cant be to down after that

[jazz hardrockin]

Don't know much about Ruiz, but judging his game today he is a no leader. neither a creative either.

Just how many times do you have to repeat the same opinion in multiple threads before you can move on. You patently don't like Ruiz - WE know, WE get it, now please move on for all our sakes.

Find one more thread with my opinion on Ruiz and I'll buy all the drinks.Would you? If you can't, promise here to change spectacles....cause to ask for attitude change is too much i know... :dft012: lol....

[copthornemike]

Ruiz plainly is a 'cut above' when it comes to skill - that clearance from inside our penalty box when he chested the ball down and volleyed across to Reither was pure class.
However my problem is that when he loses the ball to an opposition player in midfield, or fails to compete for a 50:50, I cannot recall him chasing back to slow down their run so the opposition often have a clear route into our penalty area. He will create plenty of chances this season but that may be negated by the number of times he puts our defence under pressure.

[nose]

I am generally accused of being to critical and for having it in for ruiz, but actually i don't have it in for anyone BUT The problem with ruiz is that he is ponderous in possesion, loses the ball cheaply far too often and generally when it hurts us. When he gets the ball he generally controls it on the outside of his foot (dangerous as it shows it to the opponent and invites a straightforward challenge) turns, then if still in possesion turns again the other way and heads for congested areas. the idea ruiz will play the ball on the inside of the foot and/or first time isn't gonna happen. He makes an occasional impressive pass but that is massively overshadowed but his faults. Against man city in the second half his total lack of effort was an embarrasment, the rest of the team really tried, but Bryan decided it was OK to walk through the entire 45 minutes. For a player with so called ability, his shot straight at hart was a pathetic excuse, I had expected to see the net bulge.
Sorry to be so down on him but he really isn't doing it and I would prefer a hardworker with no 'flair' unitil we get a properely talented player.

By the way I noticed years ago that the players that perform best also work the hardest. I saw mario Kempes once, an imensely talented player and his work rate was something to behold. Personally i would forgive him if he was really putting in the effort.

[cottage cheese]

I am generally accused of being to critical and for having it in for ruiz, but actually i don't have it in for anyone BUT The problem with ruiz is that he is ponderous in possesion, loses the ball cheaply far too often and generally when it hurts us. When he gets the ball he generally controls it on the outside of his foot (dangerous as it shows it to the opponent and invites a straightforward challenge) turns, then if still in possesion turns again the other way and heads for congested areas. the idea ruiz will play the ball on the inside of the foot and/or first time isn't gonna happen. He makes an occasional impressive pass but that is massively overshadowed but his faults. Against man city in the second half his total lack of effort was an embarrasment, the rest of the team really tried, but Bryan decided it was OK to walk through the entire 45 minutes. For a player with so called ability, his shot straight at hart was a pathetic excuse, I had expected to see the net bulge.
Sorry to be so down on him but he really isn't doing it and I would prefer a hardworker with no 'flair' unitil we get a properely talented player.

By the way I noticed years ago that the players that perform best also work the hardest. I saw mario Kempes once, an imensely talented player and his work rate was something to behold. Personally i would forgive him if he was really putting in the effort.

To be fair I have noticed Ruiz plays poorly against the top teams in general. He really is not suited just yet for the hard pressing fluid play that it needed to beat the top teams. Against the weaker teams in the league he looks a beast because he has the time and space to thread balls etc..
Man city pressed him and game flew by him. Against wigan he was allowed space and he ran the midfield for the time he was on. You cant compare city and wigan but the point I am making is that without time and space he cant perform.

He is good for us against the bottom teams and those around us but for me he will not be a match winner against the top teams which dempsey and now berbs are.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

I am generally accused of being to critical and for having it in for ruiz, but actually i don't have it in for anyone BUT The problem with ruiz is that he is ponderous in possesion, loses the ball cheaply far too often and generally when it hurts us. When he gets the ball he generally controls it on the outside of his foot (dangerous as it shows it to the opponent and invites a straightforward challenge) turns, then if still in possesion turns again the other way and heads for congested areas. the idea ruiz will play the ball on the inside of the foot and/or first time isn't gonna happen. He makes an occasional impressive pass but that is massively overshadowed but his faults. Against man city in the second half his total lack of effort was an embarrasment, the rest of the team really tried, but Bryan decided it was OK to walk through the entire 45 minutes. For a player with so called ability, his shot straight at hart was a pathetic excuse, I had expected to see the net bulge.
Sorry to be so down on him but he really isn't doing it and I would prefer a hardworker with no 'flair' unitil we get a properely talented player.

By the way I noticed years ago that the players that perform best also work the hardest. I saw mario Kempes once, an imensely talented player and his work rate was something to behold. Personally i would forgive him if he was really putting in the effort.

Yawn.

You are becoming a parody of yourself.

[costarican white]

Sarcastic mode on.

Interesting, I was going to say something about the team performance, but I guess I saw another game and many of you saw the Ruiz versus Man C game.

Sarcastic mode off.

[nose]

I am generally accused of being to critical and for having it in for ruiz, but actually i don't have it in for anyone BUT The problem with ruiz is that he is ponderous in possesion, loses the ball cheaply far too often and generally when it hurts us. When he gets the ball he generally controls it on the outside of his foot (dangerous as it shows it to the opponent and invites a straightforward challenge) turns, then if still in possesion turns again the other way and heads for congested areas. the idea ruiz will play the ball on the inside of the foot and/or first time isn't gonna happen. He makes an occasional impressive pass but that is massively overshadowed but his faults. Against man city in the second half his total lack of effort was an embarrasment, the rest of the team really tried, but Bryan decided it was OK to walk through the entire 45 minutes. For a player with so called ability, his shot straight at hart was a pathetic excuse, I had expected to see the net bulge.
Sorry to be so down on him but he really isn't doing it and I would prefer a hardworker with no 'flair' unitil we get a properely talented player.

By the way I noticed years ago that the players that perform best also work the hardest. I saw mario Kempes once, an imensely talented player and his work rate was something to behold. Personally i would forgive him if he was really putting in the effort.

Yawn.

You are becoming a parody of yourself.

A parody?
Me?
Surely not.

However  i do express my own opinion and try to give reasons as to why I hold it.

What perhaps you could have asked, if you wanted to engage in a proper discussion was
' Nose, my old fruit and nut, if you think you are so clever, what would you have done differently?'
But seeing as you are sleepy and already yawning I shall keep the reply to myself....

[nose]

Sarcastic mode on.

Interesting, I was going to say something about the team performance, but I guess I saw another game and many of you saw the Ruiz versus Man C game.

Sarcastic mode off.

Good point. I think the problem is that ruiz seems to divide some of us. there are those that think he is a real talent who influences games and is a major threat to the opposition. And those, like me that get a bit put out because he doesn't seem to fire on all cylinders and especially during the second half against city he really never put in the effort, and effort is a minimum requirement.

But you are right  I have not engaged in a proper review of the game. so for what it is worth i thought Man city were far far better than us but we acquitted ourselves really well under the circumstances. in truth the centre of our midfield is extremely lightweight and we need a much greater prescence there. I like baird there but he needs a better partner than sidwell. Just when it looked like we had got away witha draw disater struck wityh an individual error, but that is always possible when under such pressure.
I di think the substitutions were wrong but I don't know if petric was still injured. I like kaka but would have rplaced ruiz with him (not as an argument that is just what i would have tried). Baird leaving the field was a disaster.
But in the end the quality of the repsective benches spoke volumes, look at the three they brought on compared to what we can do.

Once again good post!

[HatterDon]

it's threads like these that make me pleased that FofF has that "ignore" button.  :beer:

[AlFayedsChequebook]

@Nose

I am very aware that you give your opinion. Rarely a thread goes by without you mentioning Ruiz and why he was a waste of money. This is indicative of your comments whenever you mention Ruiz:

The problem with ruiz is that he is ponderous in possesion, loses the ball cheaply far too often and generally when it hurts us

and

Sorry to be so down on him but he really isn't doing it and I would prefer a hardworker with no 'flair' unitil we get a properely talented player


Now it is fine to be of that opinion but it is not borne out by the facts. For example, last season just before he was injured, he covered the most ground out of anyone in the team for several matches including Bolton away (where he was injured and did not complete 90 mins). This includes the likes of Andy Johnson and Damien Duff, both considered to be workhorses. Against Man City he made the third most tackles and interceptions out of anyone on the team - surely this is indicating that he is putting in enough of a shift.

As for his passing, the idea that he gives the ball away a lot is not reflected at all in the stats. There is no doubt he struggled at points against City and had only 72% pass success rate, but the whole team struggled and no one performed particularly well with the ball. He also made the most passes out of anyone in the Fulham team. Despite giving the ball away he did create one of only two 'key passes' (i.e. passes that could lead to goals) on the day. If we look at the season as a whole, he has a better pass success rate than Dimitar Berbatov this season and if you are about to say 'but he does nothing with it', he also makes two key passes a match, the best in the team bar berbatov.

Last season Ruiz struggled but statistically had a similar output to the likes of Duff (who was lauded as having an excellent season). This year he has come on leaps and bounds, is stronger in the tackle, better in possession and crucially, is helping to run the team creatively.

But hey, it is easier to stick to the 'Ruiz is a wimp and a lazy foreigner' idea that started last season because any other judgement would require a bit of thought.

You can find all the stats here: http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/170

[RaySmith]

He was on fire in the first half hour, and seemed determined to prove a point.
But, yes, he did lose possession a lot in the second half, but as a team we struggled to keep possession, or mount any attacks.

I, myself, didn't think he could be faulted for effort, but maybe lost confidence, or belief. Well, it was particularly hard for the attacking Fulham players out there.

[nose]

@Nose

I am very aware that you give your opinion. Rarely a thread goes by without you mentioning Ruiz and why he was a waste of money. This is indicative of your comments whenever you mention Ruiz:

The problem with ruiz is that he is ponderous in possesion, loses the ball cheaply far too often and generally when it hurts us

and

Sorry to be so down on him but he really isn't doing it and I would prefer a hardworker with no 'flair' unitil we get a properely talented player


Now it is fine to be of that opinion but it is not borne out by the facts. For example, last season just before he was injured, he covered the most ground out of anyone in the team for several matches including Bolton away (where he was injured and did not complete 90 mins). This includes the likes of Andy Johnson and Damien Duff, both considered to be workhorses. Against Man City he made the third most tackles and interceptions out of anyone on the team - surely this is indicating that he is putting in enough of a shift.

As for his passing, the idea that he gives the ball away a lot is not reflected at all in the stats. There is no doubt he struggled at points against City and had only 72% pass success rate, but the whole team struggled and no one performed particularly well with the ball. He also made the most passes out of anyone in the Fulham team. Despite giving the ball away he did create one of only two 'key passes' (i.e. passes that could lead to goals) on the day. If we look at the season as a whole, he has a better pass success rate than Dimitar Berbatov this season and if you are about to say 'but he does nothing with it', he also makes two key passes a match, the best in the team bar berbatov.

Last season Ruiz struggled but statistically had a similar output to the likes of Duff (who was lauded as having an excellent season). This year he has come on leaps and bounds, is stronger in the tackle, better in possession and crucially, is helping to run the team creatively.

But hey, it is easier to stick to the 'Ruiz is a wimp and a lazy foreigner' idea that started last season because any other judgement would require a bit of thought.

You can find all the stats here: http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/170

Very well put.  Ruiz at bolton played exceptionally well it was a real shame that he got badly injured on that of all days. I had wondered if he was actually turning some kind of psychological corner on that day. Unquestionably his best game for me.

Regarding my comments they are a bit more technical than you have touched on, namely the endlss use of the outside of the foot and turning into trouble over and over. He gives the ball away cheaply too often is what I said and stand by, the stats are very misleading in pass completion terms because they don't diferentiate between what the player is attempting or when he is attempting it.
Ruiz had an OK first half V city, not greta but OK he had two stand out touches one which i am not sure he meant to Petric (I honestly think he was nudged from behind, it looked from where I was that he wanted to run with the ball) and one to duff. But he was poor in the second half.

My irritationis when people say he was MoM and crack him up to be some revalation.

Honestly I think if Jol is a good as he now seems to be then Ruiz will have to do more than he is.

And I will be happy to be proved wrong. I have to admit last season I was far from a Jol fan, thios season i am delighted with what he is trying to do. I like the more attacking style, wingers, a bit more flair. I have changed my mind, when Ruiz plays well for a whole game, like bolton, I will say so.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

@nose

He gives the ball away cheaply too often is what I said and stand by, the stats are very misleading in pass completion terms because they don't diferentiate between what the player is attempting or when he is attempting it.

You are conflating two different things and I have dealt with both. Firstly, his good pass completion rate shows that he doesnt give the ball away consistently, and secondly the number of 'key passes' being amongst the highest in the team (after Berba) shows that when he has the ball, he is often trying to make difficult passes.

[Count Berbatov]

He was on fire in the first half hour, and seemed determined to prove a point.
But, yes, he did lose possession a lot in the second half

That's how I saw it. That half an hour gave me hope. Otherwise I didn't think much of him before that game

[costarican white]

Sarcastic mode on.

Interesting, I was going to say something about the team performance, but I guess I saw another game and many of you saw the Ruiz versus Man C game.

Sarcastic mode off.

Good point. I think the problem is that ruiz seems to divide some of us. there are those that think he is a real talent who influences games and is a major threat to the opposition. And those, like me that get a bit put out because he doesn't seem to fire on all cylinders and especially during the second half against city he really never put in the effort, and effort is a minimum requirement.

But you are right  I have not engaged in a proper review of the game. so for what it is worth i thought Man city were far far better than us but we acquitted ourselves really well under the circumstances. in truth the centre of our midfield is extremely lightweight and we need a much greater prescence there. I like baird there but he needs a better partner than sidwell. Just when it looked like we had got away witha draw disater struck wityh an individual error, but that is always possible when under such pressure.
I di think the substitutions were wrong but I don't know if petric was still injured. I like kaka but would have rplaced ruiz with him (not as an argument that is just what i would have tried). Baird leaving the field was a disaster.
But in the end the quality of the repsective benches spoke volumes, look at the three they brought on compared to what we can do.

Once again good post!

Thanks, you got my point. My personal opinion on Ruiz's performance? regular, just like the rest of the team.

[A Humble Man]

It impresses me that Ruiz has beefed up and now can shrug off players.  He does sometimes run into cul de sacs but in my view he gets better every game.  if he starts scoring and setting up goals he will look very different to the fans. 

[BillNRoc]

I've read - in this thread and elsewhere - that none of our starters or bench players would merit even a spot on the Citeh bench. Can this be true?  Seems to me Hangeland is at least as good as the center back who played alongside Kompany, probably better. Joe Hart is highly regarded, but his goals/shots ratio isn't great, maybe his defense blocks lots of shots that get through to other keepers; Schwarzer is his equal, isn't he?

Our guys didn't match up well on the wings, in the middle, or up front, though. And we didn't have a Balotelli, a Nasri, or a Dzeko to sub in. But I'm stunned by the notion no FFC player would make the MC squad.

I'm disappointed by the result, yet never expected anything else. More concerned that we'll play down to Soton's level than that we lost to a superior (and much more expensive) team.

[jazz hardrockin]

Very Funny though....Fulham supporters glorifying a team which has had those results in a non so distance past....lol


Sep 15
Stoke City
1-1
Manchester City

Sep 18
Real Madrid
3-2

Manchester City
Sep 23
Manchester City
1-1
Arsenal

Sep 25
Manchester City
2-4
Aston Villa
Fulham supporters are very pleased and happy losing to a team who they believe is the greatest ever...lol...That's the excuse?

Lol, Fulham supporters reacting what they saw on the pitch today, lol, being smart enough to understand that past results guarantee nothing, lol, nobody has said they are pleased and happy, lol, well, apart from you, lol, who seems to be relishing the chance to put the boot into those he deems to be unworthy, lol.
No doubt if we had scraped a 1-0 win you would be whinging that it wasn't 2-0.

I suppose you will be one of those, when we finally get relegated, who will be there, beating his breast, shouting, "I Told You So!"
It's a strange way to show your support, but if it makes you happy, and judging by the constant lolling it does, well, good luck with it.
And please forgive me if I think that sort of "support" makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

"The classy Germans gave out-of-sorts Manchester City a Champions League lesson "
"City had created plenty of openings in an end-to-end first period, but were second best after the interval and only numerous stops from their No.1 prevented the game being over long before the final whistle."
http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/274131/report

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4570566/Manchester-City-1-1-Borussia-Dortmund-Match-report-pictures-and-video-highlights.html#ixzz28HoaTMrX

Hello Big Citeh lovers.....lol...anyone willing to enlighten me again?...lol...joke of a team with plenty of such supporters i guess......lol... 064.gif

[RidgeRider]

Well i for one thought Ruiz had an excellent game. Better than anyone else on the team. Not sure why some don't rate, even after reading the comments I still don't see it. Some I know are only on this site for only one player but not sure what else the guy needs to do. He is just coming back from an injury and played an excellent match.

Passing was excellent. Vision excellent. Held onto the ball well. He will be our player of this season before its all over.

[ffcbulgaria]

The classy Germans gave out-of-sorts Manchester City a Champions League lesson "
"City had created plenty of openings in an end-to-end first period, but were second best after the interval and only numerous stops from their No.1 prevented the game being over long before the final whistle."
http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/274131/report

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4570566/Manchester-City-1-1-Borussia-Dortmund-Match-report-pictures-and-video-highlights.html#ixzz28HoaTMrX

Hello Big Citeh lovers.....lol...anyone willing to enlighten me again?...lol...joke of a team with plenty of such supporters i guess......lol... 064.gif

Hello there. What exactly is your point?
That german bundesliga is the poo and the Champions League finalists only managed to finish 2nd behind a world unknown team of Dortmund? Remind us where your beloved team finished in the CL last season and you could also share their success in Europa League. Can you remind us also what was the aggregate score of the last two league meetings between your favourite club and this crappy team you are laughing at and what did you think about them after those two games?