Jol: Merged

[Lighthouse]

This isn't rocket science. We were playing a second division side. We needed to attack them. We decided to play them with one forward. Fact remains that Jol can change tactics but even with us playing a second divison team who defended for 70 minutes. Jol was unable to work out that a better option may have been to throw on an attacking option.

So fine let us say Jol is a master tactician. Sadly though we still don't want to put pressure on IN the area even against a second division side who set out to defend. THAT has been our problem from day one under Jol.

He waited until 7 minutes until the end of extra time. A simple change in the set up of the team from kick off would have solved a lot of problems.

Pushing Reither up as a winger when Burton were already throwing players up wide, where their goals sprung from seems equally odd to me.

[ron]

All of this Jol out malarky is bulls***. No other manager will be able to do a better job than he is at the moment. It's obvious to everybody that we are a new team and that we are going through a period of transition. Give him time and we will reap the rewards in the long run. MARTIN JOLS BLAWIARMY!

Any organisation has a throughput of staff, which would be considered as normal attrition. In football, age is a factor which sets this process at quite a high level.

We have been in transition since I started seeing Fulham's fortunes as part of my life. Perhaps it's the manager's job to make the continuous process as seamless as possible in order to reap the golden harvest you predict?

[Bassey the warrior]

Certainly, he's a man with no plan B.

The accusation was that Jol has no plan B. In order to refute this, it is not necessary to consider whether he deploys that plan at the most appropriate moment; it is enough simply to show that he does have a plan B.

We didn't change the way we played. Not so much a change of tactics as a change of player.

We did change the way we played: we played two forwards instead of one. Jol substituted a deep-lying midfielder (Karagounis) for a striker (Rodallega) with the intention of achieving something (increasing the likelihood of our scoring a goal).

This is tactical. (Easy to see, but a change of tactics nonetheless.)

An earlier tactical move that, to my knowledge, has not been mentioned took place at the beginning of extra time. Kasami, who had replaced Dejagah moments before Burton's equaliser, was moved from the right-sided berth he had initially occupied to the centre of midfield and Riether was pushed further upfield (albeit not as far forward as Dejagah). It was a change that came close to yielding a goal minutes later when Riether arrived in the heart of the penalty area to strike a shot against a post. (Subsequently, with the introduction of Rodallega, Riether reverted to his typical right-back's role.)

Along with everyone else, I had hoped for more encouraging performances than we have thus far produced. Nevertheless, I do feel that criticism needs to be both accurate and fair. Rhetoric is easy; making a case that stands up to scrutiny, less so.

So his plan was to wait until extra time and then to bring on another striker? Is this what you call a plan B?
This is what I call desperation.  What would be the logic in waiting to make such a change? The only thing that comes to mind is the hope that the Burton players would've run out energy by that point, but as it happens they were largely spent before the end of the 90 minutes. He should've made the change much much earlier.

[Bassey the warrior]

I want this to work out, really really do.

[Arthur]

So his plan was to wait until extra time and then to bring on another striker? Is this what you call a plan B?
This is what I call desperation.  What would be the logic in waiting to make such a change? The only thing that comes to mind is the hope that the Burton players would've run out energy by that point, but as it happens they were largely spent before the end of the 90 minutes. He should've made the change much much earlier.

To me, a 'plan B' is action taken to achieve something when the preferred method fails. So, yes, bringing on another striker to help us score a goal does constitute a plan B.

You call this desperation. You question the logic of such a move. What you don't do is define what you perceive as a 'plan B'.

From my definition, there is nothing to say that a plan B cannot also be a desperate plan and/or an illogical plan (although, needing a goal to avoid elimination, the logic in bringing on an extra striker is obvious).

Whether this particular substitution should have been made sooner is another matter. The indubitable facts of this matter are that a change was made and we scored a goal. At the top of this thread, you described Jol as certainly having no plan B. It is the veracity of this claim that I dispute - nothing more.

[Roberty]

This is such an exciting topic - I don't think I have read any of this before - ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[WORTHINGFULHAM]

All this JOL out talk is doing my head in, and i feel alot of you who want him out for whatever reason are spoilt by the fact you havnt all been supporting the team for any real length of time.
Who after 3 games would replace the manager? only a club with no stability and a panicy chairman and boardroom.
Who would we get to replace him? who would be as good or better who is available?
Jol has bought in some terrific signings with out spending cash he hasnt got and his reputation has helped to bring them to the club.
Ok so we wobbelled against burton albion, whats new under any manager we have had in the last 20-30 years, nothing, we always struggle against smaller teams and we over the years not just under JOL have been awful away from home.
JOL did nothing wrong in putting out a strong team, but for burton it was there cup final and had a record of upsetting bigger clubs, which they almost did.
JOL isnt perfect and will learn as he goes making him stronger, other than Tigana he is the best manager we have had in many a year. Hodgeson did well but took us as far as he could and i still feel JOL is overall a better manager that has built his own team.
Those of you who havnt been supporting us for that long dont get carried away that we are something we are not, we are growing but dont expect us to perform or challange for europe it should be a target but not a given. A good start at sunderland, followed by an expected Arsenal win, again with our track record away from home, dont expect a win at Newcastle, a draw would be a good result , a win fantstic!!!
I want Fulham to succeed as much as the next person and stability in a manager is crucial
or we are always building a new team and starting out fresh again, lets get behind JOL and the team and support us through thick and thin.
COYW

[nose]

All this JOL out talk is doing my head in, and i feel alot of you who want him out for whatever reason are spoilt by the fact you havnt all been supporting the team for any real length of time.
Who after 3 games would replace the manager? only a club with no stability and a panicy chairman and boardroom.
Who would we get to replace him? who would be as good or better who is available?
Jol has bought in some terrific signings with out spending cash he hasnt got and his reputation has helped to bring them to the club.
Ok so we wobbelled against burton albion, whats new under any manager we have had in the last 20-30 years, nothing, we always struggle against smaller teams and we over the years not just under JOL have been awful away from home.
JOL did nothing wrong in putting out a strong team, but for burton it was there cup final and had a record of upsetting bigger clubs, which they almost did.
JOL isnt perfect and will learn as he goes making him stronger, other than Tigana he is the best manager we have had in many a year. Hodgeson did well but took us as far as he could and i still feel JOL is overall a better manager that has built his own team.
Those of you who havnt been supporting us for that long dont get carried away that we are something we are not, we are growing but dont expect us to perform or challange for europe it should be a target but not a given. A good start at sunderland, followed by an expected Arsenal win, again with our track record away from home, dont expect a win at Newcastle, a draw would be a good result , a win fantstic!!!
I want Fulham to succeed as much as the next person and stability in a manager is crucial
or we are always building a new team and starting out fresh again, lets get behind JOL and the team and support us through thick and thin.
COYW

I havemn't actually said I want jol out but if were chairman i would replace him and actually I have been a season ticket holder for 50+ years. I suspect most anti Jol people are the long term inmates like me. We have seen it all before and recognise  underachievemt when we see it very quickly.

Ask your self this, does Jol get the best from the squad? Are we better than when he took over?
IMO the answer to both is no and in fact I think we are going backwards, he promised a younger more pacey squad, we have an older more pedestrian squad.

[cottage cheese]

The football under Jol from the start has been dire,boring and I have not actually renewed my season ticket this year as I stopped going to home games last year due to not actually enjoying watching Fulham anymore.  I just got fed up of wasting Saturdays watching boring football with a team who clearly had no idea of what to do at times.

I have seen nothing from this season that anything has changed. I don't think we will go down but until Jol goes or we sign some decent creative midfielders then I can only see the same this season. The only glimmer of hope is that Ive always been impressed with Tarrabt and he will be a key player for us this season I feel. He is unpredictable which is a characteristic none of our players have had for a while. The argument that he shoots from 30yrds is beyond me as quite frankly I would rather see someone have a go then watch us dribble a ball round, pass to berbs and then lose it due to no one being in front of him.

[WORTHINGFULHAM]

All this JOL out talk is doing my head in, and i feel alot of you who want him out for whatever reason are spoilt by the fact you havnt all been supporting the team for any real length of time.
Who after 3 games would replace the manager? only a club with no stability and a panicy chairman and boardroom.
Who would we get to replace him? who would be as good or better who is available?
Jol has bought in some terrific signings with out spending cash he hasnt got and his reputation has helped to bring them to the club.
Ok so we wobbelled against burton albion, whats new under any manager we have had in the last 20-30 years, nothing, we always struggle against smaller teams and we over the years not just under JOL have been awful away from home.
JOL did nothing wrong in putting out a strong team, but for burton it was there cup final and had a record of upsetting bigger clubs, which they almost did.
JOL isnt perfect and will learn as he goes making him stronger, other than Tigana he is the best manager we have had in many a year. Hodgeson did well but took us as far as he could and i still feel JOL is overall a better manager that has built his own team.
Those of you who havnt been supporting us for that long dont get carried away that we are something we are not, we are growing but dont expect us to perform or challange for europe it should be a target but not a given. A good start at sunderland, followed by an expected Arsenal win, again with our track record away from home, dont expect a win at Newcastle, a draw would be a good result , a win fantstic!!!
I want Fulham to succeed as much as the next person and stability in a manager is crucial
or we are always building a new team and starting out fresh again, lets get behind JOL and the team and support us through thick and thin.
COYW

I havemn't actually said I want jol out but if were chairman i would replace him and actually I have been a season ticket holder for 50+ years. I suspect most anti Jol people are the long term inmates like me. We have seen it all before and recognise  underachievemt when we see it very quickly.

Ask your self this, does Jol get the best from the squad? Are we better than when he took over?
IMO the answer to both is no and in fact I think we are going backwards, he promised a younger more pacey squad, we have an older more pedestrian squad.

Yes but he has no money to bring in the younger players, if he did he would spend out on youth, but he has said there is no money to spend and the youngsters cost more money, hence why kasami, briggs, kaka, etc are starting to be introduced.
I thought the new chairman would put his hand in his pocket but so far he hasnt so JOL has had to make do.
I like you, have been a long term supporter, 30 years for me 20 of them season ticket holder, and i have seen some real nails at this club like you.
I just want stability,too much change and will end end up like jokeshop QPR

[RaySmith]

The football under Jol from the start has been dire,boring and I have not actually renewed my season ticket this year as I stopped going to home games last year due to not actually enjoying watching Fulham anymore.  I just got fed up of wasting Saturdays watching boring football with a team who clearly had no idea of what to do at times.

I have seen nothing from this season that anything has changed. I don't think we will go down but until Jol goes or we sign some decent creative midfielders then I can only see the same this season. The only glimmer of hope is that Ive always been impressed with Tarrabt and he will be a key player for us this season I feel. He is unpredictable which is a characteristic none of our players have had for a while. The argument that he shoots from 30yrds is beyond me as quite frankly I would rather see someone have a go then watch us dribble a ball round, pass to berbs and then lose it due to no one being in front of him.

I assume you  didn't watch Fulham when we were in the Third Division.

I never find it boring watching Fulham, because the result is always very important to me - so it's always dramatic, since our victory  is never a formality.

Every game is very important and highly competitive, played by elite  pros, in the beautiful setting of Craven Cottage, so how you find it boring is alien to me

[BillNRoc]

It's not just three games into a season, we've been watching FFC decline through all last season. As I wrote elsewhere, Arsenal kicked our butts because they have better players who play as a team, while FFC seem like a collection of other teams' discards who lack either the ability or the willingness -- or the direction -- to play consistently good football (or good football consistently, which may not be the same thing). Berbatov, Ruiz, Taarabt may be great talents, but you'd hardly know they put on the same kit as each other. Way too often, Jol's Fulham is awful to watch...and what's Tony Pulis doing these days? [Please don't take this as indication I want TP to replace MJ, that's not the point.]

Sacking the manager is the easiest "big step" for a team to take when it's going bad, and FFC this season look like the same sorry lot who had two long spells of "going bad" last season. Let's get on with it.

[RaySmith]

We declined so much that we finished 12th....and how does this compare with all our other Prem finishes?

Oh, I forgot, we've usually been challenging for  the top six, and going on cup runs.

[the nutflush]

We declined so much that we finished 12th....and how does this compare with all our other Prem finishes?

Oh, I forgot, we've usually been challenging for  the top six, and going on cup runs.

Can you honestly say you enjoyed last season?  Really?

[Roberty]

I think you need to be careful what you wish for.
The last manager who was sacked was replaced by Laurie Sanchez
Was that a wonderful idea?

[Roberty]

We declined so much that we finished 12th....and how does this compare with all our other Prem finishes?

Oh, I forgot, we've usually been challenging for  the top six, and going on cup runs.

It is a lot better than having to sit behind the goal at Portsmouth and wait for 79 minutes to see Danny Murphy "rise like a salmon" to head the ball into the net.

According to Roy he was not supposed to be there so it was a surprise for him too.

[cottage cheese]

The football under Jol from the start has been dire,boring and I have not actually renewed my season ticket this year as I stopped going to home games last year due to not actually enjoying watching Fulham anymore.  I just got fed up of wasting Saturdays watching boring football with a team who clearly had no idea of what to do at times.

I have seen nothing from this season that anything has changed. I don't think we will go down but until Jol goes or we sign some decent creative midfielders then I can only see the same this season. The only glimmer of hope is that Ive always been impressed with Tarrabt and he will be a key player for us this season I feel. He is unpredictable which is a characteristic none of our players have had for a while. The argument that he shoots from 30yrds is beyond me as quite frankly I would rather see someone have a go then watch us dribble a ball round, pass to berbs and then lose it due to no one being in front of him.

I assume you  didn't watch Fulham when we were in the Third Division.

I never find it boring watching Fulham, because the result is always very important to me - so it's always dramatic, since our victory  is never a formality.

Every game is very important and highly competitive, played by elite  pros, in the beautiful setting of Craven Cottage, so how you find it boring is alien to me

The beautiful setting of Craven cottage is the only thing I would agree with you.  We haven't seen any drama at the cottage for a long long long time (maybe the qpr game 3-2) thats about it.

We are a boring team to watch and you are deluded otherwise. Last season I think we mustered about 2-3 shots on target every game pretty much...exciting stuff isn't it? Sunderland this season we had 1 shot etc.....case closed

Ive been going to the cottage since I was 7 years old and 18 years later its just turned to a farce under Jol.

[Roberty]

We declined so much that we finished 12th....and how does this compare with all our other Prem finishes?

Oh, I forgot, we've usually been challenging for  the top six, and going on cup runs.

Can you honestly say you enjoyed last season?  Really?

Yes - I went to see us beat spuds at the lane - on the way back to the car we were congratulated by lots of arsenal supporters - it was a wonderful moment.

I think that your problem is that you only support us when we are winning.

Some of us support Fulham - win or loose

[the nutflush]

I watch every game live from my couch in Melbourne.  I could count the number of games I thought we played well in last season on one hand.

[Roberty]

I watch every game live from my couch in Melbourne.  I could count the number of games I thought we played well in last season on one hand.

What were you doing with the other?