Jol: Merged

[MasterHaynes]

Its very tricky when you say who is available. Because why should we only look at available managers.... Teams approach managers that are with other clubs all the time?

I would go for Di matteo as "available" but there are plenty of Managers with other clubs who might find Fulham as an attractive offer.... Khan would bring in a big name

You mean the same Di Matteo that Roy took over from at WBA saving their club from relegation and taking them to a good position in the league without spending a penny using the same players.

[Deanothefulhamfan]

Oh yeah thats right Di matteo got sacked from wba against the fans wishes, felt it was a ridiclious decision to sack him despite what he did at that club... They loved him there, he got them playing good attacking football...

He also masterminded chelsea to win a champions league with what I felt was a pretty poor side..... To be honest I think we would bring in a big name, but Di matteo over Jol every day of the week

[Deanothefulhamfan]

I don't understandn all this 'Jol should stay because no one can suggest who to replace him with' stuff.

Southampton have found a good manager, Swansea got Laudrup, we found Roy H, even Hughes was decent. There are still good managers out there.

Question is, does everyone think Jol is the best we can get and can he take us forward?

Easiest question of all..... NO

[Berbasilk_111]

how Jol is allowed to manage top clubs is beyond me, he would get Burton relegated in a flash...

[jmh]

What would also help is if the wide players (whoever is playing in that position, and I include the fullbacks) actually beat a man and put a decent cross into the box. Every single time the ball goes either backwards, cut inside or hits the first man. Its amazingly poor, and Dejagah, Kacaniklic and Riise are the main culprits.

If they cant do the main job of a wide player, then we might as well not bother playing wingers altogether. Nearly all our "attacks" are through centre trying to play little one twos through the defence which never work, or shooting wide from 25 yards

In fairness, those are things that Dejagah and Kacaniklic have been effective at in the past, and it certainly could be that they didn't do a good job of it yesterday because it was the first competitive action of the year for both of them and they weren't really at match sharpness.

[jmh]

I don't understandn all this 'Jol should stay because no one can suggest who to replace him with' stuff.

Southampton have found a good manager, Swansea got Laudrup, we found Roy H, even Hughes was decent. There are still good managers out there.

Question is, does everyone think Jol is the best we can get and can he take us forward?

Hughes who complained and insulted us when he left, then spent a huge pile of money at QPR and put them on track to relegation?  That's the Hughes you think would be a better option?

[jarv]

Didnt Hughes say recently he made a mistake leaving Fulham....   that was probably when he found out about the new rich owner.
Jol,   let's be patient and hope for some decent football.

[Bassey the warrior]

I would take Di Matteo, if Jol doesn't kick things up a notch by Christmas.
One thing that concerns me is that his leaving could cause mass unrest amongst the players that joined because of him. I'd be absolutely gutted to see our super stars leave.

[Bassey the warrior]

Oh yeah thats right Di matteo got sacked from wba against the fans wishes, felt it was a ridiclious decision to sack him despite what he did at that club... They loved him there, he got them playing good attacking football...

He also masterminded chelsea to win a champions league with what I felt was a pretty poor side..... To be honest I think we would bring in a big name, but Di matteo over Jol every day of the week

He was a bit naive defensively back then, and would most likely have took them down. Similar to Holloway's Blackpool, really pretty but couldn't defend to save their lives. He's learned alot from his Chelsea experience.

[The Old Count]

I don't understandn all this 'Jol should stay because no one can suggest who to replace him with' stuff.

Southampton have found a good manager, Swansea got Laudrup, we found Roy H, even Hughes was decent. There are still good managers out there.

Question is, does everyone think Jol is the best we can get and can he take us forward?

Hughes who complained and insulted us when he left, then spent a huge pile of money at QPR and put them on track to relegation?  That's the Hughes you think would be a better option?

I don't understandn all this 'Jol should stay because no one can suggest who to replace him with' stuff.

Southampton have found a good manager, Swansea got Laudrup, we found Roy H, even Hughes was decent. There are still good managers out there.

Question is, does everyone think Jol is the best we can get and can he take us forward?

Hughes who complained and insulted us when he left, then spent a huge pile of money at QPR and put them on track to relegation?  That's the Hughes you think would be a better option?

I didn't say that Hughes was better than Jol.  I was asking a question: Can Jol take us forward?  The jury is still out as far as I'm concerned.  For the record, I don' t think we should get rid of him.  Not yet anyway.

[Deanothefulhamfan]

Im not a fan of Jol (Im sure you never would have guessed )... but even I can see sacking him now would be a mistake. He has till christmas and if things dont improve then he has to go.... no more excuses now, he has had time to build " his squad" if he cant get this lot to play then nobody will play for him. I would also be worroed about Berbatov, tarrabt and Bent if Jol was to leave.

[thebumponleroyshead]

We will snatch a result at Geordie land, penalty and sending off, Fulhamish to the hilt.
Jol is a manager rated by lots of people all with no pessimistic agendas ie. Non FFC fans. I coach football and know many coaches in both England and Sweden who work 10 hours a day in football not just pontificate as an after work hobby, the vast majority think Jol is not the problem, the problem is expectation of fans grudgingly dissatisfied with modern football plus the fact that there are 10 teams now in the premier league who can attract the best players in the world due to the new TV deal. If you dont like the fact that FFC will finish anywhere from 16th and 8th, support AFC Wimbledon or Woking for naffs sake. S001.gif I saw Big Jim score at Crewe - pigs can fly, keep the faith everyone its not even bleeding September!!!

[MikeCdawg]

Jol wasn't popular at Ajax in general as he moved away from the traditional 4-3-3. I think its pretty clear that his time England as a player had a lot of influence on him. His football is far more English than Dutch as prefers a direct style <b/>
>

Well we're certainly not seeing any form of direct football from Jol and Fulham at the moment.

[ScalleysDad]

We will snatch a result at Geordie land, penalty and sending off, Fulhamish to the hilt.
Jol is a manager rated by lots of people all with no pessimistic agendas ie. Non FFC fans. I coach football and know many coaches in both England and Sweden who work 10 hours a day in football not just pontificate as an after work hobby, the vast majority think Jol is not the problem, the problem is expectation of fans grudgingly dissatisfied with modern football plus the fact that there are 10 teams now in the premier league who can attract the best players in the world due to the new TV deal. If you dont like the fact that FFC will finish anywhere from 16th and 8th, support AFC Wimbledon or Woking for naffs sake. S001.gif I saw Big Jim score at Crewe - pigs can fly, keep the faith everyone its not even bleeding September!!!

I hear that definition of Jol a lot too but cast a coaches eye over the last five games, from Betis to last night, and spot the development, the progress, the phases of play and the game plan ......

nope I can't see them either 

[NogoodBoyo]

Jol's principal strength?
To pick good players and persuade them to be part of his squad.  Ruiz, Berbatov, Bent, Riether, Parker.
His negatives?
He's not a good team manager – he plays to his favourites and ignores his foot soldiers. 
He is not a good man manager of his coaching staff. They are not good organisers.  Their team lacks discipline, shape and balance.
He does not know how to bring out the best in the talented youth he has available.  He plays them, He drops them.  He plays them. He drops them.  He damns them with faint praise.  On occasion he even criticizes them in public - a massive management fault in any field.
He manages through the press (those criticisms again).  Once again, in any business, that is very, very poor form.
Hence and sadly, my conclusion is that he is not a good choice for Fulham Football Club.
In response to Grandad's question as to who should we pick?  We're not the professionals.  We don't have the networks, the staff.  We rely on the press and messageboards for our opinions.  But, I'll wager a Welshmans's wellies that there are many out there who could do a better job.  As mentioned higher up, Laudrup, diMatteo, Steve Clark and good old Sir Roy Hodgson all came out of the blue at one time or other to surprise and delight their clubs' supporters. 
As Sir Roy showed, it's all about picking players who can play together as opposed to persuading supertarts to come on board and be big fish in little ponds.  I would far rather see a team of journeymen or youngsters win the game with a disciplined shape, sound teamwork and good technique than a few brilliant stars wondering around in an ugly dance all over the park, putting in the odd glorious flick, the odd beautiful goal – all the while losing us the game.
Nogood "there's funny how the weaknesses outweigh the strengths in your SWOT analysis, isit" Boyo

[alexbishop]

Jol's principal strength?
To pick good players and persuade them to be part of his squad.  Ruiz, Berbatov, Bent, Riether, Parker.
His negatives?
He's not a good team manager – he plays to his favourites and ignores his foot soldiers. 
He is not a good man manager of his coaching staff. They are not good organisers.  Their team lacks discipline, shape and balance.
He does not know how to bring out the best in the talented youth he has available.  He plays them, He drops them.  He plays them. He drops them.  He damns them with faint praise.  On occasion he even criticizes them in public - a massive management fault in any field.
He manages through the press (those criticisms again).  Once again, in any business, that is very, very poor form.
Hence and sadly, my conclusion is that he is not a good choice for Fulham Football Club.
In response to Grandad's question as to who should we pick?  We're not the professionals.  We don't have the networks, the staff.  We rely on the press and messageboards for our opinions.  But, I'll wager a Welshmans's wellies that there are many out there who could do a better job.  As mentioned higher up, Laudrup, diMatteo, Steve Clark and good old Sir Roy Hodgson all came out of the blue at one time or other to surprise and delight their clubs' supporters. 
As Sir Roy showed, it's all about picking players who can play together as opposed to persuading supertarts to come on board and be big fish in little ponds.  I would far rather see a team of journeymen or youngsters win the game with a disciplined shape, sound teamwork and good technique than a few brilliant stars wondering around in an ugly dance all over the park, putting in the odd glorious flick, the odd beautiful goal – all the while losing us the game.
Nogood "there's funny how the weaknesses outweigh the strengths in your SWOT analysis, isit" Boyo

Thank you for voicing my opinion so I don't have too :)

[The Old Count]

Jol's principal strength?
To pick good players and persuade them to be part of his squad.  Ruiz, Berbatov, Bent, Riether, Parker.
His negatives?
He's not a good team manager – he plays to his favourites and ignores his foot soldiers. 
He is not a good man manager of his coaching staff. They are not good organisers.  Their team lacks discipline, shape and balance.
He does not know how to bring out the best in the talented youth he has available.  He plays them, He drops them.  He plays them. He drops them.  He damns them with faint praise.  On occasion he even criticizes them in public - a massive management fault in any field.
He manages through the press (those criticisms again).  Once again, in any business, that is very, very poor form.
Hence and sadly, my conclusion is that he is not a good choice for Fulham Football Club.
In response to Grandad's question as to who should we pick?  We're not the professionals.  We don't have the networks, the staff.  We rely on the press and messageboards for our opinions.  But, I'll wager a Welshmans's wellies that there are many out there who could do a better job.  As mentioned higher up, Laudrup, diMatteo, Steve Clark and good old Sir Roy Hodgson all came out of the blue at one time or other to surprise and delight their clubs' supporters. 
As Sir Roy showed, it's all about picking players who can play together as opposed to persuading supertarts to come on board and be big fish in little ponds.  I would far rather see a team of journeymen or youngsters win the game with a disciplined shape, sound teamwork and good technique than a few brilliant stars wondering around in an ugly dance all over the park, putting in the odd glorious flick, the odd beautiful goal – all the while losing us the game.
Nogood "there's funny how the weaknesses outweigh the strengths in your SWOT analysis, isit" Boyo

Thank you for voicing my opinion so I don't have too :)

Can't argue with that.

It's what I said when we were considering employing him.

We could do much better.

I stil think we should give him one last cance though......Chritmas will tell

[GW02]

New member here so first of all would like to say Hello to everyone, have been watching the forum for a while now and thought was about time I stopped just getting frustrated to myself.

Firstly I would like to say that talking about sacking a manager two league games and one cup game into a season with the transfer window closing in less than a week seems a bit ridiculous. Surely he has to either go in the summer or be given time to implement his new players into his system. I personally think Jol is under pressure to perform over the next few months or else he should be given the boot.

However I would stick up for Jol by saying this is the guy who got the best out of Dembele, one of the best players I have seen in a Fulham poo in over 20 years of being a fan. He was hugely influential in bringing Berbatov to the club, same statement as above applies there. Riether is also the best right back I have seen in a Fulham shirt. His ability to attract these sort of players and now hopefully the likes of Taarabt, Parker etc. has got to earn him some credit and definitely helped us last year stabilise in what could have been a disastrous year (insert the overplayed out Dembele Dempsey excuse here).

Now I think we need to get behind him over the next few months, if he can get this team to gel we are in for a great year, if he can't then sadly I think it is time for Jol to move on. It really is make or break now

[Arthur]

Certainly, he's a man with no plan B.

The accusation was that Jol has no plan B. In order to refute this, it is not necessary to consider whether he deploys that plan at the most appropriate moment; it is enough simply to show that he does have a plan B.

We didn't change the way we played. Not so much a change of tactics as a change of player.

We did change the way we played: we played two forwards instead of one. Jol substituted a deep-lying midfielder (Karagounis) for a striker (Rodallega) with the intention of achieving something (increasing the likelihood of our scoring a goal).

This is tactical. (Easy to see, but a change of tactics nonetheless.)

An earlier tactical move that, to my knowledge, has not been mentioned took place at the beginning of extra time. Kasami, who had replaced Dejagah moments before Burton's equaliser, was moved from the right-sided berth he had initially occupied to the centre of midfield and Riether was pushed further upfield (albeit not as far forward as Dejagah). It was a change that came close to yielding a goal minutes later when Riether arrived in the heart of the penalty area to strike a shot against a post. (Subsequently, with the introduction of Rodallega, Riether reverted to his typical right-back's role.)

Along with everyone else, I had hoped for more encouraging performances than we have thus far produced. Nevertheless, I do feel that criticism needs to be both accurate and fair. Rhetoric is easy; making a case that stands up to scrutiny, less so.

[ash]

All of this Jol out malarky is bulls***. No other manager will be able to do a better job than he is at the moment. It's obvious to everybody that we are a new team and that we are going through a period of transition. Give him time and we will reap the rewards in the long run. MARTIN JOLS BLAWIARMY!