like Real Madrid, Milan, Manchester United etc fit into that lofty latter category - but not being a footballing giant doesn't mean you're not a big club.

Portsmouth, and us had we won the Europa (or even just by reaching a final) are massive clubs compared to (say) Hereford United, Bath City, Oxford City, Crawley Town, Stockport County and the like.

Definitive list of big clubs would be:

England:

Manchester United
Liverpool

Scotland:

Rangers
Celtic

Italy:

Juventus
Ac Milan
Inter Milan

Spain:

Barcelona
Real Madrid

Germany:

Bayern Munich